Tournament Play

[soul taker]

DB

While not officially sponsored by Wizkids (since they don't have the old judges program like they used to) I was my local stores official TO for Heroclix events for over 3 years. I am currently the stores official TO for all Star Trek Attack Wing events. Don't know if that's the official you wanted or not. I have also run numerous club sponsored events. Heroclix and STAW LE prize support and the players it brings out is what has turned me off of that prize format. I've seen to many players that just hit up each venue they can in a given month to try and prize shark every thing from the stores local players. Then they go sell off the prizes on eBay to pay for there game while bragging about how they trounced an 10 year old kid in a game about super heroes. Those people also tend to not buy any thing from the store they are playing at beyond an entry fee. Now for club run events I've normally used a small entry fee and gave out gift certificates to the store that we were play at, and a t-shirt transfer for the winner. Those games are normally more about fun and the players just having a good time playing a game. The types of prizes definitely influence the type of players you get and the attitudes of those involved.

[7eat51]

Steve, I like your ideas. They can be incorporated into given strategically oriented scenarios, or there can be a list of objectives each player needs to achieve individually - similar to the card game Phase 10. Another possibility is that there are two sides engaged in battle, but that individual ship captains have additional orders/objectives which would be randomly drawn and kept secret. Points could be awarded to players who assist others in achieving the others' goals.

I think a key item is to ensure each gathering feels a bit different in terms of game play. I think an every-other month gathering with different set ups and objectives would would be enjoyable. I am going to lay out something like below, and start filling it in with details. This would give a whole year's worth of playing. When completed, I will upload this in an Excel sheet in case anyone wants to look at it.

Date	Description	Set Up	Ships Used	Objectives
15 Jan
15 Mar

[Popsical]

Its such a shame players cant control their WAAC tendencies or resist going to tournaments for friendly play.
Ive never seen the appeal of turning up to a game filled with friendly players, just to bring out the beat stick and flog them mercilessly.
It must fill a hole in their lives i suppose.

Ive got some old score sheets floating around that i will dig out for suggestions soon.

[Gunner]

bring out the beat stick and flog them mercilessly.

And the beatings will continue until morale improves.

[Coog]

Its such a shame players cant control their WAAC tendencies or resist going to tournaments for friendly play.
Ive never seen the appeal of turning up to a game filled with friendly players, just to bring out the beat stick and flog them mercilessly.
It must fill a hole in their lives i suppose.

It's the Conan syndrome:

Mongol General: Conan! What is best in life?
Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.
Mongol General: That is good! That is good.

[Diamondback]

This was why I personally believed "Everybody Gets One" participation prizes were the way to go, maybe recognize winners with an outside-the-game item like a trophy or a statue or their name on a plaque mounted on the shop wall.

To use Wizkids Pirates as an example and admittedly flog on a dead horse... when I joined the Organized Play program as a player and it was "participation prizes all around", even though all we got was cardboard crew-cards that we had to use with crew-pieces from our own collections at that point (the set in print was Barbary Coast), my LGS's Pirates league was a very friendly, laid-back, FUN place to play. And that's what it was about, "PLAY a game". Soon thereafter, a Level 3 envoy who I was doing some R&D work for on a proposal he was developing to adapt the Pirates game engine and pocket-model concept to historical battles offered to sponsor me to become a GM myself. Then some folks recognized how cheesy the cardboard crew were compared to the ships-and-crew prizes of old, and somehow found someone sympathetic higher in WK's food chain, so the next set (South China Seas) had one-card ships for participation prizes. Tiny little things like Bermuda sloops, Korean turtle-ships or small galleys--this was the high-water mark, and life was good.

Then somebody at WK decided they weren't SELLING enough of what they were producing, and rather than admit they were OVERPRINTING, along with not liking the cost of printing so many LE's to just hand out, they moved to a model of "three prize cards per factory case--want more prize support, order and sell more cases" with the Davy Jones's Curse set--which between the reintroduction of MechWarrior Style Cutthroat Tourney Play and the just plain ludicrousness, brokenness and CHEESE of some elements in that set... that was the beginning of the end, but like a good soldier I sailed on through a couple more sets, the game getting more hypercompetitive and less fun with every release. AND THEN I was put into a situation where I was forced into retirement as a GM because of not having access to the Organized Play event-management system (it was a "one envoy per venue is lead and schedules everything for everybody" setup) and make my events quota before being flagged as "inactive"... and that's where I walked away--from there the only reason I was still buying packs and cases was because my mother was a collector addicted to "the chase".

Yes, it's still a sore subject--I'm sorry, but some people are just slow healers, and some particular types of wounds are slow to heal, and that combination is admittedly at work with me.

[Nightmoss]

So, having read all the comments (and experienced some of the downsides of tourney play personally) if I ever set up or run a 'tournament' in future the winner will received a plastic trophy and all the other participants will get some form of prize equally distributed. I'd probably also consider a 'good sportsman' award as well, and maybe a last place prize too? Note that this is all beyond the participation ship or card or something everyone gets for entering the tournament in the first place.

Chances of my running a tournament in the near future are pretty slim.

[Diamondback]

Oh, by the way, there were a lot of times as a GM when I GAVE UP the prize support that I was entitled to for my services to try to make a little more available to recognize player accomplishments. (At three to go around a whole event, didn't do much good, but it was more than MOST GM's I knew.)

I'm with you, Jim, but I personally favor the "plaque" method along with the trophy--something that tells the person "you have done great deeds worthy of remembering and this little group will honor them as long as we game together."

Yet another reason I'm hoping to con Ares into hiring me... I'm kind of hoping that if they can be talked into an official OP program for WGF, WGS and SGN, that I'd have it added to my portfolio of responsibilities so I could try to steer it down a better path than previous OP programs.

[Nightmoss]

Oh, by the way, there were a lot of times as a GM when I GAVE UP the prize support that I was entitled to for my services to try to make a little more available to recognize player accomplishments. (At three to go around a whole event, didn't do much good, but it was more than MOST GM's I knew.)

I'm with you, Jim, but I personally favor the "plaque" method along with the trophy--something that tells the person "you have done great deeds worthy of remembering and this little group will honor them as long as we game together."

Yet another reason I'm hoping to con Ares into hiring me... I'm kind of hoping that if they can be talked into an official OP program for WGF, WGS and SGN, that I'd have it added to my portfolio of responsibilities so I could try to steer it down a better path than previous OP programs.

Plaques are good and many places locally that can make them on the cheap, along with the trophies, etc.

[Popsical]

My preferred scoring system would be:

Win 2pts
Draw 1pt
Loss 0 pts
Sportsmanship per game 0-2 plus reason
Achievements 1 pt per target achieved at end of tournament

This way you can win every game acting like a dousche bag and still mid table finish.
The reason for sporting points must be good, to stop team voting.

[soul taker]

The problem with any sportsman ship award is if the players have a say in it, it will always turn into a popularity contest. When I was running Heroclix events I turned the fellowship award (sportsmanship) into the top kid award. We had a lot of kids that played at our venue and they didn't stand a chance of winning against the power gamers. Trophy's and plaques or the name up on the wall are the way to go. There is no resale value on them so it cuts down on some of the cut throat players. One of the best things about Halloween not being to far away is you can find some interesting things to make into trophy's.

[Nightmoss]

The problem with any sportsman ship award is if the players have a say in it, it will always turn into a popularity contest. When I was running Heroclix events I turned the fellowship award (sportsmanship) into the top kid award. We had a lot of kids that played at our venue and they didn't stand a chance of winning against the power gamers. Trophy's and plaques or the name up on the wall are the way to go. There is no resale value on them so it cuts down on some of the cut throat players. One of the best things about Halloween not being to far away is you can find some interesting things to make into trophy's.

Just for clarification I wouldn't allow the sportsman award to be player driven. That would be my call. Cheers.

[RotS-Targe]

First off, I don't have much experience with tournaments, I tried to go to a Pirates one, but the GM wasn't there, so I ended up with an entire stack of the prizes, was pretty cool to have, but would have preferred to actually being able to play... (judging by what I've read, this was the China Seas expansion, with the small ships, no clue what happened to them, so can't check anyways)
What I do play is MechWarrior, and I still play it. I remember when the game was still going, lots of people, but I never really paid much attention to the prizes, and I fully admit I sucked at the game, so I knew they were out of my reach, never paid them much mind because of it. Now that MWDA is dead (officially) I'm lucky enough to still have people to play. No official support means our numbers are smaller, but it's much more relaxed. No longer are we focused on the game, but instead we talk about mechwarrior in general, life, everything. I think that the game is much more fun when there is not much incentive to win, like a first prize.
I really like having a participation prize, because it gives the newer players something they can take home and can really soften the blow of a pummeling at your first game.
A couple ideas I read I liked, a point system for win/loss/tie plus some extras for sportsmanship and such, though I would suggest giving a point for a loss, even if it means upping the points for a win/tie, because nothing hurts more than getting a zero.
Adding a sheet of points you can get for extras is nice, give something to work towards other than winning (I especially loved the one for winning by ramming, that one made me laugh and I know that getting that one will make anyone's night).
having gift cards for the place you're at is a nice thought, give back to the place kind enough to host you.

[Popsical]

Points can be awarded by the GM for list building too..
Do this in secret whilst touring the games. Use these points for deciding who finshes where in the case of equal points.
They can also be used if it means a player who has been a total munchkin gets relegated to 2nd from 1st etc.


2 pts for an unusual or weaker (theoretically) list.
1 pt for nicely modified or painted ships.
-1pt for choosing the best ship/s and just kerb stomping folk.

These points are purely at the GMs discretion and a guide should be given to players prior to the event.
This can mitigate munchkins attendance as they know over competitiveness will penalise them.

[Diamondback]

The problem with discretion is, not all GM's are totally On the Level... some will interpret things to the benefit of their buddies.

Re Sportsmanship awards, subject to the Attitude Test I always had two things I gave preference to--first-session rookies first, then if none of those somebody who got totally curbstomped into the pavement.

[Nightmoss]

The problem with discretion is, not all GM's are totally On the Level... some will interpret things to the benefit of their buddies.

Re Sportsmanship awards, subject to the Attitude Test I always had two things I gave preference to--first-session rookies first, then if none of those somebody who got totally curbstomped into the pavement.

I'm pretty sure one of our local Wizkids reps was booted when questions involving his favoritism of friends and some investigations occurred involving tourney prizes that didn't arrive from Wizkids at the FLGS. So yes, some GM's aren't going to be on the level.

[7eat51]

I am seeing a similar tendency we have in teaching, i.e. to set up something to mitigate the worst as opposed to encourage the best. In teaching, it is setting up the course to ensure no cheating, that folks toward the bottom end of the scale do not get better grades than they deserve, etc. Unfortunately, in the process, the best students are demotivated by a course which is mechanically boring, and the middle-range students have nothing worthwhile to shoot for. When I made the switch to creating courses geared toward the better students, they excelled, the mid-ranged students ramped up their efforts and engagement significantly, and those that did not care probably ended up with better grades than they deserved, but the class as a whole improved along with my enjoyment in teaching. I want to approach tournament play with the same attitude - one focused on encouraging fun and engagement, and if a jerk enters play, I will simply say thank you for your time, here's your refund, and don't let the door hit you on the way out. I don't want the focus of my time going into a tournament to be focused on jerks.

[Diamondback]

This is also part of why I'd like an official OP mechanism with player registration like WK had--that way you don't necessarily need to visibly tailor rules, but the GM community can add notes about Munchkinry or personailty issues (or even positive attributes) to players' accounts and when they register for an event the GM may accept or decline the request.

[stuh42asl]

I prefer the solid scenarios, I have plyed in some tournaments , but the attitudes I have gotten soured me to that concept. I like the big hard core scenarios where a small group get together. History is a passion of mine, therefore the bigger the better. I can't stand the I will bring my 300pts and you bring your 300 pts and smash each other. I like older players where tactics and strategy come into play scenarios like Trafalgar, Nile etc interest me the most.

Shane