God I hope not, we don't need two of them!!Originally Posted by Gunner
God I hope not, we don't need two of them!!
*Palpatine cackle* Oh heck no... I fight a LOT dirtier once somebody lights me off.
Three quotes that are my guiding philosophy on life:
"Don't confuse patience with weakness."
"Beware the fury of a patient man."
"The truth told with ill intent beats all the lies a man can invent."
Though Chris and I do part ways on that last one: "Never leave a man behind."
Well, the similarity of avatars should suggest the latter.... ;)
Keith, the idea of the laser is great, especially for making trays to order.
I look forward to the other creations you mentioned, e.g. forts.
Yes, being able to produce a single tray to match a customers collection again will be really nice. Of course, it will take me a little while to get up to speed on manufacturing these myself.
Keith, just noticed this thread now. Based on my experience with the demo kit which we discussed in email, I'd recommend option 3 in the OP.
Eric, what do you think based upon the way I packaged them with extra foam?
Update
Hi Guys,
Have 17 ships that desperately need a good storage/travel solution. any updates on a Foam case? Any other suggestions?
Thanks, Jeff
No word on anything official yet.
I ordered some pluck foam for the interim. Not sure it'll work well yet or not though as I've yet to even be notified on My UPS that my ships have even sailed and I'm in the 4-5 day delivery window after that.
Curtis, what size pluck foam did you order for the ships, 3"?No word on anything official yet.
I ordered some pluck foam for the interim. Not sure it'll work well yet or not though as I've yet to even be notified on My UPS that my ships have even sailed and I'm in the 4-5 day delivery window after that.
Affirmative. Two 3" trays. Which is part of why I'm not sure how they'll work. In my haste to get the demo kit ships off to the next venue, I totally forgot to measure the biggest ships. I think height-wise theyll be fine, but the 3" trays I got have 1" pluck pieces, which might be too thick if they're more than 1" thick, as I'm sure they aren't close to 3" thick. I'm hoping the sails are just under 2" wide. That'd be perfect. I plan on storing the bases on their sides or in another tray entirely. It'll depend on how the pluck foam shapes out and what's left over.
My other issue is my lovely wife got me a ton of Dust models for Christmas and holding out for my SoG ships to use the foam for is driving me nuts.
Curtis, the BLU Pluck and Sabol foam trays have 1/2" plucks.
Yes they do, and I've been very happy with the BLU stuff I've used in the past. However, my FLGS only carries Battlefoam now, and I actually ordered mine during their 25% off Black Friday sale. Plus, I got the limited edition blue 720 bag. I thought a blue bag for my sailing vessels highly appropriate. While I can fit two BLU trays in the 720 turned sideways, it's not a perfect fit - almost too snug front-to-back, 1-inch left over space side-to-side. It's what I'll do if the BF foam is not going to fit right.
For others who haven't invested yet in a bag, I'd highly recommend one that fits the BLU foam, as it's much softer and more flexible than the others, and will probably be better for the sails of our little fleets. The bases are firm though, so there is very little twist in the trays when models are in them. Definitely my favorite foam, just not my favorite bags. BF bags, while pricey, are very, very stout.
any links or pics for all this stuff?
Its like a foreign language to this long time boardgamer but new mini guy.
:-)
The BLU foam is nice... but nothing compared to the new foam I will be using
If I ever get my rank back, I'll order some.The BLU foam is nice... but nothing compared to the new foam I will be using
Which is...?The BLU foam is nice... but nothing compared to the new foam I will be using
Official foam coming out? K/R Multicase and Ares continuing the love? I'd buy it if they do! I use K/R for my Dropzone Commander stuff and love it!
@ jnewell68...
Battlefoam - http://us.battlefoam.com/
K/R Multicase - http://www.krmulticase.com/
Portable Warfare (Blü Foam) - http://www.portablewarfare.com/products/
Sabol Designs - http://www.saboldesigns.net/home.html
Welcome to the miniatures gaming addiction!
After you've plucked the foam for whatever your custom desired shape is...do you guys reinforce the remaining foam "ribs" that are left with something so it's pluck nature doesn't come back to haunt you by eventually coming apart through continued hands pulling stuff out, bumping, and such?
If the figures are heavy, I use a thin line of elmers glue on the bottom of the unglued ribs.
I'm copying this from my post on the Aerodrome site, so it talks about planes instead of ships. The foam type and details still apply though...
I've spent a lot of time searching for and researching different foam types to use. I've narrowed it down to two main types of foams. These foams are not being used by any of the other miniatures storage companies. These are a higher quality and denser types of foam and will allow for some very unique and useful options to the trays.
My old style foam (and the foam used by "the other guys") looks like this:
As you can see, with just a little pressure you can easily compress the foam. This type of foam gives good protection to your minis from bouncing around in the cutouts, but offers little protection to the top layers of minis if something, or someone, should fall on top of them.
One of the new types of foam I'm testing is shown below. As you will see in this photo, the same pressure applied to it hardly makes a dent in the foam at all.
This new type of foam has a much smaller "bubble structure" and gives it great strength. These new style trays should not bend when you load them full of planes and pick them up from one end. It also has a much smoother surface, so some of the pointy bits of your minis will be a lot less likely to get stuck in the foam. The other type (see the next 4 photos below) I'm testing has a larger bubble structure, but is chemically completely different. It has a very nice looking textured surface and will offer great protection in every direction. With both of these new foam types, I'll be able to offer some visual combinations...
Entente and Allied trays:
Central Powers and Axis trays:
Having different colors for the base layer will allow us to quickly identify which side's planes are in which trays. Just open up your bag and you can instantly see which trays hold your German planes for example.
The base layer is also of a even more dense foam, again adding to the protection and durability of the trays.
With any of the new foam types I"m looking at, there is another benefit that I'm excited to tell you guys about. And that is that not only can the cavities be cut out with the laser, but I can actually engrave on them too!
That photo does not really do it justice, but the word Plane is engraved right into the foam. It is a very clean engraving and would allow me the option to engrave the name of the plane next to each cavity, or even which types of planes are in that tray. With that last option, you could open your bag and the sides of the trays would tell you which planes were in each one! I can only do this on the long side of the trays as the laser I'm getting is not deep enough to engrave on the short end of the trays (they are 13 inches long that way).
Doing all of this in house will also allow me to offer custom layouts for those of you that collect your ships in numbers other than one of each Wave.
Keith, have you tried a test for vertical and horizontal ships?
I'm waiting for my ships to arrive to see if they are strong enough to be stored on its side (my preference) without damage to added rigging.
I have a piece of that last foam you're showing in my garage. That is some amazing stuff. Eeeh, I threw one piece away because the wife was wanting to clear garage space. I saved the other to cut up for some Flames of War terrain. That is some durable tough foam. It has a soft surface. It will compress a little bit easily, but will not compress a large amount easily.
Battlefoam's newer foam, especially the precut stuff, appears to be exactly like that.
However, their newer pluck stuff is about half way between the two you show.
So, Keith, I've been a bit busy of late (the days leading up to the holidays are very busy for our Marshal's office - lots of people make poor choices) and probably missed your plans going forward here...
Will you be offering precut foam trays for sale? Would you be able to do different sizes than the standard Sabol size? If so, I'd love to email you my request.
Are there supposed to be pictures of foam in Keith's post because I cant see them...
Yes, pictures four posts above yours. I see them all just fine.
I really like what you're working on, Keith.
I think vertical is going to be the best bet for rigged ships. Storing them on their sides with out the bases attached has them flopping around quite a bit. Storing them on their side with the base attached puts a little to much pressure on the mast than I am comfortable with. Your mileage may very of course.
When did they switch to new foam. The latest I've seen is still the standard foam. I also did not see anything on their site showing this same kind of foam (but I did not dig really deep either).
A few months back. Maybe several actually. It started with their Privateer Press line and their Flames of War stuff. I've got older, much softer foam with my initial bgs of both of those. The newer foam is much stouter. They've also started reinforcing their bag handles, as some of the Privateer Press models are serious hunks of metal, and there were some accidents. It may not be quite as hard as what you've got there, but it sure appears similar from the photos you've shared.
Forgot to add...
You still haven't answered my questions, which of course depending on the answers could make all of this a moot point.
I'd really like to know if you are making custom foam for sale, as my FLGS is making another order in a week or so. I'm hoping I'll have my ships before then and an answer from you, so know if I need to order something different from him or from you.
Last edited by Cool Breeze; 12-27-2013 at 10:01. Reason: Added stuff, then edited stuff for grammar
I think Keith is spot on with this.
Interesting, I'll have to see about getting one of those new trays to check it out.
It depends on what you mean by custom. I will be able to cut any shape/size of cavity for the mini to fit into, but I'm limited to 12x24 inches for the overall tray size. Anything with an overall tray size larger than 7.5x13 inches (Sabol , Army Transport, BLU Foam, etc.) will require a "special custom order". lol I'm having blanks make for my trays that are already cut to size and I just laser the cavities and assemble them.
I'll take it a step further and recommend storing the bases separately, or make sure your foam is the exact height of the masts of the ships on their bases, as I've seen what happens when the base gets jostled off. It isn't pretty.
Keith, are you going to call the "Port packs or Port trays"?
But leave a little room for those who will add flags. (Do you have a headache yet)?
I don't think that will be possible since over time the ships will have different heights. Besides, I don't think what you saw will be an issue when carrying your own minis, just those times you hire the Post Office to carry them for you. lol That issue was also caused by me using whatever sized pluck foam I had on hand at the moment. With a cavity sized correctly, I don't think you will see much shifting around of the base.
I am thinking of some type of "stopper" insert that could be placed in there to help secure the base with attached ships down though.
I was thinking "Drydock Trays" actually.
As long as the flags are below the highest point of the mast, there should not be any issues. In the thicker foams, any additional thickness really increases the price... not to mention takes up that much more room in our bag/case.
Another way to throw money at this game? Where do I sign up?!?!
But seriously, I'm happy to know that my ships will find a good home when they aren't busy smashing each other to pieces (figuratively speaking!). I'm looking forward to seeing the final product!
BTW Keith, when will you start taking preorders for the trays?
+1 to this, but I'll be leaning towards the, "special custom" option as I'll want 15.5" x 12" trays. Because this...
Battlefoam P.A.C.K. 720 - Blue
is too pretty not to use.
Short answer, about the 2nd week of Jan.
Long answer...
I picked up my laser last Friday and with all the holiday activities, I've had very little time to play with it. On top of that, the exhaust system I built has some leaks I'm sorting out. Turns out, melted acrylic is kind of stinky! lol The wife is not to happy about that
Hopefully that will be sorted out with my efforts yesterday. If that is the case, I'll start dialing in the settings for my various materials over the next week. The final foam/PSA samples are due to me on the 30th. That puts me cutting prototypes no earlier than about the 2nd. As long as those go good, I'll put them up for pre-order around the weekend of the 4th. There is about a month lead time to get the blanks in and then it's just a matter of cutting and assembling the trays. I think I can cut about 25 trays an hour, but no clue yet how long the PSA will have to "situp" to make a good bond. I'll also get the already pre-ordered Wings of Glory trays out first. Best case I think I might be shipping these trays in March.
Yes, BF does make some nice bags, too bad they over price them though.+1 to this, but I'll be leaning towards the, "special custom" option as I'll want 15.5" x 12" trays. Because this...
Battlefoam P.A.C.K. 720 - Blue
is too pretty not to use.
That's what Black Friday 25% off is for.
True, if you don't think about that is what their normal price should be and that you would have gotten 25% off that price. lol
I'm partial to open top & open front bags as well. Very easy to get the trays.
I miss Keith's bags. Wish I had got a couple more.
Keith I volunteer to test the new packing and box. :)
+1
Me too :( I'd love to produce my own bags, but the startup funds need are really high.
Kickstarter feasible?
Possible, but I'd want to have a couple of finished sample to show and just getting those made would set me back a couple of grand. That's a couple of grand I could not use for minis or my other products. My folks are supposed to move out to Colorado full time next year (they winter in Florida right now) and bring some of their equipment back with them. They have had an upholstery or leather garment manufacturing company for the past 40+ years. If they have time to make the patterns and samples for me, it might become a real possibility at that point.
If I had a bag that would work, I'd actually rather make the Drydock Trays stand up in the bag vertically with the ships loaded in from the side (but still sitting up right on their stands). This would give the absolute best fit for them while pretty much mobilizing them in the tray with nothing touching the ship its self.
That'd be a really cool family project!
Silly Question: Why not have both types -- the latter forming the "top" and "bottom" where added protection is needed; the former in the middle where squishiness is preferred?I've spent a lot of time searching for and researching different foam types to use. I've narrowed it down to two main types of foams. These foams are not being used by any of the other miniatures storage companies. These are a higher quality and denser types of foam and will allow for some very unique and useful options to the trays.
My old style foam (and the foam used by "the other guys") looks like this:
As you can see, with just a little pressure you can easily compress the foam. This type of foam gives good protection to your minis from bouncing around in the cutouts, but offers little protection to the top layers of minis if something, or someone, should fall on top of them.
One of the new types of foam I'm testing is shown below. As you will see in this photo, the same pressure applied to it hardly makes a dent in the foam at all.
This new type of foam has a much smaller "bubble structure" and gives it great strength. These new style trays should not bend when you load them full of planes and pick them up from one end. It also has a much smoother surface, so some of the pointy bits of your minis will be a lot less likely to get stuck in the foam. The other type (see the next 4 photos below) I'm testing has a larger bubble structure, but is chemically completely different. It has a very nice looking textured surface and will offer great protection in every direction. With both of these new foam types, I'll be able to offer some visual combinations...
Material and labor costs, not to mention it would be thicker and take up more room in the bag. That and we really don't want squishiness anyways. So long as the foam is soft enough not to damage the minis when they brush against it, the denser the better really.
Keith on the foam is there a way you could have an inset above the ship to put it's cards?
My initial thought for storing the cards was to keep them in the same cavity, but under the ship and base. But I'll have to double check the height of all of that combined to see if it is going to be too tall for the 3 inch foam. The other thing I forgot to account for since I did not have an actual production ship pack is the ship log that comes with them. I'll have to come up with a good way to store those as well.
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