The assessed VAT will be based on whatever value the shipper puts on the declaration. In the past I've had freebies from companies in the US when I've purchased goods and the value quoted is the value I've paid rather than being revised upwards. Is there a suggestion that these other sellers have been breaking the law by doing so?
Know how much THEIR butts are gonna be in a sling if they get caught lying about it? (Around here, Sales Tax also has to be figured before any discounts get applied...) I know of places who WILL label a purchase a "gift"... but I usually avoid them, on the belief that someone of questionable ethics in one area is almost always so in others. Kinda like if I buy a car out-of-state... even if I pay far less, when I bring it home and register it, I'm assessed a Use Tax based on the Blue Book value or whatever I paid for it whichever is more--and when I have a gun shipped to a dealer for me from out-of-state, the tax assessed on it is 10% of the price here, and local price noticeably exceeds MSRP. (Let's say, for example, a Springfield GI .45, which MSRP's at $600. Most of America's gunshops'll do $400-500 for it, but around here it's more $800-900--guess how much I'm taxed on when I go to pick it up? And, oh by the way, that's on the item, the shipping, AND the typically $25-50 transfer fee for receiving and securing it and running a background check...)
But is it lying? When 12-7 sent me a load of series 1 reprints they were selling them for rather less than the RRP which is all you could base as "assessed value" on, yet they declared the amount I paid and I was charged VAT on that amount.Is that wrong? Should sellers declare the full value of something even if they sold it in a sale? I'm pretty certain the answer is "no" - after all the VAT I pay on products in the UK is based on the sales price, not an "assessed value", and as the VAT is payable to HMRC I'd expect the same rules to apply.
And what happens with Sales Tax? If you are in the US and buying from the EU you shouldn't be charged VAT (if the seller's turnover is large enough for them to register for VAT). I'm presuming that the same works in reverse - since the EU buyers are from outside any US state they aren't being charged Sales Tax?
Ethically, assuming the tax in question is ethical to begin with, one should pay tax on the actual purchase price, not the MSRP. MSRP is set somewhat arbitrarily at first based on predicted market value - market value, that is what manufacturers hope the market will value the product at, and, therefore, be willing to pay. Eventually, based on supply-and-demand, the actual market price continually shifts, and so should the taxes. If a company desires to send an add-on for free, ethically I see no problem with declaring $0.00 as its price. Value and price are not the same, and confusing the two creates problems.
As intimated, I do not think it is lying for a company to put $0.00 for a product if it was, in fact, free. Hiding sales by such means is a different scenario, but free is free.
Update #13 on the KS is about the Ares guys going to the GAMA trade show in Las Vegas this coming week.
Is anyone from the group here planning on going?
So at that rate, David, the EU's VAT should be even MORE Not A Big Deal than my projections indicated... (When I do a projections table or spreadsheet, I always try to factor based on worst possible interpretations.) I'm not lumping you in with 'em, but some of your fellow Europeans do give the impression that if they had nothing left to complain about, they'd complain about having nothing to complain about! LOL
I'm not sure its entirely the VAT issue that EU members are unhappy about. Its more about EU members getting a raw deal from an EU company on the postage because of their distribution arrangements (and not just with the Kickstarter, but with Ares projects in general). When you end up paying (in some cases) neaerly twice the US price and the models are not available for weeks or sometimes months after the release date I can see that as a legitimate gripe.
I'm not seeing how Ares is giving you guys the raw deal. We know from Wings that you guys end up paying the VAT/Import fees anyway. It's just handed to you guys in the form of the base cost of the miniature... from the distributors and LGS.
Ares has also stated that Europe only accounts for 30% of their market. It would not make sense for them to ship out 70% of their product to other countries, when they can just ship 30% in. And from what I understand of the VAT system, they would end up paying VAT on 100% of it, raising the cost everywhere. Just does not seem like good business sense to me.
As for products showing up in Europe later then in the US, that's a simple fact of logistics. If it lands here first, it has to get there later. I guess they could delay the release until it is in the stores in Europe, but again, that does not make business sense.
Perhaps one day Ares will be a large enough company to allow them to have a shipment go to both locations. Barring that, I think you guys are looking/blaming the wrong entity here.
Thats very much an "I'm alright Jack, I'm inboard" response. I imagine if the boot was on the other foot you would look at this rather differently. But I think you've just outlined the "raw deal" aspects there quite nicely. If MRP here was about 20% more than yours to cover differences in sales tax then that would be fine. But they are typically double, if not more. So why is that? Do we pay for two loads of shipping? Once from China to the US, once from the US to Europe? Do they sell to distributors at different rates here and there? If Ares was a US company then it would be understandable. But it isn't. And release dates - how come other companies can achieve near-simultaneous release dates both sides of the Atlantic? Its eminently doable. They just don't.
No, it's a response that looks at all the different sources that could be causing the issue, not just blaming the company that makes the product... which no one has any proof that they are giving you a raw deal. With everyone blaming Ares for sticking it you the EU guys with out any evidince to back it up, it just starts to sound like a conspiracy theory. lol
As for you guys paying double, talk to your distributors and stores. Ask Dom, he's a UK retail guy. From what I understand, Ares ships everything to Alliance Game Distributors. The path and method it takes from there to any of the EU distributors I do not know. I don't know if its Ares selling directly to those EU distributors or if it's Alliance that handles it. For me, I deal directly with Ares, and Alliance just handles the logistics for our transactions. But that might not be the case for other distributors, because they may also be getting other US goods through them at the same time.
Let's look at a sample product from start to finish.
US EU Production cost or initial value (EU is more due to higher shipping costs) 10.00 11.00 VAT/Texes/Customes (just guessing at 25% for everything here). 0.00 13.75 Distributor Cost 10.00 13.75 Distributor Markup 11.00 15.13 Store Cost 11.00 15.13 Store Markup 15.40 21.18 Retail Price 15.40 21.18
Again,that's just a simplified sample product based on what are roughly US markups. I have no idea what the markups are for the EU and what kind of taxes might be accessed at each step. I highly doubt you guys would see a price drop if they imported in to Italy first and then shipped everything out from there. All the same Vat/taxes are still going to be applied and all of the same markup is going to be applied at each step.
I am however, pretty sure Ares is not marking up their products just for EU sales. That could only hurt them and goes against everything any business wants to do... make money!
If they were headquartered in the US, would this topic even be being discussed??? Not according to you:
Ares has stated time and again that they are US based and ran company, with it's headquarters in Italy. And based on the numbers they have given, 30% of their sales being in the EU, I'd say that another 5% goes to Other parts of the world and that 65% are in North America. If that is even remotely accurate, why would they not conduct them selves as a US based business?If Ares was a US company then it would be understandable.
As for simultaneous release dates, there are so many factors involved there it's hard to even talk about it. Ares again has given some information to us on this front. They are not large enough of a company (read, don't have the funds) to maintain a warehouse in both the US and the EU. So, with only one warehouse to ship things out of and knowing the 30/70 split of sales that they have, where would you put your warehouse? If you were a smart business person, you'd put it in the US. Now lets say that you did a manufacturing run of 100k units and they had all arrived at the warehouse. You know 70k of those are going to be sold in the same country as the warehouse is out. The other 30k have to be shipped to the EU, a trip that takes 4 weeks (just making up a number here to reflect shipping time and customs delays). You have already paid the factory for those 100k units, so you are out that money already. Would you hold back those 70k units that you could be selling and generating cash flow from for the 4 weeks it takes the other 30k units to make it to the EU?
Now, if we look back to the initial cause of complaint here, it was the shipping on the KS products to the EU. I can tell you for a fact that Ares did everything they could to lower those costs you to you guys. They were even willing to outsource the entire shipping operation to me if I could get better shipping rates through the USPS then Alliance could get through UPS (UPS is known to be higher priced for international shipping then the USPS in most cases). So Ares was willing to pay to have the product shipped from the distributor to me, pay me a handling fee and cover other expenses if it meant they could save you EU guys a decent amount of money on shipping. Alas, due to the size and weight of these boxes, I could not beat the quotes they already had by more then a dollar or two to most of the countries.
And I will agree that if the game cost us nearly double, we would be upset about it as well. i just don't think we would be putting the blame solely on the company when they have at least given us some info on why things are or how they are done. There are so many other factors outside their control, it just does not seem fair to blame them.
some interesting points, and perhaps some useful areas of research for Ares since other companies obviously can deal with near simultaneous release dates - maybe it is just a matter of size, maybe it is also a matter or experience. And on pricing they could always, if they chose, set the price to the distributors to be a constant wherever they were in the world and spread the "overhead" equally per product item. For example, if we take the 70/30 split as accurate and apply it to the Kickstarter they could have set the Captain level at a round $260 flat rate around the world. That wouldn't be unreasonable, would it? :)
(of course if they did that and it spawned a greater interest in the rest of the world then that could result in the kind of growth that could see Ares distribution methods grow and improve, and hence resolve the situation anyway :D - win wins all round. And it would be supporting Ares and the games we love, so we'd all be in favour of that, wouldn't we?)
Last edited by David Manley; 03-18-2013 at 22:52.
I think size and experience could be big factors in the release dates.
As for setting the Captain level at $260 with free worldwide shipping as being fair, that all depends on if you want the company, and thus the game, be be around next year. I personally don't think it's fair to ask that. You are basically asking them for a 23% discount on their already below retail prices offered in the KS.
I do a very large portion of my AA business to international customers, but if they asked me to give them free shipping, I'd have to politely decline. That, or raise my base prices to cover that "free" shipping... which would kill my sales both here in the States and overseas...putting me out of business.
I think one of the problem here is that people are comparing this KS with others like the CMoN Zombicide KS. I believe that Ares is using Kickstarter in the way that it was intended... to kick start a project in to production. By this I mean, Ares is using the fund from the KS to seed the growth of a new game line, not to produce the game as the end result of the KS. CMoN does just the opposite. In fact, they are really just using KS to sell directly to customers, bypassing both the distributors and retails stores. And they are using their customers money to sell that those same customers the product. As a company (in regards to the KS project product) they have very little to no risk involved.
Since they have no requirements to fund future expansions of the game (they'll just do another KS for that), and they have cut at the distributor (12%) and the retailer (40%), they have plenty of room to give all the international backers that 23% discount. Ares can't afford to do this because they still need the support of the distributors and retail stores carrying their products. I know my FLGS does not carry the CMoN line of games because there is no incentive for him to do so... everyone that really wants the game is just going to buy it via the KS project and there is not going to be any "normal release" products made for it for him to sale.
No I'm not. OK, so I used the Early Bird level (as thats what i'm signed up to) but if the 70/30 split is accurate they could charge a flat rate $260 to anywhere in the world (US included) and make the same income as the current arrangement - for the normal Captain its $278.Originally Posted by The Royal Hajj
EB Captain is $240 and the normal Captain is $260 (not sure where you are getting $278 from as that is not a pledge level anywhere)
I'm not sure where your 70/30 comes in to play?
What I'm obviously failing to get across is this. If the Captain level had been pitched at $260 for early bird and $275 for regular**, including postage to anywhere in the world, Ares would most likely have received the same income as having a US / RoW split (and could potentially have generated significant additional interest outside the US - this could have been a really innovative and hooked a lot more players early in the life of the game).
The 70/30 split is ased on your previous comment regarding the current split of sales.
** with suitable equivalents at other levels - some simple sums to work out the relevant costs
Ahh, you are saying they should have raised the cost of the game for everyone so that you guys did not have to pay shipping. Yeah, that sounds fair to me
I'm pulling this table from the other thread I posted it in:
US MSRP US KS Cpt. US AA EU KS Cpt. EU AA Starter Set 90.00 - 65.00 - 65.00 Exclusive Ships 76.00 - 60.00 - 60.00 Series 1 Ships 152.00 260.00 120.00 260.00 120.00 Game Mat 35.00 Free 25.00 Free 25.00 Attitude Indicator 5.00 Free 5.00 Free 5.00 Combat Ruler 5.00 Free 5.00 Free 5.00 Terrain Pack #1 10.00 Free 10.00 Free 10.00 Shipping 15.00 Free 15.00 60.00 75.00 Sub Total 388.00 260.00 305.00 320.00 365.00 VAT (20%) 0.00 0.00 .00 64.00
73.00
Total 388.00 260.00 305.00 384.00 438.00
You say you are not happy with paying close to double what us US player pay. Yet, here the KS gives you the opportunity to buy it all for less than US retail including shipping and VAT, and you are still not happy?
"No, that sounds fair to me"
Why not? its a global gaming community and everyone is being extolled to support the KS and the game, so why not place an equal load on everyone? :)
Personally I'm happy, but I'm aware tta there are many, many who are not and who have decided not to opt in at this stage as a result. If I wasn't happy I'd have passed on the whole thing and waited until the models arrive (tbh I'll be mostly using this with my existing 1/1200 modle collection, I'm buying in because I want to support the project). I've seen the table severla times and its worth noting that even at $260/$275 for the captain's level the US subscribers would be getting a steal. I guess what I'm saying this could have been an opportunity to really do something quite unusual and to give the project a very good chance outside the US. If they'd done it from the outset it would have avoided the "we are being shafted" comments, made Ares look really good and no-one would have batted an eyelid other than appreciative ones (as an aside there are several US based compenies that already do something similar - niche areas admittedly - and seem to do OK out of it)
And I'd like an Aston Martin, so you foot the freight for it for me? ;)
Ares could have hidden the shipping charges in the game prices and made them selves look good. Instead, they told it the way it was and worked very hard to find a better way to do it. And all they got was complaints. No thank you for letting us buy this below retail or anything like that.
And at $384, the EU subscribers are not getting a steal??
Whatever. It was just a suggestion, i'm not surprsed it hasn't got any traction at your end. What the hell do I know anyway :/
btw, Aston Martin DB9 MSRP is pretty much identical in the US and The UK, so it looks like someone is doing it :)
How is it that you are upset with us for not wanting to pay for part of your gameI just don't get that.
Yep, someone is... the US Govt. They are not charging excess taxes and fees on imported goods(oh, and that's about the only thing they are doing right
)
Don't get me wrong in this whole discussion, I completely see why you guys are upset (and I feel for you on a personal level). I just feel you all are upset at the wrong people. All that free healthcare, schools and other entitlements have to be paid for some how, and this is part of it.
In Australia Aston Martin about 60% dearer than us or uk....now that hurts! Luxury car tax plus gst (vat). So I decided not to buy one and opted for KS sog. Well that's my story anyway!
but its NOT the VAT people are questioning (well, some may be). If it was they'd be whinging about "the moidels cost 20% more than the US - how unfair". Its the fact that they cost double. Thats not down to governments. Thats down to distribution practices.
"In Australia Aston Martin about 60% dearer than us or uk"
I was thinking of getting one, but they are crap at towing horse boxes and don't do well in bogs so I went for a Hilux instead :D
Aston Martin - limited to driving around Australia. SoG - the whole world is yours to explore (and dominate).
David, do I understand you correctly, that what you are suggesting is that the sticker price for the KS EB Captain and regular Captain be raised, for example, from $240 to $260, and from $260 to $275 respectively - and similarly for the other pledge levels? And by doing so, those in the U.S. would shoulder some of the burden of the cost to the EU and elsewhere? And that this would, also, in your opinion, garner goodwill for Ares because the KS cost to everyone, regardless of location, would be the same? And that this would be in alignment with the spirit of being a global community of players?
I don't feel comfortable jumping into this discussion until I believe I understand the different sides.
Essentially yes. You get the benefit of geography in terms of when you get your goodies. And other companies make similar arangements to ensure as far as is practicable and notwithstanding the local efefcts of taxes that base prices are geographically independent. Plus a move that expanded the customer base would seem to be a good thing, especially when we are all being called upon to help support this good cause.
Anyway, its not a side. Its an opinion, only mine. I don't expect anyone on the West side of the pond to be in any way supportive. Why woud you? You hold all the cases. As far as this KS is concerned the rest of the world (standfast where Ares is in Italy and the production facility in China) and I guess Ares commercial viability doesn't need to exist.
I do not know how much Ares would have hurt its U.S. sales if the EB Captain (the one I chose) was $260 as opposed to $240. Apparently, the company assessed that as a bad move - remember you stated "as far as possible" so you must acknowledge it might not possible for Ares. If the intel Ares had suggested that a price point of $260 would result in less backers, it was wise to set it up as it did; one problem is that companies, especially when launching new products, do not know the corresponding elasticity of demand coefficient. One thing to keep in mind, is that less backers at a higher price point does not benefit Ares here because Ares would not be pocketing the additional $20; the $20 would have underwritten shipping, VAT, etc. If Ares did not have sufficient intel to suggest that $260 would have lessened the number of backers, it probably could have done so. Until the discussions here, I don't know how many Americans would have thought "This is a higher price than it should be because we're underwriting Europeans". If I saw $260 for EB Captain, free shipping worldwide, I doubt I would have noticed anything. Again, not knowing Ares marketing research, I do not know the rationale of its decision, and the company could have made the wisest decision as it currently is. I also don't know if $260 as opposed to $240, etc. would have hurt sales in the long-run. I skip one dinner out with my wife, and the $20 or more is made up. One thing I have kept in mind when buying games is not the sticker price but lifetime value. If I buy $100 with of WGF planes, and play the game 100 times, my cost was $1 per game. Not much to think about there.
One thing I challenge you on is the comment about those of us here to not be "in any way supportive". Early on I suggested Ares add a pledge option where we can provide some funds to underwrite international shipping. I, for one, did not choose EB Commodore to ensure my international mates had access to that savings. I doubt I am alone on this.
I think if you are finding less-than-desired support from Americans at present it is due to, what appears to many here, as incessant complaining about something that is due to governmental practices and the logistical ability of a small company. One could say that the discussion centers on Ares shipping policies, etc., but too many of the posts discussed VAT and how VAT is assessed. On a site where political conversations are discouraged, it makes it difficult to address such an issue. Additionally, I think our reading of the discussions makes some of our European friends appear as saying we have an obligation to underwrite European costs. That might not be what anyone is actually claiming, but that is what is coming across. That is a hard position to defend. There is a difference between choosing to underwrite by actually making pledges, and being told we have an obligation to underwrite. Again, the obligation part is what is coming across at times.
In summary, I think Ares could have raised the pledge amounts a bit without any significant loss, knowing I am speaking in ignorance of intel. If I found out it was to decrease some of the international cost, I would not have had a problem, even more so if anyone ever issued a thanks. Once the conversation took the route it did, my support waned a bit. Again, I doubt I am alone here. As for Ares' present ability to ship efficiently internationally from China, I must take Keith's understanding as fact because I have no data to challenge it, and I have no reason, whatsoever, to question his integrity. Hopefully, if Ares continues to grow, international logistics could be improved - and I realize the chicken-and-egg situation here.
Last edited by 7eat51; 03-19-2013 at 09:44.
We (Americans) do have this counter situation on just about every other miniature company (and other manufacturers like guns etc.) and have to bite the bullet. Games Workshop is not a good example, but there are several other UK companies that only sell/ship from there so the choice for us is to pay high or buy from the rare US distributor that has included that into their sale price. Don't get me started on guns from FN. I love their 5.7, but I remember how much it was when it came out and I looked at design and material and couldn't come up with the value, then I found out they were only made over there. Higher cost of living, higher wage, higher tax, then shipping. It all adds up.
Sadly, I usually just stay away from those products (which reduces my access to 2mm minis among other things). I imagine that is what I would do in this case as I would not be able to justify the cost that you guys are having to foot.
Rain falls everywhere, but you only notice it when you get drenched.
Last edited by OmegaLazarus; 03-19-2013 at 10:31. Reason: left out a word that changed the meaning of an entire bit.
I like that one. I may use it myself sometime.Rain falls everywhere, but you only notice it when you get drenched.
As an aside - I was pleased to find a large parcel waiting for me from the US today. A set of WW1 models that I'd ordered a little while back. About $110 worth. Mr HMRC had decided he couldn't be bothered to do the paperwork to levy VAT (some you win, some you lose, today the fates were smiling)
And it was free P&P (which the company offers anywhere in the world) :)
Which is just to say some companies offer such a service, others don't. I like doing business with those that do :)
Thats not what I said. I said I wouldn't expect it. There's a difference.
Up to $153,587... only $6400 to go! Yes, I know, this is a little off my normal rounding, but if we hit that point... meaning, unless I pledge in before, get it within $20 and I will PERSONALLY put it Over The Top myself.
I know there is a long time remaining for the kickstarter. But, is there anything we could do to get the hype machine going full speed? I am kicked in on a dice game called Dungeon Roll (Here) that is going crazy right now with pledges. I would really like to get both SoG and WoG in a more prominent public position.
I was thinking about something, but it was WoG related... Gonna post it over there.
Oops, back down to $153,462. $6600 to next stretch.
http://theswash.com/wp-content/uploa...yota_hilux.jpg
>;)
$153,852. Moving back in the right direction and getting closer... $6200 to go. Come on, guys, let's see what kinda extra ships get unlocked at $200K... we're already 3/4 of the way there. (Though I'd REALLY like to see what would get unlocked at quarter-mil... and while I wish we could find out what would await at half I doubt we'll get there, maybe $375K at best.)
Follow the projections on KickTraq to see what Sails of Glory might pull in for a final total. The projections are 200-275k right now. The project is hitting a mid-kickstart plateau right now.
At this point, I'm thinking $250K is optimistic--but I'm trying to keep a positive tone. (And I'm hoping with the early plateau, we might get a "midcourse bump" in addition to the last-days spike.)
If it makes $175K but not $200, I'm thinking I'll mop up the seconds on everything except for KS exclusives and AA "special add-ons", including the maps, via 12-7 or AA. Doing a "Complete Collection Battle" right, you need at least two rulers per starter, one attitude indicator and 1-2 terrain packs per map... probably one map per eight ships, maybe per 16 if you push... one crew deck per four ships... this is ALREADY getting expensive, I'm projecting a Commodore package with addons to complete the Starter (2 rulers per) and maps (2 TP's per) at around $655. If it makes $200K, the add-on ships are at a 25% savings... different enough to make the 4% equity difference from an AA mop-up worth keeping it all in KS for me even though I'm looking for SOMETHING to throw my old friend Bill some business with (unless I give him my WoG business and Keith SoG, or buy minis from Bill and maps and accessories from Keith... this is the problem with having multiple friends in the same business).
Also, it depends on if Andrea takes my advice about Victory's near-sisters for the Side B card instead of herself at different vintage...
This is a good saying, and worth remembering.
This is basically a 60% increase from where we're at now. Since the game is already funded, there is no real incentive for people to wait to make their initial pledge. What I would anticipate is folks doing add-on pledges to buy additional mats, etc. But given the comparison between $5 and $20 items and $260 pledge levels, I would be surprised if late additions would amount to this much.
I'm wondering if Ares made the right choice of time periods based on previous 70/30 remarks. If 70% of the market is in the U. S., wouldn't Ares have done better to choose a period after 1800 that would have included more U. S. ships? It seems the USS Constitution was thrown in as a stretch goal to attract U. S. customers at the last of production planning as it does not fit in with the other ships either in time period or size. But then too if they would have chosen the Golden Age of Piracy, more gamers would have been drawn to the game since most have no knowledge of history but think pirates are cool.
I would think that for mass appeal, no matter which side of whichever pond you are on, it is hard to do better than to draw a bulls eye around the Battle of Trafalgar first as Ares has done.
I would also agree that the place to go next for mass appeal would be late 17th Early 18th Carolinas to the Caribbean.
The Pirate motif does lend itself to some kick-butt graphics.
Last edited by RichardPF; 03-19-2013 at 20:49.
Or considering how well another Kickstarter is doing right now:
OK, So why isn't this Alien Zombie Pirate Ninjas?Or considering how well another Kickstarter is doing right now:
I think both of you guys are onto something, or maybe just on something (Zombie Pirates?).
I think Ares did well with the first round, though I understand the comment about starting with the U.S. Unfortunately, as pointed out, most folks here might not know much about U.S. Age-of-Sail history. I admit I WAS one until I joined the Anchorage. I think the age of piracy would definitely be a gateway for folks, and I would be highly supportive of that for the next round even though I would like to see U.S. frigates. Pirates, I think, would definitely be attractive to school-age children and high schoolers. I can see some role-players I know get into the piracy era as well.
Last edited by 7eat51; 03-19-2013 at 21:54.
How about ships of the Barbary Wars for a future expansion. That was a conflict about "piracy" which had early US ships in it. It would be smaller, faster scale frigates, sloops and schooners. Might be fun and hook other demographics.
And while we may eyeroll at Zombie Pirates and the like, a lot of what is out there is that type of fare. I think that a serious game about the Spanish main would do great biz and teach some history too. As for land masses and costal areas, how about Port Royal in 1:1000 scale? And if you want to incorporate merchant ships, well, there's the entire Spanish treasure fleet to plunder.I think both of you guys are onto something, or maybe just on something (Zombie Pirates?).
I think Ares did well with the first round, though I understand the comment about starting with the U.S. Unfortunately, as pointed out, most folks here might not know much about U.S. Age-of-Sail history. I admit I WAS one until I joined the Anchorage. I think the age of piracy would definitely be a gateway for folks, and I would be highly supportive of that for the next round even though I would like to see U.S. frigates. Pirates, I think, would definitely be attractive to school-age children and high schoolers. I can see some role-players I know get into the piracy era as well.
As much as I would like the Barbary Wars, I think the Golden Age of Piracy would have broader appeal. Personally, I would like to have ships from all the time periods; strategically, I hope Ares will introduce lines that have the broadest appeal first, especially for attracting new players, to ensure the game's viability. Additionally, I think once people play, they will enjoy the game, and that could open doors to learning about the other ship lines and associated time periods.
Barbary Wars and 1812 is almost a two-fer. Maybe even almost a three-fer, and we already have the Constitution in the pipeline. That having been said, if I were the one bankrolling the next project it would be centered in the El Caribe.
If Ares would follow up this kickstarter with a War of 1812 kickstarter, I would definitely buy one of everything and then some. Since the U. S. 44-gun frigate model is already going to be out there, perhaps have a starter set with the 38-gun Constellation, the Macedonian or Shannon, an 1813 U.S. sloop-of-war, and a British Cruizer-class brig-sloop.
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