Maximizing the Kickstarter

[7eat51]

It is awesome seeing how well the kickstarter is doing. Are there ways to ensure it does not lose the wind in its sails?

Recently, I was part of a kickstarter for Pathfinder RPG. One of the things Paizo did was providing add-ons. If someone added on $25 to their pledge, they would receive something, etc. I am not sure if Ares has anything like that planned, but for those of us who have pledged at the captain level, there is really no place for us to go now in adding more. Many of us would be happy to kick in more money for an island, or some captain cards, etc. This would help Ares reach its other stretch goals. Unfortunately, we can buy additional product when the stretch goal is reached. If the proposed ships were add-ons, we could pledge the $20 apiece up front, and if the stretch goals are reached, the ships become a reality, otherwise the added on cash is returned. There is a better chance this way of Ares getting the funding.

Just some ramblings on how the kickstarter could garner more funds.

[RichardPF]

I am with you. I understand that everyone's financial position is different, but I had expected to find and sign on for a pledge level substantially above the Early Bird Captain. It was a bit of a bummer that there wasn't one.

[Watchdog]

Some Kickstarter companies offer add-ons a couple of days before the end of the campaign, or just before an important goal is about to be reached.

Ares would do a smart thing to add small add-ons later.

[7eat51]

I am with you. I understand that everyone's financial position is different, but I had expected to find and sign on for a pledge level substantially above the Early Bird Captain. It was a bit of a bummer that there wasn't one.

I agree. I couldn't believe that the most they asked of individuals was around $250. For the first time ever, I was ready to pledge more, a lot more. I must admit, that was primarily due to this community. The time spent here has deepened my interest in the game. I think that says something of the folks here, and our need to recruit members to the Anchorage.

Some Kickstarter companies offer add-ons a couple of days before the end of the campaign, or just before an important goal is about to be reached.

Ares would do a smart thing to add small add-ons later.

I think they would do well to do it now. There is momentum. If they do one add-on now, and if that reaches a stretch goal quickly, then add on another, etc.

[Watchdog]

Eric, I think we are going to reach 50,000$ quite quickly, however, the following stretch goals may require some candy.

[7eat51]

Eric, I think we are going to reach 50,000$ quite quickly, however, the following stretch goals may require some candy.

I believe you are correct. Edit: I just checked and it is already over $42,000.

Jan, you and others have mentioned in another thread about the postage, taxes, etc. I agree that the postage, duties, and taxes make it difficult for Europeans and others to be as involved as you might want to be.

One possible solution is to create a $1 or $5 pledge - or something like that - that simply goes to defraying some of the postage cost internationally. I, and I am sure others here, would be happy to make such a pledge to help our fellow shipmates out and to enable them to more fully participate in the kickstarter. The amount gathered could be apportioned based on levels pledged.

[Watchdog]

While that definitely would be nice, Eric, a simpler solution would be to ship from an EU country.

I only pledged for Marine ($65 + $25 postage). If Ares finds a way to ship from, for instance, Italy, I will definitely pledge for Captain ($260 + postage, no customs/taxes at all). Ares currently gets $195 less from me than they could, since the current cost of Captain is $384 for me, $124 of which would go to postage and customs/taxes, not to Ares. I am not willing to spend that much, especially not under such conditions, where almost 1/3 of the money won't support the game at all.

If Ares finds a way to ship from an EU country, the pledges of many EU residents will go a lot higher, helping us reach the goals sooner if not even to reach them at all.

[7eat51]

While that definitely would be nice, Eric, a simpler solution would be to ship from an EU country.

I only pledged for Marine ($65 + $25 postage). If Ares finds a way to ship from, for instance, Italy, I will definitely pledge for Captain ($260 + postage, no customs/taxes at all). Ares currently gets $195 less from me than they could, since the current cost of Captain is $384 for me, $124 of which would go to postage and customs/taxes, not to Ares. I am not willing to spend that much, especially not under such conditions, where almost 1/3 of the money won't support the game at all.

If Ares finds a way to ship from an EU country, the pledges of many EU residents will go a lot higher, helping us reach the goals sooner if not even to reach them at all.

I assumed this wasn't an option given the shipment from a central warehouse in the U.S. Not knowing how such things work, if Ares shipped to a European distributor, would the company have to pay all of the duties, etc.? If so, then it would still have to recoup that cost by passing it on.

[Watchdog]

This is fresh from Kickstarter chat:http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...omment-2364947

Creator Ares Games 14 minutes ago
@anderland - Ares has an OFFICE in Italy. But our business is completely outside Europe. We manufacture in China, then ship to our warehouse in the US (Ft. Wayne, IN). At the moment we do not have ANY logistics outside of the US. As I already told in a previous reply, at least until now a comparison with Zombicide (which has thousands, rather than hundreds, of backers) is not fair, and in any case the Sails of Glory starter set IS big - 40 x 27 x 8.5 cm before shipping packaging. And indidivual ship packs are light. but bulky 10 x 15 x 6 cm - a single ship pack I guess is about as big as the pack of Zombie Dogs of our millionaire friends :). That said, we are actually already taking upon ourselves a chunk of the international freight. But believe me, it's a problem which hurts Ares much more than you, so it's something we definitely want to find a solution for!
Another VERY important note. TAXES. As you know, US prices are BEFORE taxes. Taxes get added afterwards when the parcel clears customs, and sales taxes are minimal or non-existant within the US. If we ship to a customer to Europe from an European location, there's 21% VAT which must be added (or taken) somewhere. I don't know how other companies take care of this tax, but there's no way you can escape from it (except breaking laws, of course!). This means that, assuming we ship a $ 100 reward from a European location to another European location, we should ask the customer $ 21 more to cover VAT - or we must consider we lose $ 18 out of the pledge value (which we might well do of course - if overall we can find a way to offer a good deal to our EU customers, we'll be happy to lose $ 18 and gain a happy customer!)

Hmmm...:confused:

[Watchdog]

Maybe there is some hope for us EU folks: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...omment-2365574

Creator Ares Games 4 minutes ago
@Watchdog - we'll be happy to get more money from you :) I will go and find a freight solution, but it's unlikely I will be able to do that tonight! Please be patient for a little while.

I think it could help if all people who would pledge more if the USA-EU problem gets solved could post in Kickstarter chat and state this intent, so that the Ares fellow responsible for handling this matter has some solid arguments for the bosses.;)

[David Manley]

I agree. I couldn't believe that the most they asked of individuals was around $250.

Personally I'm glad they did. It shows a degree of realism that seems to be lacking in some Kickstarter projects, or rather a willingness to exploit people through peddling non-sensical "bonusses". One of the ones I saw had people paying through the nose for essentially what could be bought in the shops in a few months plus a "limited edition" 28mm scale tank - for the same price as a very nicely spec'd REAL car!!! Insane! Mind you, hats off to a company that can part fools from their money that easily I guess. But for me it shows some fiscal restraint (amazing for an Italian company :) ) and common sense on the part of Ares in the face of the worldwide economic clusterf**k with which we all have to live these days.

If they want to generate more interest then add reasonably priced extra ships (the Constitution could extend to other ships in the class for example, and a British 1812 frigate would be a handy addition at least) and SORT OUT THE LUDICROUS POSTAGE OUTSIDE THE US!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Diamondback]

Well, adding more Kickstarter Exclusive Variants of the four sculpts already committed would be another stretch... though they shot themselves in the foot with Concordes as the only one left is HMS Courageuse. Temeraires and Slade 74's, though, are a veritable gold mine of reprints, around 100 of the former ALONE being completed.

[RichardPF]

About 16 hours in and Ares is on the verge of the first stretch goal!
Ya know, if everyone who wanted an HMS Victory went ahead and added $20 now, that alone would put it over...

[Diamondback]

And my suggestion above would be very economical to do... no new tooling cost, just researching and developing the pad-printing masks for the paint schemes and printing the unique bits of paper.

[Diamondback]

Come on, guys, if just five more of us kick in the $20 for Victory we'll have it. LOL

[RichardPF]

And there is stretch goal 1! Less than 17 hours in! WOW!
Judging by the six week run they set up, I would guess that this is really blowing the Ares folks away!

[Diamondback]

Yeeah! IF we hit $100K, buying at Captain level... well, I did the math and if we get there you're getting $350 worth of product for $260. I don't know WHAT the standard e-tail discount will be, but if you can swing the cashflow even for EUROPE the Captain package seems very much the way to go. If not, Marine + Mate + $40 gets you the six exclusives and starter, leaving the eight "mass market" singles to mop up as budget allows.

Heck, were I Ares, I would have unlocked additional prints on existing sculpts at the 50 and 75k levels, and made Victory and Old Ironsides higher-level unlocks... or done one or two groups of added reprints, then one of the two added sculpts, then another 1-2 reprint levels, then the other.

Maybe even structured it to add a new pair of variant ships every $10K, then a new other add-on every $25K and a major (ie, higher-cost to produce like a new sculpt) expansion every $50K or $100K. IF things hold at this rate, this could be a half-mil Kickstarter... or if they pick up, move into seven-figures territory. Ares? Heck, I bet Kickstarter themselves are crapping bricks at how fast this one went and is continuing to go!

Spread the word, gents!

[7eat51]

Personally I'm glad they did. It shows a degree of realism that seems to be lacking in some Kickstarter projects, or rather a willingness to exploit people through peddling non-sensical "bonusses". One of the ones I saw had people paying through the nose for essentially what could be bought in the shops in a few months plus a "limited edition" 28mm scale tank - for the same price as a very nicely spec'd REAL car!!! Insane! Mind you, hats off to a company that can part fools from their money that easily I guess. But for me it shows some fiscal restraint (amazing for an Italian company :) ) and common sense on the part of Ares in the face of the worldwide economic clusterf**k with which we all have to live these days.

If they want to generate more interest then add reasonably priced extra ships (the Constitution could extend to other ships in the class for example, and a British 1812 frigate would be a handy addition at least) and SORT OUT THE LUDICROUS POSTAGE OUTSIDE THE US!!!!!!!!!!!!

David, I truly appreciate your position. I posted the kickstarter for the WWII minis with the bizarre bonuses. I, like you, could not believe the pledges it was asking for and the corresponding rewards (if I'm not mistaken, you might have mentioned about the price of one pledge for a tank being equivalent to a Toyota truck - forgive me if I have you confused with another mate). I would not change the current type of pledges Ares offered, but provided additional incentives for those who would want them. For example, for an additional amount, individuals could receive captain/admiral cards, islands, etc. None of these would have to be outrageous in terms of increased amounts. It simply provides those who desire options for increased investment and support of the game. I started playing WGF a couple of months ago; since then, I have invested quite a bit building up a collection of minis. With the kickstarter, I would have done the same, but it would have provided Ares with the cash up front to fund production. I will eventually buy extra stuff anyway.

[The Royal Hajj]

There are plans for both optional add on and free bonuses at the different tier levels. I'm working with them on a couple of them. These will be announced and shown through out the campaign. When is really up to how quick we can get the details sorted out and concept artwork or actual production photos ready. I can tell you that a KS campaign for Sails have been mentioned and "pushed" towards Ares for about 2 years now. Initially they were opposed to this type of project, mostly I suspect, from not having experience with it.

Now that it has started and funded so well within the first day, there is a little bit of scrambling to get back ahead of the curve. So, for those of you with more money to offer, hang on to it just a little longer for us ;)

[7eat51]

Given the amount of time left for the kickstarter, I suggest we post any creative ideas to the comment section on the kickstarter. This way, if Ares sees them the company might consider incorporating them. Personally, I would love to see quite a few add ons with different options.

[The Royal Hajj]

On the subject of KS projects parting fool of there money, if I have it to spend and want to spend it that way, how is that foolish? I think Ares hit the pledge level/rewards just right. You really do get what you pay for, but there is nothing wrong with offering outrageous items for people with outrageous budgets. Just think of all the people that buy exotic cars... we don't label them as fools (well, until they wrap the car around tree. lol).

[The Royal Hajj]

Given the amount of time left for the kickstarter, I suggest we post any creative ideas to the comment section on the kickstarter. This way, if Ares sees them the company might consider incorporating them. Personally, I would love to see quite a few add ons with different options.

Be sure to post them here as well as I have direct two way communication the decision makers and they are very interested in what the Anchorage members have to say.

[7eat51]

There are plans for both optional add on and free bonuses at the different tier levels. I'm working with them on a couple of them. These will be announced and shown through out the campaign. When is really up to how quick we can get the details sorted out and concept artwork or actual production photos ready. I can tell you that a KS campaign for Sails have been mentioned and "pushed" towards Ares for about 2 years now. Initially they were opposed to this type of project, mostly I suspect, from not having experience with it.

Now that it has started and funded so well within the first day, there is a little bit of scrambling to get back ahead of the curve. So, for those of you with more money to offer, hang on to it just a little longer for us ;)

Thank you for your effort on behalf of this community.

On the subject of KS projects parting fool of there money, if I have it to spend and want to spend it that way, how is that foolish? I think Ares hit the pledge level/rewards just right. You really do get what you pay for, but there is nothing wrong with offering outrageous items for people with outrageous budgets. Just think of all the people that buy exotic cars... we don't label them as fools (well, until they wrap the car around tree. lol).

I need to think on this more. As a pretty strong free-market capitalist and subscriber to the Austrian school of economics, I am in agreement with you. However, when I saw the aforementioned kickstarter with a $10k pledge and tank mini reward, something didn't quite sit right.

[7eat51]

Be sure to post them here as well as I have direct two way communication the decision makers and they are very interested in what the Anchorage members have to say.

By all means. One never knows when a comment could springboard something wonderful. Besides, conversations here is what builds up this community.

[The Royal Hajj]

I need to think on this more. As a pretty strong free-market capitalist and subscriber to the Austrian school of economics, I am in agreement with you. However, when I saw the aforementioned kickstarter with a $10k pledge and tank mini reward, something didn't quite sit right.

I too personally think $10k is silly for a tank mini... but then so is some of the "we'll come teach you the game" rewards for that kind of cash. For people pledging those kinds of funds for such small rewards, it's not even about the reward its self. It's about the fact that they can spend that kind of cash on something so pointless (from a value standing), or it's just about supporting the cause. If I was a millionaire and Ares had $10k pledge, I'd do it just to support them. After all, I'd drop that $10k on some other pointless item during the year... be it a car, a boat, or a freak'n trip to outer space! lol

When I was in to modifying cars heavily, we called those people "ballars". And in some cases I was one of them with a few of my parts. I could have bought a cheaper part that did basically the same thing, but I wanted the one that would also give me the "ohhs" and "ahhs" when people saw or heard about it.

[RichardPF]

I believe that there is a lot of overlap between the SoG and WoG crowds. I understand that tooling up for additional ships in a timely manner to use them as pledge rewards may not be possible, but how about some of the new planes in the pipeline for this year?
Like everything else in as free a marketplace as this is, potential subscribers are Free to Choose to participate at these levels or not. If inventory for these products already resides in the eu, perhaps that might help molify the grumbling as well.

[The Royal Hajj]

Oh, and back on topic, here have been my suggestions to them so far:

• More ships (of course!)
• A different terrain pack as an add on
• possible 3d terrain
• Some other things I'll be doing for Ares that I can't say right now... but think of my AA product line and you could figure it out ;)
• First expansions to the game, like fortification rules and cutting out rules.

[7eat51]

Shore parties.
Some form of caddy for cards.
Foam storage.

[The Royal Hajj]

I believe that there is a lot of overlap between the SoG and WoG crowds. I understand that tooling up for additional ships in a timely manner to use them as pledge rewards may not be possible, but how about some of the new planes in the pipeline for this year?
Like everything else in as free a marketplace as this is, potential subscribers are Free to Choose to participate at these levels or not. If inventory for these products already resides in the eu, perhaps that might help molify the grumbling as well.

I don't think they want to mix the two games. While a lot of us are Wings players, I actually think we are going to end up as about 40% of the actual long term market for this game. The naval genera in general is much larger then the flyboy genera.

Another thing they have to think about is market saturation. If they end up making lots of ship model through the KS, they can't really make them all available at once on the open market. There is only so much the LGS can afford to have on their shelves and only so much someone not part of the KS can spend on the game at one time. Having all that product sitting around is bad for the games reputation. Now, they could sit on those molds and not produce any beyond what they need for the KS folks, but then the delay in ships getting to the LGS is longer then it should be... leading to the perception of a dead or barley living game.

There are so many little and behind teh scenes things we don't think of right way. Like can the company the use to manufacturer the actual miniatures deal with that many different ships and planes at the same time?

[The Royal Hajj]

Some form of caddy for cards.
Foam storage.

Those will most likely fall to the accessories guys like me ;)

[7eat51]

Those will most likely fall to the accessories guys like me ;)

Any chance of a shirt? The WGF ones are great.

[Jack Aubrey]

Any chance of a shirt? The WGF ones are great.

They must be great , or should I say big or large...:cool:

[RichardPF]

For those who might be interested, an early bird captain just opened up (not me, I just noticed it)

[RichardPF]

UPDATE 3

We reviewed the problem of shipping costs to our Canadian backers and we are able to offer the following solution.

If you live in Canada, you need to add:

$ 7 instead of $ 15 for "Gunner" rewards;
$ 12 instead of $ 25 for "Marine" rewards;
$ 25 instead of $ 50 for "Lieutenant" rewards;
$ 30 instead of $ 60 for "Captain" rewards".
If you are a Canadian retailer, you can also pledge for "Admiral of the Fleet" with a $ 50 shipping cost.
Kickstarter only recognizes "US" or "Not in the US", so when you pledge you must click the "I am in the USA" link at the bottom of the page, to trick the system into thinking it's a domestic shipment; then add the indicated amount for the freight cost to your normal pledge.

[Sea Gull]

Shirts would be good. SoG Backer or some such. :cool:

[Cpt Kangaroo]

I for one am as happy as a clam in a mud bank at ebbtide....

The game is finally progressing, and that in itself is reason to celebrate.

I signed up for the Captain level, and although I missed the early bird, the long term value is excellent. I would strongly urge you to do so if you can swing it.

Consider this question. Will you eventually purchase every ship available? If the answer is yes, then go for it!

I feel badly for the EU members and the additional they have to pay. I have been there with similar considerations in Australia. I wish I had some advice for you. I hope a work around is found.

My next step is to network my friends to get active and to participate, I know if they find out later and missed out, I am going to be in a lot of trouble. :)

[Sea Gull]

I feel badly for the EU members and the additional they have to pay. I have been there with similar considerations in Australia. I wish I had some advice for you. I hope a work around is found.

Given that the box sets is weighing in at a whopping 3 kilo I'm not sure what can be done regarding the delivery cost. At some point Ares will end up losing maybe too much money on each EU order shipped, thereby putting further plans in jeopardy. To be honest the cost of the shipping isn't really the issue for me, it's the shipping plus the custom duties. If it costs $60 to send by airmail from the US to NL, then I can't argue with that. The €xx I'll have to pay in custom fees/VAT is something I don't like at all. Again, I don't know if there's anything that can be done about that, apart from having it despatched from an EU location.

[Diamondback]

I need to think on this more. As a pretty strong free-market capitalist and subscriber to the Austrian school of economics, I am in agreement with you. However, when I saw the aforementioned kickstarter with a $10k pledge and tank mini reward, something didn't quite sit right.

Another fan of Von Mises, huh? (Actually, I'm more a Friedman-ite, but Von Mises and Hayek are both closely related philosophically.) Think of the higher price-points as "market segmentation"... the ones willing to pay the most for something to get it earlier act as "beta testers" and help subsidize the costs to move right along the Price - Quantity curve. I may consider the first few willing to go that far before getting enough Quantity together to immediately knock Price down a tad foolish, but if somebody with deep pockets truly wants to throw down that much... well, like I said, at that point create a handful of special Numbered Limited Edition autographed complete sets including the Exclusives and all the stretch-goals met at Kickstarter completion, have Andrea sign and hand-number 'em and let 'em have at it with the Bragging Rights about getting the first ten or 100 copies or whatever. :)

[The Royal Hajj]

They come up with a possible solution... it's not going to work for everyone (if they can finalize it even), but it might help some.

[David Manley]

well, like I said, at that point create a handful of special Numbered Limited Edition autographed complete sets including the Exclusives and all the stretch-goals met at Kickstarter completion, have Andrea sign and hand-number 'em and let 'em have at it with the Bragging Rights about getting the first ten or 100 copies or whatever. :)

reminds me of a line in "The Mysterious Punch Up the Conker" episode of the Goon Show:

"Send ten shilling postal order for free receipt." :)

[Blackrose]

There are plans for both optional add on and free bonuses at the different tier levels. I'm working with them on a couple of them. These will be announced and shown through out the campaign. When is really up to how quick we can get the details sorted out and concept artwork or actual production photos ready. I can tell you that a KS campaign for Sails have been mentioned and "pushed" towards Ares for about 2 years now. Initially they were opposed to this type of project, mostly I suspect, from not having experience with it.

Now that it has started and funded so well within the first day, there is a little bit of scrambling to get back ahead of the curve. So, for those of you with more money to offer, hang on to it just a little longer for us ;)

By this are you saying wait for more incentives to be offered?
karl

[7eat51]

Another fan of Von Mises, huh? (Actually, I'm more a Friedman-ite, but Von Mises and Hayek are both closely related philosophically.

Hard to go wrong with Uncle Milt. All three have done us great service.

By this are you saying wait for more incentives to be offered? karl

The more stretch goals we see, the more willing we'll be to kick in ahead of time to ensure they're reached.

[The Royal Hajj]

By this are you saying wait for more incentives to be offered?
karl

I'm saying as time goes on, more things will open up. You should pledge now to ensure those things do open up. By pledging now, you will not miss out on any future offerings.

[RichardPF]

So I have been noticing that if you add up the backers at each level it does not come up to the same total as the total backers shown at the top of the screen.
At this moment the total at the top shows 437 but if you add the individual levels you get 431.
This has actually been drifting off like this through the entire run.
Anyone have any idea why?
I doubt that Kickstarter is converting extra $ above pledge rewards for the stretch goals or whatever into additional backers.

[Watchdog]

Is it perhaps possible to back without selecting any pledge tier, just by pledging a sum of money?

[Blackrose]

I'm saying as time goes on, more things will open up. You should pledge now to ensure those things do open up. By pledging now, you will not miss out on any future offerings.

OK; good thing I added a Victory and 3 Constitutions, then.
Karl

[Blackrose]

Is it perhaps possible to back without selecting any pledge tier, just by pledging a sum of money?

That is correct.
Karl

[The Royal Hajj]

So I have been noticing that if you add up the backers at each level it does not come up to the same total as the total backers shown at the top of the screen.
At this moment the total at the top shows 437 but if you add the individual levels you get 431.
This has actually been drifting off like this through the entire run.
Anyone have any idea why?
I doubt that Kickstarter is converting extra $ above pledge rewards for the stretch goals or whatever into additional backers.

Also, the auto refresh KS uses for the pages does not always refresh all the stats at the same time. I made the first pledge of the campaign when we were still talking on the phone and activated the project. From my end, it showed my pledge on the page, from his, it did not, but he could see that the funding total had risen. He had to force a manual refresh to see both the pledge and the funding total.

[Old Ironsides]

I for one look forward to seeing what future streach goals might contain. I may be wrong, but I get the feeling that they have already far exceeded what they thought would happen espeically this fast. I predict by the end of the weekend they will blow through the $110K.

I picture a couple of guys sitting around a white board...."What can we do next?" :)

[The Royal Hajj]

I picture a couple of guys sitting around a white board...."What can we do next?" :)

It's more like a white board and several screens from around the world :D

As for future stretches, they have me working on at least two other options right now ;)