Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Struggling With Collision Rules

  1. #1
    Ordinary Seaman
    United States

    Join Date
    Oct 2022
    Location
    AL
    Log Entries
    32
    Name
    Kirk

    Default Struggling With Collision Rules

    I'm struggling to figure out the collision rules, especially the final paragraph on page 13. If I move ship A until it contacts ship B, how can I then move ship B if it would just be moving through ship A? Would I just not move ship B? Also, I see nothing in the rules about what to do the following turn if the two ships aren't entangled and there is no boarding action. Do they just plan maneuvers and move normally? Lastly, the section on collisions (pages 12-14) covers the procedure for moving ships that collide, but it doesn't mention damage. Later on the rules (page 25) mention if friendly ships collide they take damage, so does that same rule apply when enemies collide? Thanks again for all the help.

  2. #2
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    21,614
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    You might find this thread interesting Kirk. Especially the later posts.

    https://www.sailsofglory.org/showthr...llisions+rules

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  3. #3
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    21,614
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Here is another one I found that may interest you.

    https://www.sailsofglory.org/showthr...llisions+rules

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  4. #4
    Ordinary Seaman
    United States

    Join Date
    Oct 2022
    Location
    AL
    Log Entries
    32
    Name
    Kirk

    Default

    Thanks. It appears for every Sails of Glory player there is a different opinion on how collisions should be handled. It seems to me since the bases are so much bigger than the actual ship models that bases touching shouldn't necessarily constitute a collision. What I might do is say for any potential collision you put down the two maneuver cards and see if the planned paths of the two ships cross each other. If they clearly do then it's a collision but if not then it's a near miss.

  5. #5
    Ordinary Seaman
    United States

    Join Date
    Oct 2022
    Location
    AL
    Log Entries
    32
    Name
    Kirk

    Default

    I'm also thinking of saying if a collision is imminent that each involved player is allowed to pick a new maneuver card within one veer of the original to try and avoid the collision. If once the new maneuver cards are placed on the map the paths of the two ships cross then it's a collision.

  6. #6

    Default

    Hello KirkH,
    As you've already discovered, there are many "house rules" about collisions.
    We have also developed a rule that we call "Last Moment Maneuvers". My friend Achim aka Argo developed it.
    Simply "being allowed" to take another course card is probably not an option for every player. Therefore there should already be a clear regulation.

  7. #7

    Default

    Last-minute maneuvers house rule:
    Misjudgments by the players and changes in wind direction and wind force often lead to unwanted collisions in the game, which can only be worked off with great difficulty. This rule is intended to be a way of avoiding collisions.

    If the maneuver cards placed indicate that a collision is imminent, the maneuver cards of the ships threatened by collision may (but do not have to) be replaced by other cards (with restrictions). This is to represent the last-minute improvised maneuver.

    First of all, parties must decide at the same time whether they want to place alternative cards or not. For this you could use a blank or enter marker if necessary.

    If one or both players do not want to change anything, then the previously placed course card applies. If the maneuver is used, then this card WILL be removed and the new cards will apply!
    Then (if desired) 2 stacks of 3 cards each of the Ship's Broken Mast cards are shuffled and placed face down. The player may look at the first pile and choose one of the three possible cards and place it in place of his or her original card. However, he must then blindly draw a card from the stack and place this instead of his next face-down course card for the next round. Thus, the evasive attempt also has the effect!

    In principle, however, only "normal" course cards can be exchanged using this maneuver. If a player has to place RED maneuver cards anyway, or is already placing RED mast cards due to a broken mast, he may not use the maneuver because the ship would then not be able to do so.

  8. #8

    Default

    Change to the official rule on "Ship collisions":
    Due to the enormous amounts of damage caused by dragging B markers in friendly ship collisions versus no damage in enemy ships, we have established the following solution: ALL collisions cause damage between ships. However, basically 2 C damage markers, which mainly cause damage to the rigging. With the addition of causing additional damage to smaller ships for ships of different sizes: If there is a difference of 1 point in hull strength, the regular 2 C-marker damage remains. For each additional point, the smaller ship must draw +1 C damage tokens.
    Reducing this amount of damage is possible by previously planning a boarding action. This action suggests anticipation of the collision and attempts by the crews to minimize damage to the rigging and ship. Therefore, 1 C marker may be chosen and placed back in the bag. However, this can only be done once per round. If two collisions hit the ship in one turn, only 1 damage token can be replaced.

    Reduced damage in collisions with down feathering:
    If both ships only have Slight Sails or Anchors active at the time of the collision, then the damage on both ships is flatly reduced by -1 C marker!
    Of course, this also applies to collisions with wrecks!

  9. #9
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    21,614
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkH View Post
    Thanks. It appears for every Sails of Glory player there is a different opinion on how collisions should be handled. It seems to me since the bases are so much bigger than the actual ship models that bases touching shouldn't necessarily constitute a collision. What I might do is say for any potential collision you put down the two maneuver cards and see if the planned paths of the two ships cross each other. If they clearly do then it's a collision but if not then it's a near miss.
    I have contemplqated this for some time myself Kirk. When playing Wings I only count a clash if the aircraft modeld collide so why not the ships.
    I will give this more thought, as the most complaints from players always concerns the colliding ship rules.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  10. #10
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    21,614
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    I also like your ideas on this option for the damage inflicted Uwe. it seems eminently more historically realistic than the no damage to enemy ships rule and yet is far less draconian than the current rule which seems to severe.

    Rob.
    Last edited by Bligh; 10-23-2022 at 01:49.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  11. #11
    Ordinary Seaman
    United States

    Join Date
    Oct 2022
    Location
    AL
    Log Entries
    32
    Name
    Kirk

    Default

    I like Uwe's changes to the collision damage rules as well. I'll probably adopt them. I had a collision last night and drew the 3-Fire chit and was wondering how two ships running into each other caused a fire. Neither of them was even on fire at the time. Back in Boy Scouts they told us rubbing two sticks together will start a fire so maybe rubbing two wooden ships together will cause a blaze.

  12. #12
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    21,614
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkH View Post
    Back in Boy Scouts they told us rubbing two sticks together will start a fire so maybe rubbing two wooden ships together will cause a blaze.
    With the habit of wetting sails and decks before going into action I doubt if two masts in contact would do it, but it was still a good joke Kirk. I have often wondered how efficient wetting sails was with the wind drying factor to take into consideration and after an hours fighting. Maybe we should increase the chance of fire if the ships collide late in a battle!

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  13. #13
    Stats Committee
    Master & Commander
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Maryland
    Log Entries
    1,682
    Blog Entries
    13
    Name
    Dobbs

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KirkH View Post
    I like Uwe's changes to the collision damage rules as well. I'll probably adopt them. I had a collision last night and drew the 3-Fire chit and was wondering how two ships running into each other caused a fire. Neither of them was even on fire at the time. Back in Boy Scouts they told us rubbing two sticks together will start a fire so maybe rubbing two wooden ships together will cause a blaze.
    Obviously, as the two ships bumped, one of your gunners did a pratfall on a powdermonkey while holding a linstock.

  14. #14
    Surveyor of the Navy
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Log Entries
    3,133
    Name
    David

    Default

    The damage from collision rules, in particular the aspect of only being damaged by collisions with your own ships, was a game mechanic aimed at penalizing players for poor ship handling. My observations from many games is that it doesn't work - players are still only too keen to drive into their own sides ships :D

  15. #15
    Ordinary Seaman
    United States

    Join Date
    Oct 2022
    Location
    AL
    Log Entries
    32
    Name
    Kirk

    Default

    I wonder if maybe the opposite is true. Maybe it wasn't that they were trying to penalize players for colliding with friendly ships but that they didn't want players ramming enemy ships so they decided there is no damage when colliding with an enemy. I could see where someone who doesn't care about playing the game realistically may use his ship as a battering ram by running into as many enemies as possible, which would ruin the enjoyment for everyone else. Maybe that's not the case, but it wouldn't be the first time I've seen rules in games designed to steer players toward playing more realistically.

  16. #16
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    21,614
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    I can only say one thing in answer to that observation Kirk.
    It would be the only time that he ever played in one of my games!

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  17. #17
    Ordinary Seaman
    United States

    Join Date
    Oct 2022
    Location
    AL
    Log Entries
    32
    Name
    Kirk

    Default

    I assume there's some percentage of the SoG market that knows little to nothing about naval warfare in the age of sail and plays simply because it's fun and the ships look nice. Those would be the folks that would need rules to encourage realistic play.

  18. #18

    Default

    There is a saying in Germany: You grow with your tasks...
    With the full set of rules, Sails of Glory is a complex game with many special rules.
    Of course, realism suffers from certain simplifications. But you have to make compromises.
    By staggering the basic and advanced rules and optional rules, each player can have more or fewer rules, depending on their taste. And, of course, house rules open up worlds to him. For my taste, I try to eliminate these "compromises" as much as possible with house rules in order to get more realism in the game. Of course I realize that more rules / exceptions / special rules lengthen the game and make it more complicated. But I'm also an "old hand" and then I have even more fun with the game.

  19. #19
    Captain of the Fleet
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    South Glos
    Log Entries
    2,197
    Name
    Chris

    Default

    Late entry in this discussion, but remember collisions only occur after all movement has been completed.
    Then they ships are moved back to their originating places to see which ship moves first.
    So even if two ships cross over mid move, provided the bases dont overlap at the end of movement there is no collision.

    Plus as DM said, the rule is only there to penalise captains who collide with friendly ships.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •