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Thread: Disturbing trend shipmates.

  1. #1
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    Default Disturbing trend shipmates.

    It is a bit disturbing to see that for the third month running we have had fewer than 100 posts on the Anchorage. Are we running short of ideas, and playing fewer games? I was also half expecting an influx of new ship painted models with the advent of the printed ships. This also seems to have dried up of late.

    Rob.
    Last edited by Bligh; 08-03-2022 at 12:57.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  2. #2
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    Ah, if I only had access to printed ships!

    That is disappointing. We'll just have to do better next month. I have a few adventures in the works.

  3. #3
    Admiral of the Fleet.
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    Good for you Dobbs. You actually supported us very well this month. I will try and get my last exploit at Dubrovnik written up over this week.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Perhaps we need an app released on Steam, IOS and Android to stimulate interest. There was one released for Wings of Glory a couple of weeks ago that seems to have bumped up numbers. Playing solo you can play a game in 3 minutes!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dobbs View Post
    Ah, if I only had access to printed ships!

    That is disappointing. We'll just have to do better next month. I have a few adventures in the works.
    If only Keith hadn't folded... a 3d printer and a "master license" for Henry's and Simon's portfolios to get distro running on this side of the Pond would make logistics immensely easier and coulda printed him money.
    --Diamondback
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    Historical Consultant to Ares, Wings and Sails - Unless otherwise noted, all comments are strictly Personal Opinion ONLY and not to be taken as official Company Policy.

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    Ahh yes, my apologies for my tardiness in this respect, I have a couple of projects that need writing up and yes I have plenty of hulls in the shipyard.
    But other worldly things have interfered, but a light on the horizon for me, from 1Oct goung into semi retirement so will have a lot more time to do these projects.

  7. #7
    Admiral of the Fleet.
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    Don't believe it Chris. Retirement is one of the most demanding periods of your life. You will wonder how you ever had time to go to work!
    Rob.
    Last edited by Bligh; 08-02-2022 at 12:14.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  8. #8
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    I forget whose Law it was, but there is one about "workload and expenses expand to fill available time and budget." Expect CINC-House to decide that your time is now HER time and consume it with a neverending Honey-Do List...
    --Diamondback
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    Historical Consultant to Ares, Wings and Sails - Unless otherwise noted, all comments are strictly Personal Opinion ONLY and not to be taken as official Company Policy.

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    In addition to the already mentioned, I have to add the newbie perspective. This is a somewhat expensive game. Starter sets are rarely available in Europe, and when they are, they are overpriced. Buying more ships is expensive, and the models aren't as beautiful and detailed as 3D printed or the Black Seas ones, if you are somewhat skilled in modelism (I'm not, but definetly want to take a shot at it). The maneuver deck system, even if it's the core of the game, it's also a burden, as buying a different ship to the ones you own means buying an official Ares mini or trying to get a spare deck (you can scan and print, but need an original).

    I'm looking at the alternative rules created by Dobbs and I'm liking them, but that makes me consider buying Black Seas as movement templates and rulers are parte of their system, and the ships are bigger. Is it worth to buy this game with close to no new content? Will I end up tired of the card system due to not being able to make any ship I want and being forced to buy at least an original for every type of ship? Most people are recommending me Black Seas and other games instead of this one, and I'm still doubtful. However, when you take into account the old players might be busier, and the community isn't really growing, you get why the trend is to go down.

    That's my un informed 2 cents, always up to debate. Also appreciate help with my question on the newbies forum.

  10. #10
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    Hi Felix,
    Ok a lot of what you are saying is correct, ref the ships.
    Yes you would need to buy at least one of each type of model to get a set of movement cards, this is the one real down factor I agree.
    No matter how much you may hope this will change, believe me it will not.
    Also we have found that the last two waves the ships are smaller than they should be, plenty of threads here that explains what has happened.
    You are also correct in that ships in Europe are hard to find, in Uk we still have a few outlets but prices are variable, afraid I got no idea about your countries availability.
    Now we diverge, I have bought the Black Seas starter set and have bought a couple of their other ships. In my humble the larger ships, frigates and above are nice agreed. Their brigs etc I think are not so good and do not look the part.
    Another down side, for me at least is the sails, which are paper, sorry what a load of duff. Acetate ratlines, again not the best in my opinion and they do not come with the correct amount only having enough for the lower masts.
    Ok Ares dont have any at all so you have to make them or by Langton models brass etched.
    For me I quite like the scale of 1/1000 the size is enough for me and the table size allows more manoeuvre also they are take out of the box and play, no painting required so you buy and ready to go. Black Seas need assembly and require painting before play.
    Cant say about Black Seas as never played but have read through the rule book.
    The main reason I chose Sails of Glory was I was looking for a set of rules I could play and not have to go through reams of tables or extra rules.
    Sails I was up and playing, the basic game within minutes. Attending many wargames shows in the uk over the past 10 years putting on Sails games we have had players complete novices, understanding the rules within 10 mins, a big plus. You can then add as many rules that you like.
    If you are looking for a detailed Napoleonic Naval game, Sails is not that game. But if you are looking for a set of rules that gives you the flavour of naval warfare in Napoleons time, for me it hits the spot. When you get to the advanced rules, plenty of detail and variations available.
    The combat system with the chits, although arbitrary , I like as it gives enough detail to show the combat deterioration and also has variation in the chits for misses and special damage. Again hits the spot for me.
    There now available a number of 3d hulls, if you have a printer which readily raises the number of ships you can have, bases , there is a source in the UK that I have found to get these made, it really is the manoeuvre decks that are the sticking point.
    One question you ask is is it worth buying the game.
    For me yes, I have a large number of ships with another 70 plus hulls printed ready for adding masts and sails. It is a fun game and personally I have been playing since it first apeared, yes I did the kickstarter, and still look forward to playing, the down side for me is I am not able to get to a club to play. Also it is a period that is not to everyones taste and lastly, I believe, people thing as it is wind based the rules are difficult. Every show we have attended I have never yet had anyone say the game was bad, may not be to the players taste but all say they enjoyed playing, so that is a big plus.
    Have you played Black Seas and compare the enjoyment to Sails of Glory?
    To help with the rules in our files section you can download a player aide I made which gives a sequence of play with rule book pages annotated. If you cant find drop me a pm.
    Apologies for the tirade, but I am a fan of Sails of Glory.
    If I can help with any question feel free to contact me.
    Enjoy

  11. #11
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    My system of play allows you to get two ships cards out of one pack Felix. Each pack has two of each card excepting the taken aback and broken mast cards. They are easy to duplicate but I just hold one set of that particulsr card in a central pool to be used by players if needed. The rest of the pack I split in half so I get two packs of one of each movement cards. Then I add a card which says hold your course. If you wish to play two of the same cards after each other the second one is the hold your course card, and you simply play that with the card you put down last again.

    Of course this also means that it halves the number of cards you need to go through to find the one you want to play and also thus speeds up the game.

    Here is an example of my extra card. Feel free to use it if you wish.



    Rob.
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    Last edited by Bligh; 08-03-2022 at 13:25.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    I can't say about noneof the games, as I have played neither. However, I've downloaded both rulebooks and I'll read them over to see exactly where the differences are. I thought Black Seas was simpler, but I have learnt that it has too different advanced rules that you can introduce gradually. I can say I hold no grudge against the chits/cards system, it's a little bit like rolling dice but there is no need to check anything for special damage.

    I'm getting a few resin printed planes (I don't have a printer) soon, if I find good 3D models I must say I prefer those over the Black Seas style of assemblable minis, that for sure. The major drawback is the price and availability, I think. Also, there are people that prefer to be able to manage groups of ships, even if it's not fleets.

    I'm being recommended by lots of people Black Seas, Id love someone to point the advantages of one system over the other, not taking into account the minis.

  13. #13
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    Although I have not played Black Seas, I have played their other naval game for coastal actions, Cruel Seas, although I enjoyed the few games I played its not a game I have gone back to due mainly to keep looking up the charts for damage, this is not to say Black Seas is too difficult. I think Sails is a simpler system, except for the delayed actions, but these are not difficult either if you use the correct sequence. But this may well be due to my familiarity with Sails and less so with Black Seas, pity you are not here in UK so we could run you through a few games.
    Try having a read through the threads on some of the After Action Reports to see games in play

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    I have been thinking about this. My little gaming group of usually four people do not play Sails much at all mainly because it takes too long to get through a game. We meet at 7.30pm and like to be finished by 9pm at the latest so any game that runs for more than 90 minutes is not good for us. I guess I need to look at alternative rules or ones that can be time controlled. Wings of Glory for us is the best game because it is usually fast and furious. I also have Oak and Iron which in some ways I prefer but a game of that usually takes around 3 hours.

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    I like SoG because I feel that it does a good job of recreating the feeling of sailing on a tabletop. Of all the commercially available games, I think it does that the best. I haven't played the other games, but in perusing their rules, they haven't gripped me the same.

    I do agree that SoG can easily eat up an afternoon, but I like the ponderous build to a climax and plan for the time. If I want to game and am short on time I reach for a different game or make do with the fighting the opening exchanges. Truth be told, I've fought a fair number of battles that were called just after the first bloody nose, and found them very satisfying.

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    I have to say that for me there are two things that I want out of a game. I want beautiful models and a good sailing feeling of the game.

    To me the black sea ships look bad. I first saw the brig and frigate set, and having sailed brigs I didn't really get into the miniatures. They have the wrong shape of the hull and are cartoony with oversized ship's names and figureheads. The paper sails makes my blood boil. I have even had discussions with Henry about his 3D printing sails. I really hate the 2D look of sails. When you put a piece of fabric into the wind it billows. It forms a double curved surface. You can never replicate that with paper or etched metal sheets (unless you use a mushroom smithing anvil thing). Thankfully Simon's 3D printable sails set is good. The size may be a problem if you want to play big battles but may fit small one on one frigate action quite well.

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    Honestly, I've never played a game of Sails of Glory that I didn't thoroughly enjoy. It doesn't matter if I win or lose, I always have fun, and that makes it one of my favorite games, even if it's not as popular as I think it ought to be.

  18. #18
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    If Jonas and Dobbs with real sailing experience under their belts think that the feel of Sails of Glory is better then I am happy with my own assessment of the game.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  19. #19

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    I've - again - dropped off the radar screen (I know that's a bit anachronistic for the age of sail), but I have been doing a lot of naval skirmish stuff (as mentioned in the August Workbench post). I will try to get my last 2015 Campaign AAR done. I would like to wrap that up and get onto the 2016 scenarios. Plus I need to get back to building my 17th century ships which I will when the official Mad for War rules are published - soon we're promised.

    As for lessening interest - that's what happens when a manufacturer stops supporting the game. It can't be changed. As for a "digital" version, well, I have mixed feelings about that. It's good in that it's easy for someone to get into the game and get a game played. However, it's bad in that it's easy to get into the game (i.e., a player has very little invested in it) plus it seems to me that "digital" games consume far more time than one realizes which is the addiction factor. But people can do as they please. My worry is that it will suck people away from the tabletop side. Slitherine has had tabletop and digital versions of games and it never seemed to me that people went from digital to tabletop. FYI - I was hooked to an online 24/7 medieval combat game with in game purchases. I saw where that was going and quit. But that's just my perspective - others will have different ones.

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