Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: Invincible - how the French gave the world the 74

  1. #1
    1st Lieutenant
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Washington
    Log Entries
    1,331
    Blog Entries
    2
    Name
    Vol

    Default Invincible - how the French gave the world the 74

    Invincible - how the French gave the world the 74

    This is a pretty interesting story.

    https://www.philipkallan.com/single-...e-world-the-74

  2. #2
    Able Seaman
    UK

    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    South West
    Log Entries
    79
    Name
    David

    Default

    Well.. not really. The British were already using the 'common' 74 - with the 32pdr main battery and 18pdr upper deck, with 9pdrs on the castles*. The Invincible was larger - by around 5ft, than this 'common' 74, and although the British did build one large 74 to that design (with British scantlings) - the Triumph - which they gave an increased upper battery of 24pdrs to - they continued to build the smaller 74s nearly exclusively throughout the next 70 years. The middling and large 74s, and the '80s' of the larger French pattern, were relatively scarce (though fairly important, being nearly as powerful as the 90/98 gun ships). The manning requirement of the larger 74s were 100 men more than those of the small classes - while the increase in throw weight didn't make up enough for the fewer ships which could be manned well.

    The first British 74, was the Culloden, which was essentially a reduced '80', and was in construction in 1744 - 3 years before the Invincible was captured, and had been ordered even before that ship was launched.
    The British ship Namur, present in the action was also another '74' this one a razeed 90 gunner, with the same armament and similar size to the common 74 the British used (around 4 ft smaller than the most common patterns).
    It is certainly not supportable that the British were unaware of the '74' type if they took one into the action in which they "discovered" the type.

  3. #3
    Comptroller of the Navy Board
    Captain
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    WA
    Log Entries
    4,180
    Name
    [RESTRICTED]

    Default

    Actually, most of the Common 74s do trace their roots to Invincible. Slade started by scaling down the proportions to create Dublin, then successively iterated on it through the Hero, Hercules, Bellona, Arrogant, Elizabeth, Edgar and Culloden classes. Similarly, Triumph/Valiant were later evolved into the stretched Kent/Ajax, which in turn the Russians used as the basis for one of their last Napoleonic 74 designs, the Triokh Sviatitelei class IIRC.

    Additionally, the design was further scaled down into the St. Albans 64's, and enlarged with a third gundeck to create Victory.

    There were unrelated competitive designs b other designers, but you still have to admit that the combination of Pierre Morineau's hullform and Thomas Slade's structural engineering produced one hell of a family tree.
    --Diamondback
    PMH, SME, TLA, BBB
    Historical Consultant to Ares, Wings and Sails - Unless otherwise noted, all comments are strictly Personal Opinion ONLY and not to be taken as official Company Policy.

  4. #4
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    21,150
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Interesting discussion gentlemen. You have raised some very good points about the article, and the reasons for not all 74s being equal in fighting and sailing qualities.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  5. #5
    Comptroller of the Navy Board
    Captain
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    WA
    Log Entries
    4,180
    Name
    [RESTRICTED]

    Default

    It's also interesting to note that most of the "second generation" 74's saw a similar development process starting with a captured one-off--1761 Courageux and the resulting marriages of French hullform to British scantlings mixed across Common, Middling and Large including the Forty Thieves.
    --Diamondback
    PMH, SME, TLA, BBB
    Historical Consultant to Ares, Wings and Sails - Unless otherwise noted, all comments are strictly Personal Opinion ONLY and not to be taken as official Company Policy.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •