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Thread: What would be the best sculpts for the Spanish at Trafalgar

  1. #1
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    Default What would be the best sculpts for the Spanish at Trafalgar

    Hi going to put on a club game with some of the British Lee Column First (6) breaking the line at Trafalgar. My Question is what are the best sculpts to use for Monarca 74 3rd rate Bahama 74 3rd rate and Montanes 74 3rd rate you knowledgeable people are sure to point me in the right direction can only do the 6 british vs 8 french spanish and a couple of french 5th rates as think this is the most ships to be able to get a result in the 1 day at the club 9am till packed away at 5pm with 4 players may be 5

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    Right now there ARE no good Spanish sculpts. Meregildos is badly undersize, and Bahama is both badly undersize and only right in shape for ONE ship.

    #D00dY3rScr00d

    If you're willing to go aftermarket, either Henry Turner or Simon Mann both have Purisima Concepcion/San Jose models that are head and shoulders better than the official sculpt, and if memory serves they both have correctly sized Spanish 74's and 80's.

    Let me know if this link doesn't work and I'll copy-paste its data. https://sailsofglory.org/showthread....ting-Trafalgar
    --Diamondback
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    If you can go 3D print there are several good prints by Simon Mann and Henry Turner.

    I think Simon’s made four different Spanish 74s (San Joaquin, San Juan Nepomuceno, San Ildefonso, Montańes) and at least three 112 gun first rates (Mereguildos, San José, Purisima Concepcion) and then there’s Santissima…

    I’m still waiting for the Bahama and Rayo (100 gun rebuild) to have all the Spanish for Trafalgar. Simon’s working on them.

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    Hi, yes I've been concentrating on Spanish ships for the last while. I currently have completed the following and just have the Rayo and Bahama to release.

    Santisima Trinidad
    - original 1769 112 gun
    - 130+ gun 1795 4 deck refit

    Purisima Concepción 112 gun
    - original 1779
    - post 1791 refit

    San Jose/Josef 112 gun
    - original 1783
    - british post 1797 refit

    Santa Ana class 112 gun

    Rayo (complete, just needs releasing)
    - original 80 gun hull
    - 1804 100 gun refit

    San Ildefonso / Montanes classes 74/80 gun
    - San Ildefonso class hull
    - Montanes class hull

    San Joaquin class 74 gun

    San Juan Nepomuceno class 74 gun

    Bahama class 74 gun (complete, just needs releasing)

    San Fulgencio class 64 gun

    Mahonesa class 34 gun


    All available here:
    https://www.wargaming3d.com/vendor/simon-mann/
    Last edited by T1ckL35; 11-03-2021 at 05:15.

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    This is a very impressive list. With it (for some of them I use Henry’s though) I will have all necessary models to have a Spanish fleet for both St Cape Vincent (with a few too modern ships thrown in to fill the ranks) and Trafalgar.

  6. #6
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    Just had a look at his US Constellation and it is just what I need to augment my American Fleet. Can anyone out there reduce that to 1000 scale? Are sails included with Simon's ships I know it has been mentioned but I had Doncaster on my mind at the time and have just forgotten quite who is doing what in these lines of ships now.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Sails aren’t included in the files when you buy a hull, but there is a free set made by both Henry and Simon. They both have a set that you have to buy though. I’m not fond of any of them except Simon’s set for Black Sails. It’s $2. We’ll worth it. I have suggested scalings for them to fit in well with Sails of Glory somewhere here on the forum.

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    I had a feeling I had seen that somewhere Jonas.
    I will have another explore as soon as I get time.
    Thanks.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Revisiting this from Goodwin's commentary in The Ships of Trafalgar:

    San Agustin and San Francisco de Asis: "built to the lines of San Juan Nepomuceno."
    Bahama: "lines and specs of Bahama and San Leandro follow those of the San Ildefonso class."
    San Justo: "Based on Ildefonso's lines... In many respects Bahama was a sister."
    Montanez group (Montanez, Monarca, Neptuno, Argonauta): "lines were in fact an upgraded version of Landa's San Ildefonso of 1785."

    Here Goodwin confuses me, how could Bahama/San Leandro/San Justo be based on the design of a ship built AFTER they were? He also suggests that while built as a 64, San Leandro was the size of a 74 and may have been upgraded by having the extra ports cut before Trafalgar.

    This would again seem to support my old premise of "use existing Spanish 74 for San Justo, Bahama, Ildefonso and Montanez; cut new sculpt for Nepomuceno's generation."
    --Diamondback
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    Some more interesting points come out here DB. Just goes to show that we should not take these "Experts" at face value, but question their statements and do some exploration of our own.
    Thanks for your continued work on the Spanish ships.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  11. #11
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    San Leandro is a 64, compared to the remainder nominal 74s.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lieste View Post
    San Leandro is a 64, compared to the remainder nominal 74s.
    SL was *built* as a 64 as was Bahama; Goodwin (who has a certain expertise as the guy responsible for Victory's preservation for many years) notes that there are questions about if she got the same kind of "rebuild and up-gun" as Bahama. San Leandro and her two sisters were supposedly built as scaledowns on a 49/52 ratio from the Ildefonso design, but Goodwin seems to have SL ending her life at around 53m LGD in the same size class as her "bigger" relatives.

    I wish there were a way I could get copies of Goodwin's drawings in digital format at a known scale so I could line things up side by side for comparison...
    --Diamondback
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    Historical Consultant to Ares, Wings and Sails - Unless otherwise noted, all comments are strictly Personal Opinion ONLY and not to be taken as official Company Policy.

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