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Thread: There's a New 3D Printer in the Shipyard

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    Default There's a New 3D Printer in the Shipyard

    My new Creality Ender 5 Pro 3D printer arrived. It went together quickly and the cable wiring plugins were a cinch!

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    And my first two ships on the printer. The gray is at standard quality and the black is at super quality. Sliced with the Ultimaker Cura free program. These are both Henry's 40 gun Swedish Bellona class frigate Venus. There really wasn't much noticeable difference except for the hull sides and a small bit of improvement in the stern galleries. Overall I am quite pleased!

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    Looking good Vol.
    Are those the 1:700 version?
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Yes, they are 1/700. All of Henry's FDM STL files in the ZIP folders I bought from Wargaming3D are 1/700. The other 1/700, 1/1000 & 1/1200 files are all for resin printing.

    That being said, the Cura slicing program allows you to increase or decreasr the object scale by percentage. I am not sure yet what percentage to reduce from 100 to get 1/1000 or 1/1200 scale, or the other way for 1/600 & 1/500 scales.

    While not being as smooth as the resin, I am quite happy with the PLA prints. With my old fumble fingers I dropped one of the ships and it bounced off a hard floor. If it had been resin it would have extensive damage. But being plastic, there wasn't a scratch. Yes, very happy.
    Last edited by Volunteer; 03-26-2021 at 08:51.

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    Very impressive to be up and running that quickly, Vol. Excellent series of photos as well. Thanks for sharing.
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmoss View Post
    Very impressive to be up and running that quickly, Vol. Excellent series of photos as well. Thanks for sharing.
    Thanks Jim, and thank you for the rep points. I am pretty shocked myself. But after a few YouTube videos I was up and running. Simon Mann, Henry Turner and Pete Lowe have been offering good advice as well. My model backlog was bad before. It's going to be epic now!

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    Nice! I may have to buy licenses for Henry's models and ask you about print-for-hire, if you're game and within reach to arrange a handoff...
    --Diamondback
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    Well after six hours of aborts today. I am making no commitments at the present time. I finally got a print to stay put long enough to finish, but it was not the way I wanted. Very frustrating. There was also an issue with the stem detail for some reason I don't fathom at the moment. When I can consistently produce decent prints I will open for business.

    One more thing to consider, Henry only provides the FDM STL files in 1/700. The 1/1000 STL files can only be printed in resin, which can't be done on this machine. The Cura slicer program allows me to shrink or enlarge by percentages. Right now I don't know how much reduction in percentage would get me a 1/1000 print from a 1/700 original.

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    Vol, if my math is right a 1/700 at 70% yields 1/1000. The conversion we used on rescaling draught scan for Ares was "multiply by known current scale then divide by target scale."

    Bear in mind it took three tries to beat Pre-Calc through my thick skull... math is why I abandoned further Business degrees to become a History major.
    --Diamondback
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    I was thinking about 70 but wasn't positive. I will have to try one and see how it comes out, if I can ever get the damn things to stick to the mat!
    So 1/1200 would be around 58%, cool

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    Is there some step you might have missed about setting up the "raft" to print the model on? Or is there some prep that needs doing on the mat before print?

    Just spitballing here... you'd be surprised by how many times computer problems have been solved by "Did you turn it on?"
    --Diamondback
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    Well I've tried increasing the bed temp, decreasing the bed temp, increasing and decreasing the nozzle temp. I have tried using a brim and raft for better adhesion. As suggested by many, I have used a small amount of glue stick, then increasing amounts of glue stick. Another suggestion was to scrub the mat with alcohol, tried that. This morning an experienced printer suggested hair spray so I will try that today

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    I solved it! I increased the height and width of the initial layer and increased the width of the brim lines to .4. I also reduced the print speed to 45% for the first two layers and the cooling fan speed as well. Once the brim and first two layers were down the speeds were increased. It has worked perfectly for three successive prints now and I am having some minor difficult getting the print separated from the mat! Wonderful!

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    Well done Vol.
    When printers first came out, I was seconded on a weeks course to learn how to print. We never got past the designing stage in that time and the technician did all the manufacturing part. All we did was design a simple goblet shape to print. Things have moved on a lot since then. It was a year later before the school got its first machine and as I was about to retire I never actually got to use it.
    Now I have forgotten all that I was shown, but no doubt it is all obsolete now anyway.
    I am very impressed how quickly you have got set up and running from scratch.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Glad you got it figured out Vol. The results look very good. As for separating the print from the plate I've seen one YouTube video showing the use of wide putty knives with a very sharp edges. The same video also described it as the most dangerous aspect of 3D printing. Be careful!
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

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    Oh It really isn't that difficult. Actually I love it, compared to having them pop loose in mid-print cycle! So I am in business now. It is a chill and rainy day today and I am thinking about trying Diamondback's 70% reduction to produce a 1/1000 scale version of one of the files. Any requests?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    Well done Vol.
    When printers first came out, I was seconded on a weeks course to learn how to print. We never got past the designing stage in that time and the technician did all the manufacturing part. All we did was design a simple goblet shape to print. Things have moved on a lot since then. It was a year later before the school got its first machine and as I was about to retire I never actually got to use it.
    Now I have forgotten all that I was shown, but no doubt it is all obsolete now anyway.
    I am very impressed how quickly you have got set up and running from scratch.
    Haha, thanks Rob! I am pretty impressed with myself as well! Shocked really. I was afraid this old brain just couldn't pick up a new tech like it used to during my working years. Very nice to know I still have it!

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    Diamondback, I have just sent enquiries to both Henry and Simon asking what they would require for me to produce 1/1000 scale ships for you. I will keep you informed of there answers.

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    Diamondback,
    Some discouraging feedback from Henry. Here is what he says:
    "
    Regarding 70% prints, you'll want to make sure Diamondback understands that not all the details might come out - given that the FDM sculpts have been designed to print at 1/700, with the thinnest parts being 0.4mm (to match standard FDM nozzles), a 70% print might have some issues (you can check to see what greys out in the Cura Slicer when you run a preview)"

    So it is likely not going to work.

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    My report on the attempt to print a 1/1000 scale print from a 1/700 scale FDM STL file:
    Henry is right. Much of the detail is distorted. The stem, galleries and quarter deck in particular.
    This is the 74 gun Elizabeth class

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    But the 70% was perfect. The ship is exactly 1/1000

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    I figured that for Sails-type stuff, a better bet would be to work up from 1/1200 than down from 1/700, or 120%. Thanks for reaching out, and for trying the experiment. :)

    How's it compare to Wave 1 Bellonas? The Elizabeth should be right around the same size or a fraction of a millimeter longer and beamier (read: "virtually indistinguishable in size"); visible differences should be a bluffer bow and more vertical stern.
    --Diamondback
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    At the Elizabeth class' 168 ft, it came out exactly 2.016 inches at the gundeck. That is right on 1/1000 scale. Are the wave one Bellonas that accurate?

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    Good question, mine are in storage and we weren't able to precisely locate LD ends to measure. Bellona should be identical deck length at 168'0", possibly a skosh longer o/a if the stern gallery is less vertical as Winfield suggests.

    Bellona above, Elizabeth below

    Last edited by Diamondback; 03-28-2021 at 21:03.
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    Here are two Elizabeths thst just came off at 1/700. Henry hsd one file name "with protrusions" s the other without, so I printed both together. I am not sure what protrusions the file title is referring to. They took 5 and a half hours to print and are perfect!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Volunteer View Post
    My report on the attempt to print a 1/1000 scale print from a 1/700 scale FDM STL file:
    Henry is right. Much of the detail is distorted. The stem, galleries and quarter deck in particular.
    This is the 74 gun Elizabeth class


    But the 70% was perfect. The ship is exactly 1/1000
    I wonder how the downscaling would work with a resin file? I know Henry supplied most of the KS ships in 1/1000 already, but for a different sculpt.

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    I would certainly be interested in getting some of his Dutch Fleet ships in 1000 th scale.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    All hope is not lost. I am being told that the reason the detail is lost is that the stock extruder nozzle is too large for the finer detail at smaller scales. 1/700 is the lower limit for the stock 0.4MM nozzle. I just ordered two nozzle 10-packs at 0.3MM and 0.2MM. Then I will try again.

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    I haven't received the smaller nozzles yet, maybe today they will be at the P.O. box.
    Here are three of Henry's Russians: a 66-gun, the 92-gu St Pavel, and a 100-gun

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    The 'steps' on flat-ish decks can be made less obvious by printing the hulls at 45 or 90 degrees (the former works quite well but leaves a touch of roughness on wales along the entire length, but minimises discrete 'stepping'), the latter gives a very clean appearance, but you need to cut off the bow or stern (or split mid-ships somewhere convenient) and print it separately for a clean result. Ideally you don't want significant detail "down" on supported surfaces, or large *almost* flat areas on the top. Flat is fine, and a reasonable angle is okay, but where the difference between layers is on the order of the scale of your details it ruins the effect.

    Less of an issue for larger models, where the detail is big compared to layers, more of an issue with smaller models.

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    Deck turned out better but the quarter deck rails were screwed up. Floppy with no stiles at all for support.

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    I'm still impressed that you have got this good so quickly Vol. I am sure you will iron out the baggy wrinkles soon.

    Rob.
    Last edited by Bligh; 04-10-2021 at 01:21.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lieste View Post
    The 'steps' on flat-ish decks can be made less obvious by printing the hulls at 45 or 90 degrees (the former works quite well but leaves a touch of roughness on wales along the entire length, but minimises discrete 'stepping'), the latter gives a very clean appearance, but you need to cut off the bow or stern (or split mid-ships somewhere convenient) and print it separately for a clean result. Ideally you don't want significant detail "down" on supported surfaces, or large *almost* flat areas on the top. Flat is fine, and a reasonable angle is okay, but where the difference between layers is on the order of the scale of your details it ruins the effect.

    Less of an issue for larger models, where the detail is big compared to layers, more of an issue with smaller models.
    Since some ships were cut and stretched fullsize, for them I'd suggest designers "cut" the model where the original was split and also offer a component for the "plug" so you have both pre- and post-stretch versions from one STL. IIRC London-class HMS Prince was one of these, as was basically the Royal Sovereign-Ville de Paris-Hibernia lineage. (Albeit these three were stretched at the Drawing phase, the older ship never being rebuilt up to her new longer sister's spec.)
    --Diamondback
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lieste View Post
    The 'steps' on flat-ish decks can be made less obvious by printing the hulls at 45 or 90 degrees (the former works quite well but leaves a touch of roughness on wales along the entire length, but minimises discrete 'stepping'), the latter gives a very clean appearance, but you need to cut off the bow or stern (or split mid-ships somewhere convenient) and print it separately for a clean result. Ideally you don't want significant detail "down" on supported surfaces, or large *almost* flat areas on the top. Flat is fine, and a reasonable angle is okay, but where the difference between layers is on the order of the scale of your details it ruins the effect.

    Less of an issue for larger models, where the detail is big compared to layers, more of an issue with smaller models.
    Do you think this is necessary for resin printers as well? If I am correct these photos are FDM prints. Have not yet received my printer but I am going with resin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeRuyter View Post
    Do you think this is necessary for resin printers as well? If I am correct these photos are FDM prints. Have not yet received my printer but I am going with resin.
    Resin prints have less issues with overhangs, as long as the lowest point is supported, and the print is minimally stable, but you need to minimise large changes in area in contact with the screen.

    This often means printing with a roughly 45 degree (ish) tilt possibly with some cross slope too, to make increases in area gradual.

    Horizontal resolution and vertical resolution are so much higher than it doesn't matter for surface finish to the same degree. IMO.

    (Note I know the general principles, but only own an FDM printer, so don't have specific recommendations for SLA/Resin from an experience/experimentation perspective)

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    I print my ships at 15 degree angle and with hand placed supports. I put supports at the bow, cat heads and lanterns, no other is needed.

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    By the way, if you got an Anycubic Photon Mono, there’s a firmware upgrade to enable anti-aliasing.
    That will make the prints even smother.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexaS View Post
    By the way, if you got an Anycubic Photon Mono, there’s a firmware upgrade to enable anti-aliasing.
    That will make the prints even smother.
    Good to know thanks.

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