Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: AWI Espionage - The Theft of British Naval Signals in 1781

  1. #1

    Default AWI Espionage - The Theft of British Naval Signals in 1781

    I recently came across this article regarding two missions to obtain copies of British Naval Signals in 1781 by the Americans to give to Comte de Grasse :

    https://allthingsliberty.com/2021/01...sions-of-1781/

  2. #2
    Stats Committee
    Master & Commander
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Maryland
    Log Entries
    1,987
    Blog Entries
    13
    Name
    Dobbs

    Default

    That's pretty darned fun reading! James Bond in a tricorn hat.

  3. #3
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    22,272
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Thanks for uncovering that insightful article Anthony. It just shows that the possession of signal books was not always as pivotal to actions as some fiction writers would have us believe. With the frequent changes and additions made by commanders on the various stations they could obviously prove as confusing as they could be useful to friend and foe alike. No wonder Nelson used his universal signal to engage the enemy more closely.

    Rob.
    Last edited by Bligh; 07-03-2021 at 04:16.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  4. #4
    Midshipman
    UK

    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    North Derbyshire
    Log Entries
    494
    Name
    John

    Default

    Thanks for the link Antony, if I understood it correctly I'm amazed that the signal books were printed and then offered, presumably for sale, by an advert in a newspaper to British Ships Captains. I would have expected them to be privately printed and with a restricted issue list.
    Maybe I did missunderstand.
    Cheers

  5. #5
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    22,272
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    The ships private number and recognition code for the day was of greater importance to establish the bone fides of
    another ship than the instruction signal it may have been flying John. If an Admiral sent a signal to the Fleet once action was joined, it was probably too late for the enemy Admiral to react without throwing his ships into chaos even if he had the signal book. Unless it was an encounter battle, most Admirals had already outlined their plans to the captains under them, and as Nelson said, a standing rule of his was that when circumstances changed, any ship who closely engaged the nearest enemy could not be doing wrong. Nevertheless, it seems astounding in today's world that such important information was so easily obtainable.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  6. #6
    Comptroller of the Navy Board
    Captain
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    WA
    Log Entries
    4,298
    Name
    [RESTRICTED]

    Default

    Knowing what the other guy's gonna do doesn't do a lot of good if you don't know in time, or have the ability, to do something about it.

    I'd be tempted to house-rule Stolen Signals as:

    STOLEN SIGNALS: Your opponent must play his maneuver cards for the ships in his fleet before you play yours. After your opponent plays his maneuver cards, you may replace the card AFTER the one you're about to play with another card of your choice for each of your ships.

    Alternatively, just relabel the Intuitive Captain card ability so you can have both in play. Which brings up an idea about Ability Decks and rules therefore I'd like to see...

    Crew Decks: Abilities persistent with the ship until end of game.
    Captain Decks: If Captain is killed, all Captain abilities for that ship are lost. New Captain appointed brings new Captain abilites, but they may not have more than 50% of the same abilities set as the previous Captain for that ship.
    (new) Admiral Decks: Admiral abilities affect every ship in your fleet. If Admiral is killed, all Admiral bonuses and abilities are lost. Basically same as captain.
    Possible: in-between Commodore Deck, conveying bonuses only to that ship and a squadron of 3-4 designated others within proximity. If Commodore is killed, a Captain may step up to Commodore, but both his existing Captain and any gained Commodore abilities get doubled cooldown between uses.
    --Diamondback
    PMH, SME, TLA, BBB
    Historical Consultant to Ares, Wings and Sails - Unless otherwise noted, all comments are strictly Personal Opinion ONLY and not to be taken as official Company Policy.

  7. #7
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    22,272
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Interesting idea DB. Very reminicient of some Wargames I have read, Maybe we could also extend a radius of influence rule,such as over the horizon do what you like sort of thing?

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  8. #8
    Comptroller of the Navy Board
    Captain
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    WA
    Log Entries
    4,298
    Name
    [RESTRICTED]

    Default

    To refine my prior, if a Squadron Commodore steps up to replace a fallen Fleet Admiral, same cooldown penalty--let's make it a multiplier of +1x for each command level a given leader is having to work at simultaneously.

    Captain solely directing one ship or Admiral solely directing a fleet: Standard Cooldown
    Captain or Admiral acting as Commodore in addition to regular duties, or Commodore same either way: Double Cooldown
    Acting as all three roles simultaneously: Triple Cooldown

    I would suggest that Commodore or similar Flotilla/Small Squadron Leader abilities gain a 1-card cooldown for each ship under that "Commander Ability's" effects, up to a maximum of six. Maybe Admiral abilities only affect his own squadron that turn, the next squadrons out the turn after that, and then any further outlying squadrons the turn after that. (Representing delays of messenger ships relaying the signals.)
    --Diamondback
    PMH, SME, TLA, BBB
    Historical Consultant to Ares, Wings and Sails - Unless otherwise noted, all comments are strictly Personal Opinion ONLY and not to be taken as official Company Policy.

  9. #9
    Stats Committee
    Captain
    Sweden

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Linköping
    Log Entries
    3,943
    Blog Entries
    6
    Name
    Jonas

    Default

    I have to say that signals are never that precise. You never know what an enemy’s ships exact maneuver will be just because Nelson’s raised “Engage the enemy more closely” that he basically could have nailed to the missen.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •