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Thread: 3D Ship Files / Kickstarter

  1. #251
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    Mine arrived in fine fettle Henry. Thank you for your very prompt delivery. You will find mine in post 110 on the thread " What's on your workbench for March?"
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  2. #252
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    Nothing today at the post office.

  3. #253

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    Ships arrived today in excellent condition. No broken cat heads, lanterns or cannons. I would advise others to take your time unboxing as some of the masts did slip down in the box and might have been missed amongst the packing material. It is amazing to see how small 1/1000 is when you've been working on 1/700 ships for some time. I did not take close ups of all the ships. Thanks Henry!
    Attached Images Attached Images      
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

  4. #254
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    Looking good Jim.

    I found knocking out the props under the ships almost as addictive as popping bubble wrap. Shows how much lockdown has brought us back to the simple pleasures in life.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  5. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    Looking good Jim.

    I found knocking out the props under the ships almost as addictive as popping bubble wrap.

    Rob.
    Now I really hope mine are here on Monday!

  6. #256
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    Still trying, and dismally failing, to paint mine, just not coming out right, not sure how these models, nice as they are willtake to game handling.
    I dont think I would use them at ashow but keep for a home game where its known to take care.

  7. #257

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capn Duff View Post
    Still trying, and dismally failing, to paint mine, just not coming out right, not sure how these models, nice as they are willtake to game handling.
    I dont think I would use them at ashow but keep for a home game where its known to take care.
    I would have to agree. Having handled them from out of the box to the table for some photos they are feeling pretty delicate, and the masts even more so. As for painting, etc., I'm not sure when I'll be ready to tackle that?
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

  8. #258

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    Looking good Jim.

    I found knocking out the props under the ships almost as addictive as popping bubble wrap. Shows how much lockdown has brought us back to the simple pleasures in life.

    Rob.
    Haven't got to that stage yet, but from what you've said it does sound like some lockdown fun.
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

  9. #259
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    I was trying very carefully to remove the struts with a craft knife and worked all around the edges. Once that was done I gingerly started on the second row in when I heard this cracking sound and several broke at once. That is where it gets easy as you can just rip through the rest with your knife and they break off at the root of the hull like scything througu the jungle. That is the very satisfying part.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  10. #260
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    Good to know, I had planned to use sprue nippers.
    --Diamondback
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  11. #261
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    I generally try to (holding just the "base"), bend the piece and see if everything will just "pop" off.


    If it's not forthcoming, I work at the supports with some very fine clippers and keep retrying.



    The supports' individual connections aren't strong, the ship's only hold on by the sheer volume of supports.

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    The squadron has arrived safe and sound. The trans-Atlantic crossing has been weathered with only one dog-eared cathead, suffered by San Jose' (easily fixed with a piece of styrene). The ships are as beautiful as I had hoped!

    One question; after breaking off the base, the underside of the boats seem gooey. How do I de-goo-ify?

  13. #263
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    I usually wash of all plastic moulded models in warm water with washing up detergent Dobbs.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    It seems that rubbing alcohol removes the goo.

  15. #265
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    I will bear that in mind Dobbs. I think it is what I know as surgical spirit.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    I didn't realize there was any "goo" on printed models. None of the resin or FDM hulls I have received have had any problems taking paint, unlike models coming out of molds with soapy mold-release residue still on them. I just spray primed all of Henry's resin ships.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dobbs View Post
    Name:  20210405_144037.jpg
Views: 90
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    The squadron has arrived safe and sound. The trans-Atlantic crossing has been weathered with only one dog-eared cathead, suffered by San Jose' (easily fixed with a piece of styrene). The ships are as beautiful as I had hoped!

    One question; after breaking off the base, the underside of the boats seem gooey. How do I de-goo-ify?
    These look like construction hulks on timber supports!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Volunteer View Post
    I didn't realize there was any "goo" on printed models. None of the resin or FDM hulls I have received have had any problems taking paint, unlike models coming out of molds with soapy mold-release residue still on them. I just spray primed all of Henry's resin ships.
    It is uncured resin, where UV light couldn't get to it, due to the coverage of supports and hull, and where alcohol baths didn't have the agitation to disturb partially cooked resin.
    You can either wash it away with more alcohol, or cure it by leaving the soft part exposed to daylight, and avoid touching it to leave finger prints if in an area which can show.

    There is no mould release agent, which is why plastic parts are usually greasy and don't take paint.

    Some FDM filaments (e.g. Nylon) self lubricate during printing and in their life, so cannot be painted effectively, but PLA is quite easy to paint.

  19. #269

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lieste View Post
    It is uncured resin, where UV light couldn't get to it, due to the coverage of supports and hull, and where alcohol baths didn't have the agitation to disturb partially cooked resin.
    You can either wash it away with more alcohol, or cure it by leaving the soft part exposed to daylight, and avoid touching it to leave finger prints if in an area which can show.

    There is no mould release agent, which is why plastic parts are usually greasy and don't take paint.

    Some FDM filaments (e.g. Nylon) self lubricate during printing and in their life, so cannot be painted effectively, but PLA is quite easy to paint.
    It is my understanding that resin is very toxic. Is the 'uncured' resin residue also as toxic? Before I handle these models any further I'd like to be clear on that? Thanks in advance.
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

  20. #270
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    Very is probably a stretch. Treat it as you would CA glue or enamel thinners. Don't drink it, wear gloves if you can't handle it without getting it on you, ventilation is good.

    Once cured it is just plastic. One primed it is painted plastic and absolutely innocuous.

    Perhaps something to watch for when receiving unpainted and still supported models though, as there may be some 'live' resin on the lower surfaces and inside. A second cleaning and curing of the 'obscured' areas is probably a good idea, if for no other reasons than for durability and a resiliant primer coating.

  21. #271
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    Thanks for that information David and Jim.
    I am sure it will help a lot of us to be more aware of the potential dangers.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  22. #272
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    Thanks for all of the information, David. It's very interesting. This is all new to me. I'm glad I guessed right on the alcohol. The uncured plastic also had quite the bouquet!

    To make sure I wouldn't damage anything, rinsed my least favorite model down with alchohol, then washed it with warm soapy water just to cover all my bases. Thanks, Rob!
    Last edited by Dobbs; 04-06-2021 at 18:22.

  23. #273
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    Now, what kind of glue should I use? I tried model styrene cement and it just bounced off.

  24. #274
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    CA or epoxy. For most of the resins and Filaments.


    You can also glue some times of plastic with their suitable solvent, but this is more useful for FDM (and then not really for PLA, as it's solvents are unpleasant). ABS is soluble in Acetone, which can be used as a cement (with or without dissolved ABS as a filler).

    You obviously should test on your waste material first to ensure it will bond, and not dissolve the material too aggressively if trying out other options. And ventilation for any volatiles/bonding fumes.

    You have a resin, rather than a filament, just adding the information on ABS bonding as it might be useful/relevant for other uses.

  25. #275
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    We used a Chloroform based glue for Acrylics in the old days, and it welded parts together like Polystyrene cement does to Revel and Airfix model ships. You do need to use masks and ventilate too, or when you finally wake up, if you ever do, you have a cracker of a headache. I would think it is not allowed these days.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  26. #276

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lieste View Post
    Very is probably a stretch. Treat it as you would CA glue or enamel thinners. Don't drink it, wear gloves if you can't handle it without getting it on you, ventilation is good.

    Once cured it is just plastic. One primed it is painted plastic and absolutely innocuous.

    Perhaps something to watch for when receiving unpainted and still supported models though, as there may be some 'live' resin on the lower surfaces and inside. A second cleaning and curing of the 'obscured' areas is probably a good idea, if for no other reasons than for durability and a resiliant primer coating.
    Thanks for the info. Having done a bit more research online I will treat the uncured goo as toxic to the touch, most likely wearing gloves while cleaning. Thanks again.
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

  27. #277

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    Thanks for that information David and Jim.
    I am sure it will help a lot of us to be more aware of the potential dangers.

    Rob.
    Thanks for rep, Rob. Coincidentally, I had just watched a YouTube video about 3D printing where the creator was going to great lengths to make it clear that you needed to take precautions when using resins. This is what prompted my question and concern.
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

  28. #278
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    I am letting my hulls soak in a sunbeam, as it sounds that UV solves all ills (don't forget to rotate).

  29. #279
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    With the added value that it will help to destroy Covid as well Dobbs.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  30. #280
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    Setting them in the sun for the afternoon seems to have done the trick. Suzanne flipped them over every hour to make sure they got evenly roasted. The bottoms are much more firm now and the odor is much subdued.

  31. #281
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    I have just stuck mine outside Dobbs.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  32. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    I have just stuck mine outside Dobbs.
    Rob.
    I use the al fresco curing method myself unless I'm in a hurry. New prints were cooking off nicely inside an hour during the unseasonably good weather last week

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    My problem with leaving them outside for curing is that my cats may take an interest giving true meaning to curiosity killed the cat! In between the natural curing and a cheap nail polish lamp I can forego the $$ for a wash and cure station - they can be close to the price of the printer itself!!

  34. #284
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    Even in a cloudy sky with the odd sunny periods they were done in a couple of hours.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Name:  20210409_214041.jpg
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    I'm curious, weren't Canada's and Ganges' about the same size historically? That the Canada on the left.

  36. #286
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    Ganges should be 6" shorter LGD and almost a foot beamier, about 75 tons heavier. That pic looks almost like you have a 1/1000 Ganges and a 1/1200 Canada. Looks like the Ares Scale Curse has spread to Henry... :(
    --Diamondback
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  37. #287
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    According to Winfield.

    Canada as exemplified by the "Captain" was 170ft x 140ft.5in and 46ft 7in with a bm of 1632.

    Ganges had a length of 169ft 6in x 138ft 7 and 3/4in and 47ft 4in with a bm of 1656.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  38. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dobbs View Post
    Name:  20210405_144037.jpg
Views: 90
Size:  158.0 KB

    The squadron has arrived safe and sound. The trans-Atlantic crossing has been weathered with only one dog-eared cathead, suffered by San Jose' (easily fixed with a piece of styrene). The ships are as beautiful as I had hoped!

    One question; after breaking off the base, the underside of the boats seem gooey. How do I de-goo-ify?
    Glad to hear everything arrived!

    That goo is uncured resin that has failed to be cleaned off. To clarify, after printing every model got washed for 5 minutes in alcohol before being run through an ultrasonic cleaner twice. I then went over each one by hand, using an old paintbrush to apply alcohol and remove excess resin clogging up details. I then ran each ship under a tap. Unfortuantely, though, the bottoms of the ships being covered by their rafts/supports meant that they weren't as easily "got to." You can either wash it off with 90%+ alcohol or just cure the undersides under a UV light (natural or artificial) for 10~ minutes. I'd go for the latter since it's not like the undersides of the ships are going to be visible, so a bit of cured resin residue won't be an issue.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmoss View Post
    It is my understanding that resin is very toxic. Is the 'uncured' resin residue also as toxic? Before I handle these models any further I'd like to be clear on that? Thanks in advance.
    I use a more expensive resin that isn't as bad as what you hear about in the real horror stories but, yes, it *will* irritate your skin if you rub it on there and leave it. But with a residue like what's on these ships, just wash your hands thoroughly after touching it and don't touch your eyes. The worst part is just how sticky it makes things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lieste View Post
    Very is probably a stretch. Treat it as you would CA glue or enamel thinners. Don't drink it, wear gloves if you can't handle it without getting it on you, ventilation is good.

    Once cured it is just plastic. One primed it is painted plastic and absolutely innocuous.

    Perhaps something to watch for when receiving unpainted and still supported models though, as there may be some 'live' resin on the lower surfaces and inside. A second cleaning and curing of the 'obscured' areas is probably a good idea, if for no other reasons than for durability and a resiliant primer coating.
    Yes I really owe you all an apology, sorry, it was negligent of me to not think to give a bit of a warning about the risk of uncured resin. Again, though, while not totally safe I can at least say the stuff I use (https://www.amazon.co.uk/NOVA3D-Curi...ct_top?ie=UTF8) isn't the worst.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobbs View Post
    Now, what kind of glue should I use? I tried model styrene cement and it just bounced off.
    You'll want superglue, just like with traditional resin models, plastic glues aren't going to cut it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmoss View Post
    Thanks for the info. Having done a bit more research online I will treat the uncured goo as toxic to the touch, most likely wearing gloves while cleaning. Thanks again.
    I wear surgical gloves when doing the print removals/first clean, but I've been handling them with my bare hands after that - but I suppose I wasn't directly touching the undersides of the bases!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobbs View Post
    Setting them in the sun for the afternoon seems to have done the trick. Suzanne flipped them over every hour to make sure they got evenly roasted. The bottoms are much more firm now and the odor is much subdued.
    Yeah natural UV light from the sun does just fine! I use a nail curing lamp just to make sure everything gets an even spread, but if you've got someone rotating the models around at regular intervals, you should get an even cure.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeRuyter View Post
    My problem with leaving them outside for curing is that my cats may take an interest giving true meaning to curiosity killed the cat! In between the natural curing and a cheap nail polish lamp I can forego the $$ for a wash and cure station - they can be close to the price of the printer itself!!
    Not necessarily! If memory serves, my nail curing lamp was something like £8, and my Ultrasonic Cleaner was maybe £15? All cheap Chinese stuff, of course, but it does the job. Ironically the cleaner does itself need a deep clean, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobbs View Post
    Name:  20210409_214041.jpg
Views: 56
Size:  189.4 KB

    I'm curious, weren't Canada's and Ganges' about the same size historically? That the Canada on the left.
    I'm sorry, that seems to be a legitimate mistake :/

    I size the ships by breadth, rather than length, as I find the varied ways of measuring lengths (by keel, by gundeck) inconsistent and confusing. Of course, the issue with sizing the model by breadth is that you have to account for the fact that the hull planking isn't visible on ship plans. That's led to a few mistakes on my earlier ships. I'd like to think I've got better with practice, but I have to confess that the Canada model's base hull was sculpted perhaps 10 months ago and could well therefore have not been modelled in the same way as the rest of the range. And of course even when everything goes swimmingly, I still often find stuff ends up being 1-2mm~ off.

    Here are the exact measurements according to my STL files (note these are based on the longest/widest points of the model as show in the 3D preview, so length would be the tip of the bow back to the top of the lanterns, potentially, while the breadth will be measured from the furthest protruding points such as cannons or catsheads; whatever stretches out further on the axis):
    Name:  3Ag1Njy.jpg
Views: 52
Size:  77.1 KB

    Do those match your models there, Dobbs? Just want to make sure I haven't compounded the cock-up by sending you a 1/1200 model. There being a 4 metre difference (at 1:1) in the length of both ships does suggest there's something wrong there, though. At the least I'll provide the STL file for whichever ship is most out. If I have sent you a 1/1200 Canada, I'll send you out a 1/1000 one.

    EDIT: Realised the image had the ships' positions within the 3D environment, rather than their dimensions, updated the image now.


    Addendum: Not sure how intuitive this is, but here are both ships lined up with the front railings of their forecastles being exactly parallel, I've drawn two planes; one cropping said forecastle "front" and the other ending at the end of Canada's hull. Canada from forecastle to stern is about 50.05mm, with the Ganges going about 2.56mm further. Obviously this is only an approximation of a gundeck length comparison.
    Name:  sCPVNz3.png
Views: 54
Size:  113.0 KB
    Last edited by HenryTurner; 04-10-2021 at 03:48.

  39. #289
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    Thanks for all the explanations, Henry. Yes, my initial thought was that maybe I had gotten a 1/1200 Canada, but your diagrams match my physical reality.

  40. #290
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    Here are mine at 1000th scale. As you can see there is hardly a smidgeon between them.
    Rob.
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    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Henry, if it helps to know Greenwich draughts usually show the decks as dashed lines. Beam is usually over the hull planks, not including catheads.
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    Last edited by Diamondback; 04-10-2021 at 20:53.
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    (But if memory serves, not over wales, the planking is 'just' the normal thickness, so extreme breadth is about 8" more than the 'over planking value').

    Canada *should* be longer than Ganges on the Lower deck. What is happening at roundhouse and beakhead may be a different story, with these being longer on earlier period ships compared to later draughts.

    French and Spanish seem to take different GD length and beam measures, as the conversion to 25.4mm inches from 27.7mm give a consistently 'different' value than the taking off measurements by the English captures. This is also true of captured US ships.

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    At this scale the 6" length difference on LD is so insignificant as to be a Rounding Error. I'd need to take a closer look at the drawings again, but some designs extend the LD into the gallery while others stop at the sternpost with galleries only on MD/UD and QD.

    Pretty much the length measured right below the lower gunports should be within a fraction of a millimeter.
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    Here's both of Henry's 74's plus Bellona together in 1/500 or double-Ares scale. Top to bottom Bellona-Ganges-Orion, it's surprising that Canada has so much more hull outside the deck length.
    Name:  Bellona-Ganges-Orion 1-500.jpg
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    The only other possibility I see is that somehow things completely went to hell on my math enlarging and reducing drawings, then converting size to pizels at 96dpi--but you'd think if there was a flaw in the math they would still come out proportional to one another..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lieste View Post
    (But if memory serves, not over wales, the planking is 'just' the normal thickness, so extreme breadth is about 8" more than the 'over planking value').

    Canada *should* be longer than Ganges on the Lower deck. What is happening at roundhouse and beakhead may be a different story, with these being longer on earlier period ships compared to later draughts.

    French and Spanish seem to take different GD length and beam measures, as the conversion to 25.4mm inches from 27.7mm give a consistently 'different' value than the taking off measurements by the English captures. This is also true of captured US ships.
    Also, the French inch and the Spanish inch are not the same, and even Spanish ships from different times do not use the same measure--some are built by the archaic codo, others by the Burgos foot. I've been fighting with this nightmare since even before the game first streeted for Ares; usually the first thing we do is metric conversion, which immediately gives us a target model size in mm.
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    I forgot the Burgos foot, I was more recently looking at artillery, where they share a common pound and inch with the French under the influence of the "Spanish Gribevaul system". (The same calibres, windage and shot, but a different pattern of reinforces, and lengths, as well as a useful early gunnade, authorised in the 1780s instead of the pathetic obusier d'vaisseau the French opted for).

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    Another variable would be is deck length measured as a flat plane, or along the sheer of it? Different sheer curvature will subtly increase or decrease deck length.
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    Measuring the Ganges, it is coming out at 3.0625" on the gun deck which at 169'6" = 1/664 scale.
    The Canada is measuring 2.875" on the GD which at 170' = 1/710 scale
    Last edited by Volunteer; 04-12-2021 at 09:02.

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    According to Winfield and Wikipedia, you have Canada 2' too long, at 170' it comes out about 1/710. Not much better of a match but a little.

    Target lengths for a 1/700 LD should be 2.906" on LD for Ganges and 2.914" for Canada, so rescale to around 94.89% and 101.36% respectively. Our target lengths in Sails should be 2.034" and 2.040".
    Last edited by Diamondback; 04-12-2021 at 01:14.
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    Here is an easy scale converter you can use to determine how long the model needs to be. Just plug in the desired scale and actual feet or meters of the ship, and it will give you inches or milimeters the model should to be.

    https://www.ginifab.com/feeds/cm_to_...converter.html

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