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Thread: Modified Bases for SGN101-105

  1. #1
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    Default Modified Bases for SGN101-105

    Here are blank PDF's of my ship base cards reflecting sailing angles more in line with square riggers. I based these on information from "Seamanship in the Age of Sail", by John Harland.

    I felt that Ares was being generous with their angles, perhaps to speed up gameplay? I think my bases may still be generous for the 2 and 3 deckers, but realism must have limits!

    Ship Base Cards - 101, 103.pdf

    Ship Base Cards - 102, 104, 105.pdf

    Of note, I have switched the decks for 101 and 103, and increased the Amazons to Burden 3. I use Burden 2 as post ships or corvettes. If anyone wants the Concordes and Amazons with the original information, just drop me a line. I'll make up a batch and post them here.

    If there's interest for other classes or nationalities, let me know and I'll post the ship bases here.

    If you try these, take pictures and post them here and let me know what you think of the bases.
    Last edited by Dobbs; 04-26-2020 at 09:51.

  2. #2

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    Yes, Ares was quite generous with both sailing and gunnery arcs. More realistic values were suggested but rejected to speed game play.

  3. #3
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    Thanks for clarifying that Dave.
    I was under the impression that the fire arcs were large to compensate for the fact that the ship could not fire as it came to bear on another ship but had to wait for the culmination of the move? So that clears up that fake news.
    Rob.
    Last edited by Bligh; 04-28-2020 at 15:24.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    TBF it is not just Ares being overly generous. Most age of sail rules go for the playability angle. Using Dobbs' templates gives you an appreciation for the difficulty of a line having to work to windward!

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    You are right, but SOG is more generous than most others that I've played over the years :)

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    This is very interesting . Do you Have the mods for the spanish ships ?

    Every day I am learning something new here :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrante View Post
    This is very interesting . Do you Have the mods for the spanish ships ?

    Every day I am learning something new here :)
    Tell me which ones you want, Ferrante, and I'll post them here.

  8. #8
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    Dobbs i have this ships :

    SGN113A Mahonesa
    SGN112A San Juan Nepomuceno
    SGN111A Santa Ana
    SGN113B Diana
    SGN111C Principe de Asturias

    Many thanks :D

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    I don't have a SGN112A, Ferrante. Could you post an example of the base card so I can compare it to the others?

  10. #10
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    Sure , this is the base card. If you need more detail please let me know ����
    Name:  BD11A9E0-1B11-4ADB-8FCB-4D414D334B99.jpg
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Size:  176.2 KB

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    Thank you, Ferrante. I'll most likely post the results later today.

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    Today I have been making up base cards for Ferrante. When I got to the Spanish 1st rates I discovered that they have the worst sailing angles of all 1st rates in the game!

    Does anyone have an opinion on the historical accuracy of this?

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    Here you go Ferrante:

    Ship Base Cards - Spanish 111, 112, 113.pdf

    The 1st Rates are done with the English 1st rate sailing angles, because I just could bring myself to give the Spanish 1st rates a worse one than that. I probably will work up a conjectural one for myself if you want it.

    Now, make sure you post some pictures of you using these cards for us all to enjoy!


    If the lettering doesn't print out perfectly, you may need the exact font that I used. This is where I got the font for the lettering.

    https://ufonts.com/fonts/b/page54.html

    It was called Bauer Bodoni LT BoldCond, and I don't see it listed anymore. If you can't find it there, I can always send it to you as a file.

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    That would be most useful indeed Dobbs.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    For anyone who wants me to email the font, just PM me your email address.

  16. #16
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    Many thanks.
    It is perfect, I will print it and try it. it has been very very goods. Very useful
    Good Job and thanks again !!!

    I think that the biggest problem for the Spanish navy was not the ships or the officers but the lack of professional sailors / crew

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    Nice base cards there Dobbs, I for one would like a new blank Amazon and Concorde class card as I have a couple in my collection.
    I will also send you a pm, the font I have been using on my cards has been Bondoni and Bondoni condenced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrante View Post
    Many thanks.
    It is perfect, I will print it and try it. it has been very very goods. Very useful
    Good Job and thanks again !!!

    I think that the biggest problem for the Spanish navy was not the ships or the officers but the lack of professional sailors / crew
    That was my thought too, and the ships shouldn't reflect crew issues. The ships stats should represent the ships with an average crew.

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    I totally agree Dobbs. If we want to add historical elements they should be added as optional rules, the same way as we do for things like Carronades, and well trained crew etc. I was just intending adding a card for around the Period of the Mutiny at Spithead and the Nore. For the British, play the Mutinous crew card, and all tasks are performed at half the normal speed. Also the Captain dare not play the let the men drink option for this ship, lest they get out of hand, hoist the Red flag, and there is also 50% chance that the nearest friendly ship will join them in disobeying orders, and sail for home waters.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  20. #20
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    I was under the impression the Spanish ships were not too good sailing ships, they could take damage, but were not particularly manoeuvrable nor were Spanish guns/powder a high standard. Spanish frigates were ok but the bigger ships not too much, cant think of many that when captured were taken on as war ships mainly being put as hospital, victual, prison ships.
    But willing to accept new info.

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    I know that the Santisima had a reputation for sailing like a brick Chris, and several others were a bit iffy too, but not sure if this was crew or just lack of sea time like the French suffered. Spanish Ships were certainly not as handy as the French ones, but then neither were ours until we started copying the French designs. As I said in my last post, rather than muck about with the normal rules let those users we wish it use alternative optional rules or cards which Dobbs is so kindly providing, never realizing that he is about to become a cottage industry in his own right. Fortunately we don't have as many members here as Old Guy has to service on the Drome.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  22. #22
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    Sounds good to me Rob, I know that the Spanish ships published had dubious stats, but we generally adjusted these .
    From my Trafalgar project I read that most Spanish larger ships were of a similar design, hence my thoughts on the ships. This is the big problem we face not having much in the way of reference books on the Spanish fleets at this time, in English that is anyway.
    I have always thought the Amazon frigates were a tad weak having a 2 burden and in game terms were almost useless compared to others.
    Agree thanks need to go to Dobbs for his work here, although does he know the can he has opened, luckily I can add names to blank cards so will be utilising some of the cards for my fleets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capn Duff View Post
    Nice base cards there Dobbs, I for one would like a new blank Amazon and Concorde class card as I have a couple in my collection.
    I will also send you a pm, the font I have been using on my cards has been Bondoni and Bondoni condenced.
    I look forward to your PM, Chris. I'll post the blank Concordes and Amazons soon.

    I have switched the Maneuver Decks between the Concordes and Amazons and bumped the Amazon Burden up to 3. Would you like the cards to reflect this or would you like them with the original stats?
    Last edited by Dobbs; 05-02-2020 at 14:07.

  24. #24
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    Hi Dobbs, could I get a copy of both sets of stats please.

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    You bet, Chris!

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    Here you go:

    Ship Base Cards - Amazon and Concordes, changed stats.pdf

    Ship Base Cards - Amazon and Concordes, original stats.pdf

    On the original stat cards, the stats are all as Ares had them. Only the sailing angles are changed. On the changed stats cards, it's the whole shooting match. Stats and sailing angles are changed.

  27. #27
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    This is great all round chaps.
    If we can consolidate the work that has been done, it can be put into the files by Keith. All the modifications that have improved the system.
    I know that you have done a lot of work on the ship logs Chris. Can we get those up as well?

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  28. #28

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    I know for gaming the differences between the Amazon class and the Concorde class seems to be huge, but there are some real differences in length, width and draught.

    Can‘t say anything to the construction, but I guess that the Concordes have a great design, but the Amazons get the better maneuverability due to the smaller burden value.

    On the first look a burden 2 seems unbalanced vs. a burden 3 in a battle frigate vs. frigate, but I think it wasn‘t only a free decision to choose this difference in burden value. Firepower is equal.

    Maybe it feels more comfortable to have a burden 3 Amazon class for any game with a SoL involved.

  29. #29
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    All sources say that British ships were more robust than the flimsy French ones but that the French were more handy and faster. Frigates were also more on a par with the British as they were the only ships to get a fair amount of sea time to work up the crews.
    This was especially true of those which had been in the Indian Ocean or the Caribbean.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  30. #30
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    I have all the ship logs on word files so I can mail them to who needs wants them, however most have my numbering system on so before posting to the files I would need to remove those.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dobbs View Post
    Here you go:

    Ship Base Cards - Amazon and Concordes, changed stats.pdf

    Ship Base Cards - Amazon and Concordes, original stats.pdf

    On the original stat cards, the stats are all as Ares had them. Only the sailing angles are changed. On the changed stats cards, it's the whole shooting match. Stats and sailing angles are changed.
    Cheers matey, much appreciated

  32. #32
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    Yes thanks Dobbs.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capn Duff View Post
    I have all the ship logs on word files so I can mail them to who needs wants them, however most have my numbering system on so before posting to the files I would need to remove those.
    If we are referring to your modified ships logs, I would think they would be OK as is Chris.
    Just pop one up for me to see exactly what you mean they look like.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  34. #34
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    All my logs look like this



    I then print and laminate, I did this as my original logs were starting tolift a bit on the jigsaw tags.

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