Results 1 to 27 of 27

Thread: Scale Conversion--1/1000 to 1/700

  1. #1

    Default Scale Conversion--1/1000 to 1/700

    I've been contemplating converting a number of ship cards and maneuver deck cards from SoG to 1/700 scale to use with a few of the Black Seas ships. So I'm going to ask what is probably a stupid question, but am I correct in assuming that 1/1000 for SoG and 1/700 for Black Seas are likely metric and not Imperial measurements? A SoG ship card measures 41mm x 71mm and a maneuver card is 50mm x 75mm (if I measured accurately). Using some online conversion tables should be relatively easy, but I needed to confirm what knowledgeable folks here would know.

    The main purpose for doing this conversion is to use one or both of the two SoG solo rule sets for some play with the Black Seas ships.

    Thanks in advance for any assistance.

    Cheers!
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

  2. #2
    Captain
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    WA
    Log Entries
    3,229
    Name
    [RESTRICTED]

    Default

    Scales are ratios of "model/map to actual size," and while technically agnostic of measurement systems the "multiples of 25" (eg, 1/700) scales work better in metric while "multiples of 12" (eg, 1/720) are better in Imperial.

    Multiply by ten then divide by seven and Bob's Your Uncle, simple as that. The game was designed in metric, so measuring in millimeters will be both easier and more precise.
    --Diamondback
    PMH, SME, TLA, BBB

  3. #3
    Admiral of the Blue.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    14,375
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Thanks for the clarification put in your usual succinct manner DB. I am sure it will help a number of our shipmates intent on pursuing Jim's intentions. The only thing putting me off doing this is the parsimonious attitude I have developed about burning vast amounts of printer ink on producing large cards in any quantity. Even doing a set or five with backs of ordinary cards cost me about £44 quids worth of inks. With the time involved cutting them out, photo print card and all, it would probably not have been more expensive to buy the ships just for the cards which I did for the cards I wanted for my Langton models.
    However, if you are having to go down the route for the 1/720s I hope you have access to a works printer and an understanding administrator. One of the not so good perks of being retired. My old admin secretary would knock out just about anything I needed in a couple of minutes.
    If any of you do try this new card out for your games please let me know how you progress with it and how well it translates to the larger sizes in practice.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Scales are ratios of "model/map to actual size," and while technically agnostic of measurement systems the "multiples of 25" (eg, 1/700) scales work better in metric while "multiples of 12" (eg, 1/720) are better in Imperial.

    Multiply by ten then divide by seven and Bob's Your Uncle, simple as that. The game was designed in metric, so measuring in millimeters will be both easier and more precise.
    Thanks DB. I do believe this answers my question. I did find an online scale converter at this site: http://www.scalemodelersworld.com/on...rter-tool.html Which if I used it correctly means 1 mm in 1/1000 converts to 1.426 mm in 1/700? If so, then a 41 mm x 71 mm ship card converts to 58.57 mm x 101.42 mm? The maneuver cards would then be 71.41 mm x 107.14 (original size at 1/1000 is 50 mm x 75 mm).



    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    Thanks for the clarification put in your usual succinct manner DB. I am sure it will help a number of our shipmates intent on pursuing Jim's intentions. The only thing putting me off doing this is the parsimonious attitude I have developed about burning vast amounts of printer ink on producing large cards in any quantity. Even doing a set or five with backs of ordinary cards cost me about £44 quids worth of inks. With the time involved cutting them out, photo print card and all, it would probably not have been more expensive to buy the ships just for the cards which I did for the cards I wanted for my Langton models.
    However, if you are having to go down the route for the 1/720s I hope you have access to a works printer and an understanding administrator. One of the not so good perks of being retired. My old admin secretary would knock out just about anything I needed in a couple of minutes.
    If any of you do try this new card out for your games please let me know how you progress with it and how well it translates to the larger sizes in practice.
    Rob.
    Rob, if I do follow through on this it wont be an extensive exercise for exactly the points you've made. I wouldn't go beyond standard paper and most likely would seal them in laminate or card sleeves? I have a cheap color printer I may try a test on, which if at all reasonable in results I'll post here.

    Cheers.
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

  5. #5
    Captain
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    WA
    Log Entries
    3,229
    Name
    [RESTRICTED]

    Default

    Let me give you another illustration, my workaround to account for different ship lengths reported in different sources.

    Take the original building draught for HMS Victory, for example.

    We know this is a 1/48 scale drawing, and the scanned hardcopy measures 703x1905mm. If we expand the drawing to the size of the actual ship (multiply by 48), we would have a stupefyingly huge sheet of paper 33744mm x 91440mm, or three hundred feet from one edge to the other. Then to convert that to SOG nominal scale, we divide by 1000 and get a drawing 33.744 x 91.44mm.
    --Diamondback
    PMH, SME, TLA, BBB

  6. #6
    Admiral of the Blue.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    14,375
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmoss View Post

    Rob, if I do follow through on this it wont be an extensive exercise for exactly the points you've made. I wouldn't go beyond standard paper and most likely would seal them in laminate or card sleeves? I have a cheap color printer I may try a test on, which if at all reasonable in results I'll post here.

    Cheers.
    Thanks for your answer Jim, and excellent advice.

    I always use Mayday sleeves for my cards but obviously this will not fit the new scale so I would now also laminate in the same way I have done for an oversize one off of Movement cards, ship card, base card, and ship mat, for demo purposes at shows, where it is far easier and quicker to show a group of newbies the works all together like a flip chart rather than tour round the table explaining the same thing half a dozen times to each individual.
    For one or two ships that would be quite a lot cheaper and on plain paper use far less ink on standard setting rather than photo quality.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  7. #7

    Default

    First test of rescaling an SoG ship card. Getting images to follow metric conversions has been something of a challenge, especially when it comes to printing. I'll follow up with the maneuver deck cards, which I will not be printing in color or flooding photos here.

    If folks don't wish to see this content I'll certainly refrain as this is the Sails of Glory forums. Cheers!
    Attached Images Attached Images     
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

  8. #8
    Admiral of the Blue.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    14,375
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Looks to work pretty well Jim.
    Thanks for a glimpse of your work.
    As long as you don't add movement cards or anything else I can't see a problem.
    You have just illustrated the fact that it can be done.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  9. #9
    Captain
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    WA
    Log Entries
    3,229
    Name
    [RESTRICTED]

    Default

    A good first experiment, Jim; we shall watch your developments with great interest. :)
    --Diamondback
    PMH, SME, TLA, BBB

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    Looks to work pretty well Jim.
    Thanks for a glimpse of your work.
    As long as you don't add movement cards or anything else I can't see a problem.
    You have just illustrated the fact that it can be done.
    Rob.
    Rob, just so I'm clear on what I should or shouldn't be showing, you're saying I should not share any photos of rescaled maneuver cards even if I were to lay them out in an AAR? I certainly don't wish to violate any forum or Ares rules/regulations. Thanks.
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

  11. #11
    1st Lieutenant
    United States

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Delaware
    Log Entries
    1,034
    Name
    Eric

    Default

    I was kind of curious about that statement myself. You are in fact showcasing more ways to play using the SoG rules and game system if not the models themselves. Not say promoting another rules system on the SoG forum.

  12. #12
    Admiral of the Blue.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    14,375
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Chaps. I am simply applying the rules as I understand them from what is used on the Drome.
    As far as I know Ares has no problem with producing cards which are not a copy of the ones in production, For instance ship cards with different ships on them, or aircraft they do not make. However, they did not allow us to publish sets of the movement cards in toto. A set of cards which can be enlarged by us, can soon be reduced back to the original size by someone else. I think an example of a couple at the new size would be OK. No way am I going to risk upsetting Ares, and bringing down a blanket ban on reproducing any of their printed products.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  13. #13
    Captain
    Sweden

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Linköping
    Log Entries
    3,059
    Blog Entries
    6
    Name
    Jonas

    Default

    Some have already left maneauvre cards in the pictures in AARs.

    As long as it's only a few and not in perfect angle for reproduction I would be surprised if they complained. Besides, making black and white copies would probably make them even less dangerous.

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    Chaps. I am simply applying the rules as I understand them from what is used on the Drome.
    As far as I know Ares has no problem with producing cards which are not a copy of the ones in production, For instance ship cards with different ships on them, or aircraft they do not make. However, they did not allow us to publish sets of the movement cards in toto. A set of cards which can be enlarged by us, can soon be reduced back to the original size by someone else. I think an example of a couple at the new size would be OK. No way am I going to risk upsetting Ares, and bringing down a blanket ban on reproducing any of their printed products.

    Rob.
    Rob, I'm not going to risk getting The Anchorage into jeopardy with Ares so I'll refrain from posting any photos.

    Warlord did just announce merchant ships along with schooners being released in the near future, so I might try some ship cards for fun. I also just received the Santisima Trinidad, which is massive in 1/700. Did the Stats Committee ever decide on the appropriate numbers for a ship card? I've seen no indication that Ares is going to follow up with their 1/1000 version.

    Cheers.
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

  15. #15
    Admiral of the Blue.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    14,375
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Thanks for the update Jim.
    Not sure if anything definite was decided about the Santisima.
    Either, Dave Manley, DB, or Chris, Cptn. Duff may be able to enlighten you.
    Reminds me that I need to complete the one that Clipper sent me.
    Everything has been on hold for the last year whilst we sorted out the house extension.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  16. #16
    2nd Lieutenant
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Maryland
    Log Entries
    951
    Blog Entries
    10
    Name
    Dobbs

    Default

    I'm not sure I'm following this conversation correctly. Does this mean that I should refrain from posting my modified sideslip cards since I used the originals as templates?

  17. #17
    1st Lieutenant
    United States

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Delaware
    Log Entries
    1,034
    Name
    Eric

    Default

    I think as long as your modified card cannot be replicated as a copy of an original Ares card, hence risking a copyright infringement, then it should be ok. Rob is the final arbiter though (unless Andrea weighs in).

  18. #18
    Admiral of the Blue.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    14,375
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    No one seems to have worried us about anything which they do not actually produce. i believe that your altered cards fall into that category. It seems to be just stuff that can be ripped off which may effect their sales that cross the line.
    If I hear different I will let you know.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  19. #19
    Captain
    Sweden

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Linköping
    Log Entries
    3,059
    Blog Entries
    6
    Name
    Jonas

    Default

    We who were in the stats commitee did not discuss Santissima Trinidad.

    I have seen discussions here on the site though. Her great number of guns often overshadow her less than fantastic broadside weight.

  20. #20
    Captain
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    WA
    Log Entries
    3,229
    Name
    [RESTRICTED]

    Default

    "Were"? As far as I'm concerned, even if we've all been busy with other things the Committee is still open for business anytime we're ready to reconvene. I've finally got most of the existing ship data indexed and am starting to work out upper/lower limits for filling in some of the gaps like Second and Sixth Rates... :)

    Not to mention that a full deck of useless POS obusiers made ST a de-facto three-decker with a very high side profile to catch incoming hits.
    --Diamondback
    PMH, SME, TLA, BBB

  21. #21
    Admiral of the Blue.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    14,375
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    My next comment is obvious then Jonas/ DB.
    We need the stats committee to reconvene and give us their wisdom on this matter if they would be so good.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  22. #22
    Captain
    Sweden

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Linköping
    Log Entries
    3,059
    Blog Entries
    6
    Name
    Jonas

    Default

    Well... The fact that the last thing written in that part of the forum was in September 2016 made me think of it in past tense.

  23. #23

    Default

    Whenever you gents get together I'd be more than pleased to take your stats and apply them to a stand in ship card for Santisima Trinidad. Until such time that Ares comes out with their own ST version I'd stick with using the consensus here.

    As for my current project of rescaling SoG to 1/700 I came across this older article on Boardgame Geek that some will find interesting, if not amusing. Going large. . .is an understatement.

    https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/139...t-how-small-yo
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

  24. #24
    Admiral of the Blue.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    14,375
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Certainly is a bit of good fun Jim.
    However, there is no way that I am about to proceed with making landscape and fortifications at that scale. I would need a bigger house to harbour it all.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  25. #25
    1st Lieutenant
    United States

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Delaware
    Log Entries
    1,034
    Name
    Eric

    Default

    Wow and I thought using 15mm ships was large!!

  26. #26

    Default

    Some additional progress on my scale conversion of SoG cards to a scale that will work with the 1/700 ships from Black Seas. I still need to find card sleeves that will work with the ship cards and maneuver cards, but with the self adhesive magnetic sheets and magnets in the base of the ships I can either have the ships resting just on the ship card or raised up on a 1/8 thick acrylic base. Photos attached (as I'm only showing ship cards I trust this wont be a problem?).
    Attached Images Attached Images        
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

  27. #27
    Admiral of the Blue.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    14,375
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    No problem as far as I can see jim. its not as if you are producing the whole set or anything.
    My but the whole set up does look good though.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •