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Thread: Fore-and-Aft Rig

  1. #1
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    Default Fore-and-Aft Rig

    I don't recall seeing anything in the House Rules section, but how would you treat a fore-and-aft rigged ship like a schooner in the wind? Maybe beating replacing being taken aback?

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    Dobbs is your man for this question. If you have a look at some of his posts he gives a lot of information on the subject including some ship base cards with modified wind effects.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    I will post my schooner rules when I get back to my computer.

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    Here are my House Rules for schooners plus some other wind related rules. Note that the Green Arc is reversed with the Yellow Arc, since fore and aft vessels sail to windward better than downwind. The page numbers refer to the SoG rulebook.

    Schooner Rules for Sails of Glory 05-05-19

    Page 10
    Burden 1 Movement: Due to their agility, unlike larger ships which must plan two movement cards ahead, all vessels with a Burden of 1 need only plan one movement card ahead.

    Page 11
    Tacking: At the end of any turn that a ship with one gundeck ends its movement in the red arc, its sail setting counter is temporarily moved one to the right. The next turn, as long as the ship’s new speed is either Battle or Backing Sails, but the ship is still in the red zone, the player uses the 1st hourglass movement on the red cards. Any turn where a ship’s sail speed has dropped to “Struck Sails”, the ship must move using the 2nd hourglass on the appropriate red card. For instance, a ship moving at “Backing Sails” and turning into the red would, at the end of the turn, temporarily reduce its speed to “Struck Sails”. While it remains in the red arc, any movements for this ship would use the 2nd hourglass movements on the red cards.

    Any ship that uses a 2nd hourglass movement will be stationary for the first move after it has exited the red arc.

    Once movement reverts to blue bordered cards, the ship must move for that turn at the speed to which the counter dropped. If the counter dropped to “Struck Sails”, the ship is stationary for the first card after the last red bordered card. The ship can gain one sail setting per turn afterward, back to its original speed or any speed the player chooses.

    A ship’s speed exiting a tack is based on its original speed entering a tack, regardless of sail changes or wind speed changes.

    * Ships with two gundecks only get one 1st hourglass move, whether moving at Battle or Full Sails.

    * Ships with three or more gundecks only get to use a 1st hourglass move if they are moving at Full Sails.

    If any ship turns into the red arc while using a damaged mast card, it must use the 2nd hourglass movement on the next turn. If a ship must use a red card while it is using the damaged mast cards for movement, the player draws a red card randomly.

    Pages 14, 17, 25, 26, 36, 37
    Broadsides and Musket Fire: Firing works exactly like in basic rules, with the exceptions if crew experience is used.

    A target is in arc if the firing arc passes over some portion of the model’s hull. Range is determined from the firing arc’s red dot to the target’s base.

    Burden 1 ships, or ships armed with 4 or 6 pounders as their main battery subtract -2 from any numerical chit draws for damage. Any crew hits are also half damage. Burden 2 and 3 ships, or ships armed with 9 or 12 pounders as their main battery subtract -1 from any chit draws for damage. All other damage remains the same as larger ships.

    Schooners: If the wind is blowing through the Blue arc on the schooner’s base, the schooner moves at the orange rate at the next slower wind speed. If the ship is already at Backing Sails, the player moves the forward edge of the ship’s base to the line for the orange Full Sails setting. If the schooner is sailing in light wind at backing sails, it pivots on the stern quarter closest to the direction the player wishes to turn. The ship is pivoted just far enough to be out of the blue arc.

    Sail Trim: A player may check his ship's position relative to the wind at any time, representing the helmsman always watching the trim of the sails.

    Light and Extremely Light Wind Slow Speed: In Light wind, a ship using backing sails may move by moving the forward edge of the ship’s base up to the line for the battle sails setting. In Very Light wind, the ship would be at battle sails to move at this speed. In Very Light air, at backing sails, the vessel would be stopped. This may be used by a vessel at Backing Sails in Fair wind by reducing sail to the Spilling Wind box.

    A vessel moving at this speed cannot tack. If it turns into the wind and requires a red card, the card used is the one that is opposite the turn that took it into the red arc, and it uses the second hourglass. A single gundeck ship moving at this speed may not use a turn card pair sharper than 7/3. A ship with two or more gundecks moving at this speed may not use a turn card pair sharper than 6/4.

    If the wind decreases and a ship was planning a sharper turn than allowed, it uses the sharpest available turn at the Slow Speed.

    Sailing Closehauled:
    A player playing a blue card that would carry his ship into the red arc may declare before movement that he intends to sail closehauled. The ship must be closehauled on the same tack that it was before the movement. If the blue card would carry the ship into the red arc on the opposite tack, it must be played as is.

    Blank Schooner Cards:
    Ship Base Cards - Anchorage 2.pdf

  5. #5
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    Thanks Dobbs.
    That will be really useful. I have made a copy of the rules for posterity.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Fantastic, thank you!

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    Dobbs, would you be willing to design a couple of base cards for some gunboats?

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    Absolutely! Just tell me what you have in mind and I'll see what I can do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dobbs View Post
    Absolutely! Just tell me what you have in mind and I'll see what I can do.
    I don't have the models yet, but I'm thinking of gluing several gunboats to a single base, each armed with something like a 24 pounder in the bow and that's it, so I would need a collective forward-facing arc.

    Also, what do your ship logs look like for schooners? I have a friend painting up an 8-gun GHQ schooner for me at the moment (although there's no reason I can't give it a different armament).

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    I don't use the regular ship logs. Check out mine here:

    https://sailsofglory.org/entry.php?7...-Damage-Charts

    I'll post schooner ones if you're interested.

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    I'm definitely interested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonb View Post
    I'm definitely interested.
    Have you checked out my more historically accurate sailing angles base cards? I'll send you a base card this evening for Albany but it will make a big difference whether you want the one comparable to the regular game or the more accurate (she'd sail like a bale of hay against the unmodified cards using my tweaked cards).

    Actually, I can just send one of each, along with a ship log.

  13. #13
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    For schooners and the like, i would definitely use Dobbs modified base cards. They should be adopted by Ares if they ever get around to the smaller vessels. These are what I use for my ships which are not square riggers.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dobbs View Post
    She'd sail like a bale of hay...
    I have no idea what that means.

    I have the schooner base cards, just not sure what to do with hull, gunnery, and crew.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonb View Post
    I have no idea what that means.

    I have the schooner base cards, just not sure what to do with hull, gunnery, and crew.
    Oops, I forgot I posted those. Those are the correct ones if using the base cards for square riggers that came with SoG.

    Unmodified, the SoG base cards allow the ships to sail closer to the wind than they would have been able to historically.

    Square riggers wouldn't have been able to sail within 60 degrees of the wind, and schooners 45. My alternative cards reflect that and shouldn't be mixed with the stock cards or someone gets an unfair advantage.

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    I think I'm going to stick with Ares' base cards for the other ships for now and maybe upgrade later. Still, how well does a bale of hay sail? I've never heard hay bales used in an idiom like that before.

  17. #17
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    I have heard the saying "sails like a haystack" Imagine a haystack with a fully rigged set of sails and how it would perform. A bale would be similar only smaller.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  18. #18
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    I'm with Rob. Poorly, though I think better than a haystack because it's somewhat more cohesive.

    Here are two possible schooner ship logs:

    107 - Schooner Albany.pdf

    107 - Schooner Albany Smaller.pdf

    My 16 gun schooner is loosely based on Enterprise. If you have a different vision on Albany's tonnage and crew size I will adjust accordingly.

  19. #19
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    Thanks for making these! I think I like the smaller one better thematically. I'm not sure I want the schooner to be quite as powerful as a sloop, given the armaments I've seen on a lot of historical examples and the general ad hoc nature of using schooners as warships.

  20. #20
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    The topsail schooner, Albany, painted by a friend of mine. The model is from GHQ.

    Name:  IMG-0898.jpg
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  21. #21
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    Not done any business with GHQ. I will have to check them out Jason.
    Thanks for the photo.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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