Greetings from Minnesota

[Rfkadow]

Hi guys,

I'm afraid I don't know any nautical jargon so I'll have to say this in regular American English.

I'm a science teacher and father in the Land of 10,000 Lakes. I've been playing boardgames (mostly family games) much of my life but have recently started indulging in more historical games like Sails of Glory, Wings of Glory and the COIN games from GMT. There's something about knowing that the miniatures (they're really beautiful aren't they!) and pieces and cards represent real human beings and their actions and maybe even their emotions that just grabs me.

I'm embarrassed to say that I've spent far more time reading about battles and ships and terms (what on Earth is a 'weather column' or what exactly weighs 12 pounds in a 12 pound long gun and so on) than I have playing SoG. Nonetheless, the boy and I have a few games under our belts and I've played a few solo, mostly putzing around with strategy and some of the standard and advanced rules.

In any event, I'm very happy to have found this site.
Ryan

[Bligh]

Firstly allow me to formally welcome you to the Anchorage on behalf of the sailors based here Ryan.

You will soon pick up the jargon, and I can fully recommend "Fighting at sea in the 18th century" by Sam Willis. ISBN 9781843833673

Have a good look around the site first and then feel free to ask any questions. I am sure your shipmates will be only too happy to help you out.

Good luck and may you always sail with a fair wind and a willing foe.

Rob.

[Rfkadow]

Thank you for the recommendation. I’ve requested a couple of Sam Willis books through our local library. I’m really enjoying exploring this remarkable website.

Ryan

[Bligh]

Glad you like it Ryan. It makes things all worth the effort when a new shipmate gives us the thumbs up. Shows that we must be doing something right
Rob.

[Naharaht]

Welcome to the Anchorage, Ryan, from here 'across the pond' in the United Kingdom.

[Rfkadow]

Thank you David. I have to say this is the most civilized and welcoming online community I’ve ever been a part of.

All the best,
Ryan

[Capn Duff]

A warm welcome to you Ryan, from here in Bristol UK.
Any questions just shout, someone will most likely have an answer for you.

[TexaS]

Another welcome from me in Sweden.

We try to be welcoming and helpful. We will try yo answer any questions you may have about the game and the time period.

[Wentworth]

Welcome to the site from the beautiful Hudson River Valley -- I have found the people on this site to be warm, welcoming, and very helpful. If you are looking for solo games -- check out some of the After Action Reports on this site (which you can replay with your own ships and see if you get similar results) -- I've done this and found it a lot of fun.
best,
Bill

[Rfkadow]

Thank you Chris, Jonas, and Bill. I appreciate you recommending the After Action Reports. I live in a fairly small community so I'm most likely going to be playing mostly solo for the foreseeable future.

Here's a question that probably doesn't have a simple answer, but I've been reading for the past few months about naval battles during this time period and the British Navy always seems to win impressively (Battle of the Nile, Camperdown, St. Vincent, Trafalgar and so on). Surely this can't all be down to luck or the chances of weather or other such uncontrollable variables. Are there other battles that I'm not reading about that were dominated by the French / Spanish / Dutch or were the British truly the dominant European navy during this period?

[Bligh]

To try and answer you in short Ryan:-

The British did not always win the battles especially in the earlier period of the 18th Century. This was usually due to incompetent Command, being outnumbered, animosity between some of the senior officers, and poor signalling techniques. Also outmoded forms of attack were used and the Admiralty standing orders adhered to so rigorously that innovation and opportunistic attacks were hardly ever attempted. It took years for the British Admirals to shake off the spectre of Admiral Byng's fate, and this served to stultify their willingness to veer from the standing orders as laid down by even one jot.

Later on the lessons learnt and addressed, together with innovations is ship construction, gunnery and a proper signals code improved matters. More active commanders such as Rodney, Hood and Nelson began to break the mold when a battle was joined. The element of surprise was then with the British.
Also at this time the French lost a lot of competent seamen in the Terror. There ships were starved of supplies with the instigation of blockade and also sea time was cut to a minimum also because of the blockade which had the opposite effect upon the British ships and crews who worked up to a superb pitch of excellence by being at sea for long periods in all weathers.

Very briefly, the Spanish Empire was in decline, even before the Napoleonic wars, and the Dutch though competent seamen were under the control of the Directorate and its doctrine. It really took the burgeoning young and active USA to come up with a way of dealing with the Royal Navy, and even they never went head to head in a large scale battle.

For a real straight fight between nations you can look to the actions in the Indian Ocean, where thanks to several very accomplished French Captains things were much more evenly poised.

I am sure that my shipmates will be able to flesh out for you this very brief synopsis of some of the factors behind the British dominance during this period. There are whole books dedicated to any one of the factors that I have touched upon, not to mention the different approaches to gunnery and the use of the ubiquitous Carronades used by the British later in the period. I am sure that there will be as many opinions as there are books on the subject.
I hope that this attempt to answer your question will serve to open up a debate on this vast subject here at the Anchorage.
Rob.

[Capn Duff]

Historically, yes the RN was dominant, I suppose apart from the training and discipline, what helped was that most RN ships were at sea so had plenty of experience with ship handling and gunnery, most of the other beligerents were blocked up in port and were stagnating and poorly trained, The French tended to transfer most of the trained gunners to the army after Trafalgar.
That been said, in game terms you will find there is no dominance as such unless you use some of the optional rules.
Lately we have been having a big discussion with the Spanish fleet whose stats seem to be vastly superior to their actual performance. So you can have some pretty even games.
Unfortunately we also have no set rules for fleet actions so for large SOL actions you will need your own rules, however frigates seem to be more independant but dont last long in a firefight.
You will enjoy though despite this, any further questions just ask

[Rfkadow]

Thank you for your reply Rob. There's really a lot to chew on in your post. I particularly appreciate you mentioning admiral Byng as that's opened up a whole new line of reading for me and he serves, in my mind at least, as a sort of foil for admiral Nelson, who I mistakenly took to be representative for British naval officers in general. I'll be coming back to this particular post for months.

[Rfkadow]

Thanks for the reply Chris. I'm curious, if you were designing the game would you stat ships to attempt to mimic historical actions, or to make a more balanced game? (If you've already answered this maybe you can just point me to the appropriate thread.). For me this game is like a great big history book (if I just want to zip around and shoot at things I'll play X-wing!) so personally I'd try to agree on some house rules/stats to recreate a more historically accurate conflict. To each their own I suppose.

[Bligh]

Well Ryan, you are obviously a man after my own heart. Start me off and I consume every fact about a subject that I can and then branch out into any sideline of the subject that I fancy. I look at the Gun-makers of the period and dueling, sword-smiths, the coinage of several nations, clothing (thanks to Mrs Bligh), and I am now struggling with some of the English religious sects of the period.
We do have a small section on book reviews, and you may find it interesting. Although the reviews are somewhat cursory in nature, they may lead you to some interesting titles.

https://sailsofglory.org/forumdispla...4-Book-Reviews

We have a variety of actions for you to peruse, both historical and fictional. For instance we enacted both the Battle of Lissa and the Nile at our Doncaster get together weekend last year. This year we will be doing Trafalgar, and I will be attempting a part historical and partly enhanced version of Lord Cochrane's attack on Valdivia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_of_Valdivia.

You might also find some of our Solo Campaign games using Herkybird's solo rules system of use in your research.

https://sailsofglory.org/forumdispla...gn-Discussions

Hope that this gives you some insight into what is going on and just how far you can venture if you wish to.

Ensign Patch and hi Pirate games are a good case in point. With a good basis in Naval history and ship handling or even just a cursory knowledge of the basic rules of the game, let your imagine lead you where it will. the whole object of the game, as Andre the game's designer states, is just to have a good time and enjoy playing. If you can find some friends to enjoy playing it with you so much the better.

Rob.

[Rfkadow]

Thanks again Rob for the wealth of information you've connected me to. I expect I'll be quiet on the forums for some time while I dig into this. I can't thank you as I ought to. I've learned more about sailing and naval warfare in the week since I joined this website than in the previous four decades.

Ryan

[Capn Duff]

Hi Ryan,
This is my opinion of the game, it is up to you of course if you agree or not, same for the other members of the forum.

The game as it is, I believe, is set up as a game, giving a feel for Napoleonic naval warfare. If you are looking for a high tech simulation, this is not it.
I like the game as it stands though I do think it is a bit on the bloody side, but makes a quick and satisfying game.
If you use the advanced rules the game becomes better in my opinion more detailed, but still does not take into account any enhancements of ships, crew training, ship handling.
There are optional rules which if used can act like the old National Characteristics of Napoleonic land games, which make the game appear to be more historical. Ie the Gunners and Crew require training, but to be fair you will find it difficult to get casual gamers to play using these. Also some of the stats seem out, for instance the Amazon frigates too weak and the Spanish, far too strong.
The game has introduced some Carronade rules which help the British a tad but the rules are a bolt on and can be complicated.
I am not sure that giving the game National characteristics would enhance the game but it needs something. However adjusting the stats of the ships for some effects I do think would be a good thing as would penalising some others.
As I started the above is just my opinion, see how you agree or not after a few games, get to the advanced rules when you can you will enjoy more but it will slow down with all the damage rules.