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Thread: Forts and Shore Batteries - Research notes

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    Default Forts and Shore Batteries - Research notes

    With Ares having expressed some openness to the idea of 3d model coastal fortifications, it occurs to me that we should start doing some research and pinpointing some "star" candidates for them.

    Two big criteria we could use for determination are participation in significant engagements and extant-today status. I'm going to dedicate one post in this thread to each continent/major region thereof, broken down by country. I'd appreciate it if you guys can help nominate important installations, and websites with useful data and drawings.


    EUROPE - Scandinavia/Baltic
    Last edited by Diamondback; 02-15-2018 at 00:23.
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    EUROPE - Greenland-Iceland-British Isles, Channel & Iberian Peninsula to Gibraltar
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    EUROPE - Mediterranean Coast & Islands
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    AFRICA - N. Africa and Mediterranean Middle East
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    NORTH AMERICA - Atlantic Coast to Tip of Florida

    CANADA

    UNITED STATES
    New York
    • New York Harbor - Manhattan Island: Castle Clinton (round fort)
    • New York Harbor - Bedloes Island
    • New York Harbor - Ellis Island
    • New York Harbor - Governors Island: Castle Williams (round fort) and Fort Jay

    Maryland
    • Baltimore - Fort McHenry

    For US sites, Wikipedia has a list I just need to distill into raw data at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._United_States - we're only concerned with Second System and before; though research is complicated by the fact that the plans were destroyed when those bastard Redcoat terrorists torched the Library of Congress.
    Last edited by Diamondback; 02-15-2018 at 00:55.
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    NORTH AMERICA - Gulf of Mexico and Caribbean

    CUBA
    Havana - El Morro Castle
    Last edited by Diamondback; 02-15-2018 at 00:27.
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    NORTH AMERICA - Great Lakes and Eastern Inland Waterways
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    CENTRAL & SOUTH AMERICA - Caribbean and Atlantic Coast
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    CENTRAL & SOUTH AMERICA - Pacific Coast
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    NORTH AMERICA - Pacific Coast
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    AUSTRALIA/PACIFIC OCEAN ISLANDS
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    ASIA - Northeast Asia, Russian Far East to South China
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    ASIA - Southeast Asia/Indochina, Philippines and Dutch East Indies
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    ASIA - Indian Subcontinent, Northern and Eastern Indian Ocean Shores and Islands
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    AFRICA/ASIA - Southwest Asia - Red Sea, Arabian Sea and Western Indian Ocean Coasts and Islands South to Cape Town
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    Anywhere I missed for carving up the globe into major regions?
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    Don't know if this will be of any help in your work DB but I would hate to think you had to do some of the work again for nothing. It may help to give you a starting point.

    https://www.sailsofglory.org/showthr...fortifications

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Another thought just occurred. Some forts are already in production such as the fine El Morro by Texas amongst others at Model J Ships, Langton, and Brigade Models. It may be wise to avoid these as many of us already have their models.

    http://modeljship.com/en/

    http://www.rodlangton.com/index-2.html

    http://www.brigademodels.co.uk/

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Thanks, Rob. I figure part of the litmus test is "if anybody cares enough to call it out by name"--though we also have the problem that I don't see Ares doing official paper for an installation unless they cut either a miniature or a scenario packet for it. (Though I will say that if they were smart, they'd partner with those other shops and leverage existing tooling...)

    For the record, I feel obligated to note re historical snark that the perps of the dirty deed and the entire chain of command above them were called to balance the books on their accounts by the Highest of Authorities long before any of our grandparents were even thought of, so my quarrel is not with anybody here. :) Show me someone, regardless where from, who says his country doesn't have skeletons in its closet--including my own--and I'll show you either a bloody liar or a total History Class flunk-out...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    For the record, I feel obligated to note re historical snark that the perps of the dirty deed and the entire chain of command above them were called to balance the books on their accounts by the Highest of Authorities long before any of our grandparents were even thought of, so my quarrel is not with anybody here. :) Show me someone, regardless where from, who says his country doesn't have skeletons in its closet--including my own--and I'll show you either a bloody liar or a total History Class flunk-out...
    Very true DB, as we are well aware in GB.

    You don't build an Empire without underhand skullduggery, chicanery, and lots of dirty double dealing, no matter what type of glossy spin is put on it later. Now I'll shut up before we are accused of discussing Chronomatic Parrots.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    As a matter of interest I have just ordered one of these from Julian's supplier Model J Ships.

    Name:  external-defense-works.jpg
Views: 113
Size:  3.6 KB


    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  22. #22

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    Thanks Rob for the purchase. Your order will be processed soon.
    Regarding pages of interest. These strengths that I sell on my website are manufactured by another person, I only do the favor of distributing them (the economic benefit that I get is minimal with these products). I did him the favor because he did not have a web page where to sell his products and I offered to start with the promotion of his products. If you are interested in seeing their items I add the link to their website. he will attend you with pleasure.

    Forts: https://hispaniasails.com/categoria-...rtificaciones/

    Other items of interst:

    https://hispaniasails.com/categoria-.../escenografia/

    https://hispaniasails.com/categoria-.../complementos/

    Best regards,
    Julián

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redcoat View Post
    Thanks Rob for the purchase. Your order will be processed soon.
    Regarding pages of interest. These strengths that I sell on my website are manufactured by another person, I only do the favor of distributing them (the economic benefit that I get is minimal with these products). I did him the favor because he did not have a web page where to sell his products and I offered to start with the promotion of his products. If you are interested in seeing their items I add the link to their website. he will attend you with pleasure.

    Forts: https://hispaniasails.com/categoria-...rtificaciones/

    Other items of interst:

    https://hispaniasails.com/categoria-.../escenografia/

    https://hispaniasails.com/categoria-.../complementos/

    Best regards,
    Julián
    Gents, I have done business with the above mentioned vendors and find them to be excellent. Recommended for sure.

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    Thank you for those links, Julian. There are some great looking items there.

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    Yes indeed there are bits and pieces that I can see working into some of my coastal strips to be sure.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  26. #26

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    It is very curious because they have made the cards for the bastions.

    https://hispaniasails.com/producto/f...o-puerto-rico/

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    Thanks for highlighting that Julián. I'm not sure they are allowed to do that using existing Ares graphics.
    Anyone any thoughts on this?
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    Thanks for highlighting that Julián. I'm not sure they are allowed to do that using existing Ares graphics.
    Anyone any thoughts on this?
    Rob.
    Honestly I would not be sure either. I do not know the licensing how it works. They do not make a copy exactly, but they use part of the design but even so I personally would not do that. As personal and own enjoyment I would not mind doing it since it is an article that is not commercialized yet but I would never sell it to the public.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    Thanks for highlighting that Julián. I'm not sure they are allowed to do that using existing Ares graphics.
    Anyone any thoughts on this?
    Rob.
    I have reservations about this... there are two ways Ares can go, either Lawyer Up, or make then an Accessory Partner/Supplier. What *I* personally would do would be to firmly assert copyright and trademark, and then offer them a license or subcontractor deal--just enough stick to make the point, and plenty of carrot to incentivize doing things The Right Way so *everybody* makes money together.

    While I use official Ares logos and imagery in things like the Content List, I have already received their specific approval for, and support of, such noncommercial projects. (And I'm not making anything off them, either...)
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    Sound advice DB.
    Your solution puts everyone in a win win situation, including we poor punters who are devoid of all these add ons which would brighten our lives.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    What *I* personally would do would be to firmly assert copyright and trademark....
    They NEED to do this, else they risk destroying any legal claims against others in the future. If they can be shown in the future to have let someone abuse their IP then thats a perfect defence for anyone else that wants to do it.

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    Dave, you wanna send a FLASH to RdM, or should I?
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    Diamondback, what is your preferred method for getting data on the forts to you?

    My group played the "Plunder the Town" scenario a while back (with fairly disastrous results for our British squadron and the hanging of our admiral for gross incompetence) and it got me interested in Admiral Vernon's failed attempt to capture Cartagena de los Indias in 1741. I've been researching the campaign with the intent of writing a series of linked scenarios for our group. There appears to be limited data online, but I have located a number of written sources on the defenses of Cartagena including Admiral Vernon's account (a digitized copy with a poorly executed OCR conversion of the text). I have located a map dating from 1741 which shows the layout of the Boca Chica forts and batteries by a Royal engineer assigned to the expedition.

    By the way, two of the forts on Hispania Sails website are from Cartagena: San Luis de Boca Chica and Manzanillo.

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redcoat View Post
    Honestly I would not be sure either. I do not know the licensing how it works. They do not make a copy exactly, but they use part of the design but even so I personally would not do that. As personal and own enjoyment I would not mind doing it since it is an article that is not commercialized yet but I would never sell it to the public.
    Just realised this is the same outfit that sells the unauthorised copies of Rod Langtons 1/1200 models turned into wrecks :(

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaDog7 View Post
    Diamondback, what is your preferred method for getting data on the forts to you?

    My group played the "Plunder the Town" scenario a while back (with fairly disastrous results for our British squadron and the hanging of our admiral for gross incompetence) and it got me interested in Admiral Vernon's failed attempt to capture Cartagena de los Indias in 1741. I've been researching the campaign with the intent of writing a series of linked scenarios for our group. There appears to be limited data online, but I have located a number of written sources on the defenses of Cartagena including Admiral Vernon's account (a digitized copy with a poorly executed OCR conversion of the text). I have located a map dating from 1741 which shows the layout of the Boca Chica forts and batteries by a Royal engineer assigned to the expedition.

    By the way, two of the forts on Hispania Sails website are from Cartagena: San Luis de Boca Chica and Manzanillo.
    Gimme some time to clear a little room in my inbox, and I'll PM you my direct line. Really must remember to set up a "burner" account for Ares business... EDIT: How bad gets a hang-on-the spot? My last game, I had to suffer the ignominy of being beaten by a tyrannosaur... then again, it was a near thing and there was a Meat Lover's pizza for the winner hanging in the balance. (Then again, I do tend to be a better "teacher" than "doer"... most of the young ladies I took out and taught to shoot in college outscored me in "bench" stuff pretty regularly.)

    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    Just realised this is the same outfit that sells the unauthorised copies of Rod Langtons 1/1200 models turned into wrecks :(
    So if Ares were to offer them a deal after cracking the whip, requiring they square up with Rod should be a non-negotiable condition of it.
    Last edited by Diamondback; 02-19-2018 at 23:20.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post

    So if Ares were to offer them a deal after cracking the whip, requiring they square up with Rod should be a non-negotiable condition of it.
    I totally agree DB, so after Dave's latest revelation, I am certainly not going to touch them with a disinfected boat hook until I have proof that they have cleaned up their act.
    I also suggest that other shipmates search their consciences before doing so as well. This is the sort of practice which impinges on honest dealers margins.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    A few more US and Canadian forts, mostly on the Great Lakes: Fort Mackinac (Mackinac Island, Michigan), Fort William (Thunder Bay, Ontario), Fort Nathan Hale (New Haven, Connecticut), Fort Niagara (Youngstown, New York).

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    Just out of interest I note that Hispania Sails have taken down their advert for the Coastal batteries card bases.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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