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Thread: Tweaked Sailing Angles

  1. #1
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    Default Tweaked Sailing Angles

    New Ship Base Cards.pdf

    It has always bugged me that SoG square riggers could go to weather better than my modern (50 year old) fore and aft rigged sloop. With the help of "Seamanship in the Age of Sail", I developed base cards more representative of the historic ships. These are still not entirely realistic, but after a play-test with a 3rd rate, I had to tweak them favorably (beating to weather was painful - in this format a 1st rate now goes to weather like a 3rd rate in my original version).

    The listed SGN 107 card is for my bomb ketch, not regular sloops of war.

    Yet to come are bases for schooners, brigantines, sloops of war, Constitution, Victory, and SGN 109 and 110.
    Last edited by Dobbs; 07-01-2017 at 07:41.

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    They look very interesting Dobbs.
    Can't wait to see you put them into action.
    I'm especially impressed with your Bomb card as I never got around to producing one for my Vulcan.
    Next Fire ships maybe?
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    New Ship Base Cards 2.pdf

    The bases across the top row are for a brigantine, an American schooner, and a British schooner. The next row is ship rigged Sloops of War and brigs, and the last is an Artesien. I have lumped my brigs in with the ship rigged SoW's for movement, with a lesser ability to take mast damage.

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    Any chance you could do one for a lateen rig? (Pretty please).

    Neil

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    Quote Originally Posted by Union Jack View Post
    Any chance you could do one for a lateen rig? (Pretty please).

    Neil
    I certainly could. What sort of ship would this lateen rig be on, and if you have a specific name , I can put that on the card.

    Bear in mind, that using these cards against standard SoG ships would put the ships using them at a serious disadvantage. Using my re-worked cards, a Concorde class frigate sails angles comparable to a 3rd rate in the original SoG cards.

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    Sails of Glory is a little bit too generous with sailing angles. Pretty much no square sailed ship can go closer to the wind than 60 degrees. On the other hand, that would make less of a difference between ships and first and second rates pretty much awful to sail anything but down wind.
    I like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dobbs View Post
    I certainly could. What sort of ship would this lateen rig be on, and if you have a specific name , I can put that on the card.

    Bear in mind, that using these cards against standard SoG ships would put the ships using them at a serious disadvantage. Using my re-worked cards, a Concorde class frigate sails angles comparable to a 3rd rate in the original SoG cards.
    I have been pondering the lateen rig, and see two options: 1) If the boat were tacked without dipping the yard, the boat would sail worse on one tack than the other. 2) If the yard was dipped around the mast, it would sail the same on both tacks, but spend more time in a red zone or something.

    I can't find any reference for large fully lateen rigged boats, so if anyone has any feedback, I'd love to hear it. The biggest I've found so far would be caravels, which kind of predate our game and aren't very large. For our purposes, I'm picturing a Sloop of War with a lateen rig, but I don't know what the class would be called, or what nationality would own it.

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    I've been knocking about the idea of converting a Swan to a lugger, and am pondering a base card for it. Does anyone have any information on how big they built luggers? I've seen a few with cannons, but so far nothing that seemed to be Swan-sized. I believe luggers were popular with the French as privateers.

    I really would like a historical basis for creating one instead of just fudging it.

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    France, Spain, other Mediterranean countries and the North African pirates operated xebecs in the 18th and 19th centuries. The biggest I have heard of is the Spanish xebec-frigate El Gama(32 guns), which was captured by the Royal Navy brig Speedy in 1801.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xebec

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    HMS Violet (1806)

    History
    UK
    Name: HMS Violet
    Acquired: 1806 by transfer
    Commissioned: December 1807
    Fate: Broken up 1812
    General characteristics
    Tons burthen: 82 (bm)
    Length:
    • 60 ft 2 34 in (18.4 m) (overall)
    • 44 ft 3 58 in (13.5 m)
    Beam: 18 ft 2 12 in (5.5 m)
    Depth of hold: 8 ft 8 in (2.6 m)
    Sail plan: Brig
    Complement: 30
    Armament: 10 × 12-pounder carronades
    Violet was a lugger that the British Royal Navy acquired from the Commissioners of Customs in 1806. She made some small captures before she was broken up in 1812.
    Between 11 February and 22 July 1806, the Royal Navy repaired Violet after receiving her from Customs. It had her fitted at Plymouth in November 1807 and commissioned her under Lieutenant Stephen Dods (or Dodd) in December, for the Channel Islands.

    In 1809 Lieutenant Davenport Sedley replaced Dodd.

    In February 1810 Violet detained Buon Consiglia, from the "Streights", and sent her into Fowey.

    Violet was in sight on 9 May 1810 when Muros captured Pere de Famille.

    Then in early August, Violet sent two small French privateers into Guernsey.

    On 11 December 1811 Violet recaptured the schooner Swift and cargo. Swift, Shephard, master, of Hull, had been sailing from Alicante when she fell prey to French privateer. Violet sent Swift into Portsmouth.







    HMS Alarm (1810)



    Name: HMS Alarm
    Acquired: 1810 by transfer
    Fate: Returned to Customs 1812 or 1813
    General characteristics
    Tons burthen: 151 4694 (bm)
    Length:
    • 71 ft 9 in (21.9 m) (overall)
    • 60 ft 8 in (18.5 m)
    Beam: 21 ft 8 in (6.6 m)
    Depth of hold: 9 ft 3 in (2.8 m)
    Sail plan: Lugger
    Complement: 40
    Armament: 8 × 12-pounder carronades
    Alarm was a lugger that the British Royal Navy acquired from the Commissioners of Customs in 1810. She made one small capture before the Navy returned her to Customs in 1812.
    In 1811 Lieutenant Robert Forbes was appointed to command Alarm at Leith. On 25 June he captured the Danish sloop Emanuel, Svend Torgenson, master.He brought her into Leith on 1 July.

    Alarm was returned to Customs in 1812.

    NB: The National Maritime Museum database refers to Alarm as a hired lugger, and gives a service period of 1810-1813.




    Hope these are of some use Dobbs.

    Rob,
    Last edited by Bligh; 07-12-2017 at 01:03.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Which company do you get the Bomb Ketches from?

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    I made my own from a Swan.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Thanks Rob I will get a Swan, and give it a go. Any tips? Alastair

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    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Thanks Rob that thread is very helpful, now my eldest son (who is a better modeler than me) will know what to do!

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    Glad to be of service sir.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dobbs View Post
    New Ship Base Cards.pdf

    It has always bugged me that SoG square riggers could go to weather better than my modern (50 year old) fore and aft rigged sloop. With the help of "Seamanship in the Age of Sail", I developed base cards more representative of the historic ships. These are still not entirely realistic, but after a play-test with a 3rd rate, I had to tweak them favorably (beating to weather was painful - in this format a 1st rate now goes to weather like a 3rd rate in my original version).

    The listed SGN 107 card is for my bomb ketch, not regular sloops of war.

    Yet to come are bases for schooners, brigantines, sloops of war, Constitution, Victory, and SGN 109 and 110.
    I just realized that this is not the file I thought it was. I will try to upload the correct file when I am next at my computer.

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    Ship Base Cards - 101, 103.pdfShip Base Cards - 102, 103, 104, 105.pdfShip Base Cards - 104, 106, 108.pdfShip Base Cards - 107.pdf

    Okay, here are the correct files of my modified sailing angles, along with some fictional ships.

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    Note that I reversed the decks for SNG101 and 103. I thought the French frigates should be faster. Also, the Amazons are Burden 3 since they are 32 gun frigates.

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    Lacey Anne and Cayman are my two brigs. Enterprise and Ranger are my schooners. Henrietta is a brigantine, and Meteor is my bomb ketch.

    I did away with the HMS and USS designations on the cards, because I thought they would just naturally be applied where appropriate in conversation.

    I also felt that small case letters looked tidier on the cards. If anyone wants a custom card, I can do it in all capitals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dobbs View Post
    Lacey Anne and Cayman are my two brigs. Enterprise and Ranger are my schooners. Henrietta is a brigantine, and Meteor is my bomb ketch.

    I did away with the HMS and USS designations on the cards, because I thought they would just naturally be applied where appropriate in conversation.

    I also felt that small case letters looked tidier on the cards. If anyone wants a custom card, I can do it in all capitals.
    Bob

    Rules are rough approximations of what you think I might do!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dobbs View Post
    Lacey Anne and Cayman are my two brigs. Enterprise and Ranger are my schooners. Henrietta is a brigantine, and Meteor is my bomb ketch.

    I did away with the HMS and USS designations on the cards, because I thought they would just naturally be applied where appropriate in conversation.

    I also felt that small case letters looked tidier on the cards. If anyone wants a custom card, I can do it in all capitals.
    What font did you use for your base cards?
    Bob

    Rules are rough approximations of what you think I might do!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bos'n View Post
    What font did you use for your base cards?
    I'll get back to you on that when I get back to my computer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dobbs View Post
    I'll get back to you on that when I get back to my computer.
    Thanks.
    Bob

    Rules are rough approximations of what you think I might do!

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    Bob, the font I use is

    BauerBodoni LT BoldCond Regular

    I found it online somewhere for free as long as I wasn't using it commercially. I'd tell you where, but it's been awhile, and I have no recollection. I was just happy to have it and no rude surprises!

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    Handy to know thanks Dobbs.
    Although not able to make cards from scratch I can doctor them fot script changes. The Font i have been using is Engravers NT which gives a pleasing second best look.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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    Hi, any chance of getting the Spanish base cards? and the Merchants please??

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    Hi and welcome to the Anchorage, Hugo!

    Is there any particular Spanish ship or merchant you are looking for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexaS View Post
    Hi and welcome to the Anchorage, Hugo!

    Is there any particular Spanish ship or merchant you are looking for?
    ....and, do you want them with the modified sailing angles?

  30. #30
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    Welcome to the Anchorage, Hugo, from here near Norwich.

  31. #31
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    I will also welcome you on behalf of all the sailors based here in the Anchorage Hugo.
    We have lots of very talented shipmates who can produce all manner of things.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

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