Le Swiftsure

[Capn Duff]

Another ship that can easily be re-flagged to give two more ships.

The Swiftsure started out as HMS Swiftsure an Elizabeth class 74 ship of the line. As part of the RN she fought at the battle of the Nile. Captured by the French in 1801 she remained in the service of France and fought at Trafalgar in 1805 where she was recaptured. As the RN had already replaced the Swiftsure with another ship in 1804 she was recommissioned back into the RN as HMS Irresistable and used as a Prison ship until broken up in 1816

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Swiftsure_(1787)

[Bligh]

That's a Le Swiftsure that I need then.
Cheers Chris.
Rob.

[Nightmoss]

Another good link. Thanks!

[csadn]

_Swiftsure_ appears to be a "cursed" name in the Royal Navy:

1573: wrecked of Dutch coast 1624.
1621: captured by Dutch 1666.
1673: present for the 1707 Scilly Isles Naval Disaster (survived); renamed _Revenge_.
1750: no issues.
1787: captured by France 1801.
1804: no issues.
1870: no issues.
1903: design flaw rendered main-deck secondaries unusable in heavy weather.
1944: collision with DD _Diamond_, resulting in fire.
1973: prematurely decommissioned due to failure of pressure hull.

[Bligh]

Not a happy history at all Chris.
Thanks for giving us the info.
Rob.

[Diamondback]

Actually, if you saw the entire list of the Bellona (SGN104 sculpt) family tree and all the ships in it, it'd curl your hair. Starting with French L'Invincible of 1744, ending with the 1810s Russian Triokh Sviatiteleis--fifty years of iteration, up-scaling and down-scaling of the same basic design.

The two easiest adds for Swiftsure are L'Invincible herself, which was a Large 74 as opposed to SGN104's "Common" (24# vs 18# UD battery), and Culloden-class Annibal (ex-HMS Hannibal).

[Capn Duff]

Thanks for the info DB, I must admit I did not check up the data with my ref books

[Bligh]

Any ideas what I can do with my spare HMS Impetueux/ Spartiate?
Anything Nile or Trafalgar spring to mind.
Rob.

[Diamondback]

I'm also still trying to find out if any of Morineau's other 74s were related to Invincible, which would further expand the pool. The Russian ships are based on 1797 Kent and Ajax, themselves stretched versions of 1757 Triumph & Valiant which were straight clones. (The long line of Commons that started with 1757 Dublin and stretched through Bellona were slightly scaled down, the six St. Albans and Worcester 64's in turn scaled down from Bellona.)

In other words: Artesien stats and deck + SGN104 miniature = passable St. Albans/Worcester.

[Diamondback]

Any ideas what I can do with my spare HMS Impetueux/ Spartiate?
Anything Nile or Trafalgar spring to mind.
Rob.

Here's a list for Trafalgar. Bear in mind this includes the followup at Cape Ortegal too... I'm looking at the existing sculpts in toto, which come from a doc that was last updated BEFORE the Undersize Wave was revealed to be under-scale. This also includes ships that are similar but not quite exact matches I've considered close enough--as noted, at game scale the only way I can keep the Bellona and Canada (competing 74 by Bately) or Royal Oak (ditto by Williams) drawings straight is by rechecking the filenames. For miniatures that have an official release I'm using that, even though I think 201 is generally closer to most British First Rates than 108.

Sculpt	British	French	Spanish
SGN101 Concorde	---	---	---
SGN102 Temeraire	Spartiate, Belleisle, Achille	Scipion, Duguay-Trouin, Mont-Blanc, Aigle, Achille, Algeciras, Fougueux, Argonaute, Redoutable, Heros, Pluton	---
SGN103 Amazon	Naiad, Euryalus, Phoebe, Aeolus, Phoenix	---	---
SGN104 Bellona	Defence, Bellerophon, Defiance, Thunderer, Orion, Ajax	Berwick, Swiftsure	---
SGN105 Hebe	Sirius, Revolutionnaire	Themis, Cornelie, Rhin, Hortense, Hermione	---
SGN106 Ocean	---	---	---
SGN107 Swan	---	---	---
SGN108 Generic First Rate (known issues)	Britannia, Royal Sovereign, Neptune 98, Temeraire 98, Dreadnought 98	---	---
SGN109 Artesien (underscale)	---	---	---
SGN110 Portland (underscale)	---	---	---
SGN111 Meregildos (underscale)	---	---	Santa Ana, Principe de Asturias
SGN112 Gautier 74 (underscale)	---	---	Bahama, San Agustin, San Francisco de Asis, San Juan Nepomuceno, San Justo
SGN201 "Victory" (known issues)	Victory	---	---

Sculpts coming in Wave 4, *not* indicating specific ships...

Sculpt	British	French	Spanish
Tonnant 80	Tonnant	Formidable, Indomptable, Bucentaure, Neptune	---
Ardent 64	Polyphemus, Africa, Agamemnon	---	---
Mahonesa 34	Santa Margarita	---	---
French Heavy EIM/Bonhomme Richard	---	---	---

[Capn Duff]

Any ideas what I can do with my spare HMS Impetueux/ Spartiate?
Anything Nile or Trafalgar spring to mind.
Rob.

HMS Impeteux was the captured French ship America, so a reflag to a French ship or the ship was also the template for the America class ship of the line so at a push you could have HMS Renown or Northumberland, both took part in the med campaign of 1800 but neither fought at Nile or Trafalgar.
Just a thought.

[Bligh]

Thanks very much for the info.
Both of your inputs will guide my future buying.
Rob.

[Diamondback]

I'll give Nile the same treatment when I find Walram's spreadsheet again.

[Capn Duff]

Nice info again DB, I got 8 of the French Tems so looking for another couple, my extra Brit Tem will now become HMS Achille and another Brit 3 decker to become the one I want a lot HMS Temeraire.
Hopefully may pick up these at the next couple of shows here in uk

[Diamondback]

Just remember, the Duguay-Trouin and Hermione of the Trafalgar campaign are not the same ships as those already released, even though were three different Temeraires commissioned under the DT name. (This Hermione is a Hortense, an improved Hebe.)

And as noted, the First Rates all have issues for everything--the 1797 Neptunes were almost as big as a First, and we had a heck of a discussion in the Stats Committee about "what can we make of these"...

[Bligh]

HMS Impeteux was the captured French ship America, so a reflag to a French ship or the ship was also the template for the America class ship of the line so at a push you could have HMS Renown or Northumberland.

Northumberland would be a nice tribute to Neil I think Chris.
Thanks.
Rob.

[Bligh]

I'll give Nile the same treatment when I find Walram's spreadsheet again.

Thanks DB.
That is very kind of you.
Rob.

[Diamondback]

Nile, same caveats as before:

Sculpt	British	French
SGN101 Concorde	---	Serieuse, Artemise
SGN102 Temeraire	---	Spartiate, Aquilon, Genereux, Timoleon
SGN103 Amazon	---	---
SGN104 Bellona	Goliath, Zealous, Orion, Audacious, Theseus, Vanguard, Defence, Bellerophon, Majestic, Alexander, Swiftsure	---
SGN105 Hebe	---	Justice, Diane
SGN106 Ocean	---	Orient
SGN107 Swan	---	---
SGN108 Generic First Rate (known issues)	---	---
SGN109 Artesien	---	---
SGN110 Portland	Leander	---
SGN111 Meregildos	---	---
SGN112 Bahama/?Ildefonso 74	---	---
SGN201 "Victory" (known issues)	---	---

Sculpts coming in Wave 4, *not* indicating specific ships...

Sculpt	British	French
Tonnant 80	---	Franklin, Tonnant, Guillaume Tell
Ardent 64		---
Mahonesa 34	---	---
French Heavy EIM/Bonhomme Richard	---	---