Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 51 to 100 of 243

Thread: A new threat to the British Fleet.

  1. #51
    Stats Committee
    Master & Commander
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Maryland
    Log Entries
    1,987
    Blog Entries
    13
    Name
    Dobbs

    Default

    Didn't someone here say that the Santisima Trinidad was shorter than the Victory? Could that be the case here, and not a scale issue?

  2. #52
    Stats Committee
    Captain
    Sweden

    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Linköping
    Log Entries
    3,943
    Blog Entries
    6
    Name
    Jonas

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmoss View Post
    I just hope they get the Santisima Trinidad scale correct? If they can manage that I imagine I can kit bash additional ship copies to the Santa Ana, etc. In the interim I'm going to look into using some of the damaged British First Rates I have on hand to kit bash a more appropriate scale Meregildos. Like Jonas has done I'll pick up some Langton Spanish stern pieces to substitute for the most obvious difference in the ships.
    I have a Spanish stern already. Perhaps I should do some comparison pictures.

    I would also do Santissima conversions.

  3. #53
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    22,275
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Jim, while I work the drawing... if the mini measures about let's say 55-57mm on main deck (probably LD) it's probably closer to 1/1000, if around 47-48mm it's 1/1200.

    EDIT: Here's the drawing for Salvador at actual-size for SGN... I'll edit it into the above too. (OOPS, forgot to rescale, gimme a minute.) RE-edit: fixed.
    Attachment 27893
    I think DB has the truth of this conundrum.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  4. #54
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    22,275
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TexaS View Post
    I have a Spanish stern already. Perhaps I should do some comparison pictures.

    I would also do Santissima conversions.
    Anything that you can do in this respect will not only be a greatly appreciated addition, but may also help to shed more light on what can be done to rectify the error for those of us with the skills to do so.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  5. #55
    Admiral of the White
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    4,568
    Name
    Jim

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TexaS View Post
    I have a Spanish stern already. Perhaps I should do some comparison pictures.

    I would also do Santissima conversions.
    This is the Santa Ana Langton stern piece I expect to place onto a British First Rate. I think it will look reasonably good, but we'll have to see.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSC02576.jpg 
Views:	48 
Size:	146.5 KB 
ID:	27907
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

  6. #56
    Admiral of the White
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    4,568
    Name
    Jim

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobbs View Post
    Didn't someone here say that the Santisima Trinidad was shorter than the Victory? Could that be the case here, and not a scale issue?
    I don't think there are exact plans of the ST anywhere in existence? However, there are plans for Spanish 112 gun First Rates which was the basis of her construction. That being said I don't think the ST was likely shorter than HMS Victory, but I'm not an authority on naval architecture? Maybe DB and/or David will chime in, but they may also be tired of my bringing the scale issues up in the first place?
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

  7. #57
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    22,275
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Re Santa Ana.
    Quite some difference their Jim between the Langton interpretation and the Ares one.
    Which way are you inclined to lean?
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  8. #58
    Admiral of the White
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    4,568
    Name
    Jim

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    Quite some difference their Jim between the Langton interpretation and the Ares one.
    Which way are you inclined to lean?
    Rob.
    Personally I think the Langton 1/1200 sculpts are 'closer' to what the Ares 1/1000 Santa Ana is supposed to be. Still smaller than it should be, but if I put the Langton stern piece on a British First Rate I'll be happy with that.

    As I said above if we do get the Santisima Trinidad done in 1/1000 and it's accurate I can modify as needed the other Spanish First Rates. They should be somewhat comparable as the basis is a 112 gun platform. The ST just went beyond by creating the fourth continuous gun deck.

    The largest ship at that time still goes to the Ocean class French First Rates, which was the basis for my ST kitbash you can see in my avatar. In real scale terms that kitbash is much larger that the ST would likely be at 1/1000? But she still looks good on the table.
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

  9. #59
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    22,275
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Thanks Jim. I am gradually working up the courage to emulate this and try to achieve something approaching your ST.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  10. #60
    Comptroller of the Navy Board
    Captain
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    WA
    Log Entries
    4,298
    Name
    [RESTRICTED]

    Default

    ST was 61.29m on main gundeck, Victory only 56.08. So if there's an engineering relationship between ST and the other Spanish three-plus-deckers the later ships would be cut-down versions shortened by a few ports per deck.

    Correcting the Meregildos sculpt would be too costly for Ares to do, so that's another where I'm going to suggest an Officially Licensed Correction Kit via Shapeways when comms resume.
    --Diamondback
    PMH, SME, TLA, BBB
    Historical Consultant to Ares, Wings and Sails - Unless otherwise noted, all comments are strictly Personal Opinion ONLY and not to be taken as official Company Policy.

  11. #61
    Comptroller of the Navy Board
    Captain
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    WA
    Log Entries
    4,298
    Name
    [RESTRICTED]

    Default

    Also, just MHO, but the Langton sculpt is closer to the "shape" indicated on the drawing for Salvador del Mundo's stern gallery. Maybe the "big versions" had a more circular backplane, but at least Salvador distinctly looks relatively more tall and narrow, more like a horseshoe than the end of a keg.

    If Sails had stayed 1/1200 as first planned, my Ares Meregildoses would be staying in their boxes for "collection completeness" and I'd be hiring one of you guys to build and paint me a half-dozen Langtons to go onto the bases in their place. (This also WILL be happening with my Ares Bf109K's as soon as I find 1/200 -K-specific sculpts at a price I like.)
    --Diamondback
    PMH, SME, TLA, BBB
    Historical Consultant to Ares, Wings and Sails - Unless otherwise noted, all comments are strictly Personal Opinion ONLY and not to be taken as official Company Policy.

  12. #62
    Admiral of the White
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    4,568
    Name
    Jim

    Default

    I'm pretty sure I've posted this link elsewhere on our forums, but many of the people playing Naval Action are into the history of the Age of Sail. The "Shipyard" of the Game Labs forums has some very informative links, photos and information.

    Here's the link to the Spanish thread.

    http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php...on-with-plans/

    While poking through those images I found that someone had acquired plans from the Spanish Navy website/archives?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2hwlilf.jpg 
Views:	42 
Size:	42.2 KB 
ID:	27945

    Be patient as it takes some time for it to load.

    www.armada.mde.es

    And there's a history section although I've not located the ship plans yet?

    The Battle of Trafalgar is also covered.

    http://www.armada.mde.es/ArmadaPorta...algar_by_aller
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

  13. #63
    2nd Lieutenant
    United States

    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    TX
    Log Entries
    806
    Blog Entries
    1
    Name
    Hugh

    Default

    Those look closer to ares than Langton. Good job those men! Shame about them being off on scale

  14. #64
    Comptroller of the Navy Board
    Captain
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    WA
    Log Entries
    4,298
    Name
    [RESTRICTED]

    Default

    Jim, that drawing, though I don't know what it's of, looks more like the Ares sculpt than the Langton. Also, the length I cited was for the shorter variation of the Meregildos design, the longer was IIRC a couple meters longer, maybe halfway between Victory and Trinidad.
    --Diamondback
    PMH, SME, TLA, BBB
    Historical Consultant to Ares, Wings and Sails - Unless otherwise noted, all comments are strictly Personal Opinion ONLY and not to be taken as official Company Policy.

  15. #65
    Stats Committee
    Master & Commander
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Maryland
    Log Entries
    1,987
    Blog Entries
    13
    Name
    Dobbs

    Default

    My Principe de Asturias arrived today, and right off I saw that Ares used the masts and sails from the 1st wave 74's to rig it. That probably accounts for the size of the hull. A first rate hull would have been oversized for the rig. Ares probably didn't want to risk the complaints and packaging issues with the 1st rate masts, and thought we'd let the scale shift slide? It's a very attractive miniature, it just doesn't measure up size-wise to the other 1st Rates.

    Did the Spanish have any notable 2nd Rates that might be represented by these ships? I don't know much about second rates in general.

  16. #66
    2nd Lieutenant
    United States

    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    TX
    Log Entries
    806
    Blog Entries
    1
    Name
    Hugh

    Default

    Can some one put a shot up next to a British and French first rate?

  17. #67
    Comptroller of the Navy Board
    Captain
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    WA
    Log Entries
    4,298
    Name
    [RESTRICTED]

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobbs View Post
    My Principe de Asturias arrived today, and right off I saw that Ares used the masts and sails from the 1st wave 74's to rig it. That probably accounts for the size of the hull. A first rate hull would have been oversized for the rig. Ares probably didn't want to risk the complaints and packaging issues with the 1st rate masts, and thought we'd let the scale shift slide? It's a very attractive miniature, it just doesn't measure up size-wise to the other 1st Rates.

    Did the Spanish have any notable 2nd Rates that might be represented by these ships? I don't know much about second rates in general.
    Thanks for pointing that out, Dobbs--I just tossed up a draft of my "W-T-F'ing-F?!" note to Ares for community review, and I'd appreciate it if you'd cross-post a reminder over there. :)

    Second Rates were uniquely British, I'm afraid.
    --Diamondback
    PMH, SME, TLA, BBB
    Historical Consultant to Ares, Wings and Sails - Unless otherwise noted, all comments are strictly Personal Opinion ONLY and not to be taken as official Company Policy.

  18. #68
    Able Seaman
    Australia

    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    South Aust
    Log Entries
    59
    Name
    Alan

    Default

    A quick look on Wiki and measurements of 3 the big ships...measurements in gun deck meters.

    wiki stat/my measurement

    Royal Sovereign 56/55
    Impérial 65/60
    Santa Ana 59/50

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Side View.jpg 
Views:	43 
Size:	111.8 KB 
ID:	27946

    If you look at the gap at the front you can see even more of a difference.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Front View.jpg 
Views:	47 
Size:	139.8 KB 
ID:	27947

    The Ocean Class starts at the rear edge of the base while the other 2 start part way through the name plate.

    Some ships on the wiki mention length of gundeck specifically and some don't specify.

    Santa Ana from my eyeballs looks to be larger than a Nepomuceno 55/48 but a smidge smaller than a Temeraire 56/56.

    It's a shame this happened this late in the range (same as the 64's rigging for tornado weather) and that they market it as 1/1000th scale when that is clearly not the case
    which I believe under Australian Consumer Law requires a full refund if one so chooses as that is not what you have received.

    The Trinidad is listed as 61 so will be interesting to see where it lies in relation.

  19. #69
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    22,275
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Thanks for the comparison Alan. It does not make me feel any better about things, but one picture is worth ........ etc.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  20. #70
    Comptroller of the Navy Board
    Captain
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    WA
    Log Entries
    4,298
    Name
    [RESTRICTED]

    Default

    ThreeDecks is better than Wikipedia... it draws from more reliable sources, and for game purposes except when countermanded by BWAS or FWAS it's the "game bible." (IMO they OVER-rely on it and should lean more on scholarly sources like Winfield, but...)

    BTW, Rob, if you think the draft note I posted in the Wardroom would be more appropriate somewhere else, please move accordingly. :)
    --Diamondback
    PMH, SME, TLA, BBB
    Historical Consultant to Ares, Wings and Sails - Unless otherwise noted, all comments are strictly Personal Opinion ONLY and not to be taken as official Company Policy.

  21. #71
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    22,275
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    I think it is in exactly the right place to get the maximum exposure to the members DB.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  22. #72
    Captain of the Fleet
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    South Glos
    Log Entries
    2,221
    Name
    Chris

    Default

    Just read DB mail and I think it captures the aura of discontent and growing dissapointment, I am sure most are aware of my opinion of at least one on the list.
    But what .i do seem to have missed is the sail issue, where has this been discussed ?

  23. #73
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    22,275
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Starts at post 47 here Chris.

    http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...ghlight=series

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  24. #74
    Admiral of the White
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    4,568
    Name
    Jim

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Jim, that drawing, though I don't know what it's of, looks more like the Ares sculpt than the Langton. Also, the length I cited was for the shorter variation of the Meregildos design, the longer was IIRC a couple meters longer, maybe halfway between Victory and Trinidad.
    I just posted that as a representation of some of the drawings you could find on the Game Labs forum thread. At least some of those drawings seem to have come from 'official' sources in Spain?

    IMHO I think the Ares stern sculpt is too much like a horseshoe (too verticle) and the Langton too much like a barrel hoop (too round)? I think the actual stern galleries might have been somewhere in between?

    2nd Rate Real Fenix

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	RealFenix.jpg 
Views:	37 
Size:	196.7 KB 
ID:	27958

    Model of Princiipe de Asturias

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	PrinceAsturias.jpg 
Views:	38 
Size:	169.1 KB 
ID:	27959
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

  25. #75
    2nd Lieutenant
    United States

    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    TX
    Log Entries
    806
    Blog Entries
    1
    Name
    Hugh

    Default

    Cant see your pictures Jim.

  26. #76
    Admiral of the White
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    4,568
    Name
    Jim

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hjl View Post
    Cant see your pictures Jim.
    Perhaps they're somehow being blocked? I see them fine?
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

  27. #77
    Admiral of the White
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    4,568
    Name
    Jim

    Default

    Seeing as Alan brought this up in post #68 I'm going to post four photos I took comparing the Argonauta (Temeraire) with the San Francisco de Asis (Nepomuceno). Were the historical ships really that much different in size? What figures I could find may not be accurate?

    San Francisco de Asis (Nepomuceno)
    W 51' 4"
    L 196' 4"
    H 25; 1"

    Argonauta (Temeraire)

    W 51' 2"
    L 185'
    H 21' 6"

    Argonauta on Right
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SanFran-Heroe1.jpg 
Views:	38 
Size:	212.4 KB 
ID:	27960

    Argonauta on Right
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SanFran-Heroe2.jpg 
Views:	39 
Size:	175.2 KB 
ID:	27961

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SanFran-Heroe3.jpg 
Views:	39 
Size:	225.0 KB 
ID:	27962

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	SanFran-Heroe4.jpg 
Views:	39 
Size:	176.9 KB 
ID:	27963
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

  28. #78
    Comptroller of the Navy Board
    Captain
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    WA
    Log Entries
    4,298
    Name
    [RESTRICTED]

    Default

    Jim, the other thing is that various sources at Wikipedia aren't always consistent about which "foot" they're using between the Spanish Burgos foot, French pied du roi or English Imperial foot. This is why when we're doing research for Ares, we *always* rely on metric measurements... and ALWAYS go to the more reliable ThreeDecks first.

    Also, do remember that the sculpt is specifically Bahama as-taken (which is really a 64-gun hull that's been up-gunned and slightly enlarged in rebuild), and Temeraire is a *very big* interpretation of the 74-gun layout, only exceeded in size by some of the American designs like Independence and Washington before revision into "spar-deckers". Temeraire is 55.87m for "reference design", Bahama is 53.34 while a purpose-built Gautier 74 (most of the SGN112 names) would be in the high-54- to low-55-meter range, San Juan Nepomuceno specifically and many of her sisters running 55.17, so for a "sculpt basis" the difference should be around 2.5mm on main gun deck.
    Last edited by Diamondback; 02-04-2017 at 12:01.
    --Diamondback
    PMH, SME, TLA, BBB
    Historical Consultant to Ares, Wings and Sails - Unless otherwise noted, all comments are strictly Personal Opinion ONLY and not to be taken as official Company Policy.

  29. #79
    Admiral of the White
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    4,568
    Name
    Jim

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Jim, the other thing is that various sources at Wikipedia aren't always consistent about which "foot" they're using between the Spanish Burgos foot, French pied du roi or English Imperial foot. This is why when we're doing research for Ares, we *always* rely on metric measurements... and ALWAYS go to the more reliable ThreeDecks first.

    Also, do remember that the sculpt is specifically Bahama as-taken (which is really a 64-gun hull that's been up-gunned and slightly enlarged in rebuild), and Temeraire is a *very big* interpretation of the 74-gun layout, only exceeded in size by some of the American designs like Independence and Washington before revision into "spar-deckers". Temeraire is 55.87m for "reference design", Bahama is 53.34 while a purpose-built Gautier 74 (most of the SGN112 names) would be in the high-54- to low-55-meter range, San Juan Nepomuceno specifically and many of her sisters running 55.17, so for a "sculpt basis" the difference should be around 2.5mm on main gun deck.
    I was aware of the Burgos foot, which should be 278.6mm. I wasn't using Wikipedia, but Todo a babor instead. If my math is right and the measurements on Todo a babor are accurate the Argonauta should be 55.72 meters long? San Francisco de Asis would be 54.71 meters long?

    I'd forgotten the Bahama design aspect of these sculpts, which likely changes things significantly. As for actual sculpt differences of around 2.5mm I just measured them both. Main deck of San Francisco from cathead to stern is 48mm. Argonauta from cathead to stern is 56mm.

    In any case I'll refrain from muddying the waters anymore as I'm just a rank amateur when it comes to naval history and architecture. That's yours and David's turf.
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

  30. #80
    Comptroller of the Navy Board
    Captain
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    WA
    Log Entries
    4,298
    Name
    [RESTRICTED]

    Default

    55.72 is low but within the observed range for Temeraires. It would help to find out exactly which ship and drawing Ares based the sculpt on, as there are multiple draughts at Greenwich and that doesn't even get into what might be in the French naval archives.

    And keep raising questions, they bring up matters worthy of discussion--along with possibly providing further data on Ares's underlying structural problems and the effort to diagnose and fix them. Right now, about all we really know is that SOMETHING is broken over there at the CAD-model-creation level.
    --Diamondback
    PMH, SME, TLA, BBB
    Historical Consultant to Ares, Wings and Sails - Unless otherwise noted, all comments are strictly Personal Opinion ONLY and not to be taken as official Company Policy.

  31. #81
    Comptroller of the Navy Board
    Captain
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    WA
    Log Entries
    4,298
    Name
    [RESTRICTED]

    Default

    Jim, main is not the Weather Deck, on SOL's it's the Lower Gun Deck. That may be part of the measurement problem...
    --Diamondback
    PMH, SME, TLA, BBB
    Historical Consultant to Ares, Wings and Sails - Unless otherwise noted, all comments are strictly Personal Opinion ONLY and not to be taken as official Company Policy.

  32. #82
    Able Seaman
    Australia

    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    South Aust
    Log Entries
    59
    Name
    Alan

    Default

    I'm no expert either, but I would have thought that working in 1000th scale would have made it easier when working in meters.
    ie: 50 meters = 50 millimeters

    I did a lookup on threedecks on ships from the classes and did a quick measure with digital verniers on upperdecks (give or take due to sails) so I hope I'm fairly close.

    Swan 29m 31mm
    Amazon 38m 38mm
    Concorde 44m 43mm
    Hebe 46m 45mm
    Bellona 51m 53mm
    Nepomuceno* 54m 48mm
    Temeraire 56m 56mm
    Umpire 58m 56mm
    Meregildos 59m 50mm
    Ocean 64m 60mm
    Victory 56m 58mm
    Constitution 53m 59mm

    * I took an average of 53 -55

    There are some very interesting comparisons.

    Now I'm not looking for perfection but something does seem to have gone wrong with the latest Spanish ships in relation to scale.

  33. #83
    Ordinary Seaman
    Italy

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Liguria
    Log Entries
    46
    Name
    Franco

    Default

    Good evening, this is my first post, and I am no expert too.

    I finally had the opportunity to hold in my hands a minigildos (PdA).

    The first impression is positive. Nice sculpting, nice colors and a nice stern sculpt, but…
    As you already noticed the scale is not 1:1000. They don’t fit with the other 1st rates.
    Most likely also the other 1st rates are not perfect scale models, to me length and beam are not 1:1000 (they are smaller) but are a reasonable representation of the real McCoy and, most important, they are consistent.
    For me too, according to the info I found, compared to the British 1st rates, they should be, for consistency, a little longer (2mm), while the beam should be more or less the same. They also sit too low on the water.
    According to me and my “consistency” rule, to sail with glory, the meregildos' hull should have been:
    • Lenght 57mm (at waterline, they are only 50) (If more than 57 they would have been too close to the French 120)
    • Beam 15mm (at waterline, they are only 13)
    They are also shorter than a 74 of which they share the masts.
    I personally don’t like this choice; I would have also preferred furled curses. I also don’t like the absence of guns on the Quarterdeck and Forecastle as on the previous models. I am not looking for perfection too, just consistency.
    What to say, they don’t offer an imposing view, they are simply disappointing. I am waiting to see “live” a Nepumeceno, maybe the minigildos will sit together well with the nepuminiceno in a Spanish fleet, as long as you see them from a distance and they don’t sail ICW the Argonauta.

  34. #84
    Comptroller of the Navy Board
    Captain
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    WA
    Log Entries
    4,298
    Name
    [RESTRICTED]

    Default

    Alan, part of that is you're measuring too high--the Main Deck, which is what is always used for length unless otherwise noted, is usually pretty close to the waterline. (On SOL's and two-deck cruisers like Portland it's the lower deck, on frigates and smaller it's the deck BELOW the gun deck. Maybe waterline measurements would be a better "baseline" to work from for measuring minis...

    Franco, you just coined a new nickname! :) "Minigildos": An undersized, wrong-scale miniature.
    --Diamondback
    PMH, SME, TLA, BBB
    Historical Consultant to Ares, Wings and Sails - Unless otherwise noted, all comments are strictly Personal Opinion ONLY and not to be taken as official Company Policy.

  35. #85
    Stats Committee
    Master & Commander
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Maryland
    Log Entries
    1,987
    Blog Entries
    13
    Name
    Dobbs

    Default

    I have an idea! How about that Minigildos can only be hit at long range since they look so far away...

  36. #86
    2nd Lieutenant
    United States

    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    TX
    Log Entries
    806
    Blog Entries
    1
    Name
    Hugh

    Default

    Haha, I like it

  37. #87
    Comptroller of the Navy Board
    Captain
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    WA
    Log Entries
    4,298
    Name
    [RESTRICTED]

    Default

    Measuring based on an SJN rather than Bahama, both SGN111 and 112 appear to be 1/1200, or 5/6 the size they should be. Somebody tell Rory he got some ships from Ares in his scale!

    Measuring 112 as Bahama, the disparity is a little smaller but still there.
    --Diamondback
    PMH, SME, TLA, BBB
    Historical Consultant to Ares, Wings and Sails - Unless otherwise noted, all comments are strictly Personal Opinion ONLY and not to be taken as official Company Policy.

  38. #88
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    22,275
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobbs View Post
    I have an idea! How about that Minigildos can only be hit at long range since they look so far away...
    I was thinking of only sailing them in the background Dobbs.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  39. #89
    2nd Lieutenant
    UK

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Dorset
    Log Entries
    961
    Name
    Rory

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Measuring based on an SJN rather than Bahama, both SGN111 and 112 appear to be 1/1200, or 5/6 the size they should be. Somebody tell Rory he got some ships from Ares in his scale!

    Measuring 112 as Bahama, the disparity is a little smaller but still there.
    Only just seen this. I still look in time to time. Nice one D.B. I must say I'm sorry that you all have a problem with a long awaited for model. It is not fair that you are all let down with size of the model. It's no joke for you all.
    Be safe
    Rory

  40. #90
    Surveyor of the Navy
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Log Entries
    3,143
    Name
    David

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    I was thinking of only sailing them in the background Dobbs.
    Rob.

  41. #91
    Admiral of the White
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    4,568
    Name
    Jim

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Jim, main is not the Weather Deck, on SOL's it's the Lower Gun Deck. That may be part of the measurement problem...
    Understood, but I wanted to measure a surface that I'd get better readings on between the two ships (I only have a metal straight edge).
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

  42. #92
    Admiral of the White
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    4,568
    Name
    Jim

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Comandante View Post
    Good evening, this is my first post, and I am no expert too.

    I finally had the opportunity to hold in my hands a minigildos (PdA).

    The first impression is positive. Nice sculpting, nice colors and a nice stern sculpt, but…
    As you already noticed the scale is not 1:1000. They don’t fit with the other 1st rates.
    Most likely also the other 1st rates are not perfect scale models, to me length and beam are not 1:1000 (they are smaller) but are a reasonable representation of the real McCoy and, most important, they are consistent.
    For me too, according to the info I found, compared to the British 1st rates, they should be, for consistency, a little longer (2mm), while the beam should be more or less the same. They also sit too low on the water.
    According to me and my “consistency” rule, to sail with glory, the meregildos' hull should have been:
    • Lenght 57mm (at waterline, they are only 50) (If more than 57 they would have been too close to the French 120)
    • Beam 15mm (at waterline, they are only 13)
    They are also shorter than a 74 of which they share the masts.
    I personally don’t like this choice; I would have also preferred furled curses. I also don’t like the absence of guns on the Quarterdeck and Forecastle as on the previous models. I am not looking for perfection too, just consistency.
    What to say, they don’t offer an imposing view, they are simply disappointing. I am waiting to see “live” a Nepumeceno, maybe the minigildos will sit together well with the nepuminiceno in a Spanish fleet, as long as you see them from a distance and they don’t sail ICW the Argonauta.
    Greetings Franco and welcome to the Anchorage. Thanks also for your input.
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

  43. #93
    Admiral of the White
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    4,568
    Name
    Jim

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    LOL. It's all about perspective!
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

  44. #94
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    22,275
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    That's the way I see it too Jim.
    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  45. #95
    Admiral of the Fleet.
    Baron
    England

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Notts
    Log Entries
    22,275
    Blog Entries
    22
    Name
    Rob

    Default

    I would also like to Join Jim in welcoming you to the Anchorage Franco, and thank you for your input on this somewhat vexing mistake in the scales of our long awaited Spanish First Rates, which they most assuredly arn't.

    Rob.
    The Business of the commander-in-chief is first to bring an enemy fleet to battle on the most advantageous terms to himself, (I mean that of laying his ships close on board the enemy, as expeditiously as possible); and secondly to continue them there until the business is decided.

  46. #96
    2nd Lieutenant
    United States

    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    TX
    Log Entries
    806
    Blog Entries
    1
    Name
    Hugh

    Default

    Can some one put up a picture of the spa ish first rates next to the other nations first rates?

  47. #97
    Comptroller of the Navy Board
    Captain
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    WA
    Log Entries
    4,298
    Name
    [RESTRICTED]

    Default

    Hugh, see post 68 in this thread.
    --Diamondback
    PMH, SME, TLA, BBB
    Historical Consultant to Ares, Wings and Sails - Unless otherwise noted, all comments are strictly Personal Opinion ONLY and not to be taken as official Company Policy.

  48. #98
    2nd Lieutenant
    United States

    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    TX
    Log Entries
    806
    Blog Entries
    1
    Name
    Hugh

    Default

    oh wow, its tiny! can some one put some pictures of them next to one of the british 3rds?

  49. #99
    Stats Committee
    Master & Commander
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Maryland
    Log Entries
    1,987
    Blog Entries
    13
    Name
    Dobbs

    Default

    I can't see any of the pictures. Does this mean that all of Wave 3 is 1/1200 scale? I have been thinking that the hulls of the Portland and Artesien look smaller than they should next to my British 74's.

  50. #100
    Stats Committee
    Master & Commander
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Maryland
    Log Entries
    1,987
    Blog Entries
    13
    Name
    Dobbs

    Default

    Comparing the Portland and Artesien to a Hebe frigate leaves me unsatisfied too. An Artesien weighed in at 1200 tons, a Portland at 1000, and a Hebe at 700, and yet the Hebe miniature looks more substantial than both of the new minis?

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •