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Thread: Latest wave of ships.

  1. #1
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    Default Latest wave of ships.

    Well received a nice large box, with one of each of the new ships. And placed an order for GHQ Santissima Trinidad. So now I have almost 60-70 ships. How about you guys, anyone stocking up on the new ships?

    Shane

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    They have not sailed across the Atlantic yet, Shane.

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    Order awaiting funds to pay for it here...
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    One Spanish 1st rate, one Spanish 3rd rate (under RN flag) and two of each (French/RN) of the smaller vessels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stuh42asl View Post
    Well received a nice large box, with one of each of the new ships. And placed an order for GHQ Santissima Trinidad. So now I have almost 60-70 ships. How about you guys, anyone stocking up on the new ships?

    Shane
    How does the 1:1200 Santisima compare Shane?
    Is the scale differential very obvious?
    Rob.

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    Hi Rob

    I ordered it yesterday, since it is coming from Alberta, Canada, and it is Christmas time......I should get it ohhhhhhh, when I reach my retirement age. :) I will see the size, at 1:1200 scale it is not to far off from the 1:1000 scale sails of glory ships are.
    I would have ordered it from Langton, or Red Eagle in your neck of the woods, but the cost to get it to Canada would mean I would pay as much as I did on the model. I hate Canada Post, and import duties..........So I expect it to be about 2% smaller than the Sails of Glory ships. I will also try to rig it as well. My eyesight for small work is getting worse,but I have a lot of good examples here to go by.

    Shane

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    I've been setting money aside for this wave for over a year, so I ended up getting two of each model. No base card flipping for me.
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    How does the 1:1200 Santisima compare Shane?
    Is the scale differential very obvious?
    Rob.
    Rob, photos in my album compare the two ST's from GHQ and Langton. Silver is GHQ and red is Langton. I don't have a shot of the Ares ST version I did, side by side with either of these, but the 1/1200 ones are definitely smaller. I doubt that would matter on a game table, but for some it might?

    http://sailsofglory.org/album.php?al...achmentid=8401
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmoss View Post
    Rob, photos in my album compare the two ST's from GHQ and Langton. Silver is GHQ and red is Langton. I don't have a shot of the Ares ST version I did, side by side with either of these, but the 1/1200 ones are definitely smaller. I doubt that would matter on a game table, but for some it might?

    http://sailsofglory.org/album.php?al...achmentid=8401
    If the GHQ is smaller.........that is fine, the alternative is to wait another year for the SOG ship to come out. BTW does anyone here have a copy of the ship card and the ship display they could share with an old landlubber:)It would make a 50 year old a very happy boy.

    Thanks

    Shane

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    Thanks for that comparison Jim.
    As you all say, if indeed it is only one year to wait we will do well.
    I may have to bite the bullet and accept the slight size anomaly.
    As one gets older actually making a decision gets harder, and I have been umming and arring too much about this one,
    Rob.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stuh42asl View Post
    If the GHQ is smaller.........that is fine, the alternative is to wait another year for the SOG ship to come out. BTW does anyone here have a copy of the ship card and the ship display they could share with an old landlubber:)It would make a 50 year old a very happy boy.

    Thanks

    Shane
    Shane, I did a very very rough version on this thread. The numbers were guesses/approximations at best. With the arrival of the Santa Ana and her daunting broadside I do wonder just how powerful Ares might be tempted to make the Santisima Trinidad? I've never even thought about making a ship log for my kitbashed ST.

    http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.p...isima+trinidad
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    I just would want to compare the broad side weight of Santissima and perhaps HMS Victory before determining the stats. Something I think Ares forgot to do when deciding the stats for Santa Ana.

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    That would indeed seem to be the case Jonas.
    Rob.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stuh42asl View Post
    Well received a nice large box, with one of each of the new ships. And placed an order for GHQ Santissima Trinidad. So now I have almost 60-70 ships. How about you guys, anyone stocking up on the new ships?

    Shane
    With the exception of purchasing just one each of the Spanish 1st Rates, I got two each of everything else. They are currently blockading the Christmas Village beneath our tree (so much for the traditional train set!). Now waiting for ARES to develop a couple Spanish frigates and the Santissima Trinidad to finish off my wife's armada and hoping for a few US ships (like the Chesapeake, Constellation, Essex, etc.) for myself ... as well as maybe a few brigs and merchantmen? ... and I'll be satisfied. I've already outgrown my storage space. I need a bigger box!

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    We all need a bigger box Michael. Then we get one. Then we complain about the lack of ships. Then Ares release them. Then we buy them. Then we need a bigger box. Then we get one. Then we.........

    I refer you to the thread "I am a Sails addict because........."

    Have a very Happy Christmas Mike, getting seven bells knocked out of you by your wife's incomplete Fleet, and think how much worse it would be if she also had two more Frigates and Santissima Trinidad also backing her up.
    Rob.

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    Ares has updated the point values .pdf to include the new ships. File can be downloaded here:

    http://www.aresgames.eu/11269
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
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    Very useful Jim thanks.
    I have just downloaded.
    Now the real work starts.
    Rob.

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    You'll note very quickly I'm sure that the Santa Ana is ranked one point over HMS Hibernia. Where does that put Santisima Trinidad if/when she comes out I wonder?
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
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  19. #19
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    A very good question Jim.
    I imagine surrounded by British 74s.
    Rob.

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    Thank you for the 'Heads up' about the new version of the points table, Jim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmoss View Post
    You'll note very quickly I'm sure that the Santa Ana is ranked one point over HMS Hibernia. Where does that put Santisima Trinidad if/when she comes out I wonder?
    Keeping in mind the difference between HMS Victory and Santissima Trinidads in broadside weight is 40lb and Victory being a better sailer I would say at about that points value. That is of course if Ares doesn't make up unexplainable values for it as was done for Santa Ana.

    But I guess they imply that the Spanish should have all bad traits possible for their sailors to make historical outcomes even possible with those stats for the ships...

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    That opens up a whole extra world of questions Jonas. It depends exactly what type of play individual gamers would prefer. I am against setting artificial stats just to push people into adopting the Special Abilities if they don't want to take them on board. If that were indeed the idea.
    Rob.

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    I don't know much about the Spanish ships, but it seems to me that the game should reflect the ship's innate capabilities, and anything such as rate of fire and handling should be left to the players. I do find the "9" broadside hard to imagine.

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    From what we know about Spanish gunnery at sea it is ridiculous Dobbs. Or as we would say in the U.K. a trifle hard to swallow old chap.
    Rob.

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    Perhaps someone could run the Hibernia against the Santa Ana and see if the single point is justified. I can't imagine the Hibernia would come off the victor most of the time.

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    I've dropped an email to Roberto and Andrea to see if they can shed any light on the Santa Ana mystery :)

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    Thanks Dave.
    It is a bit of an interesting situation amongst one or two others.
    Rob.

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    Wasn't there apoint about the larger, very large 3 deckers (Spanish) having trouble opening the lower gunports in anything but good weather for fear of flooding?

  29. #29
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    A very good point Neil.
    I'm sure that we can work some thing around that to make them more player friendly.
    Rob.

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    I'm loathe to go down the Langton route and restrict french Spanish sailing and gunnery whilst enhancing the British et al. Otherwise why choose the nations with no chance. If you want historical accuracy then there's house rules otherwise lets keep it a fair playing field and fun.

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    I think what sparked this off Neil was the fact that the Spanish new releases seemed to be unfair by being overpowered for the number of guns.
    I am now waiting for Dave to get a response from Roberto on his query.
    Rob.

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    Yes, the Spanish is game-wise overpowered and historically-wise overpowered.

    I easily forgive game-wise overpowered if motivated by historical facts and I easily forgive if you downgrade historically overpowered for game purposes. What I have a trouble with is unmotivated overpowered ships.

    It will be hard to use them ever in any smaller ship on ship encounter due to them being so strong, and in fleet actions they will make for very un-historically balanced scenarios where the very funny historical quote from the Battle of Cape St Vincent never will have it's place.

    "There are eight sail of the line, Sir John"
    "Very well, sir"
    "There are twenty sail of the line, Sir John"
    "Very well, sir"
    "There are twenty five sail of the line, Sir John"
    "Very well, sir"
    "There are twenty seven sail of the line, Sir John"
    "Enough, sir, no more of that; the die is cast, and if there are fifty sail I will go through them"

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    Ares version:

    "There is a Meregildos, Sir John"
    "Very well, sir"
    "There are two Meregildos, Sir John"
    "Very well, sir"
    "There are three Meregildos, Sir John"
    "Very well, sir"
    "There are four Meregildos, Sir John"
    "Enough of this, sir, we will head for home"

  34. #34
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    By Jove I needed that.
    Bligh.

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    I won't be getting the Spanish ships any time soon, not enough money at the moment. I will however eagerly read any aar's from you fine people!

  36. #36
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    If you want an age of sail historical simulation Sails of Glory is not the 'game' for you. You have plenty of other rule sets to choose from (including rules from members of our site I believe?). On the other hand any game that introduces OP elements into the mix where players are consistently opting for the best ships you're at risk of ruining overall game play.

    It has to be about balance if you're going to have an engaging game where everyone can have fun.

    Do I want to play if the British are always going to win? No.
    Do I want to play if the French are always going to win? No.
    Do I want to play if the Spanish are always going to win? No.

    Feedback from Ares on the Santa Ana will be an interesting read if/when we get anything from them.
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Union Jack View Post
    Wasn't there apoint about the larger, very large 3 deckers (Spanish) having trouble opening the lower gunports in anything but good weather for fear of flooding?
    Neil,

    Some months ago I tried to work out what the formula was that ARES used to determine their ships' broadside strengths. I found that when I calculated in a lesser percent for the lower gun-deck on 1st Rates, hypothetically due to slower reloading time and "rough sea" restrictions, the formula actually matched up with their stats. I recall there were only two ships out of their whole series (and I'm talking from 1st Rates all the way down to their Sloops) that were 1 point less than my formula prescribed ... I don't recall if the two were 1st or 3rd Rates ... regardless, that was an easy fix.

    I don't have my notes immediately at hand but I believe there were three different percentage factors used based on gun weight and perceived reloading speed; deck location was the final factor which "broke the code"! Believe me, I will be pulling them out to evaluate the firepower of these new ships ... especially the 50 gunners ... before I work up their ship mats!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWBell View Post
    Neil,

    Some months ago I tried to work out what the formula was that ARES used to determine their ships' broadside strengths. I found that when I calculated in a lesser percent for the lower gun-deck on 1st Rates, hypothetically due to slower reloading time and "rough sea" restrictions, the formula actually matched up with their stats. I recall there were only two ships out of their whole series (and I'm talking from 1st Rates all the way down to their Sloops) that were 1 point less than my formula prescribed ... I don't recall if the two were 1st or 3rd Rates ... regardless, that was an easy fix.

    I don't have my notes immediately at hand but I believe there were three different percentage factors used based on gun weight and perceived reloading speed; deck location was the final factor which "broke the code"! Believe me, I will be pulling them out to evaluate the firepower of these new ships ... especially the 50 gunners ... before I work up their ship mats!
    Michael, if you're interested--I don't know if anyone has the creds to give you appropriate access with Eric on Extended Family Leave, but I'd like to nominate you as a candidate for the Anchorage Stats Committee. :)
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Michael, if you're interested--I don't know if anyone has the creds to give you appropriate access with Eric on Extended Family Leave, but I'd like to nominate you as a candidate for the Anchorage Stats Committee. :)
    Really? I'm flattered ... no, I'm HONORED! I'll accept your nomination, I only hope I can live up to the task if instated. As I've said somewhere before, I've not nearly the knowledge of the period that so many members of this site have.

    In the meantime, I think it's time I pop the cork on my Pusser's and pour a glass! Happy New Year!!

  40. #40
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    I can't allow the access, but I would PM Keith DB and see if he will do it.
    I agree with you that we could do with Mike on the Stats Committee.
    Rob.

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    Email sent to the Big Guy. :)

    UPDATE: Sounds like you're in. Thanks, Boss! :)
    Last edited by Diamondback; 12-31-2016 at 16:49.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWBell View Post
    Really? I'm flattered ... no, I'm HONORED! I'll accept your nomination, I only hope I can live up to the task if instated. As I've said somewhere before, I've not nearly the knowledge of the period that so many members of this site have.

    In the meantime, I think it's time I pop the cork on my Pusser's and pour a glass! Happy New Year!!
    We've been scratching our heads on some of Ares's stats for years, and if you've broken their code you're EXACTLY the kind of person who belongs on the team. :)
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    Afternoon Rob

    Well I have recieved the Santissima Trinidad model to day. It is smaller than the third rates but that is fine with me, but it is a very detailed model so it will be a good addition.
    So it is on to the workbench to put it together.

  44. #44
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    I look forward to seeing it Shane.
    Just for a laugh I was looking at Amazon prices for the ships and came across this



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    I look forward to seeing it Shane.
    Just for a laugh I was looking at Amazon prices for the ships and came across this


    Yeah definately out of gold for that price. I shop here in Canada, but I still shake my head at the prices. Kind of like Evil Bay. The seller has to be on glue to get that price........ Especially when I can go to Mepplemart in Toronto and get it for less than $20 Canadian. That is why I wish we had a Langton store here. The UK has some of the best miniature makers going, especially for Napoleonics. In Canada we have to get it imported. And it costs. It was 47 dollars just to get the Santisima Trinidad model to me from Alberta.
    I think that is what is killing hobby stores. It is not so much the cost of the item, but it is the cost of shipping both to the store and then to you. And the duty fees for packages over $100 is ridiculous.

  46. #46
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    Shane if you want to get Langon miniatures from vendors in the US you might want to try Waterloo Minis?

    http://waterloominis.com/

    While it's been some time since I ordered from them, they were very fast and had good replies to my inquiries.

    Another spot in the US is Brookhurst Hobbies. I've ordered nothing from them so I cannot tell you much more than that they have some of the products from Langton in their online catalog.

    http://www.brookhursthobbies.com/index.cfm?N=10

    Cheers.
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  47. #47
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    Somebody else noticed that the jib and fore staysail on the British 50s are bulging into the wind?

    Same with the French 64...

  48. #48
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    Could it just be the stays got installed backward?
    --Diamondback
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    Historical Consultant to Ares, Wings and Sails - Unless otherwise noted, all comments are strictly Personal Opinion ONLY and not to be taken as official Company Policy.

  49. #49
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    No. They are molded with the bulge in the opposite direction of the spanker. If you turn the spanker toward the wind the ship could be in the middle of tacking. (And turn the yards...)
    Last edited by TexaS; 01-03-2017 at 12:39.

  50. #50
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