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Thread: Collision damage

  1. #1
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    Default Collision damage

    Ahoy,

    do I miss something, or do only get friendly ships damaged (as written on p. 25 in the Rulesbook) during a collision? Sounds somewhat unrealistic.

  2. #2
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    That was my thought too. I basically ignore collision damage for simplicity, as to my very limited understanding of such matters, both sides tended to suffer from such events, so it doesnt affect the game significantly.

    I am sure others will disagree, but thats my tuppenceworth!

  3. #3
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    We didn't know what else to do, as collisions actually happened quite often, so we decided that all colliding ships take damage. Don't know, if this is correct, but it seemed "right".

  4. #4

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    The reason for this rule is: LEARN TO NAVIGATE - AVOID COLLISSIONS

    If you playing on the same side you can communicate and plan a strategy to beat the enemy (historical: flag signals / orders before a battle, etc.).

    You can't do this with enemy ships, so it makes sence to punish ships of the same side for misplaning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtsegler View Post
    ..., so we decided that all colliding ships take damage.
    So the biggest ship hasn't only the advantage of more firepower?

    You'll see that this housrule isn't that fair when ships of different classes fight each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Comte de Brueys View Post
    So the biggest ship hasn't only the advantage of more firepower?

    You'll see that this housrule isn't that fair when ships of different classes fight each other.
    Sven, don't forget Burden for boarding actions.

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    I play intentional (boarding) and accidental (collisions) where all ships involved take damage but that is my own house rule.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comte de Brueys View Post
    So the biggest ship hasn't only the advantage of more firepower?

    You'll see that this housrule isn't that fair when ships of different classes fight each other.
    You have a point there.

  8. #8
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    Default Re Collision damage

    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtsegler View Post
    You have a point there.
    I have often come across this problem when altering rules. Its easy to see a quick fix, but it turns out the fix messes up some other part of the rules!
    I am guilty of this! - I too have learnt it the hard way!

  9. #9
    Admiral of the Blue.
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    In that case I will observe the status quo gentlemen.
    I had not even noticed that there was a difference when colliding with an enemy.
    Must have played too much WoG.
    Thanks for pointing this out.
    Rob.

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    Another reason for no damage when colliding with an enemy ship is to discourage ramming.

    If you're playing in a large game, I suggest becoming comfortable with eyeballing what you think would occur regarding ship movement and final positioning, or the game can slow to a halt while working through RAW when multiple ships are involved. I started doing that, and have yet to receive a single complaint from the players. They're happy to get on with the action.
    “You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato

  11. #11
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    See where you are coming from. Might have to adjust my take on my house rules.

  12. #12
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    I guess the best thing is to find a house rule solution that meets with the approval of yourself and the people you play with. So long as everyone is happy, so am I!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herkybird View Post
    I guess the best thing is to find a house rule solution that meets with the approval of yourself and the people you play with. So long as everyone is happy, so am I!
    I have found that most players are pen to trying something new/different, as long as it is made clear before the game begins. The folks I have played with or run games for have been very supportive of my experimentation.
    “You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato

  14. #14
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    In last Friday's game I was asked if collision damage results in special damage.

    I thought special damage didn't count, however I can not find anything on reviewing the rules.

    For example, is special damage such as a fire, mast or crew count normally?
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  15. #15

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    God question, but I have to say that collissions with friendly ships and ground are really rare at my games.

    I would handle it like Wings of Glory - no special damages because of collision damages - only numbers (or explosions) count.

    I' think I'm on the right way because I can't imagine a fire or broken mast because of a collision.

  16. #16
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    Damage inflicted by a collision is indeed acted upon as normal Keith. Masts were brought down by either sudden shock, when rigging broke, or because of prior damage weakening them. Fire could start in several ways. Seamen dropping powder and slow match, lanterns getting knocked over, sparks from metal parts scraping together setting fallen sails on fire. Not obvious but possible.
    When we play friendly games we usually count all special damage, but not fire.
    Rob.
    Last edited by Bligh; 05-10-2016 at 01:10.

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    The most common damage from collision I remember from battles are lost bowsprits and rigging damage.
    When running aground you often lost masts to my knowledge. It's not unheard of to spring a leak either. I can't recall any cases of fires but I would think that lanterns could come loose and start a fire too. I'd say special damage would almost be more relevant than just numerical damage to the hull.

  18. #18

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    I think the chances to start to burn because of an collision is very, very little. Those Napoleonic ships were extremly secured against fire.

    In my opinion there ares some rules missing in the collision rules:

    • You should not get a collision damage if you collide with a(n) (friendly) ship, if this one was blocked/collided by/with an enemy ship before.
    • You do not get damage again if you collide with the same ship you collided with in the movement phase before.
    • Do no't count special damage while suffering collision damage.


    As said before - we have not much collision in our games Zrírndorf flight game group. The captains stay the distance and maneuver wise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    ..
    When we play friendly games we usually count all special damage, but not fire.
    Rob.
    Is there a special reason for especially ignoring fire damage, Captain Bligh?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comte de Brueys View Post
    I think the chances to start to burn because of an collision is very, very little. Those Napoleonic ships were extremly secured against fire.

    Is there a special reason for especially ignoring fire damage, Captain Bligh?
    Mainly for the reason you have given above Sven, and as I said in my post, the chance of fire is remote, "Not obvious but possible." With the unlikely nature of it happening more than once in a lifetime we decided to leave it out.

    How about this for a conclusion to a battle! Glass in safety window breaks allowing candle to fall through into Powder magazine.

    I think my chaps have been doing too much role play.
    Rob.

  20. #20

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    Funny.

    I have Stephen Biesty's "Man-Of-War" book and know about the powder storage on board of ships. (page 18 - 19)

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comte de Brueys View Post
    Funny.

    I have Stephen Biesty's "Man-Of-War" book and know about the powder storage on board of ships. (page 18 - 19)
    I guessed that you might!
    Rob.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    With the unlikely nature of it happening more than once in a lifetime we decided to leave it out.
    Indeed it's only once in a lifetime. Not that many survived from the crew of HMS Queen Charlotte. That's one of our (not that many) SGN ships, that went up in flames while NOT in battle. Add to that fires that didn't destroy the ship and ships lost to fires in battle and your up to probably more than one in ten during a SGN-ship's historical lifetime. Agreed that it shouldn't happen in every battle but eliminating the risk completely I would say would be purely because of game balance, which still is a good argument.

    I have on the other hand reduced the number of fires and leaks by using two sets of chits but only fires and leaks from one.

    Coming to think of it I will test out drawing burden number of chits regardless of friend or foe and only apply the special effects.

  23. #23
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    AH! Jonas.
    I was only talking about leaving the fire aspect out of collisions, not removing it totally.
    Rob.

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    Ok! That's better.

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    No surrender needed.
    I return your sword Captain.
    Rob.

  26. #26
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    I found that Andrea replied to a question on collision damage on the boardgamegeek site.

    Basically, he suggests special damage doesn't apply, or you could apply leaks only.

    https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/114...mage-adv-rules
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    Well spotted Keith.
    The rest of the comments on the page are also quite enlightening.
    Rob.

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    One of the other comments suggested drawing C chits. That is a good idea.

    The most common damage I recall from historical battles where friendly ships collide is that one ship loose their bowsprit. That makes sailing harder and should be sail damage. It's almost could be said that any ship colliding with their bow takes one sail special damage. Loosing masts also comes to mind, but I cant remember specific instances there.

  29. #29
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    I think that any collision where a ship hits another square on with its bow, rather than just rubbing alongside should come in for special damage, but that C chit idea is very appealing.
    Rob.

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    You always risk entanglement and it's due to rigging getting caught. C does damage to the rigging. It supports historical outcome and it's not that bad that it'll sink you, even though it theoretically can give you that last broken mast. That settles it for me.

    I like this type of threads that make you re-evaluate how you play and what house rules you use.

  31. #31
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    I think that I will also adopt the C chit idea Jonas. It is easy and does not add any complications to the game. The chits are ready to hand.
    Rob.

  32. #32
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    C sounds a winner, get an 'A' for effort guys!

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    Gents, are you looking to use the "select one C damage if under full sail, then ship starts at backing sail" suggestion?

    This means that damage is far less than intended.
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    I been reading with interest the thread.
    I said a while back I find it strange that only friendly collisions cause damage, although I understand and like the rule as it makes you plan not to collide and I think that is important.
    After reading the BGG points, I think in future I would prefer to keep damage for friendly collisions using standard rules but ignoring special damage , except leaks and rudder damage. Collisions with enemy ships take C damage.
    The thing we dont want to encourage is giving a benefit to ramming ships

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    Yes I think taking C damage is a good solution to this. From the sound of it, the game designers think it's a good idea too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hjl View Post
    Yes I think taking C damage is a good solution to this. From the sound of it, the game designers think it's a good idea too!
    Hugh, Andrea suggested B deck with no special damage. The C deck was a player suggestion in the thread and earlier, if I recall correctly. I think I will just use Andrea's no special damage clarification at this point.
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    C damage for both situations works for me, but refining it to two Cs if head on, or no damage if backing sails in use by both ships in an oblique situation. Entanglement stays in all cases. Special damage limited to steering and sprung planks.
    Rob.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TWR View Post
    Hugh, Andrea suggested B deck with no special damage. The C deck was a player suggestion in the thread and earlier, if I recall correctly. I think I will just use Andrea's no special damage clarification at this point.
    Yes, but the player suggestion (although not just one as he suggested but burden as per the old way) would give results that would mimic historical outcomes of collisions while Andrea's is purely gamey and prevents historical outcomes. This version is even ok game-wise and therefore so much better than Andrea's in my mind.

    Everyone is naturally entitled to do in any way they like best. Playing with rules as close to intended as possible has some merit in itself.

  39. #39
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    How about making the ship that caused the collision take an extra B damage as well as the C, just to off put the intentional ram, or even 2 B no special damage just a game mechanic to stop rams.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capn Duff View Post
    How about making the ship that caused the collision take an extra B damage as well as the C, just to off put the intentional ram, or even 2 B no special damage just a game mechanic to stop rams.
    Wont that disadvantage those who wish to initiate boarding actions Chris?
    Rob.

  41. #41
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    Sorry , correct Rob, I was still think friendly ships that cause the collision, against enemy ships just the C

  42. #42
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    I think we may be dancing around the real (to me) problem, that the game is unable to differentiate between different types of collisions, and (as has been mooted before) ignores the fact that real captains would ram less often than players, or would steer to mitigate the effects of potential rams.
    We all know ramming situations occurred in real life, but why all the emphasis on friendly collisions? - I think the game should focus on gunfire and possibly boarding actions, and I think trying to get a good broadside is quite sufficient motivation for players to try to get side on to opponents without ramming, or having friendly ships in the way.

    Just my tuppence worth tho'

  43. #43
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    True Richard, as I have said precviously, I think Captains would not just collide with friendly ships.
    But we are not all sailors we need a mechanic to make sure , or at least try, we dont run into our own team.
    I like the mechanic of damage to friendly ships as it will make even the landiest of lubbers ( is that a real word ) think twice.
    For me we need either a not at all unless boarding or a penalty for running into friends. I like the idea of rigging damage for enemy collisions.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bligh View Post
    C damage for both situations works for me, but refining it to two Cs if head on, or no damage if backing sails in use by both ships in an oblique situation. Entanglement stays in all cases. Special damage limited to steering, rigging, and sprung planks.
    Rob.
    I have added rigging to my idea Chris.
    Rob.

  45. #45
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    I have a question.

    Is it only the ship who got overlapd there takes damage. Or do the overlapping ship take damage too?

    Lets say that HMS Defence overlapping HMS Royal George. Is it then only HMS Royal George there takes damage, or do HMS Defence also take damage.
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  46. #46
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    All ships in the collision takes damage.

  47. #47
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    The damage is rated on the burden of the ships.
    Rob.

  48. #48
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    Ok thanks mates.
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