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Thread: 14th July

  1. #1

    Default 14th July

    The community of French captains is not that big here, but those few should raise their glas today with me.

    Vive la France!
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  2. #2
    Admiral of the White
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    Happy Bastille Day!!!
    "It's not the towering sails, but the unseen wind that moves a ship."
    –English Proverb

  3. #3
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    Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite, right, Sven:?:)
    OK, every opportunity to empty a glass of rum is a good one!
    Last edited by Nightbomber; 07-14-2015 at 09:49.

  4. #4
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    I feel that as I have now met Mr Washington, the Marquis de Lafayette, and trod the deck of Hermione, I could drink a toast to the French on this occasion.
    Bligh.

  5. #5
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    And the French government would not stabilize until Charles de Gaulle in *1958*....

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    Happy Bastille Day !!!! Cheers!!!

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    And the French government would not stabilize until Charles de Gaulle in *1958*....
    yeay yeah, party pooper.

    Cant say the same for the government's of Greece, Italy, the non-functioning of the US Presednetial system.....but we aren't commenting on politics here, so I haven't said anything.

    Vive L Republique, vive L'Emperuer, Vive La France...choose your poison!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    And the French government would not stabilize until Charles de Gaulle in *1958*....
    Hey hang on Chris, I'm not offering to buy them that much booze.
    Rob.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    And the French government would not stabilize until Charles de Gaulle in *1958*....
    The meddling of various Monarchs not to mention several little "excursions" into France by the Germans certainly didn't help with "stabilization".

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeRuyter View Post
    The meddling of various Monarchs not to mention several little "excursions" into France by the Germans certainly didn't help with "stabilization".
    The German incursions were a result of the instability of the French gov't -- when the gov't's being reorg'ed every 10 years or so, it's difficult to get the citizenry (to include the troops) to care; they don't want Justice, they just want Quiet.

  11. #11
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    A Belated "Happy Bastille Day" to all French members.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    The German incursions were a result of the instability of the French gov't...
    I always like those short world history summaries.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Comte de Brueys View Post
    I always like those short world history summaries.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    The German incursions were a result of the instability of the French gov't -- when the gov't's being reorg'ed every 10 years or so, it's difficult to get the citizenry (to include the troops) to care; they don't want Justice, they just want Quiet.
    Sure - I can picture Hitler saying to his general staff; Hey lets invade France because, you know, their government is just not stable and hasn't been since that darn revolution, it would be a piece o cake!


    I don't know 10 years sounds pretty stable. Now a government reorg every 4-8 years that'd be crazy, but I wonder where they do that?

  15. #15
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    As of late, I have been diving into Napoleonic table-top games and the Battle of France for WoG. I am ordering the following game as well (http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3...-france-1940):

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    So I will raise a glass to all my French friends, their country, and my fellow shipmates who appreciate France -
    “You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeRuyter View Post
    I don't know 10 years sounds pretty stable. Now a government reorg every 4-8 years that'd be crazy, but I wonder where they do that?
    You'd think that; but stability takes at least twice that long for everything to settle in -- for a local example: Look how long the Articles of Confederation lasted before needing a reboot. In France's case, the typical gov't of the period didn't outlast the guys who created it.

    And then there's the sociological aspect -- how many of us here have lived under more than one type of gov't in our lifetimes? I know I haven't. When one never knows who's going to be in charge next, or what form the "being in charge" will take.... (You mentioned Dear Old Uncle Adi; he took advantage of German gov't instability to do what he did. And his contempt for the French gov't's instability did lead him across the border.)

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by csadn View Post
    You'd think that; but stability takes at least twice that long for everything to settle in -- for a local example: Look how long the Articles of Confederation lasted before needing a reboot. In France's case, the typical gov't of the period didn't outlast the guys who created it.

    And then there's the sociological aspect -- how many of us here have lived under more than one type of gov't in our lifetimes? I know I haven't. When one never knows who's going to be in charge next, or what form the "being in charge" will take.... (You mentioned Dear Old Uncle Adi; he took advantage of German gov't instability to do what he did. And his contempt for the French gov't's instability did lead him across the border.)
    I think it had more to do with WW1, Versailles, Alsace-Lorraine, dithering by the Allies, opportunity, necessity (France being the nearest antagonist to German and having greater armoured forces, even if they didnt know how to use them) etc etc. Contempt existed but without the rest it would have merely been impotent disdain.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7eat51 View Post
    ...I am ordering the following game as well.

    ...

    So I will raise a glass to all my French friends, their country, and my fellow shipmates who appreciate France -
    That's right my friend.

    Today we command their ships.

    Tommorrow we cross their borders with tanks.




  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berthier View Post
    I think it had more to do with WW1, Versailles, Alsace-Lorraine, dithering by the Allies, opportunity, necessity (France being the nearest antagonist to German and having greater armoured forces, even if they didnt know how to use them) etc etc. Contempt existed but without the rest it would have merely been impotent disdain.
    All true; but a strong French gov't -- one which could tel Adi to "f*** off" and make it convincing -- would have diverted him.

    Instead, France got: The battles between the absolute-monarchists and liberals in the Second Restoration; the "July Monarchy" and the battles with the republicans which led to the Second Republic in 1848; which led to Louis-Phillipe declaring himself "President For Life" in 1852, and his thundering incompetence leading to the loss in the Franco-Prussian War in 1871; which led to the "Paris Commune" and the infighting of the Third Republic (which didn't form a lasting gov't until 1879, and even then was constantly facing coup threats; and the less said of The Dreyfus Affair, the better -- the "belle epoque" was only named in comparison to WW1). France never quite managed to get its act together until after WW2 (and even then, some people wonder about it).

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comte de Brueys View Post
    That's right my friend.

    Today we command their ships.

    Tommorrow we cross their borders with tanks.



    This one is taunting me. I hear it whispering, "Buy me. Buy me."

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    “You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato

  21. #21
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    Now if only the french had a naval victory that they could celebrate...

  22. #22
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    Well they did get a winning draw at the Battle of the Chesapeake Dave.
    Rob.

  23. #23

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    How about the Battle of Grand Port in 1810? The only naval battle on the Arc de Triomphe and they did capture the entire attacking British frigate squadron. I know they lost the campaign and Isle de France in the end, but still a big set back for the Brits.

    Suffern v Hughes in the Indian Ocean? I know indecisive battles but arguably the French come out ahead in the campaign. Some of my favorite WS&IM scenarios there!

  24. #24
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    Yes two more good examples there right enough Eric.
    Rob.

  25. #25
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    Any number of small-ship actions -- the Caxton Pictorial Histories are full of them. (proves beyond question the British were burglarizing their small units to ensure the SoLs were crewed properly.)

  26. #26

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    Another belated "Happy Bastille Day"

    Besides the fact that we both speak English (to a degree) It's really hard to understand why we are such good friends with a country who wanted to keep us under foot, and belittle a country who helped us win our independence. Maybe its their smugness

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner View Post
    ..., and belittle a country who helped us win our independence. ...
    Blame Canada - same language.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner View Post
    Another belated "Happy Bastille Day"

    Besides the fact that we both speak English (to a degree) It's really hard to understand why we are such good friends with a country who wanted to keep us under foot, and belittle a country who helped us win our independence.
    Maybe its because we spent the best part of the 1800s post 1815 helping you guys along and looking after your maritime trade for you (apart from working damned hard to cut off your supply of new slaves from Africa of course)

    Maybe its their smugness
    Maybe its not _them_ at all?

  29. #29

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    [QUOTE=David Manley;51418] (working damned hard to cut off your supply of new slaves from Africa of course) /QUOTE]

    Thank you for that

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Comte de Brueys View Post
    Blame Canada - same language.
    I blame p___ poor planning on our part. We could have had at least 75 stars on our flag.

  31. #31

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    ...or one maple leaf.

  32. #32

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    Or 25. We do the same with states that England tried to do with countries. Don't let any one get too powerful.

  33. #33
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    French naval victories.

    Battle of the Chesapeake 1781 ?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Chesapeake

    Battle of Fuzhou 1884
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fuzhou

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naharaht View Post
    French naval victories.

    Battle of the Chesapeake 1781 ?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Chesapeake
    Maybe not a victory, but it did the trick.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner View Post
    Maybe not a victory, but it did the trick.
    Do I have a sense of deja vu here Ed or is it just an echo in French?
    Rob.

  36. #36
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    There's also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Battle_of_Algeciras

    That was a French victory.

  37. #37
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    A very elucidating account of events Jonas.
    British History lessons tend to gloss over the failures and only give detailed accounts of the victories.
    Well they did 50 odd years ago when I was at school.
    Rob.

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    Yes. The French see the first and second battles of Algeciras as two different battles where they won the first and the Spanish lost the second. The British see it as a single battle over a few days. That way the British can disregard the first and see it as a win.

    It's all about perspective...

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexaS View Post
    Yes. The French see the first and second battles of Algeciras as two different battles where they won the first and the Spanish lost the second.
    Its always handy having allies for just this purpose

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