The Future of Tabletop Simulators

[Nightmoss]

There's an interesting article up on Rock, Paper, Shotgun concerning Tabletop Simulator a boardgame software program on Steam that's enjoying considerable success.

http://berserk-games.com/tabletop-simulator/

The modding community has embraced the program big time, but I suspect the question of copyright infringement is the big gorilla about to enter the room? I've not gone any further on Steam to see if anyone's modding Ares products yet, but if they're doing Star Wars X-Wing, one might expect to see SoG and WoG at some point?

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015...ods-copyright/

[7eat51]

Interesting article, Jim. I might use this in my business ethics course this fall.

On a different note, I would be surprised if physical tabletop games crash and burn due to virtual adaptations. There's something human about the physical interface and immediate social community that virtual cannot replace. It's not unlike our experience at Origins; as wonderful as kibitzing with each other here and on the 'Drome is, and it is wonderful, the days spent face-to-face cannot be replicated.

[fredmiracle]

I would be surprised if physical tabletop games crash and burn due to virtual adaptations.

I'll go one step further and suggest that online versions would HELP drive tabletop sales. The online community would be more engaged and active if there was an SGN online option, and IMO that would get people excited about buying more ships. The effect on overall sales might be small potatoes, but I'm convinced it would be a positive...

[Nightmoss]

Interesting article, Jim. I might use this in my business ethics course this fall.

On a different note, I would be surprised if physical tabletop games crash and burn due to virtual adaptations. There's something human about the physical interface and immediate social community that virtual cannot replace. It's not unlike our experience at Origins; as wonderful as kibitzing with each other here and on the 'Drome is, and it is wonderful, the days spent face-to-face cannot be replicated.

I'll go one step further and suggest that online versions would HELP drive tabletop sales. The online community would be more engaged and active if there was an SGN online option, and IMO that would get people excited about buying more ships. The effect on overall sales might be small potatoes, but I'm convinced it would be a positive...

I agree with you both. You can't beat face to face gaming.

Digital apps could potentially increase sales. . .try it online or on a tablet and then bring family and friends along too. On a real table with real minis.

[Herkybird]

If you are interested, I had an E-Mail from the chap who did the APP for the X-Wing (Jon Bagshaw) who asked if he could use my X-Wing solo rules as a base for it.
I agreed of course, and since then he has had over 1000 active downloads of it (May 18th 2015).

That was about 2 months after he first put it up online. Considering the number of people who do X-Wing, this is not a great number, but is at least a sizeable minority!

I think an app for Sails would probably be a more difficult program to create, at least based on my experience developing Powder Monkey!-- but there are some very talented people out there, aren't there!

[Nightmoss]

Tabletop Simulator is on sale right now on Steam so I couldn't pass it up for just over $13.00. I was amazed to see there are over 3,500 'games' that are available for access via the simulator. I saw several Star Wars X-Wings versions, probably including the one Richard mentions above. I didn't get through the entire list, but I did see that War of the Rings (2nd Edition) from Ares Games is listed there?

I fully expect many of these 'mods' are going to get 'cease and desist' orders in the near future. Quite a few titles are using existing game box art and photos to advertise content.

[Kentop]

It's not copyright infringement until you actually try to make money off a given simulation. From what I see, all the games are free using tabletop simulator. The Steam system is a pay system for games, but table top simulator is built for users to put up their own versions of beloved games. There's a game called "Wings over the Trenches" which is actually Wings of Glory WWI. Looks great, too. Warhammer 40k has a bunch of different games. There's a napoleonic gaming system based on Commands and Colors. Axis and Allies is well represented. Anybody remember SPI games back in the 70s? Napoleon at Waterloo is available! For thirteen bucks, I may never leave my computer screen again. I'll turn into one of those dad bod geek boys who do nothing but play on the computer all day. Oops, too late. Already there.

There's a Subbuteo game available! Help! I'm slipping away fast.....

[Nightmoss]

It's not copyright infringement until you actually try to make money off a given simulation. From what I see, all the games are free using tabletop simulator. The Steam system is a pay system for games, but table top simulator is built for users to put up their own versions of beloved games. There's a game called "Wings over the Trenches" which is actually Wings of Glory WWI. Looks great, too. Warhammer 40k has a bunch of different games. There's a napoleonic gaming system based on Commands and Colors. Axis and Allies is well represented. Anybody remember SPI games back in the 70s? Napoleon at Waterloo is available! For thirteen bucks, I may never leave my computer screen again. I'll turn into one of those dad bod geek boys who do nothing but play on the computer all day. Oops, too late. Already there.

There's a Subbuteo game available! Help! I'm slipping away fast.....

Wow. You got further into the list than I did. So there's a Wings of Glory version up?! I'll have to check that out.

I'm not going to get into a discussion of fair use and copyright. I left most of that behind when I retired five years ago.

[Kentop]

It's totally legitimate. You can buy licensed games outright, or you can buy the simulator and go to the workshop. In the workshop are guys and gals just like the rest of us, putting up games to try. I just tried out Axis and Allies Guadalcanal and it is fantastic. It lets you download the complete rulebook on how to play and then lets you play it on a table as if you were really there. You can move pieces, shuffle the cards, place stuff on maps, throw stuff, and even overturn the table. WARNING, it is computer chip and video chip hungry. But I can deal with that on my ancient iMac power PC. It runs fine under Mac OS X Yosemite. My wife is NOT going to like this!

[Kentop]

Wings of glory using tabletop simulator:

[Kentop]

Want more?

[7eat51]

And there goes my dissertation, Kenneth. I really don't need to see this right now.

That's a rather beautiful setup.

Interesting you mention A&A Guadalcanal. I have been wanting to try that for awhile.

[Kentop]

I think there's great potential here. Being able to try before you buy lets you be a smarter shopper. If I really like a game, I will buy the actual version. If a game is out of print (I'm looking at you, Panzerblitz) then this might just be the only way you can play it.

[Nightmoss]

I think there's great potential here. Being able to try before you buy lets you be a smarter shopper. If I really like a game, I will buy the actual version. If a game is out of print (I'm looking at you, Panzerblitz) then this might just be the only way you can play it.

If you're looking for out of print games and are willing to spend some money I suggest you check these folks out? I've traded and sold a lot of games to them lately. They're very nice to work with and only 30 some miles from my home.

http://www.nobleknight.com/ProductDe...D_E_2148154127

[Kentop]

Wow, thanks for the heads up. I will definitely be sending them some money right away.

[David Manley]

It's not copyright infringement until you actually try to make money off a given simulation. .......

Is that correct? I would have thought IP infringement would have kicked in as soon as the "for personal use only" aspect was exceeded. Distributing game material for free would seem to be potentially impacting on sales of a game, surely?

[Kentop]

Guess what? Avalon hill games are now public domain. My favorite game was "Afrika Korps". I recently contacted WOTC and Hasbro, and all the Avalon Hill board games published before 1995 are public domain. That is why I made Africa Corps in Table Top Simulator . Here is what it looks like:

[Nightmoss]

Nice. This was one of the very few wargames I could talk my high school buddies into playing. They didn't dislike wargames, they hated them.

I still have my copy down in the vault.

[Kentop]

Yes, that is where Bengazi is. Even Rush Limbaugh, self appointed expert, couldn't point it out on a map. It had to be captured by the German army so that the allies could not land troops behind them in their quest for El Alamein.

[7eat51]

Interesting about the Public Domain, and nice work on the simulator.

Do you use a specific program?

[Kentop]

I use images I found on BoardGameGeek and used Photoshop to create the individual counter images as jpgs and post them to imgur. Then I import them into table top simulator. The only object I need for this simulation is a square counter. I'm thinking of doing a Sails of Glory ship in Blender, a free 3d modeling program. The great thing about table top simulator is that you can import anyones models into your game, and there are thousands of models available. Even the simulator itself has a nice selection of models to use. But I don't want to post anything to the online site unless I have expressed permission from the game designers or copyright owners. So, I've created Afrika Korps only for my own amusement. I will probably post this game for download after I finish it, though.

[7eat51]

Very cool, Kenneth. I have never played an online version of a tabletop wargame. I think this would be an interesting experience. Do these games allow a person to play both sides, or is it playing against an AI?

[Popsical]

I use images I found on BoardGameGeek and used Photoshop to create the individual counter images as jpgs and post them to imgur. Then I import them into table top simulator. The only object I need for this simulation is a square counter. I'm thinking of doing a Sails of Glory ship in Blender, a free 3d modeling program. The great thing about table top simulator is that you can import anyones models into your game, and there are thousands of models available. Even the simulator itself has a nice selection of models to use. But I don't want to post anything to the online site unless I have expressed permission from the game designers or copyright owners. So, I've created Afrika Korps only for my own amusement. I will probably post this game for download after I finish it, though.

Great stuff Kenneth! My favourite was Russian Front, i still have my copy somewhere in storage. I must get it out again.
As an aside ive just found my copies of GWs Block mania and Mega mania! Im gonna bludgeon my gaming colleagues into play in pain of death.

[csadn]

Meanwhile, this is going to shoot _Car Wars 6th Edition_ square through the head:

http://www.popsci.com/anki-overdrive...cars-high-gear ....