Oh that is interesting! Ares update

[Berthier]

Latest update from Ares



Sails of Glory Backers!
To the best of our knowledge, the fulfillment of the Kickstarter is now over.
We are still chasing a few individual addresses from some of you we've not heard from for a long while, to send the replacement rulers and/or the Victory and Constitution.
So, if for any reason you still did not get some of your rewards, please send us a message and we will look into your individual case.
While the Sails of Glory Kickstarter is completed, we plan for Sails of Glory to long live and prosper, thanks to your support.
We are at work on the next wave of ships, that we hope should be on the market beforeth e end of the year. With this release, we will add to the English fleet 50-gun Portland class ships, 64-gun Artesien class ships for the French, as well as new ships-of-the-line for the Spanish fleet - the fundamental Meregildos (Santa Ana, Real Carlos, Principe de Asturias...) and Third-Rate ships such as the San Juan Nepomuceno and Bahama.
We are also at work on a set of rules allowing you to expand your game to play with a larger number of ships, and other add-ons, to enhance your gameplay experience.
Before good-byes, a short reminder that at Enfilade! 2015, next week-end, our friends of NHMGS will try to play the largest Sails of Glory game ever, with 71 ships. Will they succeed in breaking the record of 50 players and ships from last year's GenCon? Will you be one of those brave captains!

[TroubleAtTMill]

That's interesting indeed, and distinctly more promising than the previous thread on the future :D

[Walram]

To the last paragraph, thanks for the reminder about our "Glorious First of June" battle this coming Sunday. Still looking for a few of "those brave captains!"

And as I said before - "It's going to be big; it's going to be fun!" Hope to see some of you there.

[fredmiracle]

We are at work on the next wave of ships, that we hope should be on the market before the end of the year.

I noted that with great interest. I've been highly petulant that wave 3 was slated for "some time in 2016." So I'm happy to see this announcement, but wondering what's up. Was there a miscommunication before? Or is there a miscommunication now? Or did they make a strategy change? And if so, what is driving it...?

I'd like to think awesome sales figures prompted reassessment, but that's probably wishful thinking on my part.

Anyway it's an encouraging development

[Nightmoss]

Very encouraging to see this new update, but as others have noted Wave 3 was communicated to us as occurring sometime on 2016, not by the end of the year. Hopefully the sales figures for Constitution and Victory (and the remainder of their SGN product line) has been robust enough to move Wave 3 production up significantly?

Perhaps we may yet see a special edition of Santisima Trinidad in 2016?

[Popsical]

Very exciting news indeed!
I am looking forward to the squadron rules to see if they streamline multi ship play for us that play 1 on 1.
Still, well done Ares, keep up the good work!

[Herkybird]

I imagine it may be possible to adapt the squadron rules to solo play, if we are lucky. I, for one, will certainly try!

[fredmiracle]

I am looking forward to the squadron rules to see if they streamline multi ship play for us that play 1 on 1.
Still, well done Ares, keep up the good work!

Yes I do wonder what they have in mind there. Some movement rule so that trailing ships can follow the squadron leader seems like a no-brainer. Presumably using the least maneuverable deck in the line.

One big obstacle to fleet play is simply the space and time needed to set out and maintain all those ship mats. I wonder what they will do about that...

[Tiberius]

Exciting! Now if they really want to make money they just need pirates.

[Diamondback]

I noted that with great interest. I've been highly petulant that wave 3 was slated for "some time in 2016." So I'm happy to see this announcement, but wondering what's up. Was there a miscommunication before? Or is there a miscommunication now? Or did they make a strategy change? And if so, what is driving it...?

Anyway it's an encouraging development

LOL, I'll see your "Petulant," and raise with "Full-Metal Bitchy Little Girl." :P

It could be that their goal is Late '15, but they're penciling Early 2016 to err on the side of caution--I've advised them to move to an estimation process of "whatever you think you're ready to announce to us for a date, add three months to that and then announce the result." They didn't fully embrace it on the Giants Kickstarter, but they are using a slightly less 'aggressively conservative' baseline, so we'll see from that how it works.

[csadn]

LOL, I'll see your "Petulant," and raise with "Full-Metal Bitchy Little Girl." :P

I thought that message bore some DB-sized bootprints on its aft section....

[Diamondback]

Yeah, there are thousands of entries on the list of things I'm nowhere near good at... "Diplomacy" and "Subtlety" are among them. :D

[fredmiracle]

It could be that their goal is Late '15, but they're penciling Early 2016 to err on the side of caution--I've advised them to move to an estimation process of "whatever you think you're ready to announce to us for a date, add three months to that and then announce the result." They didn't fully embrace it on the Giants Kickstarter, but they are using a slightly less 'aggressively conservative' baseline, so we'll see from that how it works.

That's all fine. Everyone likes an accurate estimate of course. But there is certainly something to be said for being aggressive and missing the target, since I've seen many organizations plagued by delays that reorient toward "realistic" estimates, and then relax their efforts accordingly and miss the revised deadlines by as much as ever. The best organization can be pretty decent at both 100% effort and near-realism, but it's hard to do.

Whether wave 3 is Q4 of 2015 or Q1 of 2016 is not such a big thing to me. What really set me off was "some time in 2016." To me, that smelled of "we don't know what we are doing," or "we are hedging our bets because we aren't really sure if we are going to proceed with it," or something of that ilk. A serious effort to deliver within the next 7-10 months strikes me quite positively.

[Diamondback]

Another round of paint-scheme concepts just went out for our review today--can't talk about it much, but the fact that they're still sending things out and asking David, Jose Manuel and myself for feedback on them says the ball is still rolling however slow it may be. (I'd rather they take it slow and deliberate, rather than rush, go off half-cocked and deliver a botch like the markings on A Bit O' Lace came out.)

[Nightmoss]

Exciting! Now if they really want to make money they just need pirates.

Indeed, someone on the Kickstarter comments page is pleading for pirates.

. . .are you ever going to create Pirate ships? We really need pirate ships because I think we have enough regular ships!!!! Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! even just two or three pirate ships would be nice.

[Mark Kaiser]

Exciting! Now if they really want to make money they just need pirates.

I totally agree, even for the most stringent of historians, a trip back in the games time period wouldn't hurt sales or promotional endorsements. Along with decks of Famous Captains and Crew of the periods, with a little history and associated abilities. More 'Meat On The Bone' if you will. Random event decks would prove invaluable for solo play and edge-of-your-set for multi-play. Effectively opening the doors for a bigger fan base and generating more revenue.

[Gunner]

Another round of paint-scheme concepts just went out for our review today--can't talk about it much, but the fact that they're still sending things out and asking David, Jose Manuel and myself for feedback on them says the ball is still rolling however slow it may be. (I'd rather they take it slow and deliberate, rather than rush, go off half-cocked and deliver a botch like the markings on A Bit O' Lace came out.)

I like the Nelson checker but, I hope they don't overdo it. Plenty of color schemes to choose from, starting with a plain wood color (for the merchantmen if nothing else) and I wouldn't mind seeing some black and white checkered 3rd and 1st rates. If they ever get around to Russians, Some checkered dark green & white would be the icing on my cake.

[John Paul]

Yeah, there are thousands of entries on the list of things I'm nowhere near good at... "Diplomacy" and "Subtlety" are among them. :D

DB,

I almost find that hard to believe!!

I did say: Almost!!!!

[John Paul]

Some of the reason for their advance Schedule Planning might have been that the tooling, casting, and painting involved with Wave 3 may have dragged into the Chinese New Year where everything comes to a screeching halt for 3 - 4 weeks while they celebrate, or whatever it is they do! Now that the time is drawing near they must have a better idea of when enough product will be produced to update the end dates more firmly!!

[7eat51]

It looks like I will finally wade into Spanish waters.

[John Paul]

It looks like I will finally wade into Spanish waters.

Be on your guard they can be treacherous waters at times!!

[csadn]

Yeah, there are thousands of entries on the list of things I'm nowhere near good at... "Diplomacy" and "Subtlety" are among them. :D

Well, I *did* say "We must all trust the good Lord to save us from our Italian friends" -- but this is the textbook definition of "the Lord works in mysterious ways".... ;)

[7eat51]

Well, I *did* say "We must all trust the good Lord to save us from our Italian friends"

You do realize my last name ends in a vowel? My avatar on the 'Drome and BGG is the flag of our hometown in Italy - Ripacandida.

[NimitsTexan]

We are also at work on a set of rules allowing you to expand your game to play with a larger number of ships, and other add-ons, to enhance your gameplay experience.

Very, very happy to hear this. I'm sure a full scale Trafalgar or Glorious First of June will still be a pain at anything other than a gaming convention, but here is hoping some of the smaller fleet engagements (Nile?) or squadron-sized battles will become more comfortable for 1v1 or a small group.

[Gunner]

Not to mention, it should increase their sales.

[Popsical]

To be honest, simply providing rules and data sheets for pirate ships and captain cards for famous villians would be fine.
Most gamers have at least rudimentary painting skills, i bought embuscade and undercoated it black then drybrushed some grey over the sails, picked out the cannons in brass and i had a great little Black pearl for my daughter.

[Comte de Brueys]

Thank you for the update, Daniel.

[csadn]

You do realize my last name ends in a vowel?

"Eh -- nobody's perfect." [Julius Levinson, _Independence Day_] :)

(Besides: I know many people whose names end in vowels -- granted, most of them are of Japanese extract....)

[7eat51]

i bought embuscade and undercoated it black then drybrushed some grey over the sails, picked out the cannons in brass and i had a great little Black pearl for my daughter.

Very cool.

I think next year I will incorporate pirates into an Origins game. Sue, I believe, would enjoy painting some pirate ships. I think it could be fun interesting introducing folks to how SoG can be adapted to non-historical games.

[Diamondback]

Eric, this one's for you :D : *Gibbs-slaps French*

[7eat51]

Thank you, DB.

[Diamondback]

Here's a little dangle... not at liberty to share what, but first concepts for Wave 4 have been broached by email. Some people will be very pleased, some others... not so much. But some *very* demanded items have been mentioned... :)

[Mike Ditka voice] And that's all I can say about that until our Italian friends approve a little more to be let out. No questions yet--whaddya think this is, a frickin' Press Conference? *mike drop*

[Gunner]

I can only hope that countries besides US, UK, French & Spanish will be on the list, even though I'd like more of the first four and a merchantman.

[NimitsTexan]

Dutch and Danes?

Besides that, I am sort of at a loss as to what other nation's ships (during the Napoleonic era) Ares could model? I know Russia had a fleet of sorts, but my impression was that it was most notable for its lack of activity (admittedly not all the fault of the Russians) during this era.

[Gunner]

I know Russia had a fleet of sorts, but my impression was that it was most notable for its lack of activity (admittedly not all the fault of the Russians) during this era.

Lack of activity?? I suggest a little reading of Russian battles in the Age of Sail, against the Swedish, Danish, Turkish, Egyptian fleets would be in order. You might start with Tredrea and Sozaev's Russian Warships in the Age of Sail or Sapherson and Lenton's Navy lists from the age of sail Volume Six, The Russian Navy comes of age for a starter.

[Nightmoss]

I'm going to guess merchants and ships that would fill out the Battle of Trafalgar for both sides. I'd like to think pirates as they've been in high demand, but they probably don't fit in with the British/French Napoleonic arc?

Yes, I know this isn't a guessing contest, but you knew we'd start one.

[fredmiracle]

I'll play the guessing game...

They already said pirates and merchant ships, so I'm sure that's not changing.

Based on DB almost content-less teaser, I'm guessing some combination of:

1) fantasy pirates
2) a big shift out of time period to the golden age of piracy, and/or
3) some major stretches as to what models are used to represent what ships

ok, so here's my guess:
1) An East-Indiaman, done up as British, Dutch and Bonhomme Richard
2) Some kind of lateen frigate to represent Algerian pirates, Turkey and some other random pirate
3) A more conventional type pirate frigate, more powerful than any real pirate ship, with paint jobs ascribed to Blackbeard, Captain Kidd and Black Bart
4) Because Constitution is selling well (I hope), as an opponent for the Barbary pirates, and because someone requested Constellation on BGG the other day, a 36-gun US frigate painted as Congress, Philadelphia and Constellation

:D

[7eat51]

At one time, several of us on the Anchorage provided a body of research to Ares regarding merchants. Maybe their time has finally come.

[TexaS]

I'd hope the fourth wave would be two different merchants, a bigger East Indiaman and a smaller merchant. Then I'll guess there'll be two pirates, one bigger and one smaller with an older look to them, higher sterns. Sadly they will not make the more historical pirate versions of for example a merchant brig with added swivel guns and ridiculous amounts of crew or the lateen frigate that could be Algerian or maybe even El Gamo.

The crew will be a problem without new rules for boarding as burden will be too blunt an instrument unless they only do patchwork.

[David Manley]

Here's a little dangle... not at liberty to share what, but first concepts for Wave 4 have been broached by email. Some people will be very pleased, some others... not so much. But some *very* demanded items have been mentioned... :)

Now now, thats a bit mean letting on that we know something

[TroubleAtTMill]

Here's a little dangle... not at liberty to share what, but first concepts for Wave 4 have been broached by email. Some people will be very pleased, some others... not so much. But some *very* demanded items have been mentioned... :)

[Mike Ditka voice] And that's all I can say about that until our Italian friends approve a little more to be let out. No questions yet--whaddya think this is, a frickin' Press Conference? *mike drop*

Tease :D

Do we have a rough ETA for Wave 4 (yes, you can all laugh at the naive Brit now :D)

[David Manley]

Tease :D

Do we have a rough ETA for Wave 4 .......

yes......

[TroubleAtTMill]

yes......

REFEREE!!!!

[fredmiracle]

yes......

So far in the future that it don't matter right now folks!

[7eat51]

For those of you who have Ares' ear, please encourage them to be more forthcoming with news. Given the prior problems with completing the KS fulfillment, the broken masts, etc., some publicity will do the line good.

How open is Ares to receiving and disseminating fan-developed materials? I know Ares is a small company, but fans might be able to increase the company's communications and non-ship offerings, e.g. scenarios, etc. - basically, fans could serve as unpaid freelance writers.

[fredmiracle]

I'd hope the fourth wave would be two different merchants, a bigger East Indiaman and a smaller merchant. Then I'll guess there'll be two pirates, one bigger and one smaller with an older look to them, higher sterns. Sadly they will not make the more historical pirate versions of for example a merchant brig with added swivel guns and ridiculous amounts of crew or the lateen frigate that could be Algerian or maybe even El Gamo.

Honestly I have a bit of dread about what Ares will come up with. I like the game a lot, but their decision-making often causes me to scratch my head.

I'm all for merchants, and I suspect they will be in demand, but I think the reality should also be faced that they have a pretty limited role in the game. It's not like merchants actually participated in exciting battles. If there was an escort, then the attacker and the escort would fight while the convoy scattered. If the escort was defeated or absent, then the warships snapped up the merchants.

Yes you *could* have some exciting chases or tactical face-offs involving trying to nip a merchantman off a convoy before the escort could counter. But those maneuver things are simply not in SGN's wheelhouse. So basically merchantmen will only see the table as bit-players in somewhat contrived scenarios. That's a valid use, but limited in its appeal. For that reason I'm hoping Ares doesn't load two into the same wave.

On the flipside, I think pirates will be tricky to navigate. If they make them historical, their appeal strikes me as pretty limited (suitable only for low-end sloop and small frigate duels, which I find a bit of a snore). If they make them fantasy (which I think they should) then I hate to see them waste new models for them, since I think the demand could just as well be met by repainting existing models. Again, if they do two pirates (which I even predicted) in a single wave, they'd better be really smart about it.

Meanwhile, if they were to do 2 pirates and 2 merchants, then they would miss the opportunity to add some ships that appeal to the SGN core base, whether it's a French 80-gun or a British 2nd rate, or a Dutch SOL and frigate, or USS Constellation, or whatever...

Well, we'll see. Of course I'm very likely to buy whatever they make, but given the low rate of new models, there seems to be a lot of pressure on Ares to make smart choices each time.

[Nightmoss]

Now now, thats a bit mean letting on that we know something

I'm just pleased to hear that Wave 4 is being discussed. Not too long ago I was fairly convinced that Ares was backing off on their support of SoG.

[fredmiracle]

I'm just pleased to hear that Wave 4 is being discussed. Not too long ago I was fairly convinced that Ares was backing off on their support of SoG.

agree with that--forward momentum is good!

[csadn]

The Russians had their "big name" battles -- but since none of them took place outside the confines of the Baltic or very-eastern Mediterranean, they didn't get much notice by the outside world. This is what happens when all one's exits are controlled by Other People....

And fredmiracle nails down *why* I complain quite so much about how Ares handles matters -- best I can tell, if it weren't for DB and a couple others, the game would have foundered a while back in a morass of "what the hell is *this* Ship" [ :) ] minis-releases.

[Gunner]

The Russians had their "big name" battles -- but since none of them took place outside the confines of the Baltic or very-eastern Mediterranean, they didn't get much notice by the outside world. This is what happens when all one's exits are controlled by Other People....

And fredmiracle nails down *why* I complain quite so much about how Ares handles matters -- best I can tell, if it weren't for DB and a couple others, the game would have foundered a while back in a morass of "what the hell is *this* Ship" [ :) ] minis-releases.

Totally agree with both of your statements.
To be clear, I assume Other People = England.
Many thanks to DB, David & others who at least get Ares to think about their suggestions.