Sails of Glory in general

[Berthier]

Agree with Karl, these were the Wars of the Revolution followed by the Napoleonic Wars..the 1812 and other conflicts involving the USA were consequences of these European wars, they would not have occurred then without them (with the possible exception of the intervention in N Africa.) Also the Russo-Finnish War, the Russo-Turkish War, Swedish-Norwegian fights, even the earlier Polish partition are all symptoms of the struggle for hegemony in Europe as the power of some monarchs/empires wained (Turkey, Spain, perhaps Austria) and others rose (Russia, Prussia and England). It's what makes this period of history so interesting, a true time of fundamental change whose origins lie in the Enlightenment, repeated crop failures across Europe, the weakening of the authority of religious power, the commencement of industrialization..there are so many things happening in Europe from 1780-1815 it's often hard to discern what caused what!

[Churruca]

there are so many things happening in Europe from 1780-1815 it's often hard to discern what caused what!

Very good point!

[Capt P]

Excellent information. Much appreciated of THANKS much.

[Capt P]

Don't know what my post went here but was for a different thread.

[Capt P]

Thanks for the information. I sent this before but went to another thread and dont know why.

[Coog]

One of the nice things about gaming is that you can play out hypothetical "what ifs." One game some friends and I played had a neutral, pre-War of 1812, U.S. 44 escorting U.S. merchantmen out of New Orleans into a French port. As the ships approached the port, they were intercepted by three British sloops, enforcing a blockade. The U.S. 44 got between the merchantmen and the sloops. The sloops fired upon the 44 when they were within range and the fight was on. A British squadron of a 74 and three frigates sailed into the fight as two French 74s with two French 40s came out of port and into the battle. The French crew quality was poor while the British crews quality was above average. The British unexpectedly disengaged from the fight, badly battered, but not before a British frigate was boarded and taken by the French. However the fight was a draw as some of the merchantmen were lost. One could only imagine the shock there would have been in Britain with a British squadron being chased off by a French squadron and a British frigate being taken by them in the process!

[Comte de Brueys]

A good result for your 44 blockade runner. :)

[rrrreubanks]

Sigh...why do we always have to wait on the good things in life? Well, at least we'll all become extremely familiar with each other after a year of talking on a web site for a game that isn't out yet!

I agree that we'll probably be able to take models and use them for other nations' ships.

[Coog]

If they don't get something out soon we can always make this site "Wooden Ships and Iron Men of Glory". It seems everybody owns or at least played that game.

[Churruca]

If they don't get something out soon we can always make this site "Wooden Ships and Iron Men of Glory". It seems everybody owns or at least played that game.

I'm afraid "ALMOST everybody". I even didn't know that board game.

[Mark Barker]

I'm afraid "ALMOST everybody". I even didn't know that board game.

An absolute classic, well worth seeking out even today. It was WS&IM that got really me into wargaming back in the 1980s.

The original version was published by Battleline and then by Avalon Hill - the AH version is still pretty easy to pick up without paying daft prices.

Just remember to play it the way the designer intended - with 1 melee round fought per turn and not 3 as in the AH printing. This makes "grapple and board" far more effective than it was historically.

There are two modern successors to the WS&IM style currently in print - Mark Campbell's Close Action - which is a level of complexity higher than WS&IM when it comes to shiphandling, damage recording and detail signalling and Mike Nagel's Flying Colors - which simplifies damage recording etc compared to WS&IM in favour or speed of play with an element of command and control thrown in.

I enjoy both, but then Napoleonic Naval is my main gaming interest.

Best wishes,

Mark Barker
The Inshore Squadron

[rrrreubanks]

I agree....if you've never seen or played WSIM you owe it to yourself to get it. It truly is a classic, and it's fun to play! I have taken the rules, converted hexes to inches, and used it with miniatures.

[Gunner]

"converted hexes to inches, and used it with miniatures"

That's the way we play it. Drinking grog ( Pussers rum & lime juice ) and playing a pirate action withe 4 pirate ships fighting each other for a buried treasure chest on a island was the most fun I've had, of all the games I've played.

[Cpt Kangaroo]

Mark, It might interest you to check this link.

http://www.kjkoster.org/wsim/

This was a classic for many years and was probably the first board game I ever converted to miniatures.

Up until now, I have not found something that will quite replace it.

I am really looking forward to this game to be released as I feel positive this will do just that.

Enjoy!

Erin

[Mark Barker]

Interesting to see WS&IM being converted to miniatures as it came from a miniatures game in the first place - S Craig Taylor's Ship o' the Line !

... and yes I've got a copy of that too (being something of a completist when it comes to Age of Sail naval rules)

It is well worth a read in its own right - trickier to pick up though.

My boardgame play tends to be with Flying Colors these days as it plays even faster than WS&IM (less fine detail on the damage side) and so really big fleet actions become playable.

I see Sails of Glory in the WS&IM level of complexity, more rewarding for single ship duels and small squadrons but you are going to need a club project or something for the major clashes.

Mark Barker
The Inshore Squadron

[rrrreubanks]

I didn't realize WSIM came from that rule set! I think I still have a copy myself laying around in a box somewhere. What was old is new again, eh?

[David Manley]

... and yes I've got a copy of that too (being something of a completist when it comes to Age of Sail naval rules)

I not only have a copy, but also a playmat that a friend gridded for use with the rules :)

[csadn]

I see Sails of Glory in the WS&IM level of complexity, more rewarding for single ship duels and small squadrons but you are going to need a club project or something for the major clashes.

[sigh] You *do* realize someone is now going to take up the gauntlet, and try to run Trafalgar in _SoG_.... :)

"We opened the door, and found two dust-covered skeletons, in amongst a bunch of small plastic ship models...."

(_Gamestore of the Mysteries_, anyone? :) )

[Mark Barker]

I didn't realize WSIM came from that rule set! I think I still have a copy myself laying around in a box somewhere. What was old is new again, eh?

You're right !

Craig Taylor wrote an article in the AH General with the developer (Mick Uhl, I think) called "Care and Feeding of a Square Rigger" dealing with the genesis of the game from its beginnings before SotL into something commercially viable. An interesting insight into the process of wargames design.

Mark Barker
The Inshore Squadron

[Capt P]

I have to bring out my copy of WS&IM. I have never played it but have many AH games. My first was Gettysburg & Tactics back in the early 60's. I think I payed .50 for both.

[Gunner]

[QUOTE= I think I payed .50 for both.[/QUOTE]

Go ahead. Rub it in.

[Killick]

Well before I can get any gaming in the ships are a must, I know there a few companies who produce metal ship but as stated I cannot make metal models. I am prepared to wait for the mins and rules come out.

[Capt P]

Just saw the post on release date and great news. Gives me time to save up.

[Horatio]

What is the latest release date for SoG, anyone know?
I want to know if my pension will cover it:D

Just saw the post on release date and great news. Gives me time to save up.

[Coog]

Ares has not put anything out on a release date. With the Wings of Glory items now being released regularly, I wouldn't expect anything any earlier than the Fall or Winter at best.

[Gunner]

I want to know if my pension will cover it:D

Only if your house and car is paid off.

[Diamondback]

Also, I'd hope we'd go smaller than frigates, like all the way down to little sloops--if Ares is gonna try to tap the Cult of Piracy market, most pirate ships were typically very small and agile vessels, Queen Anne's Revenge probably being the all-time recordholder for size and power.

If Andrea taps that market and keeps a special "pirate" line in permanent production, it could be a permanent revenue stream for the game...

[Comte de Brueys]

You want to hunt helpless traders wit a sloop? :p

I wonder if Ares is able to introduce frigates between all those 74+ ships of the line.

[Diamondback]

No, I want to curbstomp those insufferable terrorists of the sea... but I'm also seeing a HUGE revenue stream there. (In the old WizKids Pirates CSG, I always preferred to play with a "legitimate navy's" ships myself.)

[Coog]

I am waiting to see more of the first official ships and cards. With the talented people we have on the WoG site that will be on this one also, I'm sure there will be cards made up for all types of ships based on the offical cards. There are plenty of ship models around that can be used with those cards until offical ships and cards are released.

[Cap't Trigger]

Really looking forward to the proposed release date..... Here's hoping it all comes to fruition. (Necks a tot)

[Berthier]

Came across a production schedule for Ares right through to Feb 2013 and no mention of SOG...so we must be looking a a minimum of second quarter of 2013 unless they are going to spring a surprise release on us.

[Comte de Brueys]

Ares Games has a run with the Wings of Glory Product at the moment.

I think this delays the Sails of Glory a little bit.

It's ok if they work on the product a little bit longer to present us a fantastic game like WoW and WoG.:D

[Coog]

I am thinking now that Ares has put out the items which Nexus had already done much development, SoG may come out before WWI series 6 and WWII series 4.

[Gunner]

I am thinking now that Ares has put out the items which Nexus had already done much development, SoG may come out before WWI series 6 and WWII series 4.

I wish I had your attitude and faith. Really.

[Coog]

I wish I had your attitude and faith. Really.

But I am also thinking that it could be a very long time before we see WWI series 6 and WWII series 4 (Unless the 2 new bi-planes are considered series 4?), so just because SoG might come before them, we still may not see SoG for a long time.:(

[Comte de Brueys]

I don't think so, Bobby... :(

WW II series 4 is already announced and Ares Games offered new pictures of the planes (biplanes, Bf110 & Beaufighter). Reprints of WW I series I are announced for Christmas.

Maybe we'll see Sails of Glory before WW I series 6.

[Diamondback]

Adding to prior data in "Production Preview"...

IF the HMS Britannia we saw a prototype card for is the 1745 Establishment 100-gun version like I THINK it is, then it could plausibly be reprinted as the 1756 HMS Royal George along with Nelson's Victory--the blueprints originally used to build RG when it was reconstructed from the timbers of 1702 HMS Royal Anne were sent to the yard for use in building the future Trafalgar flagship. As far as I can see, this class would be a One Print Wonder (neither Wikipedia nor ThreeDecks confirms St. George, Princess Royal or Barfleur in this case, though if they are also that means maybe two printings)--the other 1745 Est. 100-gun, HMS Hind, is over 60' shorter and around 20' narrower and thus would need a whole new sculpt... my guess is Hind was found so small and problematic at sea that the others were stretched to improve seaworthiness and be more stable gun-platforms.

The Bellona/Arrogants (excellent choice, another fairly common design; I saw a specific mention of an Arrogant in the CAD renders on FB) were seventeen strong--in addition to Bellona, I think we can count on Napoleon's seagoing personal nemesis HMS Bellerophon. Could also be reprinted as the 1760 Ramillies class that's a slightly evolved version of the same design, which adds nine reprints to the pool, yielding a population approximately equal to the Temeraire family-tree as far as I've found.

Trying to find data on the Intrepide we saw a card for, but I need help refining WHICH ship by that name it is to even start.

[Diamondback]

Adding findings on Intrepide:

She started life as the Spanish Intrepido, and Spanish SOL's Infante Don Pelayo (sold to France, became Desaix) and San Ildefonso (captured by RN, became HMS Ildefonso) are almost dead matches on the specs at ThreeDecks, though not having plans I can't be totally certain. I would not rule this class out as a Wave 2 or 3 release...