Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 82

Thread: Wave 2 Mast Repair

  1. #1
    Admiral of the White
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    4,568
    Name
    Jim

    Default Wave 2 Mast Repair

    First, let me state that I have no doubt that Ares will replace any damaged ships from Wave 2. That is, in fact, what they told me in a KS email. So, the following information is only for reference if you don't have the tools, time or patience/skill to do the work.

    Because the break on the foremast was clean and flush with the deck I decided there must be some way to reattach or pin the masts back into the deck. Re-gluing the masts wouldn't work as there's nothing to keep them from sheering off again. I have access to micro drills, which I've been using for the Langton 1/1200 ship builds and lately the rigging on the SoG ships as well. Using one of the smaller drills to start a pilot hole I carefully drilled out an amount of plastic that would accommodate the shaft of a household sewing pin in the foremast itself. You don't want to start with a large drill as that will push out the plastic of the mast and potentially split it? I didn't measure exactly how far in the drill went into the foremast, but I'd guess it was about 1/4 of an inch or 6 mm. Drilling in the deck to hold the pointed end of the pin isn't as much of a concern as you have supporting plastic around the hole. Once the pin is in the mast you can insert into the deck, either a set amount or, just push the pin further into the deck until it feels really secure? I've not glued anything yet and I may not so I can adjust the mast angle for rigging when needed. I do fully expect to rig all of the big ships as it will dramatically improve the strength and security of the masts.

    Hopefully the pictures I took will give you a better idea of what I did, rather than my clunky description above. I've repaired two of the three damaged ships, and I'm quite happy with the results. The Orient lives again!!!

    Name:  MastRepair1.jpg
Views: 1536
Size:  108.4 KB
    Name:  MastRepair2.jpg
Views: 1548
Size:  93.8 KB
    Name:  MastRepair3.jpg
Views: 1561
Size:  146.9 KB
    Name:  MastRepair4.jpg
Views: 1590
Size:  75.8 KB
    Name:  MastRepair5.jpg
Views: 1532
Size:  100.0 KB
    Name:  MastRepair6.jpg
Views: 1598
Size:  104.5 KB
    Name:  MastRepair7.jpg
Views: 1516
Size:  97.5 KB
    Name:  MastRepair8.jpg
Views: 1446
Size:  89.9 KB
    Name:  MastRepair9.jpg
Views: 1468
Size:  112.4 KB
    Name:  MastRepair10.jpg
Views: 1533
Size:  122.3 KB

  2. #2

    Default

    wow, that's some delicate work.

    I envision at some point, sooner or later, a ship will be dropped and the mast will break, and it would be nice to have the ability to fix it. Not sure my fumbling fingers have what it takes. But at any rate, where do you get such drills? Are they expensive?

  3. #3
    Admiral of the White
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    4,568
    Name
    Jim

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmiracle View Post
    wow, that's some delicate work.

    I envision at some point, sooner or later, a ship will be dropped and the mast will break, and it would be nice to have the ability to fix it. Not sure my fumbling fingers have what it takes. But at any rate, where do you get such drills? Are they expensive?
    I just finished the third ship repair. It took about 10 minutes and having those drills makes all the difference. They aren't really cheap and don't ever drop them on a hard floor as you can see one of mine got snapped a while back. I looked everywhere locally to try and purchase from a brick and mortar store, but ended up using Amazon. They came very quickly and I really like the Amazon guarantee. Here's the link:

    http://www.amazon.com/Tungsten-Carbi...+metric+drills

    I can tell you that these drills have earned every penny I spent on them. I've used them in all of the ship rigging projects and they've come in handy for other projects too. The fact that you just use your fingers to twist them means you have complete control on speed and placement. Hope this helps? Cheers!

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmoss View Post
    I just finished the third ship repair. It took about 10 minutes and having those drills makes all the difference. They aren't really cheap and don't ever drop them on a hard floor as you can see one of mine got snapped a while back. I looked everywhere locally to try and purchase from a brick and mortar store, but ended up using Amazon. They came very quickly and I really like the Amazon guarantee. Here's the link:

    http://www.amazon.com/Tungsten-Carbi...+metric+drills

    I can tell you that these drills have earned every penny I spent on them. I've used them in all of the ship rigging projects and they've come in handy for other projects too. The fact that you just use your fingers to twist them means you have complete control on speed and placement. Hope this helps? Cheers!
    Thanks for the link - I am going to pick up a set. I have a mash up of mini drill bits some of which don't have a point any more and they were cheap to begin with. Although I have several painting projects lined up before any more ship work anyway!

    Eric

  5. #5
    Admiral. R.I.P.
    Admiral
    UK

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Norfolk
    Log Entries
    6,691
    Name
    David

    Default

    It is good that we have such an experience modeler as you amongst our members, Jim.

  6. #6

    Default

    Great work Jim, as always I stand in awe..even when I'm sitting

  7. #7
    Midshipman
    Netherlands

    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Noord Brabant
    Log Entries
    158
    Name
    Thijs

    Default

    Great tutorial Jim, are those drill bits used by hand I understand? Could you post a pic of that?
    Seems worthwile to buy such a set!

    Cheers,
    Thijs

  8. #8

    Default

    Great advice, Jim.

    Unfortunately it's needed...

  9. #9
    Admiral of the White
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    4,568
    Name
    Jim

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ducky View Post
    Great tutorial Jim, are those drill bits used by hand I understand? Could you post a pic of that?
    Seems worthwile to buy such a set!

    Cheers,
    Thijs
    Yes Thijs. The bits are used by hand. Here's a pic to illustrate. Used between thumb and forefinger.

    Name:  DSC00816.JPG
Views: 1462
Size:  89.9 KB

  10. #10
    Midshipman
    Netherlands

    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Noord Brabant
    Log Entries
    158
    Name
    Thijs

    Default

    Cristal clear now, need to get some of those for the rigging!
    Thanx for the picture!

  11. #11
    2nd Lieutenant
    Serbia

    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Србија
    Log Entries
    539
    Name
    Heмaњa

    Default

    Good work, Jim! Useful tutorial!

  12. #12
    Admiral of the White
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    4,568
    Name
    Jim

    Default

    For anyone who might be interested there's a discussion on the damaged ship problem on Board Game Geek. One of the members has another fix for the broken masts. He simply uses a pin vice drill to make a new hole in the deck and then re-glues the mast into the spot.

    http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1172...arrived/page/2

  13. #13

    Default



    Beside this repairs, a broken mast is always a disturbance.

    Have to think one a few WGS propeller blades, that I had to fix.

  14. #14

    Default

    Is it just me, or does it look like a lot of sail mass for the 1st rate battle masts to support, without the extra plastic that the full sail masts have. (reason for breakage?)

    You might have to read this twice for it to make sense.

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Comte de Brueys View Post


    Beside this repairs, a broken mast is always a disturbance.

    Have to think one a few WGS propeller blades, that I had to fix.
    You were lucky, I have a few without the broken propeller blades.

  16. #16
    Admiral of the White
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    4,568
    Name
    Jim

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner View Post
    Is it just me, or does it look like a lot of sail mass for the 1st rate battle masts to support, without the extra plastic that the full sail masts have. (reason for breakage?)

    You might have to read this twice for it to make sense.
    I know what you're saying, but then I'd expect the main mast to be snapping too? As far as I've been able to determine from various posts this is almost exclusively happening to the foremasts?

  17. #17
    Able Seaman
    United States

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    PA
    Log Entries
    51
    Name
    Airborne

    Default

    Yeah, I think people don't realize the amount of play a ship has within the plastic blister. It can move more than you think and with the cheap and thin plastic for the dark blisters it deforms really bad. So slamming back and forth within the blister can cause a lot of torque if the blister gives it room to move and then stops it once it has momentum. Combining the same blister for the two 1st Rates probably saved them a few pennies per ship. But now they will be replacing a lot of ships because of that choice to fit two different shaped ships in the same weak blister.

  18. #18
    Retired Admiral of the Fleet
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Chicago/Bloomington IL
    Log Entries
    5,095
    Name
    Eric

    Default

    Excellent, Jim.

    Thank you for your demonstration, and for the amazon link.

  19. #19
    Captain of the Fleet
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    South Glos
    Log Entries
    2,220
    Name
    Chris

    Default

    Just to be clear, for myself, is the problem :

    1. Just with the French three dockers or all the ships?

    2. The broken mast is just the foremast?

    I am still waiting for mine to arrive in UK! but am dreading the arrival after reading about this. Yet the article on BGG they seem to think breakage is very small, 5% they seem to think.

    Anyway, excellent repair job done I will have to check my drills

  20. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Capn Duff View Post
    Just to be clear, for myself, is the problem :

    1. Just with the French three dockers or all the ships?

    2. The broken mast is just the foremast?

    I am still waiting for mine to arrive in UK! but am dreading the arrival after reading about this. Yet the article on BGG they seem to think breakage is very small, 5% they seem to think.

    Anyway, excellent repair job done I will have to check my drills
    based on the ~15 reports on Kickstarter, plus the Anchorage:

    1) it would seem about 60% are the French first-rates, maybe 30% are the British first-rates, and about 10% are the big frigates

    2) everyone that has specifically mentioned which mast is broken mentioned foremast. I think that is virtually all the problems

    3) I don't know about BGG, but it seems to me that the damage rate is probably something like 15-20%. On Kickstarter every reports has been of between 2 and 6 broken. Of course maybe there are some good orders that haven't been posted, and maybe some people with damage received multiple copies of the 12 ships...

  21. #21
    Captain of the Fleet
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    South Glos
    Log Entries
    2,220
    Name
    Chris

    Default

    Kk cheers Fred, when I finally get mine ?I'll post to let you all know

  22. #22

    Default

    Of the 24 I received today (2 full sets), 3 were broken at foremast and two were "wobbly" probably can stabilize with super glue. I'm very concerned about future breakages though. The warning sign seems to be the models that break have a foremast that will vibrate when the model is tapped whereas the other masts stay relatively still.

    Damaged models were
    SGN 105C Sybille/Amelia
    SGN 106C Imperial/Republique Francais
    SGN 106B Orient/L'Austerlitz

    Wobbly models
    SGN 106A Montagne/Commerce de Marseille
    SGN 105B Proserpine/Dryade

  23. #23
    2nd Lieutenant
    Serbia

    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Србија
    Log Entries
    539
    Name
    Heмaњa

    Default

    I forecast a lot of pinning in the future...

  24. #24
    Admiral of the White
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    4,568
    Name
    Jim

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Пилот View Post
    I forecast a lot of pinning in the future...
    Yes, most likely.

    I was also thinking that if Keith got a production of custom brass ratlines out for Wave 2 as soon as possible (focusing on the 1st rates and frigates) those would go a long way towards stabilizing the masts? Of course it may well be that Ares and the production factory will have a solution in place before then and everyone's replacement ships wont necessarily need them?

  25. #25
    2nd Lieutenant
    Serbia

    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Србија
    Log Entries
    539
    Name
    Heмaњa

    Default

    One thing is sure - Ares will have to work on packing. Seems they have large percent of broken miniatures. On the other hand, they offered generous solution. One could even wish to get all minis broken, to double his Wave 2 :) But, as things are going, for now I'll stay just on my starter set.

  26. #26
    Midshipman
    Netherlands

    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Noord Brabant
    Log Entries
    158
    Name
    Thijs

    Default

    Had the same solution with some planes, they really care about their customers!!

  27. #27
    2nd Lieutenant
    Germany

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Nordrhein-Westfalen
    Log Entries
    727
    Name
    Ulrich

    Default

    I received my package today...4 broken ships:
    Orient
    Imperial
    Montagne
    Proserpine

    Hope that ares will find a solution

  28. #28

    Default

    Damn - all French 1st rates broken.

  29. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Comte de Brueys View Post
    Damn - all French 1st rates broken.
    I see their shipping realistic models now.

  30. #30
    2nd Lieutenant
    Germany

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Nordrhein-Westfalen
    Log Entries
    727
    Name
    Ulrich

    Default

    Jep, but I loves when I can do it.....

  31. #31
    Surveyor of the Navy
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Log Entries
    3,143
    Name
    David

    Default

    For info, I've completed a series of mast repairs using "Mek Pak" liquid glue (wasn't feeling in the mood for drilling and pinning, other than a slight drilling out of the deck to a depth of around 1mm) and the repaired masts don't seem to vibrate as much as the intact masts on the other models. Interesting, and I'm trying to figure out why.

  32. #32
    2nd Lieutenant
    Germany

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Nordrhein-Westfalen
    Log Entries
    727
    Name
    Ulrich

    Default

    Give me a help: what is Mek Pak ? something like we say in German :" Kontaktkleber" ( contact cement ) ?

  33. #33
    Surveyor of the Navy
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Log Entries
    3,143
    Name
    David

    Default

    It is a very thin liquid glue for sticking plastic which is very quick acting. Like normal glue for sticking plastic kits together it dissolves the plastic which then sets, but it is quicker (and chemically rather nastier) than the typical liquid poly glue that you get in high street model shops.

  34. #34
    Retired Admiral of the Fleet
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Chicago/Bloomington IL
    Log Entries
    5,095
    Name
    Eric

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    the repaired masts don't seem to vibrate as much as the intact masts on the other models. Interesting, and I'm trying to figure out why.
    I wonder if the manufacturer implemented a cost-cutting measure that resulted in the change in mast strength. Your comment points in that direction.

  35. #35
    Able Seaman
    United States

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Texas
    Log Entries
    61
    Name
    Kipp

    Default

    Please see the 'Second Wave update from Ares' thread for additional detailed mast information.

  36. #36

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 7eat51 View Post
    I wonder if the manufacturer implemented a cost-cutting measure that resulted in the change in mast strength. Your comment points in that direction.
    To make what is no doubt an unwarranted and ill-informed generalization, that has been my impression of Chinese manufacturing at the moment. The first go around is great as the firm seeks to win your business, but after that there are constant pressures on quality as the factory works to maximize profit under conditions of low supervision...

  37. #37
    Surveyor of the Navy
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Log Entries
    3,143
    Name
    David

    Default

    make sure you don't lick the paintwork either

  38. #38
    Admiral of the White
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    4,568
    Name
    Jim

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    For info, I've completed a series of mast repairs using "Mek Pak" liquid glue (wasn't feeling in the mood for drilling and pinning, other than a slight drilling out of the deck to a depth of around 1mm) and the repaired masts don't seem to vibrate as much as the intact masts on the other models. Interesting, and I'm trying to figure out why.
    That's a similar repair which someone on Boardgame Geek did (http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1172...arrived/page/2). However, he doesn't mention what kind of glue he used?

  39. #39

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kippryon View Post
    Please see the 'Second Wave update from Ares' thread for additional detailed mast information.
    Is this what you're referring to?


    Creator Ares Games 5 days ago

    We are still working with the factory to determine the problems involved, and fix them on the production that we were currently completing. Possible causes identified at the moment include (1) the kind of glue used (2) the shape of the SGN106/108 blister and the fact it does not fit SGN106 properly (3) the more fraglie structural design of SGN106/108 sails. We expect that once (1) and (2) are solved, the design of the mast should not be a problem in itself.

  40. #40
    Able Seaman
    United States

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Texas
    Log Entries
    61
    Name
    Kipp

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner View Post
    Is this what you're referring to?


    Creator Ares Games 5 days ago

    We are still working with the factory to determine the problems involved, and fix them on the production that we were currently completing. Possible causes identified at the moment include (1) the kind of glue used (2) the shape of the SGN106/108 blister and the fact it does not fit SGN106 properly (3) the more fraglie structural design of SGN106/108 sails. We expect that once (1) and (2) are solved, the design of the mast should not be a problem in itself.
    I was referring to the Mast measurements I posted, which would be related to (3).

  41. #41
    Retired Admiral of the Fleet
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Chicago/Bloomington IL
    Log Entries
    5,095
    Name
    Eric

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmiracle View Post
    To make what is no doubt an unwarranted and ill-informed generalization, that has been my impression of Chinese manufacturing at the moment. The first go around is great as the firm seeks to win your business, but after that there are constant pressures on quality as the factory works to maximize profit under conditions of low supervision...
    I have experienced something similar. The meals Sue cooked when we were dating …

    Back from the hospital. As I was saying, ...

  42. #42
    Admiral of the White
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    4,568
    Name
    Jim

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 7eat51 View Post
    I have experienced something similar. The meals Sue cooked when we were dating …

    Back from the hospital. As I was saying, ...
    Ha! I'm surprised you recovered so quickly?

  43. #43
    Admiral of the White
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    4,568
    Name
    Jim

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 7eat51 View Post
    I have experienced something similar. The meals Sue cooked when we were dating …

    Back from the hospital. As I was saying, ...
    Reminds me of a joke I just got:

    Man Down in Aisle 5

    A husband and wife are shopping in their local grocery store and the husband picks up a case of Budweiser and put it in their shopping cart.

    ”What do you think youre doing?” asks the wife.

    “Theyre on sale, only $10 for 24 cans,” he replies.

    “Put them back, we cant afford them,” demands the wife. So he does and they carry on shopping.

    A few aisles further on along the woman picks up a $20 jar of face cream and put it in the shopping cart.

    “What do you think youre doing?” asks the husband.

    “Its my face cream. It makes me look beautiful,” replies the wife.

    Her husband retorts: “So does 24 cans of Budweiser and its half the price.”

    That's him in aisle 5. Cheers!

    Name:  ManDowninAisle3.jpg
Views: 1110
Size:  41.4 KB

  44. #44

    Default

    Thanks for the tips Nightmoss!

    $26, one broken drill bit, and serious eye-strain later, HMS Hibernia has reshipped her foremast. Granted it's about one-half mast width off-center to starboard now, but from 1000 feet who will notice...

    All I can say is--thank God I'm not a surgeon!


    EDIT: others have pointed this effect out as well, but it's striking how now the repaired foremast and the mizzenmast are rock solid when I move the ship around (for example if I set it down on the table), while the mainmast has a rapid wobble--of up to 1/8 inch or so at the top...
    Last edited by fredmiracle; 05-28-2014 at 14:18.

  45. #45
    Comptroller of the Navy Board
    Captain
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    WA
    Log Entries
    4,298
    Name
    [RESTRICTED]

    Default

    Sounds to me like I should adopt this plan, pray for breaks in 100% of Wave 2 Set 1, and that way get W2 Set 2 for free... the Beancounters are already questioning my forthcoming purchase of ONE set.

  46. #46
    Admiral of the White
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    4,568
    Name
    Jim

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmiracle View Post
    Thanks for the tips Nightmoss!

    $26, one broken drill bit, and serious eye-strain later, HMS Hibernia has reshipped her foremast. Granted it's about one-half mast width off-center to starboard now, but from 1000 feet who will notice...

    All I can say is--thank God I'm not a surgeon!


    EDIT: others have pointed this effect out as well, but it's striking how now the repaired foremast and the mizzenmast are rock solid when I move the ship around (for example if I set it down on the table), while the mainmast has a rapid wobble--of up to 1/8 inch or so at the top...
    Good to hear you've got your ship repaired and ready for battle. Sorry to hear about the broken drill bit (I've ruined several myself), but they do work great for repairs and/or rigging.

  47. #47
    Admiral of the White
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    4,568
    Name
    Jim

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Sounds to me like I should adopt this plan, pray for breaks in 100% of Wave 2 Set 1, and that way get W2 Set 2 for free... the Beancounters are already questioning my forthcoming purchase of ONE set.
    I wish Ares would sell the damaged ones (and there must be a substantial number at the warehouse), but I already know that's not going to happen.

  48. #48
    Comptroller of the Navy Board
    Captain
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    WA
    Log Entries
    4,298
    Name
    [RESTRICTED]

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmoss View Post
    I wish Ares would sell the damaged ones (and there must be a substantial number at the warehouse), but I already know that's not going to happen.
    Maybe they should be sold at a discount on Scratch & Dent "As Is" terms. :) I'd be tempted to buy whatever defective copies I could get from Waves 1 and 2 to experiment on or make derelicts, wrecks, etc, out of...

  49. #49

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    Maybe they should be sold at a discount on Scratch & Dent "As Is" terms. :) I'd be tempted to buy whatever defective copies I could get from Waves 1 and 2 to experiment on or make derelicts, wrecks, etc, out of...
    As would I.

  50. #50

    Default

    see, they can't have you guys fighting over the rejects :)

    I am grateful for the fix Nightmoss posted. My son has been dying for a first rate since day one, and it may be a long while before replacements show up. With the detailed instructions, as well as the knowledge that it was possible, I was just able to fix it to an acceptable level.

    Still, mostly what I want is reliable stuff I don't have to worry about. For other games I did some shapeways stuff, but it has been fragile enough and had enough breaks along the way that I've pretty much gotten turned off to it. I don't want to get to that point with SOG. So I hope I don't have to do too many fixes, and the replacements end up being reliable when they come...

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •