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Thread: Wave 2 is At the Warehouse

  1. #1
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    Default Wave 2 is At the Warehouse


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    Wait! I voted for June 16th. what's this charade

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    Admiral of the White
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    Actually, you're still in the running. The date for the contest is when the ships from Wave 2 arrive at the Anchorage, not the US warehouse. So, keep your fingers crossed!

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    Since I kept the Constitution and Victory, I will still be waiting until past Origins, I believe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7eat51 View Post
    Since I kept the Constitution and Victory, I will still be waiting until past Origins, I believe.
    You could always order from the Anchorage!

  6. #6

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    Are these being shipped from a company called Alliance Games in Indiana? If so I just got my notification, if not then I've bought something else I've forgotten about

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    Quote Originally Posted by Berthier View Post
    Are these being shipped from a company called Alliance Games in Indiana? If so I just got my notification, if not then I've bought something else I've forgotten about
    Yes, Daniel. That's the Indiana warehouse that Ares uses.

  8. #8

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    If the US warehouse is shipping defective ships, it is their responsibility, not Italia or China's, and they are at fault.
    If they were defective when they received them they should have separated and reported them. Time consuming yes, but in the long run more economical.

    Edit.
    OOPS! I forgot about the sealed cartons that are shipped to customers unopened. I was thinking of less than full set orders.
    Last edited by Gunner; 05-16-2014 at 11:35.

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    It sounds like the damage was done during the initial packaging stage, so the lack of quality control at the factory allowed the boxed sets to be shipped to the warehouse. The warehouse had no reason to open every boxed set of 12 ships. Now that they know about the problem, they might be able to do something about it.

  10. #10

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    Thanks Jim, lets see how "fast" USPS can get them to Australia...the world will hold its' breath.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner View Post
    If the US warehouse is shipping defective ships, it is their responsibility, not Italia or China's, and they are at fault.
    If they were defective when they received them they should have separated and reported them. Time consuming yes, but in the long run more economical.
    I must have missed something, what is this in reference to?

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    Admiral of the White
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    I think the Wave 2 ships were all packed in one box similarly to how they packed the KS Captains level boxes overseas. All the warehouse did was open the top of the box to put the corrected wooden rulers in the top.

    If folks ordered anything less that a complete set of Wave 2 the warehouse will know about damaged ships because they'll be unpacking the Wave 2 sets to fulfill orders. That's my speculation anyways. At this point in time I'm also going to guess that Ares will issue instructions to the warehouse to open everything and verify the quality of contents before reshipping?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berthier View Post
    I must have missed something, what is this in reference to?
    Daniel, there's been a high incidence of damaged ships in the Wave 2 orders being received. This is being addressed very professionally by Ares, but it is annoying for us and them that it's occurring. Here are 3 photos I just sent on to Ares at their request. It seems to be happening to all the large ships, but I did see one small frigate that was also listed as being damaged.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Berthier View Post
    I must have missed something, what is this in reference to?
    Look at the KS comments:

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...ombat/comments

    Seems like there is an issue with the Wave2 ships arriving with broken masts. Looking at the comments it appears to be a QC problem from the factory with the masts or packaging. One commenter had 6/12 ships with broken foremasts, and this includes the larger 1st rate ships. Ares is looking into it. Glad I passed on this, although I know from experience that Ares will fix it and get everyone new ships.

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    I only see interchangeable mast....
    But true Ares takes damaged Goods really serious.

  16. #16

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    Jim:

    Thanks for posting the photos. I did see someone on KS had broken masts on the frigates. Interesting that it is effecting the larger ships. Could be the package insert is flawed?

    Can you compare the masts to those on the Wave1 ships? Maybe they are too thin?

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    That's disappointing to see. As mentioned, I am confident Ares will respond appropriately.

    I think this settles my plans for this year's Origin's games - Wave 1 ships only.

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    Looking at the box pics: This is why the minis should have been packaged with the masts separated from the hull, for later attachment.

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    I really wonder what all of the broken Wave @ models will mean for retail stocks...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudotheist View Post
    I really wonder what all of the broken Wave @ models will mean for retail stocks...
    I don't wish to speculate. If anyone here knows it's probably going to be Keith.

  21. #21

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    Does anyone know if Ares has an inspector at the manufacturer in China?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeRuyter View Post
    Jim:

    Thanks for posting the photos. I did see someone on KS had broken masts on the frigates. Interesting that it is effecting the larger ships. Could be the package insert is flawed?

    Can you compare the masts to those on the Wave1 ships? Maybe they are too thin?
    Eric, sorry I don't think I answered your question? I do think the Wave 2 masts on the 1st rates might be thinner, but I've not measured them against the Wave 1 ships or other ships in Wave 2. I'll try comparing more closely later today. Someone, either on KS or BGG has suggested that the half circle slot on the bottom of the masts (which is used to orient the mast correctly) is not strong enough to keep the mast from sheering off? I couldn't say if that's true or not?

  23. #23
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    I took some photos comparing masts sizes between ships in Waves 1 and 2. I don't think there's much (if any) difference in size although the Wave 1 rope wouldings are definitely larger, which would make the masts look more substantial. If there is a difference in size you'd need a micrometer to measure it and I don't have one. See below photos for some comparison shots:

    Wave 2 1st Rate Mast

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    Wave 2 Frigate Mast

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  24. #24

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    Thanks Jim!

    That's a relief, much bigger issue if the masts were too thin. Could be down to poor packaging or poor packaging design maybe.

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeRuyter View Post
    Thanks Jim!

    That's a relief, much bigger issue if the masts were too thin. Could be down to poor packaging or poor packaging design maybe.
    I wonder how these were packaged for shipping. In the first wave the ships tended to be in nice heavy cartons for the Capt/Lieut packs. They were also buffered to some extend by the other components stuffed in there. Perhaps the Wave2 shipments have less packaging around them?

    If so, perhaps the channel will suffer less loss than the kickstarter recipients (I hope)?

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmoss View Post
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    Is it possible, that the black plastic inlay of the miniature boxes does not fit to the French first rates?

    I bet they packed the French 1st rates intact in those boxes.

    Have a look on the picture and see how the second mast is pressed against the black plastik inlay.

  27. #27
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    Until Ares finishes their investigation with the factory and warehouse I guess we're just speculating? I just saw another report of six broken masts on six ships via the KS comments section. I'm going to guess that it's all of the 1st Rates and not only the French ships? When Ares learns what the problem is I do hope they share it with us, although they may choose not to. This must be a huge headache for them and annoying to the folks who have received damaged ships.

    These are beautiful out of the box pre-painted minis. Wait until you see your frigates and sloops. Not only for looks, but for gaming purposes I think you'll be very pleased.

    And of course I've already started repainting the Ocean's, which I had to as they were damaged under fire (probably a British sympathizer in the warehouse)!

  28. #28

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    The attrition rate people are reporting is scary, especially when coupled with the fact that these apparently sold very well in pre-orders. No one has yet responded to Ares' KS question of whether anyone has gotten a full shipment intact (--of course people are more prone to post with problems than happy comments, but still, you'd think *someone* would have piped up about a successful shipment).

    This raises serious questions for me about whether Ares can possibly have enough reserve stock to cover breakage at this level, and how long the delays might be (and knock-on effects to other SOG work) if they have to do a reprint to cover the existing sales...

    But yes, it is all just idle speculation, motivated by my eagerness to get ships in hand (ok, and a little bit of rubbernecking...)
    Last edited by fredmiracle; 05-18-2014 at 19:53.

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmoss View Post
    These are beautiful out of the box pre-painted minis. Wait until you see your frigates and sloops. Not only for looks, but for gaming purposes I think you'll be very pleased.
    I'm SO glad I didn't order any first rates. I only ordered the heavy frigates and a sloop. I'm totally impatient to get them because you inspired me to pimp out a cool pirate ship from one of the heavy frigates. I figure the stats of a heavy frigate will act is inflated values for a Hollywood-ized capability pirate ship. One of the sloops actually has an American privateer as its second card side, so I figure I'll combine them for convention scenarios as an interesting loose cannon third party in a conflict.

    Now I'm just waiting for Keith to get his shipment in (I pre-ordered from him) so I can get these things in my grubby little paws.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredmiracle View Post
    The attrition rate people are reporting is scary, especially when coupled with the fact that these apparently sold very well in pre-orders. No one has yet responded to Ares' KS question of whether anyone has gotten a full shipment intact (--of course people are more prone to post with problems than happy comments, but still, you'd think *someone* would have piped up about a successful shipment).

    This raises serious questions for me about whether Ares can possibly have enough reserve stock to cover breakage at this level, and how long the delays might be (and knock-on effects to other SOG work) if they have to do a reprint to cover the existing sales...

    But yes, it is all just idle speculation, motivated by my eagerness to get ships in hand (ok, and a little bit of rubbernecking...)
    Yes, the damage rate is way too high, which is a concern for available stock to fulfill pre-orders after replacing the damaged ships. I can't imagine what the long term effects might be and what recourse Ares will have (if any) to recover the cost of damage ship replacement. Most of the damage reports have come in over the weekend so outside of some private emails from overseas to customers I don't think we'll hear anymore from Ares until next week? I do expect there's been some communication to the producers and the warehouse?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Blozinski View Post
    I'm SO glad I didn't order any first rates. I only ordered the heavy frigates and a sloop. I'm totally impatient to get them because you inspired me to pimp out a cool pirate ship from one of the heavy frigates. I figure the stats of a heavy frigate will act is inflated values for a Hollywood-ized capability pirate ship. One of the sloops actually has an American privateer as its second card side, so I figure I'll combine them for convention scenarios as an interesting loose cannon third party in a conflict.

    Now I'm just waiting for Keith to get his shipment in (I pre-ordered from him) so I can get these things in my grubby little paws.
    Yes, I'm pretty sure you'll be very happy with the frigates and sloops, but I'm very glad I did order all of the 1st rates. They are totally awesome for pre-paints and will impress anyone who sees them on a table with any of the starter ships. Ironically, I suggested we might get the wave 2 ships before the custom brass ratlines from Keith and that's exactly what happened for me.

    P.S. Be sure to post some pics of your pirate ship when you get it done. Our pirate thread has been mighty quiet lately.

  31. #31

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    How much wider & taller are the 1st rate sails & masts than the 3rd rate sails & masts?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner View Post
    How much wider & taller are the 1st rate sails & masts than the 3rd rate sails & masts?
    I think they're comparable in size, but I'll try to check more closely later today if I have time (chores you know). An early impression on the 1st rate sails is they've made them a bit thinner? They definitely look less bulky and more prototypical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmoss View Post
    prototypical
    As in not final, or as in more realistic?

  34. #34

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    I was just thinking that the 1st rate battle sail masts broken at the base, would look good as an exchange for the 3rd rate full sail masts, if they were close to the same size.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7eat51 View Post
    As in not final, or as in more realistic?
    As in more realistic. Model railroaders throw this word out all the time. I think it's a substitute for 'rivet counter', although perhaps not?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmoss View Post
    I think they're comparable in size, but I'll try to check more closely later today if I have time (chores you know). An early impression on the 1st rate sails is they've made them a bit thinner? They definitely look less bulky and more prototypical.
    Some photos of the 1st rate foremast against the Wave 1 3rd rates:

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  37. #37

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    Don't know if it's the camera angle but, the 1st rate seem a lot wider than the 3rd.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner View Post
    Don't know if it's the camera angle but, the 1st rate seem a lot wider than the 3rd.
    They really aren't. Probably the angle of the camera and a wide angle lens?

  39. #39

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    Jim
    Are you planning on designing a 4 master?

    I had to look a couple of times to figure out what you had done with this photo! I agree the photo appears to make them look thicker no doubt the vagaries of depth of field and angles.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berthier View Post
    Jim
    Are you planning on designing a 4 master?

    I had to look a couple of times to figure out what you had done with this photo! I agree the photo appears to make them look thicker no doubt the vagaries of depth of field and angles.
    I never thought of that?

    No, I was trying to show that the 1st rate sails are not as thick or as billowy as the 3rd rates the from the stater set and wave 1. Notice that the space at the bottom of the sails is much smaller as they reduced the outward volume of the sail. Which of these two is more realistic for sailing I wont guess. You should also see that they've made the yards rounder where the 3rd rates are pretty rectangular. Plus the scale of the yards looks more appropriate to the size of the sails?

    I think these modifications were meant for the HMS Victory initially, but then found their way into Wave 2 for overall improvements in the 1st rates (and the sloops and frigates too).

  41. #41

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    If I receive broken at the base 1st rate battle sail masts, I'm going to put them on some 3rd rates.
    I might even swap some good ones.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunner View Post
    If I receive broken at the base 1st rate battle sail masts, I'm going to put them on some 3rd rates.
    I might even swap some good ones.
    Sounds kind of cool to me! I hope you don't get any broken masts, but if you do and you make that swap be sure to show us some photos!

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    Thanks for the effort Jim in showing us the differences. I am glad it appears the sculpts are improving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Berthier View Post
    Are you planning on designing a 4 master?
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmoss View Post
    I never thought of that?

    No, I was trying to show that the 1st rate sails are not as thick or as billowy as the 3rd rates the from the stater set and wave 1. Notice that the space at the bottom of the sails is much smaller as they reduced the outward volume of the sail. Which of these two is more realistic for sailing I wont guess. You should also see that they've made the yards rounder where the 3rd rates are pretty rectangular. Plus the scale of the yards looks more appropriate to the size of the sails?

    I think these modifications were meant for the HMS Victory initially, but then found their way into Wave 2 for overall improvements in the 1st rates (and the sloops and frigates too).
    I think it has been suggested elsewhere that the breakage may have something to do with the furled foresail, which reduced the plastic on the mast as well. I do like the look of the furled sails as it would normally have been done for combat anyway. I think most of my Langtons have furled courses as well. Need to get rid of the sprits'ls (under the bowsprit) as well.

    Eric

  46. #46
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    I noticed something today while working on my repaints. The black plastic liner for the 1st rates are exactly the same, but these two ships are not really alike. I wont say this is what's behind the damage because the frigates are also suffering mast breakage, but it may be a contributing factor along with other things we're not aware of. See some pictures I took.

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    Well, Ares is already investigating the very same thing. Interesting note about the glue as well.

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...ombat/comments
    Last edited by Nightmoss; 05-21-2014 at 11:32. Reason: Added information from Ares on KS

  47. #47

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    Interesting, they are "more different" than the two 3rd rates in wave one I think...

    The glue comment struck me as odd, but I guess the idea is it weakened the plastic somehow?

    Isn't it weird that it's always foremasts?

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredmiracle View Post
    Interesting, they are "more different" than the two 3rd rates in wave one I think...

    The glue comment struck me as odd, but I guess the idea is it weakened the plastic somehow?

    Isn't it weird that it's always foremasts?
    It sounds like they think the glue either weakened the plastic or made it more brittle and prone to snapping (which amounts to the same thing I guess).

    It is very weird that it's always the foremasts.

    I've been wondering about the container these boxes shipped in? Could it have been dropped in transit? Keith joked about a Pacific squall in another thread, but if it's not the plastic, glue or inserts could it have been something between the factory and the warehouse? Speculating again. . .

  49. #49

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    Yes I'm curious where the damage has been happening. I ordered from an online retailer, and also a bit from the anchorage. So I'm now eager to know whether the ships that reach them have already done all the breaking they are going to do, or whether they will undergo further attrition when reshipped... perhaps the retailers will be packing them extra good now...

    in addition, I'd like to know whether it will be a good idea to store these ships in the packaging, or if that will continue to put stress on them and lead to future problems...

  50. #50
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    I recieved mine in and 4 of the 12 have broken masts. I hope somethings is done love these things and I have a bad taste in my mouth at this time and do not want to be put off buying any more
    bob

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