small question about scenario setup

[fredmiracle]

What do people think: when the scenario says a ship is placed "within half ruler" of something (say the edge of the map), does this mean the ENTIRE base must fit within the half-ruler, or that ANY PART of the base must fall within the half-ruler?

[The Royal Hajj]

with·in
wiT͟Hˈin,wiˈTH-/
preposition
preposition: within

1.
inside (something).

So for me, it has to all be within the half ruler mark.

[Beowulf03809]

And besides being gramatically correct, it's also standard for most wargames. You can't have any part of your base/model extend past the starting line in typical game setup.

[Ducky]

Depends If you use the entire base of the model for targeting or the main mast...
I would say If you use the main mast for targeting the main mast must be within half a ruler distance

[fredmiracle]

So for me, it has to all be within the half ruler mark.

That seems a reasonable interpretation, but it didn't strike me as cut and dried. For one thing, I don't think that's actually how we use this kind of phrase colloquially. If I said "the university campus is within half a mile of here" I would most likely not be saying that ALL the university campus is within half a mile of that spot, just some part of it (the closest part, or some part indicated by situational context). What "within" would really be conveying in that case is that the distance could actually be quite a bit less than half a mile.

Similarly, I found it fairly ambiguous what "within" is referring to in the scenarios, and/or trying to convey. It seemed to me that it could just easily be requiring the *distance* to be within a limit, as requiring the *entire base* to be within a distance.

However it sounds like maybe there is a convention about this usage specific to miniatures wargaming...?

[fredmiracle]

(In case you're wondering why I'm nitpicking, I'm trying to work out a scenario for the contest. I would prefer it to be consistent with the other scenarios. But when you are talking about a half-ruler and the big ship bases, the difference between *entirely within* and *any part within* can be significant. If the interpretation is going to be ambiguous, then some percentage of players might not find the scenario working as well for them as I had intended. I played a little with some more specific wordings, but not only are they inconsistent with existing scenarios, but also it seems hard to come up with an entirely unambiguous wording that isn't overly long and complicated...)

[The Royal Hajj]

However it sounds like maybe there is a convention about this usage specific to miniatures wargaming...?

There is as Beowulf03809 points out.

That seems a reasonable interpretation, but it didn't strike me as cut and dried. For one thing, I don't think that's actually how we use this kind of phrase colloquially. If I said "the university campus is within half a mile of here" I would most likely not be saying that ALL the university campus is within half a mile of that spot, just some part of it (the closest part, or some part indicated by situational context). What "within" would really be conveying in that case is that the distance could actually be quite a bit less than half a mile.

Similarly, I found it fairly ambiguous what "within" is referring to in the scenarios, and/or trying to convey. It seemed to me that it could just easily be requiring the *distance* to be within a limit, as requiring the *entire base* to be within a distance.

You are correct about how we use the term for stating where something is. But when describing where to place something... If I was to tell you to place a pencil inside a cup, would you place the pencil in it vertically so that all of the pencil is in the cup, or would you lay the pencil across the top so that at least part of it was "inside" the opening of the cup?

I'm glad to see you designing a scenario for the contest! For this I would state that the ship should be placed no further from the edge then half a ruler.

[Comte de Brueys]

I used the verbalization "half a ruler right behind" the other ship.

If you take "within a half ruler distance" literally, you can place the ship in musket fire range of something, too.

(collision warning! )

[Пилот]

Within something, as we here always interpreted, means whole base is, for example, is in the wood.

[fredmiracle]

You are correct about how we use the term for stating where something is. But when describing where to place something... If I was to tell you to place a pencil inside a cup, would you place the pencil in it vertically so that all of the pencil is in the cup, or would you lay the pencil across the top so that at least part of it was "inside" the opening of the cup?

But, if you said "place the cup within a foot of the pencil" ... ?

FWIW, when I was playing the published scenarios, and before I started thinking of this in the context of scenario-writing, I did NOT treat it as "the entire base had to be within the distance." For me, distance is measured edge to edge. So there is definitely SOME ambiguity, although it appears I may be (not for the first time) a minority of one...

Of course it's also not really that important for many of the scenarios.

Where it did seem to matter to me, I ended up using the not-terribly-pleasing construction: "placed so that no portion of the base is farther than a half-ruler distance from the map edge"

[7eat51]

"placed so that no portion of the base is farther than a half-ruler distance from the map edge"

Slightly cumbersome? Maybe, but very clear, at least to those who understand it.

[Bos'n]

This may sound simplistic, but don't you start the beginning of your turn by using the front of your base as to where you put the movement card. If you start the first turn with your ship half a ruler from the edge, shouldn't that be the front edge?

Just saying,
Bob