Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 75

Thread: Upgraded Ship's Mat

  1. #1
    Midshipman
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Maryland
    Log Entries
    114
    Name
    Todd

    Default Upgraded Ship's Mat

    Name:  ShipsLog.jpg
Views: 2995
Size:  152.9 KB
    So you can pick up your ship's log and move it around the table. The card stock I used isn't thick enough to support a maneuver deck, but you can put your ship reference card in that spot if you'd like. Also, you really need a lot of tokens for this game...

  2. #2
    Admiral of the White
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    4,568
    Name
    Jim

    Default

    I like it, and it's a great idea. The creativity that's showing up now that the game is out is pretty cool.

  3. #3

    Default

    Since I didn't play with full crew management in the demo game, I didn't realize how many tokens there are for that. That's kind of a messy pile on the right. This is not a commentary on your organazing skills, but a comment on how many there are and I'm wondering if that becomes a distraction.

  4. #4

    Default

    The more I see all the tokens, the more appealing lamination becomes!

  5. #5
    Surveyor of the Navy
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Log Entries
    3,143
    Name
    David

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeRuyter View Post
    The more I see all the tokens, the more appealing lamination becomes!
    I must say some of my local players are rather liking the idea of "old fashioned" games with dice and ship record cards wot you mark off with pens

    Still, thoughts are in hand on putting together an episodic campaign, so we shall see

  6. #6
    First Naval Lord
    United States

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Colorado
    Log Entries
    1,551
    Name
    Keith

    Default

    I'm working on a "Quarter Deck" product very similar to my Advanced Cockpits for Wings that will solve a lot of these issues. But like all of us, I need more game time to absorb all the little things that could be done to make the game easier to play from a components point of view.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cool Breeze View Post
    I just didn't want to be seen as the, "Thread Pirate Roberts" and get too far off topic.

  7. #7

    Default

    Name:  HMS Amazon.jpg
Views: 3418
Size:  168.7 KB

    This is an example, using a non Ares ship, of my customized grease pencil ship charts. This takes the place of both the ship log and mat. And requires the use of no chits. Still testing them, but set up is super quick, and they work well with the D30 damage chart.

  8. #8
    Landsman
    United States

    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    CA
    Log Entries
    10
    Name
    Tom

    Default

    That's very nice, Bob. I like that chart a lot.

  9. #9
    Midshipman
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Maryland
    Log Entries
    114
    Name
    Todd

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HMS Lydia View Post
    This is an example, using a non Ares ship, of my customized grease pencil ship charts. This takes the place of both the ship log and mat. And requires the use of no chits. Still testing them, but set up is super quick, and they work well with the D30 damage chart.
    Nice chart. How do you handle secret info (action selection and ammo)?

  10. #10
    Retired Admiral of the Fleet
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Chicago/Bloomington IL
    Log Entries
    5,095
    Name
    Eric

    Default

    Very nice, Bob.

    What program did you use?

    Keith, I look forward to seeing your Quarter Deck.

  11. #11

    Default

    @Eric & Tom,

    Thanks, these are done in Microsoft Excel. I scanned these to a JPEG, they are nicer in pure Excel file version. My gray purpled here for some reason. Playing our next game on Sunday, so we're working our way through the rules, I suspect some things on here can be removed or streamlined and somethings may need to be added.

    @Todd,

    These charts actually end up being smaller than the Mat+Log. If Secrecy becomes and issue, since all markings are grease pencil, just flip the charts over.

    Bob

  12. #12
    Ordinary Seaman
    Japan

    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Hiroshima
    Log Entries
    42
    Name
    Jeffrey

    Default

    I put mine into an A4 hard card case.
    Name:  image.jpg
Views: 1585
Size:  188.5 KB

  13. #13
    Ordinary Seaman
    Canada

    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Ontario
    Log Entries
    30
    Name
    Colby

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HMS Lydia View Post
    Name:  HMS Amazon.jpg
Views: 3418
Size:  168.7 KB

    This is an example, using a non Ares ship, of my customized grease pencil ship charts. This takes the place of both the ship log and mat. And requires the use of no chits. Still testing them, but set up is super quick, and they work well with the D30 damage chart.
    Hi Bob,

    I was wondering if there was any new news about your custom grease pencil ship charts project?

    Please advise.

    Thanks.

  14. #14
    Admiral of the White
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    4,568
    Name
    Jim

    Default

    This is strange. I don't remember seeing Bob's (HMS Lydia) post. The grease pencil ship charts would be nice, especially at conventions.

  15. #15
    Ordinary Seaman
    Canada

    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Ontario
    Log Entries
    30
    Name
    Colby

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmoss View Post
    This is strange. I don't remember seeing Bob's (HMS Lydia) post. The grease pencil ship charts would be nice, especially at conventions.
    Hi Jim,

    I only stumbled upon this thread by accident. I think a chart like this would be very useful for a variety of reasons so I am hoping to see if we can get an update.


  16. #16

    Default

    Name:  DSC05235.JPG
Views: 1354
Size:  136.7 KB

    Elmers glue and a .99 cent store clipboard works for me.

  17. #17
    Admiral of the White
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Log Entries
    4,568
    Name
    Jim

    Default

    Right behind the 8 ball I see?

    Several reasons why this grease pencil system might be convenient. Quick set up/clean up, combined log and mat, no chits and the potential use of a D30 damage system. I know there's been discussion in the past concerning the chit damage system and statistical probabilities, but I don't recall this iteration by Bob.

    It was posted last January and my brain might have been frozen due to the harsh winter?

  18. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmoss View Post
    Right behind the 8 ball I see?
    After two marriages and a few long term relationships, I'm used to it.

  19. #19

    Default

    I'm still plugging paper ship logs. There is the need to print it out before the game, but it solves the chit-fumbling and "game table real estate" issues...

  20. #20
    Comptroller of the Navy Board
    Captain
    United States

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    WA
    Log Entries
    4,298
    Name
    [RESTRICTED]

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmiracle View Post
    I'm still plugging paper ship logs. There is the need to print it out before the game, but it solves the chit-fumbling and "game table real estate" issues...
    In the line of historical campaign books I'm trying to sell Ares, I plan to have masters for copy/scan/print in the back of each book. Granted, the stats are a little modified to help save game time...

  21. #21
    2nd Lieutenant
    United States

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Arizona
    Log Entries
    568
    Blog Entries
    3
    Name
    Kenneth

    Default

    All of these are excellent and elegant solutions to streamlining gameplay while conserving table top real estate. If you guys need any help with the artwork (Ares might be more amenable if the artwork matches the current ship mats and tables) I can create that for you. You are going to need one printout per ship and a blank one you can fill in with your own custom stats for ships not included in the game. Ares should jump at the chance to reduce the cost of publishing the game. That's more profit for them and they could reduce the cost and weight of their ship packaging. It would be very easy to create a web page with radio buttons for use on a tablet. Rather than an, app, Ares could steer traffic to their website to use their online ship logs.
    Last edited by Kentop; 01-04-2015 at 08:43.

  22. #22
    Surveyor of the Navy
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Log Entries
    3,143
    Name
    David

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kentop View Post
    It would be very easy to create a web page with radio buttons for use on a tablet. Rather than an, app, Ares could steer traffic to their website to use their online ship logs.
    No good for the very many players who don't use computers or tablets I would be very wary of this.

  23. #23
    2nd Lieutenant
    United States

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Arizona
    Log Entries
    568
    Blog Entries
    3
    Name
    Kenneth

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    No good for the very many players who don't use computers or tablets I would be very wary of this.
    I would think that the number of non-computer literate players would be far less than the number of players who could take advantage of the technology. Of course, there may be an inverse ratio of luddites in the west countries of England, but across the pond, I think it would be a welcome aid to those of us living in the 21st century.

  24. #24
    Ordinary Seaman
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Yorkshire
    Log Entries
    41
    Blog Entries
    1
    Name
    Kevin

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kentop View Post
    I would think that the number of non-computer literate players would be far less than the number of players who could take advantage of the technology. Of course, there may be an inverse ratio of luddites in the west countries of England, but across the pond, I think it would be a welcome aid to those of us living in the 21st century.
    I don't own a tablet and I'm a computer engineer. In my profession, tablets are for managers and the marketing department.

    EDIT: That said, I think a companion app wouldn't be a bad thing at all. Just so long as "companion" doesn't turn into "requirement to play" ;)

  25. #25
    2nd Lieutenant
    United States

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Arizona
    Log Entries
    568
    Blog Entries
    3
    Name
    Kenneth

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozariig View Post
    I don't own a tablet and I'm a computer engineer. In my profession, tablets are for managers and the marketing department.

    EDIT: That said, I think a companion app wouldn't be a bad thing at all. Just so long as "companion" doesn't turn into "requirement to play" ;)
    O.K., everybody on this site: raise your hands if you think adding a webpage that simulates the ship mat and log would ever lead to a "requirement to play". It's just another tool to help people enjoy the game more. It's not going to replace ship mats. Neither are the upgraded ship mats that are being discussed here. Don't worry Kevin, nobody is trying to take your slide rule away from you (by the way, there are a plethora of excellent slide rule apps for your phone, especially one made for scale modelers).

  26. #26
    Midshipman
    United States

    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    CA
    Log Entries
    140
    Blog Entries
    4
    Name
    Gina

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kentop View Post
    Ares should jump at the chance to reduce the cost of publishing the game. That's more profit for them and they could reduce the cost and weight of their ship packaging. It would be very easy to create a web page with radio buttons for use on a tablet. Rather than an, app, Ares could steer traffic to their website to use their online ship logs.
    What a great concept. And if Ares were really smart, they's install some analytics to gather data in the background about who's playing and when, what scenarios and ships, and how the ships fared in the battles. Then they could use the ongoing play data to better refine their game system, and to better target their marketing. Players wouldn't have to use the web logs, but those willing to share this type of data and accept the terms would get access to use them.

  27. #27
    Surveyor of the Navy
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Log Entries
    3,143
    Name
    David

    Default

    I think having something like this as a free download would be ideal

    I think reducing Ares costs by going "soft" would be tantamount to cutting their throat.

    there may be an inverse ratio of luddites in the west countries of England, but across the pond, I think it would be a welcome aid to those of us living in the 21st century.
    I'll excuse you for not realising the rest of the world is also in the 21st century - last time I was at a major defence contractor in Moorestown we were (actually not very) surprised to hear from some of the staff that they weren't aware that we had TV in England. OK that was 20 years ago but I can see how the news might not have spread to the "West Country of the United States"

    FWIW I game with dozens of players across the UK, and I'm in close contact with a great many US players. The number who use tablets, computer moderated rules, etc. in their wargaming I can count on the fingers of one hand. many of them are, like Ozariig, in high tech jobs in government defence and other industries, and they like to get away from that s**t for a change when they play.

  28. #28
    Surveyor of the Navy
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Log Entries
    3,143
    Name
    David

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kentop View Post
    O.K., everybody on this site: raise your hands if you think adding a webpage that simulates the ship mat and log would ever lead to a "requirement to play".
    No, because that would probably kill the game. But thats what you hinted at strongly. How else could they "reduce the cost of publishing" and "reduce the cost and weight of their ship packaging"?

  29. #29
    Ordinary Seaman
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Yorkshire
    Log Entries
    41
    Blog Entries
    1
    Name
    Kevin

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kentop
    Ares should jump at the chance to reduce the cost of publishing the game. That's more profit for them and they could reduce the cost and weight of their ship packaging.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kentop
    O.K., everybody on this site: raise your hands if you think adding a webpage that simulates the ship mat and log would ever lead to a "requirement to play". It's just another tool to help people enjoy the game more. It's not going to replace ship mats.
    Please forgive me if I misread your first post. If they stopped packaging ship logs with their ships in favour of a web-based option, that would implicitly make their website a requirement to play. In fact, it would be worse than a companion app because an internet connection would also be required, in addition to the tablet/laptop. Imposing those restrictions would have to add some serious value before I would green-light that project.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm in favour of companion apps. But I'm with David in surmising that "reducing the cost and weight of their ship packaging" would also put an unnecessary limit on the number of potential customers for the game.

  30. #30
    2nd Lieutenant
    United States

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Arizona
    Log Entries
    568
    Blog Entries
    3
    Name
    Kenneth

    Default

    It's all about convenience, David. I use a Kindle to read books now. The books cost less, I never lose my place, and I don't have to burn a light bulb. If it's not for you, fine. I find that most people in "high tech government jobs" are secret Luddites anyway (that's why the government is so broken). Right now, there isn't anything available for SOG gaming in the form of apps or anything else. Give it a few years. I golf, and it used to be that you would never see anyone using a golf app on the course. Now, everybody in my golf league uses the things (they are still banned by the USGA for our tournaments, though). I also remember that, growing up in Suffolk, England, the telly had BBC 1 and later 2, and they both signed off at 11:00pm

  31. #31
    Surveyor of the Navy
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Log Entries
    3,143
    Name
    David

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kentop View Post
    O.K., everybody on this site: raise your hands if you think adding a webpage that simulates the ship mat and log would ever lead to a "requirement to play".
    No, because that would probably kill the game. But thats what you hinted at strongly. How else could they "reduce the cost of publishing" and "reduce the cost and weight of their ship packaging"?

  32. #32
    Surveyor of the Navy
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Log Entries
    3,143
    Name
    David

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kentop View Post
    It's all about convenience, David. I use a Kindle to read books now. The books cost less, I never lose my place, and I don't have to burn a light bulb. If it's not for you, fine. I find that most people in "high tech government jobs" are secret Luddites anyway (that's why the government is so broken). Right now, there isn't anything available for SOG gaming in the form of apps or anything else. Give it a few years. I golf, and it used to be that you would never see anyone using a golf app on the course. Now, everybody in my golf league uses the things (they are still banned by the USGA for our tournaments, though). I also remember that, growing up in Suffolk, England, the telly had BBC 1 and later 2, and they both signed off at 11:00pm
    Oh, I understand completely about convenience. But I also understand that whilst its OK as an option if the game in any way became dependent on soft copy, or if it became a "two tier" hobby then that would be a very bad thing.

    And, btw, I didn't limit "high tech" to government. Those you perceive as "luddites" are equally as prevalent in private practice and industry. Probably explains why they are so broken as well. Or lacking in worldly knowledge.

  33. #33
    Surveyor of the Navy
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Log Entries
    3,143
    Name
    David

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kentop View Post
    It's all about convenience, David. I use a Kindle to read books now. The books cost less, I never lose my place, and I don't have to burn a light bulb.
    I do a lot of my casual reading on a kobo, similar thing. Its fine for light stuff, and very convenient when travelling now that the archaic restrictions on electronics on airliners have been revised. For decent technical reading its paper all the way. No way yet that you can match the readability and versatility of a hard copy. A PDF or soft copy is OK for casual reference but not when serious work is at hand It'll come, just not yet (looking forward to an A0-capable Kindle!). And even my kids,who are always on tablets, PCs and smartphones appreciate the joy of a real book.

  34. #34
    2nd Lieutenant
    United States

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Arizona
    Log Entries
    568
    Blog Entries
    3
    Name
    Kenneth

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    Oh, I understand completely about convenience. But I also understand that whilst its OK as an option if the game in any way became dependent on soft copy, or if it became a "two tier" hobby then that would be a very bad thing.

    And, btw, I didn't limit "high tech" to government. Those you perceive as "luddites" are equally as prevalent in private practice and industry. Probably explains why they are so broken as well. Or lacking in worldly knowledge.
    Your fears of exclusion are unwarranted. The game will evolve. There's no downside to making the game more profitable for the owners and more convenient for the players. Baseball is pretty popular "out west" in this country. We even have a vintage baseball league (http://www.arizonavintagebaseball.com). The league plays using the 1860 rules! I prefer modern baseball, but old times games are fun too. So relax, there's room for everybody.

  35. #35
    Surveyor of the Navy
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Log Entries
    3,143
    Name
    David

    Default

    Ok, so how do you square reduced production and shipping costs, weights etc? Would you expect Ares to sell one line of miniatures with cards and one without?

    Why not go the whole hog, dispense with the miniatures as well and just play the whole thing networked on PCs and tabs?

  36. #36
    2nd Lieutenant
    United States

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Arizona
    Log Entries
    568
    Blog Entries
    3
    Name
    Kenneth

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    No, because that would probably kill the game. But thats what you hinted at strongly. How else could they "reduce the cost of publishing" and "reduce the cost and weight of their ship packaging"?
    ARES could reduce the cost of packaging by not having to include a ship log with each ship. Instead, they could include a lightweight erasable ship mat. The weight savings per unit shipped would earn them a fine profit that they could sink into wave 4 ships. The savings in publication costs (no more expensive die-cutting, varnishing thick cardboard stock) would save a them lot more money and make the game easier to play. I don't see how a change like that would "kill" the game.

  37. #37
    Retired Admiral of the Fleet
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Chicago/Bloomington IL
    Log Entries
    5,095
    Name
    Eric

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kentop View Post
    I would think that the number of non-computer literate players would be far less than the number of players who could take advantage of the technology. Of course, there may be an inverse ratio of luddites in the west countries of England, but across the pond, I think it would be a welcome aid to those of us living in the 21st century.
    Kenneth, this made me laugh. I was talking with one of my oldest friends yesterday, and we were having a laugh that I am an administrator here and on the 'Drome. Why? I am fairly technologically illiterate, and another dear friend calls me a Luddite. I did have a computer class using punch cards, but that skill doesn't seem in demand these days.
    “You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato

  38. #38
    Surveyor of the Navy
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Log Entries
    3,143
    Name
    David

    Default

    Because you were tying that development to a web-based aspect.

    Kind of goes against the "play out of the box" element.

  39. #39
    2nd Lieutenant
    United States

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Arizona
    Log Entries
    568
    Blog Entries
    3
    Name
    Kenneth

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    Ok, so how do you square reduced production and shipping costs, weights etc? Would you expect Ares to sell one line of miniatures with cards and one without?

    Why not go the whole hog, dispense with the miniatures as well and just play the whole thing networked on PCs and tabs?
    Your argument ad absurdum is exactly what I'm talking about. I think that the upgraded ship mat is a major improvement to the game. It would be much cheaper to print out a single sheet of high quality reusable stock than paying for all those die cut ship logs everybody is going to stop using anyway. The weight per unit shipped is greatly reduced, too. It's win-win and ARES remains in control of the product, instead of everybody using someone else's product thus reducing their profit from game extras.

  40. #40
    2nd Lieutenant
    United States

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Arizona
    Log Entries
    568
    Blog Entries
    3
    Name
    Kenneth

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    Because you were tying that development to a web-based aspect.

    Kind of goes against the "play out of the box" element.

    The web based aspect only duplicates the stuff in the box.

  41. #41
    2nd Lieutenant
    United States

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Arizona
    Log Entries
    568
    Blog Entries
    3
    Name
    Kenneth

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 7eat51 View Post
    Kenneth, this made me laugh. I was talking with one of my oldest friends yesterday, and we were having a laugh that I am an administrator here and on the 'Drome. Why? I am fairly technologically illiterate, and another dear friend calls me a Luddite. I did have a computer class using punch cards, but that skill doesn't seem in demand these days.
    I learned Fortran in college. I may still have the text book somewhere, right next to my DOS 1.1 book.

  42. #42
    Retired Admiral of the Fleet
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Chicago/Bloomington IL
    Log Entries
    5,095
    Name
    Eric

    Default

    In the games I have run at our FLGS and cons, and when playing with family and friends in our homes, I can't imagine many who would use an electronic device with this game. I think one of the things we enjoy is the lack of electronic interaction. That might be a reflection of the community I am a part of, I realize, and not consistent with others. I will ask them, though.

    I do think it would benefit Ares to put downloadable blank ship mats/logs, and possibly printed ones, on the website, especially if they continue providing the hardcopies with the ships. If nothing else, it would engender goodwill while not costing them sales.

    I agree with David's comment about "out of the box". I think requiring folks to go to the website due to non-complete components in the box would be counterproductive.
    “You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato

  43. #43
    Surveyor of the Navy
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Log Entries
    3,143
    Name
    David

    Default

    Ok, so there is no online element to what you are suggesting, just a wipe-clean log which presumably folds up in the box instead of the cards.

    I recall there were discussions at an early stage about how ship record cards should be presented, and something similar to this was, I think suggested.

    Actually something like this might help players using non-Ares models as a simple photocopy of an existing wipe-clean log and a laminator would work OK.

    Other benefits - chits could be replaced in the chit bags to preserve statistical correctess (and the chit sets themselves probably reduced in terms of the number of chits whilst retaining the same probabilities of draw - or even dispensed with completely and replaced with die rolls)

  44. #44
    Surveyor of the Navy
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Log Entries
    3,143
    Name
    David

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kentop View Post
    I learned Fortran in college
    Still plenty of defense and aviation contractors in the US and elsewhere working in Fortran - could be a nice side job for you

  45. #45
    Surveyor of the Navy
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Log Entries
    3,143
    Name
    David

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kentop View Post
    I think that the upgraded ship mat is a major improvement to the game
    I actually agree with you there. Its basically what I've been using for naval wargaming for about 35 years.

  46. #46
    Retired Admiral of the Fleet
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Chicago/Bloomington IL
    Log Entries
    5,095
    Name
    Eric

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kentop View Post
    It would be much cheaper to print out a single sheet of high quality reusable stock than paying for all those die cut ship logs everybody is going to stop using anyway. The weight per unit shipped is greatly reduced, too. It's win-win and ARES remains in control of the product, instead of everybody using someone else's product thus reducing their profit from game extras.
    I really don't know a good solution for first time purchases. I agree that, in time, more and more folks will replace the issued mats/logs with ones of their own creation, especially something that does away with the chits. I also agree that anything that can reduce the price of ships would be a good thing. But I can't help thinking that many will want to open a box and be able to play. My bigger concern is the cost of entry. I think Ares would do well to capture folks via the dual/duel packs we discussed, and if possible, some form of laminated logs/mats.
    “You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato

  47. #47
    Retired Admiral of the Fleet
    Admiral
    United States

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Chicago/Bloomington IL
    Log Entries
    5,095
    Name
    Eric

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    Other benefits - chits could be replaced in the chit bags to preserve statistical correctess (and the chit sets themselves probably reduced in terms of the number of chits whilst retaining the same probabilities of draw - or even dispensed with completely and replaced with die rolls)
    Exactly what we have been doing with the laminated logs/mats. I really like this benefit; it makes sense to me. With WoG, I use multiple damage decks to compensate.
    “You can discover more about a person in an hour of play than in a year of conversation.” ― Plato

  48. #48
    2nd Lieutenant
    United States

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Arizona
    Log Entries
    568
    Blog Entries
    3
    Name
    Kenneth

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    Still plenty of defense and aviation contractors in the US and elsewhere working in Fortran - could be a nice side job for you
    \

    That's what I meant by "secret luddites". Those guys that cling to punch card era code and turn their noses up at newfangled code like COBAL. I remember back in the day when I had an argument with the system administrator (of a centralized DEX-VAX system) about the merits of a GUI apple versus a Dos prompt. The guy was absolutely convinced that a GUI interface would never catch on with professionals, and you couldn't possibly do with a GUI what he could do with DOS prompt commands. I guess everybody remembers the millennium bug. Computer code was so outdated even then that it used only two digits for the year. COBOL was guilty of this. And yet, COBOL still chugs along, long after DOS became a distant memory.

  49. #49
    Surveyor of the Navy
    Captain
    UK

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Log Entries
    3,143
    Name
    David

    Default

    Nowt wrong wi' DOS 5 :)

  50. #50
    2nd Lieutenant
    United States

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Arizona
    Log Entries
    568
    Blog Entries
    3
    Name
    Kenneth

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Manley View Post
    Nowt wrong wi' DOS 5 :)

    I agree. DOS 6 was a pig. DOS 5 was the best of the bunch. There are lots of free virtual DOS emulators that run on modern machines. I'll use DOSbox once every year or so when I get the urge to play with AUTOEXEC.BAT commands.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •