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Thread: Update #53 News on Victory/Constitution and Future of SoG

  1. #1

    Default Update #53 News on Victory/Constitution and Future of SoG

    I figured this announcement was worthy of its own thread since it is about more than just delivey date.


    Project Update #53: A look to the future of Sails of Glory
    Posted by Ares Games Like




    Sails of Glory backers!

    The production of the first wave of Sails of Glory is behind us, and its arrival at your homes is ahead...

    As we wrote yesterday in the “Comments” page, custom inspection delayed the delivery of the containers to our warehouse from the originally scheduled date, and more than one week was lost.

    However the shipment was finally delivered (even if a few days late from our latest estimated date of November, 27th) and we expect the shipments of your rewards to begin any moment now. So, we think it’s now time to look toward the horizon, and see what 2014 is bringing us.

    Where are the Victory and the Constitution?

    First of all, let’s talk about the status of the first two new ships we announced as stretch goals during the Kickstarter, the Victory and the Constitution.

    Already during the Kickstarter, we had the first prototypes of these iconic ships developed by our production team. Their development has further progressed, but not as fast as we’d like. We want these two ships to be special, both in terms of gaming contents and in terms of their quality as models. The initial prototypes we got were good enough to produce these ships on a similar quality level as the rest of the range, but not to make them stand out as we wanted them to. This IS bad news in terms of their release date – we can estimate these two ships to be ready probably in Summer 2014 – but we took action to find the best way to deal with this delay, to get along with the development of the range.

    Fortunately, around the same time we started to work on the Victory and Constitution, we had begun to work on the development of several other ships – was it possible to develop them faster, and move them ahead on the schedule? Fortunately, it was. And here's what's happening.

    New Ships on the Horizon

    A little background on the reasoning we did on these new ships may be useful.

    During the Kickstarter, it became clear that we all want Sails of Glory to be playable on several levels – historical scenarios (before you ask - the authors finally delivered the manuscript with scenarios you can play with the first ships, and we’ll soon have the PDF available as a free download), casual play, and tournaments.

    The first wave of ships releasing now - including 32-34 guns frigates and 74 guns ships of the line - is a good start for casual play, and interesting as the foundation of several good historical scenarios... but we all want the game to be more flexible, more varied and interesting.

    The classes of ships in the first release are essential, but not sufficient, especially for tournament play. So, clearly it was a priority for us to expand the range as soon as possible, to cover a wider variety of classes. To achieve this, we needed to expand the line-up of models: first of all, including 1st rate SotL, but also some smaller ships, and different frigates from those included in the first wave.

    A first glimpse of the upcoming ships...

    So, what will this new wave of ship packs add to Sails of Glory? Our selection includes four new triplets of ships, for a total of 12 new models:
    •heavier frigates – 36/38 guns “Hebe” class frigates, flying both French and British colors (the captured Sybille);
    •powerful “Ocean” class French 1st rate, with more than 100 guns (up to 120 guns!);
    •agile sloops of the “Swan” class, in British (Swan), French (Alligator) and American (Thorn) versions;
    •and, last but not least, British 1st rate of 100 guns… the “sisters” of HMS Victory – the Royal Sovereign, Royal George, and Queen Charlotte.

    Once again, all these ship packs are going to be double-sided, featuring the stats of two different ships on the ship card, base and log.

    So, when you plan to release these new ships?

    With the experience achieved with the production of the first wave of ships, the pre-production on these models went ahead smoothly. As you can see from the photo above, pre-production samples are ready, and we can realistically expect the production to be ready in February (immediately before, or immediately after the Chinese New Year holiday) and to be in our warehouse in March.

    So, these ships can be finished a little later than the original release planned for Victory and Constitution, but well before we are able to complete the production on those two special models.

    What happens to my pledge for the Victory and Constitution?

    Of course, many of you pledged to add HMS Victory and USS Constitution to your rewards. We're not happy with the delay - and we do not want to "lock" your money for such a long time. So, we will offer three different options to our backers:

    (1) you can use your pledge for Victory and Constitution as credit against a purchase of the new ship packs. We will give full details in a future update, after the holidays – we don’t want to ask more money from you until we know you’ve received, played with, and feel content about the first batch of Kickstarter rewards;

    (2) you can keep your pledge for Victory and Constitution “as is” – to be fulfilled with those ships later in 2014;

    (3) you can get a full refund of your pledge for Victory and Constitution.

    We plan to provide you with a new update after the Christmas holidays, explaining these three options in greater detail so you can make your choice.

    What next?

    In addition to the release of these new ship packs, and of the Victory and Constitution duo, we have been working both on a third “regular” wave of military ships, and on the special release “Pirates & Merchant” that was discussed on the Sails of Glory Anchorage. But it's too early to go into much detail about these new items and to give a reliable schedule of their delivery date.

    Expect more updates from us in the next few days... We really look forward to hear from you as soon as the game will be in your hands.

    Thanks!

  2. #2

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    While there is some good news in the above I am a bit upset with the news on Constitution. This was the stretch goal that pushed me over the edge for buying into SoG. Having just read "Six Frigates" I was looking forward to getting the Americans in the fight. I am hoping that in addition to Consitution they do the other 5 ships especially the two that were only 38 guns to offer a varient.

    As for the delivery date they will get here when they get here. I am busy with other projects right now anyway. I told my wife that at this point we will wrap it up for X-mas and she can be done with me assuming it even gets here before X-mas.

    Good news that we can hope to see a second release in the first Quarter of 2014. Although I am not sure I fully understand how they can have the sisters for HMS Victory, but not Victory herself. Also good news that they are paying attention to the forum with the Pirates and Merchants. Barbary pirates would make for good additional scenarios when the Americans finally show up.

    Thoughts?

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    @Ares I would like to offer a fourth option with regards to update 53. Leave our Victory/Constitution pledge as is but offered all KS backers the oprion to buy the new set (before public release) and at a KS level discount. That way you raise the level of our enthusiasm and provide a compensation for the delay (tieing up our funds as you said). Other KS have made similar offers or given away freebies for excessive delays.

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    Oops! It would appear we are both flying the same colors!

  5. #5
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    My first reaction was disappointment with the significant delay on the Victory and Constitution as well, but I suppose if these are to be 'signature' ships then they'll want them to be especially noteworthy. Perhaps part of the delay also involves how to design their play in game? Not having played SoG I have no idea how they're play testing the ships (new and old) so that could be a factor too?

    I'm extremely happy to see a second wave release in the first quarter of 2014. That's almost unbelievable to be honest, but it would certainly help give the game the additional traction it needs upon what I'm guessing is going to be a very successful release. I'm not particularly happy with the lack of any news on any Spanish ship releases, but I know that Ares is going to focus on the British/French plus Merchants/Pirates for the immediate future. However, there are other nations out there besides the British and French so I hope they don't delay too long in getting to the Spanish, Dutch, United States, etc.

    I want my Santisima Trinidad, Santa Ana, San Juan, Rayo, etc.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaRoyal20 View Post
    @Ares I would like to offer a fourth option with regards to update 53. Leave our Victory/Constitution pledge as is but offered all KS backers the oprion to buy the new set (before public release) and at a KS level discount. That way you raise the level of our enthusiasm and provide a compensation for the delay (tieing up our funds as you said). Other KS have made similar offers or given away freebies for excessive delays.
    One minor problem here is that you can get retail discounts lower that the KS prices anyway. Okay maybe an early release date to backers but I always have too many projects going on so a delay is not that bad. I'll just Pre-order through the Anchorage.

    I think any disappointment with the delay of the Victory and Constitution is offset by the Wave 2 announcement (assuming it arrives at the promised time!). First rates, more frigates and sloops, oh my!

    You can always work up stats for US AWI ships using the 32s and the sloop as well.

    Of course I am disappointed that my pick a date is way off, but I think someone picked a date in June! Gunner you may need to have a new drawing for Wave 2!

    Eric

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    Ship stats for the smaller ships would be awesome. I might be a bit odd but I love battles with these smaller ships. It smacks more of the Lake Erie type of fight! Maybe stats are a project for our more seasoned veterans?

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    One more thing I didn't touch on, probably because I'm more of a modeler than gamer, but Ares noted casual, historical and tournament play. I know there's been some discussion of historical/tournament play in the Missions and Campaign folders, but I'd be very interested to hear more on how that's going to be integrated into the game. For instance with wave two ships on the table could you recreate the Battle of the Nile (would you want to)?

    I'm sure i'll be firmly entrenched in the casual play area, but hearing what others might be doing is still educational and entertaining.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaRoyal20 View Post
    Ship stats for the smaller ships would be awesome. I might be a bit odd but I love battles with these smaller ships. It smacks more of the Lake Erie type of fight! Maybe stats are a project for our more seasoned veterans?
    No not at all, there a few of us here interested in the lake battles and small ships.

    Take a look over at the Aerodrome and you'll see plenty of variant planes and stats, so I am that will happen here in due course.

  10. #10

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    Re: Delay on the Constitution and Victory, I would guess the reason for the delay is the fine tuning they are doing on these two iconic ships to make them stand out above the rest. (I hope)

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmoss View Post
    One more thing I didn't touch on, probably because I'm more of a modeler than gamer, but Ares noted casual, historical and tournament play. I know there's been some discussion of historical/tournament play in the Missions and Campaign folders, but I'd be very interested to hear more on how that's going to be integrated into the game. For instance with wave two ships on the table could you recreate the Battle of the Nile (would you want to)?

    I'm sure i'll be firmly entrenched in the casual play area, but hearing what others might be doing is still educational and entertaining.
    Technically you'd have to work up stats for an 80 gun SoL and a 50 gun fourth rate. Perhaps the 80 gun ships and the 64s will be the first ones experimented with. Should be easier than with WoG as it is mostly weight of shot with the SoL and less about maneuver decks, etc.

  12. #12
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    I would guess that the delay in the release of Victory and Constitution can be traced back to the design and detail upgrades that were done to the first wave production ships in mid production.
    By raising the bar on those ships, they effectively reduced the gap to the target standards that they had set up for the "Special" standards for those two ships.

    To maintain a noticeable differential to those two, they forced themselves "back to the drawing board" to come up with a higher design and production standards, and that is taking a bit of time.
    In the meantime, since they already have the original higher level standard that they had for Victory, they can release the sister ships using that work (as it is now close to the new standard ship spec) and push forward towards a higher standard for the two special ships.

    It seems to me to be a very good way to use the design and possibly tooling resources that they have already invested and get more product out to us sooner.
    I had always noticed a bit of increase in detail on the rerelease planes in the Duel Packs, especially the Richthofen DR1, so some of this Kaizen appears to have been going on at Ares for some time but possibly without as much official acknowledgement.

  13. #13
    Admiral of the White
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    So this ship is probably the first iteration for the Victory, and will now most likely be the Britannia, or Royal Sovereign?
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    From a personal perspective I see the wave 2 ships as being more useful than VCTY and CSTN. They have some interesting choices there that round out the French and British ORBATs considerably, as well as providing proxies for AWI, so whilst I'd love to have the two specials ASAP I'm entirely happy with the current plan.

    I think I've seen the stats for the new ships so I will keep schtumm, but it will be interesting to see what you guys think they could be

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    All of this would bother me less if ARES were a two man operation around the kitchen table. They are an established game company that has done lots of projects. I thought they would do better than this.

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    They are established, but i don't think there's that many more than two of them :)

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    Really? Then I retract my statement and take make my respects to them!!

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaRoyal20 View Post
    Oops! It would appear we are both flying the same colors!
    Yes, except I now have Rank, name and Time in service on you.

  19. #19

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    May I suggest broadsides at 50 yards:angry::angry:The last one afloat keeps their Avatar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaRoyal20 View Post
    Oops! It would appear we are both flying the same colors!
    One of you could take this one...

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  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ironsides View Post
    Yes, except I now have Rank, name and Time in service on you.
    What about reversing the direction of one of your avatars? Ie flip the picture so sailing directions are opposite.

    brucebeat me by minutes!!

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Ironsides View Post
    While there is some good news in the above I am a bit upset with the news on Constitution. This was the stretch goal that pushed me over the edge for buying into SoG. Having just read "Six Frigates" I was looking forward to getting the Americans in the fight. I am hoping that in addition to Consitution they do the other 5 ships especially the two that were only 38 guns to offer a varient.

    As for the delivery date they will get here when they get here. I am busy with other projects right now anyway. I told my wife that at this point we will wrap it up for X-mas and she can be done with me assuming it even gets here before X-mas.

    Good news that we can hope to see a second release in the first Quarter of 2014. Although I am not sure I fully understand how they can have the sisters for HMS Victory, but not Victory herself. Also good news that they are paying attention to the forum with the Pirates and Merchants. Barbary pirates would make for good additional scenarios when the Americans finally show up.

    Thoughts?
    My interest in the ship models being produced is somewhat lacking. Like you my interest is the American ships. I want the ships, American and European, that started being produced from about 1797 and used through the War of 1812. Although some of the ship models being produced overlap into the Napoleonic period, for the most part fit better into an earlier period around the time of the American Revolution. I probably won't be buying many of the ship models until models of a later period start being produced.

    As far as pirates go, I would think they would be the types found in the Caribbean instead of Mediterranean.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berthier View Post
    What about reversing the direction of one of your avatars? Ie flip the picture so sailing directions are opposite.

    brucebeat me by minutes!!
    It was just the time zone effect.
    You actually beat me by hours...

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    Had this in my email today and hope to see the Sail soon. Good news for me.

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    Oh no Richard PF!! I could never sail to the left!!

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    Old Ironsides: As Jim Thorp once said "Just keep your eyes on this old Indian(man)!"

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    I haven't seen the stats but have seen the paint maps and A&B-side name lists, so I'll keep mum on those--there are a few B's I have reservations about, but they made four solid choices on sculpts since almost all of the 100's and 98-gun Second Rates built from about 1750 to 1805, including Victory, were various tweaks on the basic 1745 Establishment 100 design. The Hebe 38 was indirectly the backbone of both the French AND British medium-frigate forces, between Sane successively evolving it into the Hortense, Virginie and Pallas 40's on the east side of the Channel and then the Brits building the Anglicized-version Ledas and their various improvements and other derivatives on the west.

    I have a spreadsheet with all the known names of ships whose designs are close relatives of the confirmed sculpts, and it's a huge document--believe me when I say if Ares did one reprint every year of Waves 1 and 2 along with the new waves for that year, even if there were no carryovers and they were all-new sister ships they would still run out of game before they ran out of ships to do on the 74's and the Hebe 38's--and most of us would run out of remaining lifespan before that.

    OT: Who IS our youngest member, anyway? I'm 33, and with the number of sites I'm on where I'm one of the youngest members if not THE youngest, I keep having recurring nightmares about having to be the one to "turn off the lights and lock up for the last time" for most of them.

    BTW, I tried to invite a semi-local from the KS comments page over to join us... be nice to her if she pops by or I WILL go all Jolly Roger on somebody. :p :)
    Last edited by Diamondback; 12-11-2013 at 15:44.

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    I am 62 and doubt if I am the oldest.

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    Speaking of Semi-Locals, I am in NE Ohio if there are any other SoG fans nearby, we need to meet up and run some games!

  30. #30
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    OT. Not the youngest or the oldest. Turned 61 back in September. "Future releases" was never a concern, but it most certainly is an item to keep in mind as the years pile on, and they do seem to be accelerating?!

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post

    OT: Who IS our youngest member, anyway? I'm 33, and with the number of sites I'm on where I'm one of the youngest members if not THE youngest, I keep having recurring nightmares about having to be the one to "turn off the lights and lock up for the last time" for most of them.
    You shouldnt have recurring nightmares you should be thinking about all the cheap minis you'll get when all the older members shuffle off....

  32. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Berthier View Post
    You shouldnt have recurring nightmares you should be thinking about all the cheap minis you'll get when all the older members shuffle off....
    At 73, I think I should resent that remark. But my body tells me that I'll be around when some of you youngsters are dust.
    I'm preserving my body from the inside out.:g&t:

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    It also helps to consider, most of my friends are between my parents' and grandparents' ages, and even my gal is only marginally closer to my own age than my parents' (which puts me in the unenviable position of Staring Down The Barrel at having to bury just about everyone I give half a crap about). Horde O' Minis ain't so much fun when the only game open to you with 'em is Solitaire... and being both autistic and a recovering recluse, building new connections is something I don't do easily.

  34. #34

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    Personally, and I'm a francophile as you all know, I think three French first rates is a bit much. It's a shame they couldn't have mixed them up with Spanish 1st rates but obviously this would have required another sculpt and they need to maximise usage of each one. There just isnt going to be many opportunities to use those ships in an historical situation, especially if you want to have any fun! (Unless you have a British fleet and want to solo the Battle of the Nile...still just roll a die and 1-5 the British win the battle and on a six roll again.)

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    Yeah I keep looking at these KS that are delivering a year from now and I think… Will I still…. Stop stop!

    And I'm not worried about who gets my stuff but if they will ever get it all painted! I didn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Berthier View Post
    Personally, and I'm a francophile as you all know, I think three French first rates is a bit much. It's a shame they couldn't have mixed them up with Spanish 1st rates but obviously this would have required another sculpt and they need to maximise usage of each one. There just isnt going to be many opportunities to use those ships in an historical situation, especially if you want to have any fun! (Unless you have a British fleet and want to solo the Battle of the Nile...still just roll a die and 1-5 the British win the battle and on a six roll again.)
    Don't worry after the British capture them they will be British 100's.

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    Don't forget they also produce Wings of Glory, WWI and WWII versions. They are pretty good on their time table for model releases. Series 7 for WGF is due to come out next month. They have to be a bigger company with more designers than just a couple of guys. Knowing this is what disappoints me with the delays. With most companies, you get paid when you sell your product. With a kickstarter, they already have your money so they can take their time and " do it right". I have only participated in two kick starters and I won't be doing anymore. My second one was suppose be delivered for Christmas, a present for my son. They raised 1.44 million for a simpler game than SGN but it is now delayed so they can "get it right". the minis aren't even painted or assembled. I don't think I will see it before the summer. By then, he probably will have lost interest.

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondback View Post
    "turn off the lights and lock up for the last time" for most of them.

    BTW, I tried to invite a semi-local from the KS comments page over to join us... be nice to her if she pops by or I WILL go all Jolly Roger on somebody. :p :)
    Hey, that means we'll have TWO people on the forum with good taste in shoes.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaRoyal20 View Post
    Oh no Richard PF!! I could never sail to the left!!
    OK, Here's a different image at 150 pixel width.
    Pointing to the right.

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    Of course, from the point of view of someone on Old Ironsides looking at the viewer,
    it is now sailing to port (left) of that viewer.

  40. #40
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    And a few more to choose from at 150 pixel widths all pointing in the right direction...

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  41. #41
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    If the Victory and U.S.S. Constitution are going to be such high quality models, I am going to be a little afraid of playing with them in case they get broken.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naharaht View Post
    If the Victory and U.S.S. Constitution are going to be such high quality models, I am going to be a little afraid of playing with them in case they get broken.
    That's a good reason to have more than one!

    I would bet that many people will have them just as shelf decoration pieces.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaRoyal20 View Post
    Speaking of Semi-Locals, I am in NE Ohio if there are any other SoG fans nearby, we need to meet up and run some games!
    I'm in Akron; there's a number in Columbus.
    Karl

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    73
    Name
    Steven

    Default

    Very excited to see the plans for expansion of the line already. First rates are obviously what a lot of less knowledgeable folk think of when picturing naval warfare of this time period. In this case, I am thinking of the excess of large ship in the Pirates of the Caribbean films.

    I am excited to see what is done for merchants and pirates. I think it would be interesting to have merchant ships with one side of their board lightly armed and the other side equipped as a Pirate vessel might be (ie loaded with guns and crew). I know this particular era was nearly a century past the "Golden Age" of piracy in the Caribbean, although the Barbary Pirates were still a scourge out of the Mediterranean.

    And on the side discussion, I am both a new guy and merely 25 years of age.

  45. #45
    Midshipman
    United States

    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    CA
    Log Entries
    151
    Name
    Michael

    Default

    I'm also extremely excited to see the Ares is planning expansions already. I'm with others that it would be nice to see ships from other countries - Spanish, Dutch, Russian, etc. But mostly I want to get my hands on Wave 1 right now - so jealous that others have already started receiving the game!

    Oh, and I'm 43, which apparently puts me on the slightly younger side here.

  46. #46
    Ares Games Staff
    Italy

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Livorno
    Log Entries
    28
    Name
    Roberto

    Default

    Good afternoon, mates! The crew of Ares Games is 4 people total in the editorial - production - graphic design - sales - marketing (as you can imagine, each of us with multiple hats), plus one part time person helping us with the web site and PR. We're not working in a garage, but we are still quite small. Of course most of what we do is in fact to coordinate the efforts of various people outside the company (authors, illustrators, sculptors....) - we don't do everything ourselves. That said, getting out a big game like Sails of Glory is always a great effort, and a lot of unknowns are always present in a new product like this one. Remember that these are the first pre-painted, pre-assembled ship models EVER produced in this scale... Quite new territory to explore, even with our past experience and the support of our amazing Kickstarter backers.

  47. #47

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Demiurgo View Post
    Good afternoon, mates! The crew of Ares Games is 4 people total in the editorial - production - graphic design - sales - marketing (as you can imagine, each of us with multiple hats), plus one part time person helping us with the web site and PR. We're not working in a garage, but we are still quite small. Of course most of what we do is in fact to coordinate the efforts of various people outside the company (authors, illustrators, sculptors....) - we don't do everything ourselves. That said, getting out a big game like Sails of Glory is always a great effort, and a lot of unknowns are always present in a new product like this one. Remember that these are the first pre-painted, pre-assembled ship models EVER produced in this scale... Quite new territory to explore, even with our past experience and the support of our amazing Kickstarter backers.
    Off to a great start even with the few hiccups.

  48. #48
    2nd Lt
    United States

    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Maryland
    Log Entries
    475
    Name
    Bob

    Default

    I have to agree about the start. Wings was already in production and ARES took it over. Sails is a whole new line. Hope to see other eras.

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