Frigates and Foremasts

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02-26-2013, 21:42
7eat51

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Frigates and Foremasts

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Book Title:
Frigates and Foremasts
Author:
Julian Gwyn
ISBN:
0-7748-0910-8
Category:
History
Format:
Multiple
Summary:
In this well-researched, academically oriented book on the North American (Halifax) squadron, the author recounts naval operations by British warships in Nova Scotia between 1745 and 1815. Beginning with battling the French for control of the eastern Canadian coast, the story shifts to conflict with the rebels to the south, the Americans.

This is a well-written history – clear, concise, and engaging. Its scope is narrow, but for those interested in British naval operations in eastern Canada, this book is an excellent place to start. With almost 30 pages of notes, and a 10-page bibliography, there are plenty of resources for additional studies.
02-26-2013, 22:02
Coog

This may be the book I've been looking for. There is quite a bit out there about the frigates and the one ship-of-the-line in the Halifax Squadron at the start of the War of 1812. But does this book give details on the smaller ships?
02-26-2013, 22:10
7eat51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coog

This may be the book I've been looking for. There is quite a bit out there about the frigates and the one ship-of-the-line in the Halifax Squadron at the start of the War of 1812. But does this book give details on the smaller ships?

This is far more of a history than any type of detailed account of given ships or engagements. Is there something in particular you are looking for? Any given ship(s) or engagements? I will be returning the book to the library on Friday, but I can go back through it as well as check out the bibliography for you.
02-26-2013, 22:17
Coog

I have gathered some information on the sloops on the Halifax Station at the outbreak of the War of 1812 but I am looking for something more complete. Mostly I am looking for ship names and information on their armament. I have everything on the Africa and the frigates.
02-26-2013, 22:34
7eat51

Unfortunately for your purpose, this book deals a lot with the behind-the-scenes, political and strategic decisions, etc., than with technical information.

I am about to post one last item on the 27th of February, and then hit the sack. I will look through the chapter on the War of 1812 tomorrow and send you a message with anything I find. I will also scan the bibliography.
02-27-2013, 10:29
7eat51

Hey Bobby,

Here is the first round of research. I will do more later today, but this should get you started.

In October 1811, the North American Squadron consisted of:
Flagship, 7 frigates, 8 sloops, gun-brig, 5 schooners
Africa (60) Flagship
Spartan (38)
Shannon (38)
Guerriere (38)
Melampus (36)
Belvidera (36)
Acolus (32)
Eurydice (24)
Recruit (18)
Halifax (18)
Emulous (18)
Atlante (18)
Tartarus (20)
Rattler (16)
Goree (18)
Colibri (16)
Plumper (12) - gun-brig
Paz (12)
Juniper (4)
Bream (4)
Chubb (4)
Cuttle (4)

Recorded in Sawyer to Croker, 6 Oct. 1811, Public Record Office (PRO), Admiral's Dispatched ADM1/501 fol. 217.

I requested another copy of the book from a different university, so I will have access to the material beyond this Friday if you think of more questions.
02-27-2013, 12:27
Volunteer

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7eat51

Hey Bobby,

Here is the first round of research. I will do more later today, but this should get you started.

In October 1811, the North American Squadron consisted of:
Flagship, 7 frigates, 8 sloops, gun-brig, 5 schooners
Africa (60) Flagship
Spartan (38)
Shannon (38)
Guerriere (38)
Melampus (36)
Belvidera (36)
Acolus (32)
Eurydice (24)
Recruit (18)
Halifax (18)
Emulous (18)
Atlante (18)
Tartarus (20)
Rattler (16)
Goree (18)
Colibri (16)
Plumper (12) - gun-brig
Paz (12)
Juniper (4)
Bream (4)
Chubb (4)
Cuttle (4)

Recorded in Sawyer to Croker, 6 Oct. 1811, Public Record Office (PRO), Admiral's Dispatched ADM1/501 fol. 217.

I requested another copy of the book from a different university, so I will have access to the material beyond this Friday if you think of more questions.

So where are our other frigates in this list? Is this only the squadron that was on the Halifax station?
02-27-2013, 12:38
Coog

Your information should be helpful. I am trying to put together a list of British ships assigned to North America at the outbreak of the War of 1812 for a possible campaign. By 1812 the frigates had changed some.

Africa 64 was still the only ship-of-the-line. Shannon 38 had become the flagship under Philip Broke. Other frigates were Acasta 40, Guerriere 38, Belvidera 36, Aeolus 32, Southhampton 32, and Minerva 32. Roosevelt makes no mention of Spartan, but other sorces have her operating off the east coast taking a few small prizes. Melampus and Eurydice had returned to Britain.

Recruit, a Cruizer-class brig-sloop was still assignd to the squadron.

Halifax was in placed in ordinary in 1812.

Emulous, a Cruiser-class brig-sloop was still assigned to the squadron but was wrecked while searching for a privateer at the outbreak of the war.

Goree, a Cormorant-class sloop was assigned to the squadron and turned into a prison hulk in 1813.

Colibri, French built, was still with the squadron.
02-27-2013, 12:44
Coog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volunteer

So where are our other frigates in this list? Is this only the squadron that was on the Halifax station?

Are you asking about American frigates? The ones we are discussing are British. Halifax was the North American port for the British Navy. American warships operated out of a variety of U. S. ports.
02-27-2013, 13:28
7eat51

The information I have posted thus far was based on a few minutes of revisiting the chapter on the War of 1812, and the associated notes section. I will continue going through the chapter, updating info accordingly. Notice that the info I gave was based on an admiral's dispatch dated October of 1811. I will try my best to include specific dates in subsequent postings.
02-27-2013, 15:17
Volunteer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coog

Are you asking about American frigates? The ones we are discussing are British. Halifax was the North American port for the British Navy. American warships operated out of a variety of U. S. ports.

Actually I meant the other RN ships, not just frigates, that were in America 1812-1814. HMS Hunter, Schooner Nancy 6, HMS Tecumseh, HMS St. Lawrence 112, HMS Prince Regent, HMS Wolfe, sloop HMS Detroit, HMS frigate Caledonia, HMS Endymion 40, HMS Java, HMS Cyane 32, HMS Levant 24, HMS Phoebe, HMS Pelican.
02-27-2013, 16:32
Coog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volunteer

Actually I meant the other RN ships, not just frigates, that were in America 1812-1814. HMS Hunter, Schooner Nancy 6, HMS Tecumseh, HMS St. Lawrence 112, HMS Prince Regent, HMS Wolfe, sloop HMS Detroit, HMS frigate Caledonia, HMS Endymion 40, HMS Java, HMS Cyane 32, HMS Levant 24, HMS Phoebe, HMS Pelican.

I was just looking for ships at the beginning of the war when the U. S. Navy could come and go as they pleased. Later there were just to many British ships, with a fair number of 74's, blockading American ports for a campaign along the North American coast.
02-27-2013, 16:41
Diamondback

Lemme pitch in some technicals:
-HMS HUnter was a 10-gun brig, captured by Perry along with her entire squadron in the Battle of Lake Erie.
-HMS St. Lawrence is a one-of-a-kind.
-HMS Detroit was the former American armed-brig Adams.
-The HMS Caledonia I'm seeing of that time would've been a 1797-vintage-design 120-gun 1st-rate SOL launched in 1808, though there was a Great Lakes ship (3-gun brig, not a frigate) named Caledonia captured by the USN. (So yes, you had two HMS Caledonias at once.)
-HMS Endymion (40) was built as a clone of the captured French Pomone (whose own class is uncertain at this point.)
-HMS Java was a captured French Pallas-class 38-gun, a sister also saw combat in American waters as HMS Pomone.
-HMS Cyane was a Banterer-class 22-gun 6th-rate Post Ship.
-HMS Levant was a Cyrus-class 20-gun 6th-rate Post Ship. (May have been upgunned to 24, but 20 was her official rating.) Sister HMS Carron was at 1st Battle of Fort Bowyer.
-HMS Phoebe, lead ship of her class, was a 36-gun frigate.
-HMS Pelican was a Cruizer-class 20-gun brig-sloop. At least eight Cruizers saw action in American waters or against the US Navy.

Most of the Lakers were probably one-offs, and you're largely on your own
03-03-2013, 11:44
Volunteer

Wow thanks Diamondback. That is more info than I had on them. This info will give me more direction for research.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diamondback

Lemme pitch in some technicals:
-HMS HUnter was a 10-gun brig, captured by Perry along with her entire squadron in the Battle of Lake Erie.
-HMS St. Lawrence is a one-of-a-kind.
-HMS Detroit was the former American armed-brig Adams.
-The HMS Caledonia I'm seeing of that time would've been a 1797-vintage-design 120-gun 1st-rate SOL launched in 1808, though there was a Great Lakes ship (3-gun brig, not a frigate) named Caledonia captured by the USN. (So yes, you had two HMS Caledonias at once.)
-HMS Endymion (40) was built as a clone of the captured French Pomone (whose own class is uncertain at this point.)
-HMS Java was a captured French Pallas-class 38-gun, a sister also saw combat in American waters as HMS Pomone.
-HMS Cyane was a Banterer-class 22-gun 6th-rate Post Ship.
-HMS Levant was a Cyrus-class 20-gun 6th-rate Post Ship. (May have been upgunned to 24, but 20 was her official rating.) Sister HMS Carron was at 1st Battle of Fort Bowyer.
-HMS Phoebe, lead ship of her class, was a 36-gun frigate.
-HMS Pelican was a Cruizer-class 20-gun brig-sloop. At least eight Cruizers saw action in American waters or against the US Navy.

Most of the Lakers were probably one-offs, and you're largely on your own
03-03-2013, 20:15
7eat51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volunteer

Wow thanks Diamondback. That is more info than I had on them. This info will give me more direction for research.

Are you looking for anything specific? I am working through a few other books on the War of 1812, but since they are interlibrary loan, I will not have long-term access to them - though I can always take them out again. I just received a new copy of this book from another library, so I will continue looking for info as before.
04-15-2013, 23:14
Cmmdre

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diamondback

Lemme pitch in some technicals:
-HMS HUnter was a 10-gun brig, captured by Perry along with her entire squadron in the Battle of Lake Erie.
-HMS St. Lawrence is a one-of-a-kind.
-HMS Detroit was the former American armed-brig Adams.
-The HMS Caledonia I'm seeing of that time would've been a 1797-vintage-design 120-gun 1st-rate SOL launched in 1808, though there was a Great Lakes ship (3-gun brig, not a frigate) named Caledonia captured by the USN. (So yes, you had two HMS Caledonias at once.)
-HMS Endymion (40) was built as a clone of the captured French Pomone (whose own class is uncertain at this point.)
-HMS Java was a captured French Pallas-class 38-gun, a sister also saw combat in American waters as HMS Pomone.
-HMS Cyane was a Banterer-class 22-gun 6th-rate Post Ship.
-HMS Levant was a Cyrus-class 20-gun 6th-rate Post Ship. (May have been upgunned to 24, but 20 was her official rating.) Sister HMS Carron was at 1st Battle of Fort Bowyer.
-HMS Phoebe, lead ship of her class, was a 36-gun frigate.
-HMS Pelican was a Cruizer-class 20-gun brig-sloop. At least eight Cruizers saw action in American waters or against the US Navy.

Most of the Lakers were probably one-offs, and you're largely on your own

Really helpful and informative information Diamondback. Thank you for adding to this book review post.
04-16-2013, 13:42
Diamondback

Quite welcome--I'm trying to work up a table of what all classes were active combatants between the Revolutionary (both American and French), Napoleonic and 1812 Wars, and how they can be grouped into new sculpts for future SoG releases. As mentioned elsewhere, Andrea choosing the French Hebe for Wave 2 gives 1812 a HUGE jumpshot, as many of the frigates on the blockade including HMS Shannon were Leda-class, basically Hebe copies outside but reinforced to British practice inside.