Attachment 27335Attachment 27336
This is one of my brigs and a wrecked Proserpine I whipped up after the brig build.
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Attachment 27335Attachment 27336
This is one of my brigs and a wrecked Proserpine I whipped up after the brig build.
Very much like the brig. I have one on the bench as well, but I've been distracted by Wave 3. :wink:
Thanks for the post and photos.
How is a brig different to a sloop?
A brig has no mizzen mast. There is a gaff sail on the back of the main mast. I used the Proserpine's spanker for this. I also cut off the mizzen channels from the hull, and moved the main aft slightly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hjl
Very smart looking Brig Dobbs, but my heart goes out to your disabled ship.
That is a superb wreck.
Rob.
To be Strictly Accurate: Technically, a "brig" can be a "sloop"; the RN had both "brig-sloops" (two-masted designs, as described by Dobbs), and "ship-sloops" (three-masted units).Quote:
Originally Posted by Hjl
Best-known of the brig-sloops was the _Cruizer_-class: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruizer-class_brig-sloop .
For those of us here in the Pacific Northwest, this class of ship-sloop is significant: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cormor...ass_ship-sloop -- HMS _Racoon_ [sic] specifically.
Ship-sloops were IDed by the rig of the aft-most mast (the mizzen); a sloop had a fore-and-aft rig, while a corvette had a square rig.
That is all true. Within the bounds of SoG, sloop is referring to a vessel where the officer in charge is a commander, not a post captain. It has nothing to do with the masts.Quote:
Originally Posted by csadn
Are frigates always commanded by captains or did commanders command them?
Yes, I'm pretty sure that a frigate was the smallest ship a captain would be assigned to in regular circumstances. I don't think a commander could be assigned a frigate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hjl
Frigates rated a Captain, as did "post-ships" (hence the name -- it warranted a Captain's post).Quote:
Originally Posted by Hjl
And "commander" did not actually exist as an actual rank for most of the Age of Sail. Originally, it was "Master and Commander", and was a position given to Lieutenants commanding the smaller ships; eventually, it evolved into a rank of its own. (I think the evolution occurred something in the 1790s, but I'd have to look it up.)
Spot on Chris.
Prior to 1794 this rank was known as Master and Commander and was only for those commanding officers of warship with less than 24 guns, a sloop, or bomb vessels. It was simplified in 1794 to Commander. In 1827, the Royal Navy determined Commander as a rank for those who were in second-in-command of the largest warships in the Navy, a move that took some time to be popular. The rank of Lieutenant-Commander did not come into use until 1914 when the Royal Navy converted the rank of Senior Lieutenant. The rank of Lieutenant Commander is denoted by three gold stripes, with the middle stripe half as thick while the rank of Commander is denoted by three gold stripes.
Rob.
I hope this helps to answer some of the oft asked questions about the organization of the Royal Navy shipmates.
Royal Navy ranks, rates, and uniforms of the 18th and 19th centuries.
These were the original effort of the Royal Navy to create standardized rank and insignia system for use both at shore and at sea. The uniforms and insignia first created in the mid-1700s, lasting until the mid-1850s, have since become immortalized in such classic naval literature works as the Horatio Hornblower and Jack Aubrey novels.
Attachment 27564
Sir Edward Pellew, wearing a captain's dress jacket with late 18th century style epaulettes.
Prior to the 1740s, Royal Navy officers and sailors had no established uniforms, although many of the officer class typically wore upper class clothing with wigs to denote their social status. The early Royal Navy also had only three clearly established shipboard ranks: captain, lieutenant, and master. This simplicity of rank had its origins in the Middle Ages, where a military company embarked on ship (led by a captain and a lieutenant) operated independently from the handling of the vessel, which was overseen by the ship's master.
Over time, the nautical command structure merged these two separate command chains into a single entity with captain and lieutenant as commissioned officer ranks while sailing master (often shortened to simply "master") was seen as a type of warrant officer position. In 1758, the rank of midshipman was introduced, which was a type of officer candidate position. The rank of "master and commander" (completely separate from the rank of master) first appeared in the 1760s and was temporarily issued to lieutenants in command of vessels, but without a captain's commission. By the 1790s, the rank of master and commander was routinely shortened to simply "commander".
Attachment 27565
Lord Anson in 1748 regulation uniform.
Uniform regulations for naval officers were first issued by Lord Anson in 1748, this was in response to the naval officer corps wishing for an established uniform pertaining to their service. Officer uniforms were at first divided into a "best uniform", consisting of an embroidered blue coat with white facings worn unbuttoned with white breeches and stockings, as well as a "working rig" which was a simpler, less embroidered uniform for day-to-day use.
Attachment 27566
In 1767 the terms "dress" and "undress" uniform had been adopted and, by 1795, epaulettes were officially introduced. The epaulette style uniforms and insignia endured slight modifications and expansions until a final version appeared in 1846. In 1856 Royal Navy officer insignia shifted to the use of rank sleeve stripes – a pattern which has endured to the present day.
In 1775, during the American Revolutionary War, the Continental Navy was established; many ranks, rates, positions, and uniforms were duplicated nearly exactly from the British system.
Ranks and positions
Naval ranks and positions of the 18th and 19th-century Royal Navy were an intermixed assortment of formal rank titles, positional titles, as well as informal titles used on board oceangoing ships. Uniforms played a major role in shipboard hierarchy, since those positions allocated a formal uniform by navy regulations were generally considered of higher standing, even if not by rank.
Attachment 27576
Shipboard hierarchy.
In the 18th century Royal Navy, rank and position on board ship was defined by a mix of two hierarchies, an official hierarchy of ranks and a conventionally recognized social divide between gentlemen and non-gentlemen.[ Royal Navy ships were led by commissioned officers of the wardroom, which consisted of the captain, his lieutenants, as well as embarked Royal Marine officers, all of whom were officers and gentlemen. The higher ranked warrant officers on board, the Sailing Master, Purser, Surgeon and Chaplain held a warrant from the Navy Board but not an actual commission from the crown. Warrant officers had rights to mess and berth in the wardroom and were normally considered gentlemen; however, the Sailing Master was often a former sailor who had "come through the ranks" therefore might have been viewed as a social unequal. All commissioned and warrant officers wore a type of uniform, although official Navy regulations clarified an officer uniform in 1787 while it was not until 1807 that masters, along with pursers, received their own regulated uniform.
Next came the ship's three standing warrant officers, the Carpenter, Gunner and Boatswain (Bo'sun), who along with the Master were permanently assigned to a vessel for the purposes of maintenance, repair, and upkeep. Standing officers were considered the most highly skilled seaman on board, and messed and berthed with the crew. As such, they held a status separate from the other officers and were not granted the privileges of a commissioned or warrant officer if they were captured.
"Cockpit mate" was a colloquial term for petty officers who were considered gentlemen and officers under instruction and messed and berthed apart from the ordinary sailors in the Cockpit. This included both midshipman, who were considered gentlemen and officers under instruction, and master's mates, who derived their status from their role as apprentices to the sailing master. A midshipman outranked most other petty officers and lesser warrant officers, such as the Master-at-arms. Boys aspiring for a commission were often called young gentlemen instead of their substantive rating to distinguish their higher social standing from the ordinary sailors.Occasionally, a midshipman would be posted aboard a ship in a lower rating such as able seaman but would eat and sleep with his social equals in the cockpit (all Midshipman would be 'rated able' at some point in their service – it was a requirement for them to have been so before they could stand as a Mate, another requirement for promotion to Lieutenant).
The remainder of the ship's company, who lived and berthed in the common crew quarters, were the petty officers and seamen. Petty officers were seamen who had been "rated" to fill a particular specialist trade on board ship. This rating set the petty officers apart from the common seaman by virtue of technical skill and slightly higher education. No special uniform was allocated for petty officers, although some Royal Navy ships allowed such persons to don a simple blue frock coat to denote their status.
Seaman were further divided into two grades, these being ordinary seaman and able seaman. Seaman were normally assigned to a watch, which maintained its own hierarchy consisting of a watch captain in charge of a particular area of the ship. Grouped amongst the watches were also the landsmen, considered the absolute lowest rank in the Royal Navy and assigned to personnel, usually from press gangs, who held little to no naval experience. A final position on board ship was that of ship's boy, sometimes referred to as cabin boy. Normally between the ages of 8 to 12, ship's boys performed a variety of functions such as servants to officers, mess attendants, or as a powder monkey {officers' servants were usually 'young gentlemen' joining a ship at say 12 or 13, preparatory to becoming midshipmen; their prior service as a servant to an officer would be included in the Midshipman's recorded sea-service on going before the Lieutenants' Commission Board}.
Position Status Appointing Agency Messing & berthing Uniform Notes Commodore Commissioned officer Admiralty Great Cabin Blue frock coat
with gold laced buttons.[N 2]Special grade for captains in charge of multiple vessels[N 3] Captain Vessel commanding officer Commander Blue frock coat
white waist coat.[N 4]Non-rated ship captain.
Full title "master and commander"Lieutenant Wardroom Division officer/watch officer Acting lieutenant Warrant officer Ship's captain No established uniform – recipients would wear the uniform of the last grade held Later known as sub-lieutenant[N 5] Master Navy Board Blue frock coat with
gold Navy buttonsHighest ranked warrant officer
on boardPurser Victualling Board Ship's accountant, responsible for supplies Surgeon Sick and Hurt Board Ship's medical officer Chaplain Church of England Only present on larger vessels Midshipman Cockpit officer Various methods for appointment Cockpit Blue frock coat,
white button collar patchOfficer candidate position Midshipman's mate Cockpit mate Blue frock coat
with white trimSpecial grade reserved for master's mates who had passed the examination for lieutenant Master's mate Could also be rated as "second master" Surgeon's mate Sick and Hurt Board[N 6] Ship's medic on smaller vessels Captain's Clerk Civilian Typically hired by captain Civilian clothing Clerical duties on board ship School teacher Only present on larger ships. Primary duty to instruct midshipmen in academic matters Steward Crew's messing
and berthingA more senior cook and servant, usually reserved for flagships and larger vessels Cook Normally an older retired or injured seaman Gunner Standing officer Shipboard appointment by captain Blue frock coat
with Navy buttonsIn charge of all ship's armaments Boatswain Most experienced deck seaman aboard Carpenter Shipboard issued
crew clothingHead of the carpenter's team Armourer Petty officer Senior petty officers Ropemaker Caulker Master-at-arms Sailmaker Mid-grade petty officer Yeoman Two on board:
Yeoman of the sheets & yeoman of the powder roomCoxswain Deck hand specialist petty officer Quartermaster Helmsman on board the ship
serving watch at the ship's wheelCooper Worked directly for the ship's purser Ship's corporal Assistant to the master-at-arms Watch captains Experienced seaman
in charge of a watch teamArmourer's mate Junior petty officer Gunner's mate Boatswain's mate Caulker's mate Carpenter's mate Sailmaker's mate Quartermaster's mate Gunsmith Seaman Seaman specialists Quarter gunner Carpenter's crew Able seaman Seaman with more
than three years experienceOrdinary seaman Seaman with at least one year experience Landsman Seaman with less than one year experience Boy Servant Lowest possible position on board,
normally held by boys 12 years or younger.
Promotion and advancement.
Attachment 27574
Illustrated commission path for a Royal Navy lieutenant.
Attachment 27575
Promotion path of British flag officers.
Promotion and advancement within the 18th and 19th century Royal Navy varied depending on the status of the sailor in question. At the lower levels, most inexperienced sailors began in the rank of landsman – those joining ships at a very young age were typically entered in the navy as cabin boys or officers' servants.
After a year at sea, landsmen were normally advanced to ordinary seaman. Three more years, with appropriate ability displayed, would see a sailor advanced to able seaman. For the "common seaman", this level is normally where the career path ended and many sailors spent their entire Royal Navy careers as able seaman on various vessels.
Advancement into the petty officer positions required some level of technical skill. Petty officer appointments were typically made by a ship's captain – sailors could also be "rated on the books" as a petty officer when a ship was in port searching for a crew. Honesty was implied, as a sailor falsely claiming experience in order to rate a billet on board ship would be quickly discovered once at sea.
Senior petty officers could also be rated as a standing officer, of which only three such positions normally existed (boatswain, carpenter, and gunner). Standing officers remained with a vessel during lay-up and maintenance, and also were known to be highly valued due to their skill and experience.
Warrant officers were given their positions by various certification boards and had nearly the same rights and respect as commissioned officers, including access to the quarterdeck and wardroom. Advancement into the commissioned officer grades required a royal appointment, following a certification by the lieutenant's examination board. Board eligibility was most often achieved by serving as a midshipman, although the career path of a master or master's mate also permitted this opportunity.
Once commissioned, lieutenants would be rated on board based on seniority, such as "1st lieutenant", "2nd lieutenant", "3rd lieutenant", etc. with the 1st lieutenant filling the modern day role of executive officer and second-in-command. Lieutenants, like ordinary sailors, were required to be signed on to various vessels due to manpower needs. If a lieutenant could not find a billet, the officer was said to be on "half pay" until a sea billet could be obtained.
The title of commander was originally. a temporary position for lieutenants placed in charge of smaller vessels. Successful commanders (who were known by courtesy on board their own ship's as "captain") could aspire for promotion to captain which was known as "making post". Such post captains were then assigned to rated vessels in the rating system of the Royal Navy. Once a captain, advancement to admiral was strictly determined by seniority – if a captain served long enough for more senior officers to retire, resign, or die, he would eventually become an admiral. One distinguishing element amongst captain was, however, determined by the rating of the vessel they commanded. The captain of a sixth rate, for instance, was generally junior to a captain of a first rate.
Watch organization.
Royal navy vessels operated on a number of parallel hierarchies in addition to formal ranks and positions, paramount of which was the vessel's watch organization. Watches were stood 24 hours a day and divided into "watch sections" each of which was led by an "officer of the watch", typically a lieutenant, midshipman, or master's mate (the captain and master did not stand watch but were on call 24 hours a day)
The heart of the watch were the watch teams, each led by a petty officer known as a captain (separate entirely from the vessel's commanding officer). There were six watch teams on most Royal Navy vessels, divided into three "deck" teams and three "aloft" teams. The aloft teams were manned by sailors known as "topmen" and were considered the most experienced men aboard. In all, the six watch teams were as follows:
Aloft: Fore topman, main topmen, mizzen topmen
Deck: Forecastle men, waisters, afterguard
The navigation and steering of the vessel from the quarterdeck was handled by a special watch team of quartermasters. Furthermore, the ship's boatswain and his mates were interspersed amongst the various watch teams to ensure good order and discipline. The remainder of the ships' company, who did not stand a regular watch, included the ship's carpenter's crew and the gunnery teams (in charge of the maintenance of the ship's guns). Any other person on board who did not stand watch was collective referred to as an "idler" but was still subject to muster when the "all hands on deck" was called by the boatswain.
Quarters and stations.
In addition to the standard watch organization of a Royal Navy vessel, additional organizational hierarchies included the division, headed by a lieutenant or midshipman, mainly for the purposes of mustering as well as messing and berthing; divisions were typically present only on the larger rated vessels.
The term "Action Stations" was a battle condition in which a Royal Navy vessel manned all of its guns with gun crews, stood up damage control and emergency medical teams, and called the ship's senior officers to the quarterdeck in order to direct the ship in battle. A sailor's action station was independent of their watch station or division, although in many cases groups of sailors manning the same action station were assigned from the same division or watch section.
A unique readiness condition of some Royal Navy vessels was known as "in ordinary". Such vessels were usually permanently moored with masts and sails removed, and manned only by a skeleton crew. In ordinary vessels did not maintain full watch sections and were normally maintained as receiving ships, shore barges, or prison ships.
Chronology of uniforms.
Attachment 27567
Royal Navy shoulder insignia
Attachment 27566
Royal Navy admiral insignia. The rank of "fleet admiral" was known in its full form as "admiral of the fleet".
1748–67.
Attachment 27568
The first uniforms of the Royal Navy were issued to commissioned officers only and consisted of a blue uniform coat, normally worn with breeches and white stockings. In the early days of such uniforms, some officers also wore wigs, but this practice appears to quickly disappeared due to the impracticality of wearing wigs at sea. By the 1750s, the important warrant rank of master had been issued a standard uniform as had the rank of midshipman. The higher ranked petty officers, such as the boatswain and gunner had been allocated blue uniforms as well.
The standard means of determining rank in these early days of Royal Navy uniforms was the arrangement of buttons and well as gold facing on the buttons and cuffbands. As a general rule, the more buttons and gold facing a person wore, the higher was their rank and position.
Attachment 27569
1767–95.
The next major change in Royal Navy uniforms occurred in the 1760s when naval lieutenants were designated special uniforms consisting of an open faced blue jacket with white waistcoats. Captains wore a similar jacket, yet often closed with gold laced buttons. By the 1770s, most warrant and standing petty officers had been issued some type of uniform as well. Enlisted sailors had no established uniform, but were often issued standardized clothing by the ship on which they served to create a uniform appearance amongst seaman.
Attachment 27570Attachment 27571
1795–1856
The most significant uniform regulation of the late 1700s was the creation of navy officer epaulettes. Over the next fifty years, epaulettes were the primary means of determining officer rank insignia, while the remainder of the warrant officers and petty officers wore various blue coats with piping and buttons to determine their various positions.
Sleeve stripes were introduced into the Royal Navy in 1856, thus ending the era of the shoulder epaulettes as the primary means of insignia.
Attachment 27573
Captain 1795
Attachment 27572
Admiral 1795.
Flag officers.
Flag rank advancement in the 18th and 19th century Royal Navy was determined entirely by seniority. Initial promotion to flag rank from the rank of captain occurred when a vacancy appeared on the admirals' seniority list due to the death or retirement of a flag officer. The captain in question would then be automatically promoted to rear admiral and assigned to the first of three colored squadrons, these being the blue, white and red squadrons.
As further vacancies occurred, the British flag officer would be posted to the same rank in higher squadrons. For instance, a rear admiral of the blue squadron would be promoted to become rear admiral of the white, and then rear admiral of the red squadron. When reaching the highest position of the rank (rear admiral of the red), the flag officer would next be promoted to the rank of vice admiral, and begin again at the lowest coloured squadron (vice admiral of the blue). The process would continue again, until the vice admiral of the red was promoted to admiral of the blue. The highest possible rank was admiral of the red squadron, which was synonymous with admiral of the fleet (originally this rank wore the same insignia as a regular admiral – a special insignia was first created in 1843).
Situations did occur where flag officers would "jump" to a higher rank in a different squadron, without serving their time in each rank of each squadron. Such was the case with William Bligh, who was promoted directly from rear admiral to vice admiral of the blue without ever having served as a rear admiral of the red or white Squadron.
http://sailsofglory.org/image.php?u=...ine=1322673788
On the opposite, it was not possible for a higher ranked admiral in a lower squadron (i.e. vice admiral of the blue) to be demoted to a lower rank yet in a higher rated squadron (i.e. rear admiral of the red).
Some flag officers were not assigned to a squadron, and thus were referred to simply by the generic title "admiral". Formally known as "admiral without distinction of a squadron", the common term for such officers was "yellow admiral". Still another title was port admiral which was the title for the senior naval officer of a British port.
Rob.
Wow, thanks Bligh. That was very informative
Now that was a post chock full of information. It does make me glad I'm not sailing for the British however. I don't think I could keep it all straight?
Great article, Rob, but this part:
You can easily see that it's the admiral Pellew on the laced buttonholes and the gray hair. But you may comment that he became an admiral when cut away jackets were the thing and that could be said but admirals kept the sweeping front longer.Quote:
Attachment 27564
Sir Edward Pellew, wearing a captain's dress jacket with late 18th century style epaulettes.
You are right on Jonas, and that was something I should have picked up on from whoever captioned the original picture that I used.
Rob.
I believe that captain's dress coat you pictured (1795) belonged to Hood when he was a captain. It's from National Maritime Museum and was the coat I tried to copy when I made mine. The admiral's coat is Nelson's undress he wore at Trafalgar. That's why the left eppaulette is damaged. It's also from NMM.
I was aware of the Nelson coat, but not Hoods so thanks for that extra bit of gilt on the Gingerbread.
You are rapidly stocking up enough Kudos for some more Rep with all these bits of information.
Thanks again.
My Captain's coat is still in the raw, with Mrs B asking where we can get a pattern for it.:girlieangry:
None of my friends who do Naval re-enactment seem to be forthcoming on this one.
Rob.
Attachment 27606
This is the pattern contemporary tailors got.
It's from Dressed to Kill; British Naval Uniform, Masculinity and Contemporary Fashions 1748-1857
Thank you very much chaps.
I'm sure that will give her something to work from.
Rob.
Swedish king Gustav III decided that Sweden should have a uniform that was more or less universal and designed "Svenska dräkten" or "Nationella dräkten".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationella_dr%C3%A4kten The Naval uniform was a variation on that.
This is a Swedish Captain of 1780-90ish.
Attachment 27639
Photo by me.
That is Smart.
The hat reminds me of the one worn by if I remember correctly after 40 years Bavarian troops. Sven will no doubt put me right.
I always liked that.
Rob.