I had not even considered that each arc would consume a crew action DB.:happy:
Rob.
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Idea for how to handle wounded crew:
Crew Card: Specialist Crew - Ship's Surgeon. Each turn after the fourth, you may spend a Crew Action to draw one Musketry chit. If the drawn chit is a blank, return one Crew Damage marker to the bag; if the draw is a Crew Hit the damage stays as it was before draw. Return the drawn chit to the bag. You may only remove two Crew Casualties per game with this ability.
New action: Triage Wounded. You may spend a Crew Action (as per Surgeon.) You may only remove one Crew Casualty per game with this ability.
(I'm envisioning a series of Specialist crew cards, who like captains can only be assigned one per ship.)
I can perfectly see this working for frigate actions, in fact there are several sets out there for small actions where crew management is a key element. For fleet actions I really don't see it as being something that the players should be worrying about, the game system should effectively "manage" the crew whilst the players concentrate on what their historical counterparts should be doing - fighting the battle. I suppose you could cover it at a high level using a "command aim" approach (similar to how navies actually do prioritise activities on board). For example, there are three broad aims, "float, move and fight" - so you could assign the command priority for each ship through ordering those elements (normally "fight" first - load and fire guns, board, etc.), "move" when crew needed to head into the rigging to change sail, tack etc. and "float" - when damage control is the priority. Something like 4 actions available means you can cover all aims, 2 or 3 means you can do two, one means one only. Still gives you some degree of crew management but without the minutiae that will slow down a large action.
Fair point, DM. Still have the "terminal ballistics" of how to represent the added stresses and strains of fighting both sides of a ship at once on the table at the root of that discussion, though--any ideas on how to represent "crew stretched thin"? Maybe when firing both broadsides they take a few chits' penalty to each attack, representing the slower fire of undermanned guns? (IIRC, the usual was enough crew to fully man one side but at most only partially the other, though I could be mistaken.)
For a large action I'd probably go for full effect from one broadside, half effect from a second (or possibly half on both sides to keep it simple). I know wargamers love to delve into details, but you need to remember the role that the players are taking in the game. Its the captain's job to worry about how his ship fits into the battle and what he needs to do to achieve that, then he needs to tell his subordinates what he wants them to do - and then let them get on with it. So it is the first lieutenant and co who translate this into orders, crew direction etc. If the captain of a SOL is doing that he's lost situational awareness of the battle. If you are taking the roles of admirals then the abstraction should be even higher (don't worry about choosing ammunition, "fire on the uproll", put out that fire etc, etc. those are decisions going on within your ships, following your navy's doctrine and you should be well out of that sort of "long screwdriver" management.
I have actually played in a few very large games where crew management within each ship was an aspect of the game - but in that case there was a player for EVERY ship of the line and frigate, as well as flag officers "embarked" in players' ships. The successful fleets were the ones where the captains and admirals remembered their roles and stuck to them; admirals who worried unduly about what things their flag captain should have been doing quickly lost control of the battle.
How does this sound
French and Spanish ships will not move until a British ship moves to within short range, the Allied ship will then be able to plan as normal the following move, but will move to engage a ship engaging it.
All allied firing will use the untried gunners rule when a British ship comes within long range then will use the standard one turn reload when they are specifically engaged by a British ship.
An Allied ship must open fire initially as soon as a British ship comes within range
British ships can use the continuous fire rule once within range but must state they are using this during the planning stage. ( A chit or some such to be used to signify)
Never tried the continuous fire rule Chris so it is hard for me to comment on this aspect. I will leave that to you chaps to sort out.
Rob.
Assembling the fleets
Here is the start of the fleets, I will add the individual ships to the OB in the first few posts.
For now
The French fleet , named ships rigged and ready
https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...3&d=1517836575
The Spanish Fleet
https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...4&d=1517836592
Looking good thus far Chris.
On another matter do you have any spare Slop boxes. I put out an APB recently but got no takers.
Rob.
Hi Rob,
I should have, will check out and let you know, which sloop box you after?
three more Franco Spanish to come, they need finishing off, later this week Ill get the RN ships done
Just went and viewed those ships in your album Chris.
They look mighty fine sir.:clap:
Rob.
The Royal Navy responds
https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...2&d=1518012330
Now that is getting serious Chris.:clap:
I'm going to need to re photograph my Navies to show them up to date.
Rob.
Very impressive. :beer:
Added my last French ship, only need two more then have all for Trafalgar
French 80 gun Neptune
https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...0&d=1518439496
I can only bow to you in admiration for your perseverance against all the trials and tribulations of assembling these Fleets. I am looking forward to playing in the action at Doncaster.
rob.
More for the fleets
Rayo
https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...0&d=1521394388
San Juan Nepomuceno
https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...3&d=1521394445
HMS Revenge
https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...2&d=1521394429
Formidable
https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...1&d=1521394409
The fleets are now well established, named ships I am missing the following
British Fleet
Leviathan 2-decker 74 (based on French Courageux)
Conqueror 2-decker 74
Minotaur 2-decker 74 (based on French Courageux)
Colossus 2-decker 74 (based on French Courageux)
Swiftsure 2-decker 74
French Fleet
Indomptable 2-decker 80 Non Official SGN115c
Spanish Fleet
Nuestra Señora de la Santísima Trinidad 4-decker until official model possibly use an Ocean class
Argonauta 2-decker 80
Neptuno 2-decker 80
Monarca 2-decker 80
Montañés 2-decker 80
San Leandro 2-decker 64
San Justo 2-decker 74 Non official SGN112a THis one currently being rigged so will be joining the fleet soon
I am curently looking into what already released ships can be used for the missing, For the Spanish Montanes class I am possibly going to see if I can get some Stern castles from Langton for this class and replace them onto some Temeraires or Elizabeths, I am looking at my source books to see which is best fit.
The French are only missing one now which I will see about obtaining as and when I can.
British same as Montanes class checking into which is best fit.
The only real issue is the Spanish 64 as we got nothing in this size Spanish wise so may have to steal one from the British or French. we will see
So when (and where) are we doing this? :happy:
Santissima should be much shorter than Ocean.
Theoretically you should be able to add another deck on any Meregildos.
Been looking at a replacement for the Spanish 64 San Leandro
Using Perter Goodwins Ships of Trafalgar San Leandro is gun deck 53.55 m keel 48m width 14.5 m so in scale
Gundeck 53.5mm
Keel 48mm
Widest 14.5 mm
Closest match SGN 109a
Gundeck 50mm
Keel 49mm
Widest 13mm
So unless anyone got a better idea, I think all that is needed is possibly a new stern from Langtons.
Open to suggestions chaps
Interesting fact: Langton's Spanish stern gallery to first rates are too big for the Sails ships.
I wonder why that is considering the scale difference between the ships in the two ranges?
DB help us in our hour of need!
Rob.
My last Spanish ship ready
San Justo 74
https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...9&d=1522332568
Yet another fine looking ship Chris.
Well done that man.
Rob.
Thanks Rob, though just noticed missed a bit of rigging which I will restore today
The new Santisima build
https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...9&d=1524060707
Also been looking into the Spanish 64 San Leandro, according to Peter Goodwin The Ships of Trafalgar, the San Leandro was built to the samelines as the Bahama, looking at the stats Bahama Length of gundeck 53.55mm widest part 14.48, exactly the same as San Leandro. so if we prepared to accept Bahama we can get another one and we have San Leandro, just need to update the stats as its a 64 gun ship
That is a superb bit of news Chris.
I will get onto that straight away before the lads buy them all up.
Rob.
I have been looking into replacements for a few ships for this project.
We are all aware of the descrepancy that has crept into the size of the ships, especially the last wave and the Spanish ships.
Therefore I am going to, for my part, use the following due to not knowing what or even if a wave 5 is forthcoming, also personal circumstances may preculde me from partaking in any new release.
Anyway,
I have used The Ships of Trafalgar and British Warships in the age of sail, plus Threedecks as references.
The following is an alternate model for the ships snd is not yet taking into account any change in stats which will be needed
The following two are models slready released
Spartiate. L182’. W49’
Belleraphon L168’ W47’
So we can use the Spartiate model as the following as we are talking a a couple of mm in our scale
Colossus L 180’ W 49’
Conqueror L 176’ W49’
At a push
Leviathan L172’ W48’
Minataur L172’ W48’
Swiftsure L173’ W47’
If you can get one the Belleraphon can be used for below as only 1mm difference or the above at a push.
Thunderer. L 170’ W47’
So I will need another 2 temeraires, possibly 5.
For the Spanish, well the current models are too small in comparison, but as they are the only ones we got we can use the Bahama model for the 4 montanes class and change the stats
Bahama L53m W14m
Montanes L54m W14m so within 1mm and rest of class similar so although not correct we can use until replacements made ( sorry momentary lapse there).
So its up to you if you want to substitute
The Belleraphon is the same model as all British 74, Elizabeth-class etc.
Useful information Chris.
I am now within having or on the way all but two of the British ships.
Rob.
Yes, but you don't need to get one as HMS Bellona is the same model. If you want to make a repaint why choose the rare expensive version of the same model as for example HMS Superb and HMS Goliath?
I see your point Jonas, was just using the Belleraphon as an example for the length and width as it was at Trafalgar, so yes any Bellona model will do, apologies for any confusion.
Two more to be added to the fleets
The French Indomptable
https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...8&d=1530548974
The Spanish San Leandro 64, there is a seperate thread for the stats I am using as well as the ship log, insert etc
https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachm...9&d=1530548991
I am now missing the four Spanish Montanes class 80gun SOL and a half dozen British ships.
For these I am going to use 4 x Bahama's for the Montanes
For the Brits 5 x Temeraires and 1 Elizabeth class, that is if I can find any at a reasonable price.