1812 campaign..no not that one the other one

Ok I can see that the War of 1812 or War of Independence (Revisited) or whatever you guys want to call it seems to generate a little heat in the debates. Personally, having a euro-centric interest in the period the naval stuff going on at the western end of the pond was just some little skirmish...

Anyway, I'm looking for some information (yes my library does have some failings) on naval actions/movements linked to the REAL 1812 campaign, the Russian one. I've read a lot of texts on the invasion, the retreat etc, but I cant recall a single reference to events on the Baltic which was effectively McDonalds left flank as he advanced to besiege Riga. Surely the French and Russians were doing something along the coast?

There are reports of re-supply along the rivers to the Grande Armee but any naval aspects of the invasion (and there must have been some) are wholly ignored in any account I've read probably because of the magnitude of events on land and the catastrophic outcome for the grande Armee.

So let's see how deep the knowledge base runs here.....:D:D:D

From an RN perspective the Baltic campaign from 1807-1812 was almost a "secret" war - whilst of vital importance in terms of keeping trade routes open, and featuring some of the most famous names in the RN at the time (Admiral Saumarez and HMS Victory to name but two). In true RN style much of the "action" involved blockading the Russian fleet in port, and a great deal of political intrigue and diplomacy (Saumarez, commanding the British fleet there, recognised that Russian and later Swedish belligerence towards Britain, being essentially forced by France, ran only skin deep and so his campaign was run with the intention of keeping Russia and Sweden as "onside" as possible - I guess it must have worked as he was honoured by Charles XIII of Sweden for his troubles).

For a good reference try "Admiral Saumarez Versus Napoleon: The Baltic, 1807-1812", by Tim Voelcker. I've not managed to get hold of a copy yet but several of my chums across the pond have copies and reckon it is well worth getting hold of.

I think one of the key things that one appreciates when looking into this theatre of operations is that the naval side was largely a British/Russian/Swedish affair (with a weather eye kept on Denmark), with the French navy little engaged, if at all. which I guess isn't that surprising since French policy was largely to have one's allies (whether voluntarily or through "persuasion") look after their own areas of water. So the fight against Britain was led by the swedes and the Russians. I guess there was little need to put a significant French naval presence into the Baltic in 1812 since , standfast the opening (and I guess closing) elements of the march of the Grand Armee from and to Konigsberg and the action around Riga (which was essentially a sideshow), the "main action" was taking place at least a hundred miles from shore.

For a fictional interpretation, don't forget Hornblower was also active in the Baltic at this time :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Berthier

Ok I can see that the War of 1812 or War of Independence (Revisited) or whatever you guys want to call it seems to generate a little heat in the debates. Personally, having a euro-centric interest in the period the naval stuff going on at the western end of the pond was just some little skirmish...

---

"It's not the *size* of the army which counts -- it's how you *use* it!" >;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Berthier

Anyway, I'm looking for some information (yes my library does have some failings) on naval actions/movements linked to the REAL 1812 campaign, the Russian one. I've read a lot of texts on the invasion, the retreat etc, but I cant recall a single reference to events on the Baltic which was effectively McDonalds left flank as he advanced to besiege Riga. Surely the French and Russians were doing something along the coast?

---

As Mr. Manley said: No, not really -- by this point, Britain was in near-as-makes-no-odds total control of the seas, to include all the "relevant" (read: Not Iced Over All The Time) bits of the Russian coast. Elsewhere, someone has posted a list of major naval actions during the period[*]; note there is a sharp tapering-off of same after about 1808 -- one of the reasons for the "Continental System"[**] was Napoleon's inability to control sea trade on the water; so he tried to control it by precluding British ships trading with anyone.

[*: http://www.sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?31-Battles , post 17]
[**: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_System ]

And don't call us Surely. >;)

Quote:

---

the naval stuff going on at the western end of the pond was just some little skirmish...

---

It reminds me a bit of one of Bison's lines in that amazingly awful (yet somehow compelling) movie "Streetfighter"

"For you, the day Bison graced your village was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday."

I must admit I didn't see it that way myself until I was visiting Fort McHenry with some USN friends a few years back and we were getting a brief on the "rockets red glare" and the writing of the national anthem. All very stirring stuff, but as one of my friends said "for us this was a defining moment in our history, but for you guys it was just another raid". It happened that we'd seen that amazing piece of cinematic genius** (sic) the night before and the line sprung several minds. I think the next few years are going to be quite interesting what with all the bicentennial events that are going on and such. Different perspectives, different opinions, "defining moments", "sideshows", and none of those right or wrong. One things for sure, my Canadian friends are going to be insufferable :)

** of course it did have Kylie in it so it wasn't all bad :D

Not often you see a post with the words bison, streetfighter, sideshow and kylie used together. There's probably a game show they could make with that format ;)

Attachment 587

Whats not to like? :D

That must be the new age boarding equipment:cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by David Manley

Attachment 587

Whats not to like? :D

---

Camouflage spandex, for one. Blue and orange on the same palette, for another. Vulcan eyebrows, for a third.

I'll take the ladies in the "Scurvy Crew" thread, thank you very much.... >;)