I found that effect and that's one of the reasons I don't use it. It's just too good. I think it's a little bit like cheating.
I found that effect and that's one of the reasons I don't use it. It's just too good. I think it's a little bit like cheating.
I like both the Carronades rule, and the Continuous Fire - from a historical standpoint, although it probably is overpowered when not playing advanced rules.
Perhaps rather than just having to issue a fire action for continuous fire, you might have to issue both a fire and reload action? That would quickly make it difficult to sustain on damaged ships when the crews are otherwise occupied. (I acknowledge gun crews didn't generally look after ship repairs, etc).
It's overpowered in every version of the rules.
In your opinion how do you view Carronades and their ability to fire each turn Texas?
Essentially in the same way? Or okay because of the range penalty?
It's a little better. From memory I think it was a little complicated to calculate ob the fly though.
My main complain with the carronade rule is the extremes that make for strange effect. An all carronade ship would make for strange numbers.
That's true.
All carronade did exist of course, to devastating effect, but were very uncommon in the era so that's a plus.
The sloop Galvarino which I will be using for the Chilean campaign was an all Carronade ship with sixteen 32lbr Carronades and just two 6lb bow chasers. Consequently I am finding this very interesting.
Rob.
Played a two on two scenario using Carronades rule for the British and standard gunnery for the Spanish today.
I noted that they were mostly effective in the chase due to the wider firing arc but at other times the half range (and half carronades rounding up on firepower) really cut down on effectiveness.
In essence I found it better to simply reload the cannons with double ball, manoeuvre and then only fire at half range with my main guns too.
I don't feel that it is something that I would want to have more than one or two vessels sporting in a fleet though.
I'm going to try continuous fire in another game at the weekend and see how that plays out.
P.S. This is my first game against Spaniards - they seem far more effective at their rates. Also, I now know that 5th rates should steer as far clear from 1st rates as possible. The first broadside completely wrecked my British frigate turning her into matchsticks and I barely scratched the side of them in return.
The generally accepted rule for Frigates by most civilized nations was to leave them unmolested unless they were attempting to influence the line of battle by raking liners sterns or towing off prizes. Usually it would be left to the Fleets own Frigates to see off any enemy ones.
However, i did have a very successful game where two Frigates captured a 74 escorting a merchantman. Just a couple of early rakes and some lucky draws brought the liner down to the same status as the Frigates vs firepower and crew numbers. Then it became a battle of attrition.
Rob.
Interesting. I didn't know that. Clearly the Spanish captain didn't either!
The Spanish ships have very high fire power ratings without any real explanation. I wouldn't use a battle against them as a measure.
Maybe we should see enlightenment from Andrea upon this subject Jonas!
Rob.
Thankfully I didn't have the Spaniards using carronades, only the English.Quote:
Originally Posted by TexaS
I was still stunned by the firepower of an initial broadside from a 1st rate though. It's the first time I've had one on the table and they're devastating (as they should be).
I was always under the impression (perhaps incorrectly) that Spanish ships were better in gunnery, or simply had a higher weight of metal than their French or English counterparts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bligh
Only the British had true Carronades Andrew. The Obusier I believe that was what the French called it was admitted to be a poor replica even by them and did not figure largely in French or Spanish ships.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewG73
Attachment 34363
Rob.
I agree Rob. I was just making sure that Jonas understood that I didn't have both English and Spanish using carronades seeing as he mentioned it being not necessarily an appropriate comparison.
Right Andy.
With the Spanish overgunned. I think it very good employment to play your Carronades upon them.
Rob.
The Spanish first rates stats are over gunned compared to British and French first rates regardless if you compare broadside weight or number of guns, even if compensating for most effective caliber. When talking of effective gunnery the British almost always came out on top, both in precision and reloading speed. There's simply no explanation I know of.
Undersized ships with big ideas then Jonas.:wink:
Rob.
Gunnery skill shouldn't work into the ship's stats. That's what the poor gunnery adjustments is for in the rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by TexaS
I just noticed last evening that the Spanish 1st rates have THE worst sailing angles out of all of the 1st rates. The French are comparable to the British and French 74's, and the British 1sts are in-between.
Thats right, there was a definite drive during playtesting to base ship stats on the ship itself and to not factor crew quality in at all. And i agree, some of the later statting does seem a bit "random"
Maybe for the Spanish ships a mandatory Gunners Lacking training so they take two turns to load, or a house rule that they take two turns to load a full broadside but standard one turn to load a front or rear battery, this will cut down the effectiveness and add a little authenticity?
I think that the gunners lacking training is a good idea Chris. Keeps things within the realms of the rules.
Rob.
Yes it would help, but that first devastating broadside still will make any Nelson heroics with 74s near impossible.
I only mentioned gunner skill as it had been mentioned and it wouldn't work as an explanation either.
The only other thing is to doctor the ship mats then.
I am getting better at this with a bit of cut and paste.
Attachment 34387
Reinforced Brig Sloop to take 16 32 lbr Carronades.
Rob.
So we dont give them the first fire bonus and no double shot until first broadside fired , or Spanish and possibly French ships must fire first broadside at rigging, as they did historically I believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by TexaS
But these will be house rules
All sounds good to me Chris. Whatever floats/ sinks your boat.
Rob.