I have just stuck mine outside Dobbs.
Rob.
Printable View
I have just stuck mine outside Dobbs.
Rob.
My problem with leaving them outside for curing is that my cats may take an interest giving true meaning to curiosity killed the cat! In between the natural curing and a cheap nail polish lamp I can forego the $$ for a wash and cure station - they can be close to the price of the printer itself!!
Even in a cloudy sky with the odd sunny periods they were done in a couple of hours.
Rob.
Attachment 53781
I'm curious, weren't Canada's and Ganges' about the same size historically? That the Canada on the left.
Ganges should be 6" shorter LGD and almost a foot beamier, about 75 tons heavier. That pic looks almost like you have a 1/1000 Ganges and a 1/1200 Canada. Looks like the Ares Scale Curse has spread to Henry... :(
According to Winfield.
Canada as exemplified by the "Captain" was 170ft x 140ft.5in and 46ft 7in with a bm of 1632.
Ganges had a length of 169ft 6in x 138ft 7 and 3/4in and 47ft 4in with a bm of 1656.
Rob.
Glad to hear everything arrived!
That goo is uncured resin that has failed to be cleaned off. To clarify, after printing every model got washed for 5 minutes in alcohol before being run through an ultrasonic cleaner twice. I then went over each one by hand, using an old paintbrush to apply alcohol and remove excess resin clogging up details. I then ran each ship under a tap. Unfortuantely, though, the bottoms of the ships being covered by their rafts/supports meant that they weren't as easily "got to." You can either wash it off with 90%+ alcohol or just cure the undersides under a UV light (natural or artificial) for 10~ minutes. I'd go for the latter since it's not like the undersides of the ships are going to be visible, so a bit of cured resin residue won't be an issue.
I use a more expensive resin that isn't as bad as what you hear about in the real horror stories but, yes, it *will* irritate your skin if you rub it on there and leave it. But with a residue like what's on these ships, just wash your hands thoroughly after touching it and don't touch your eyes. The worst part is just how sticky it makes things.
Yes I really owe you all an apology, sorry, it was negligent of me to not think to give a bit of a warning about the risk of uncured resin. Again, though, while not totally safe I can at least say the stuff I use (https://www.amazon.co.uk/NOVA3D-Curi...ct_top?ie=UTF8) isn't the worst.
You'll want superglue, just like with traditional resin models, plastic glues aren't going to cut it.
I wear surgical gloves when doing the print removals/first clean, but I've been handling them with my bare hands after that - but I suppose I wasn't directly touching the undersides of the bases!
Yeah natural UV light from the sun does just fine! I use a nail curing lamp just to make sure everything gets an even spread, but if you've got someone rotating the models around at regular intervals, you should get an even cure.
Not necessarily! If memory serves, my nail curing lamp was something like £8, and my Ultrasonic Cleaner was maybe £15? All cheap Chinese stuff, of course, but it does the job. Ironically the cleaner does itself need a deep clean, though.
I'm sorry, that seems to be a legitimate mistake :/
I size the ships by breadth, rather than length, as I find the varied ways of measuring lengths (by keel, by gundeck) inconsistent and confusing. Of course, the issue with sizing the model by breadth is that you have to account for the fact that the hull planking isn't visible on ship plans. That's led to a few mistakes on my earlier ships. I'd like to think I've got better with practice, but I have to confess that the Canada model's base hull was sculpted perhaps 10 months ago and could well therefore have not been modelled in the same way as the rest of the range. And of course even when everything goes swimmingly, I still often find stuff ends up being 1-2mm~ off.
Here are the exact measurements according to my STL files (note these are based on the longest/widest points of the model as show in the 3D preview, so length would be the tip of the bow back to the top of the lanterns, potentially, while the breadth will be measured from the furthest protruding points such as cannons or catsheads; whatever stretches out further on the axis):
Attachment 53784
Do those match your models there, Dobbs? Just want to make sure I haven't compounded the cock-up by sending you a 1/1200 model. There being a 4 metre difference (at 1:1) in the length of both ships does suggest there's something wrong there, though. At the least I'll provide the STL file for whichever ship is most out. If I have sent you a 1/1200 Canada, I'll send you out a 1/1000 one.
EDIT: Realised the image had the ships' positions within the 3D environment, rather than their dimensions, updated the image now.
Addendum: Not sure how intuitive this is, but here are both ships lined up with the front railings of their forecastles being exactly parallel, I've drawn two planes; one cropping said forecastle "front" and the other ending at the end of Canada's hull. Canada from forecastle to stern is about 50.05mm, with the Ganges going about 2.56mm further. Obviously this is only an approximation of a gundeck length comparison.
Attachment 53785
Thanks for all the explanations, Henry. Yes, my initial thought was that maybe I had gotten a 1/1200 Canada, but your diagrams match my physical reality.:happy:
Here are mine at 1000th scale. As you can see there is hardly a smidgeon between them.
Rob.
Henry, if it helps to know Greenwich draughts usually show the decks as dashed lines. Beam is usually over the hull planks, not including catheads.
(But if memory serves, not over wales, the planking is 'just' the normal thickness, so extreme breadth is about 8" more than the 'over planking value').
Canada *should* be longer than Ganges on the Lower deck. What is happening at roundhouse and beakhead may be a different story, with these being longer on earlier period ships compared to later draughts.
French and Spanish seem to take different GD length and beam measures, as the conversion to 25.4mm inches from 27.7mm give a consistently 'different' value than the taking off measurements by the English captures. This is also true of captured US ships.
At this scale the 6" length difference on LD is so insignificant as to be a Rounding Error. I'd need to take a closer look at the drawings again, but some designs extend the LD into the gallery while others stop at the sternpost with galleries only on MD/UD and QD.
Pretty much the length measured right below the lower gunports should be within a fraction of a millimeter.
Here's both of Henry's 74's plus Bellona together in 1/500 or double-Ares scale. Top to bottom Bellona-Ganges-Orion, it's surprising that Canada has so much more hull outside the deck length.
Attachment 53802
The only other possibility I see is that somehow things completely went to hell on my math enlarging and reducing drawings, then converting size to pizels at 96dpi--but you'd think if there was a flaw in the math they would still come out proportional to one another..
Also, the French inch and the Spanish inch are not the same, and even Spanish ships from different times do not use the same measure--some are built by the archaic codo, others by the Burgos foot. I've been fighting with this nightmare since even before the game first streeted for Ares; usually the first thing we do is metric conversion, which immediately gives us a target model size in mm.
I forgot the Burgos foot, I was more recently looking at artillery, where they share a common pound and inch with the French under the influence of the "Spanish Gribevaul system". (The same calibres, windage and shot, but a different pattern of reinforces, and lengths, as well as a useful early gunnade, authorised in the 1780s instead of the pathetic obusier d'vaisseau the French opted for).
Another variable would be is deck length measured as a flat plane, or along the sheer of it? Different sheer curvature will subtly increase or decrease deck length.
Measuring the Ganges, it is coming out at 3.0625" on the gun deck which at 169'6" = 1/664 scale.
The Canada is measuring 2.875" on the GD which at 170' = 1/710 scale
According to Winfield and Wikipedia, you have Canada 2' too long, at 170' it comes out about 1/710. Not much better of a match but a little.
Target lengths for a 1/700 LD should be 2.906" on LD for Ganges and 2.914" for Canada, so rescale to around 94.89% and 101.36% respectively. Our target lengths in Sails should be 2.034" and 2.040".
Here is an easy scale converter you can use to determine how long the model needs to be. Just plug in the desired scale and actual feet or meters of the ship, and it will give you inches or milimeters the model should to be.
https://www.ginifab.com/feeds/cm_to_...converter.html
At least with this, when you print your own and it comes out off scale, there's the ability to type in a correction and get it right, unlike Minigildos and Baby Baham one way or Roid Rage Constitution the other...
Is it time to have a sticky thread for 3D Printing?
Could be. Before Henry I didn't think there were much competition from 3D-printing. Now there's many hulls definitely worth printing. He does wonderful work. I still think there's a lack of masts and sails worth the resin. It almost makes me want to model them myself. It's 30 years since I left CATIA behind an moved from mechanical engineering to software...
I haven't bothered printing any of the available masts (save for those on a L'Ocean, which were reasonably well modelled). I'm putting off doing the rigging though as I'd want to do it *right* and that is a PITA.
I'd love some properly proportioned spars and yards - for my tastes as separate (the mast), and (the yards) so a realistic set of sail can be flown, and unused yards can be dropped to their seats, with only set sails (and some of those clewed up) hauled up. (I have some in larger scales though, so this is both needing more detail/better form, and also rewarding a more thorough job on rigging..)
If you chaps can come up with a realistic guide to Printing I will be happy to stick it for you. it could go into the "How to" forum.
Rob.
I think I could write it, but I'm not sure what I would add in that thread. I would definately have forgottn to mention about removing the build plate if it hadn't been asked.
Definately! Right now I use Sails of Glory masts which aren't the best, but at least they're consistent in my fleet.
As propotionate you can make them for printing. At least I'd make them tapered. Bulging sails that don't stick to the mast at the lower end for no reason at all (other than possibly for ease of printing).
I am doing the same Jonas. I am using up my SoG spare masts, but have ordered three Ares Frigates specially to get the masts for your Swedish printed ones. the hulls of those will do for more foundering ships.
Rob.
I will do that Captain.
Rob.
Just wanted to mention that I asked Henry Turner If there will be any more ships of our era coming up.
The last ship of the Kickstarter, HMS Magnanimie, will be finished in about a week.
He mentioned that his ACW range (15mm figures) is mostly done. His foray into Napoleonics (6mm figures) will be mostly done during summer. He hope to extend his Gilded Sails 17th century ships and has apparently committed himself to eventually covering the Continental Navy.
Continental Navy is good news Jonas.
Pity it is just about the time mine are nearly completed. Still I expect I will be tempted when I see his.
Rob.
I’m not personally that attracted to it and there will be a lot of small vessels that will be outside of the scope of Sails of Glory, but I know many of you here are interested.
I personally would want to see two British second rates, the British large 74 and the Swedish Wasa-class third rate.
As requested Jonas I can now report that ships docked about an hour ago. They are now residing in the Quarintine dock for 72 hours.
Many thanks for this present.
Rob.
Good to hear, Rob!
I hope they arrived safely and isn't in need of repairs, but we“ll know that when they leave Quarantine dock.
Hello chaps!
I'm very sorry that I up and disappeared - I've been busy with the prep work for the new Kickstarter (just launched today but I'm afraid it's figure-based not naval; so not liable to be of interest!).
In honesty I am still having issues receiving notifications of replies to this thread; they seem to go straight to spam. I do check my spambox every so often, and I've had the idea that I need to check back here periodically on my mind, but it wasn't until Diamondback got in touch with me a few days ago that I felt a bit of a kick up the jacksie to come back! I daresay I've missed a bit :o
For what it's worth, if any of you ever need to reach me semi-urgently, do feel free to get in touch at turnerminiatures@gmail.com - I will admit I can sometimes be a bit slow getting back if I've got my hands full, but you'll most certainly be on my radar in that case!
One thing I want to add that's come to mind since our discussion about the ships being, err, sticky - since moving out of my old digs and getitng to a place where I had much more room, I've invested in an Elegoo Wash & Cure Station and I have to say to those of you who're printing who don't have something similar - get one! The quality of life improvement has been incredible; stuff gets washed and cured without me ever having to come into contact with raw resin. I wish I'd had that machine when fulfilling your physical orders as it wouldn't made things A. Much easier for me and B. Much more hygenic for you :/
Thanks :)
Masts are an area I need to work on - I do have the Generic Mast Set on Wargaming3D, which has single-piece and two-piece masts, but they're very much, err, "for the wargamer." I've had the idea of modelling sails with actual details sculpted on them, separate "proper" fighting tops and separate furled sails to be glued on scratchbuilt yards, etc. but I have to confess that the material incentive hasn't really been there for me.
That is to say that, in an opportunity cost sense, working on a kit of such masts that'd probably sell for something like $3 and maybe make $60 total doesn't work out :/ Buuuut perhaps it might be doable as a paid add-on for the Continental Navy KS, when that comes about? Something like $10 extra for "proper" masts for the whole fleet.
I'm sorry to ramble but this leads me into a sort of misconception I had going into all this - I'd thought that my models, when I started, would be tailoring to wargamers as substitutes for Black Seas ships but I've found more and more that people solely focussed on wargaming will buy one ship of each type (usually the cheapest) and leave it at that. My most consistent customers have been more the "collector" types - so it may well make sense to start catering more toward collector's interests. A lot of people think my models are too fragile for wargaming anyway (the cannons are a smidge prone to snapping off with clumsy handling!).
My Baltic Bulwarks had separate yardarms, but nobody used them :/ At the time I was much more inexperienced with modelling masts and so found it demoralising as it had been something like two days' solid work to make them! I'm sure that now I could knock them out within a day but, still, one would need to know there was widespread appeal and it wasn't for the sake of a handful. Because it wouldn't really feel conscionable to charge top money for.... masts and sails.
A useful links section might be good? I really recommend Wargaming3D's "Idiot's Guide to 3D Printing."
This is all correct :)
A rough guesstimate vis-a-vis my likely release cycle:
Nappies: Today
Cold War Figures: August/September
Gilded Sails 2 (17th Century Bourbon Navy): Late Summer/Early Autumn; probably late September/Early October
Continental Navy: November/December
While we're discussing the Cape St Vincent set, Tecsas (sorry if I've spelt that wrong) hit me with the lovely idea of adapting Rayo, the sister ship of Fenix, into her three-decker variant - might make for a quick model I can put out using the same basis! I'll be putting the idea to my Patreon patrons when we have our monthly ship poll (they vote on a ship for me to make each month)
I would like to do a Swedish mini-Kickstarter some time; I'd thought about doing one revolving around Af-Chapman.
Oh and by the way, Jonas, I finally saw Rob's PM - no objections here! Glad you were able to spot him a Bellona; she's a nice little ship :)
No problem here. I could use that idiots guide to 3d printing now that I have a printer. :shock:
I see that you put a lot of work into the Napoleonics KS. I got on early enough today but sadly work pulled me away and I missed the Early Bird Whole Lot pledge. Got in on the core set. Most interested in the German minor states. Fingers crossed all the stretch goals are met!!
I also got in on another Napoleonic KS - 1815 British Center and Flank Companies by David Vasquez (He is a pro painter so his figures look great). He has already done French and is concentrating on the 100 days. The figures are scaled more for 15-18mm. Take a look at his skirmish poses.
You have already started a little with af Chapman as you made the Bellona-class frigates. I'm very thankful for that, but an extended mini-kickstarter would be wonderful.
I'm spelled Tecsas on Facebook as they for an unknown reason don't allow Texas as a given name. I don't mind.
It's great to hear from you, and I hope you return to the Age of Admirals as soon as you can.
Regarding the sails, I'm not sure what would be the best solution as they are a bit fragile for wargamers when printed. I just bought a "tough" resin so I will see what difference that makes.
Regarding your figures, I think there's a few general wargamers here that have had their forays into that area too. Myself I have a few different eras and scales but unfortunately you haven't hit those yet. Being able to print more troops as I need them for the growing armies would be a dream, especially with the ability to customize them as you showed in your video. Turning heads and making the ranks a bit more alive is just great.
I fully understand that you have to make a living out of it too.
My idea for Rayo was based on that many want to be able to do Trafalgar and she was there. Just a single ship to print for the wargamers but there's not many ways to get her.
If I'm guessing right you still put up the Patreon ships on Wargaming3D, perhaps after a while to give Patreons exclusivity for a while.
I thought of joining, but as my interest lies with the Naval Napoleonics I'm not sure how much of that I'd get.