Advice sought from the modelers

Hello Folks,

Sue and I are diving into modeling, and I am about to put in our first order to Langton. Here's what we have thus far:

USS Constitution
USS Constitution at quarters
HMS Victory (not sure if at quarters)
Santisima Trinidad (not sure if at quarters)

For at quarters, we will order the associated size of brass Easy Sail with courses furled, otherwise Full Sail.

Should we order anything else from Langton's site in terms of accessories? Are we wise in ordering brass as opposed to white medal? Are our sail choices logical? Is there a given ship that you would recommend for our first try?

We're ordering Langton's book as well.

We're ordering ships we'll eventually want - iconic ships from different nations (suggestions welcome), certain ships that I have read on and feel a connection to (e.g. Constitution), etc. Our focus is not solely for play, but also the desire to try some modeling, and if all goes well, to clutter up the game room with interesting ships that have some measure of meaning to us. If all goes well, I can see us eventually building more for play, i.e. focus on a given war or given nation. For now, it is modeling more for the experience and joy of it.

We are looking into an airbrush, so any advice would be appreciated. Sue recently started painting fantasy minis, and we will be doing some WoG repaints, WWII armor, buildings, etc., so it will be used for different genres of games.

Thanks again Vol for getting this ball rolling. We're excited to give it a try.

Thanks,
Eric

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 7eat51

Hello Folks,

Sue and I are diving into modeling, and I am about to put in our first order to Langton. Here's what we have thus far:

USS Constitution
USS Constitution at quarters
HMS Victory (not sure if at quarters)
Santisima Trinidad (not sure if at quarters)

For at quarters, we will order the associated size of brass Easy Sail with courses furled, otherwise Full Sail.

Should we order anything else from Langton's site in terms of accessories? Are we wise in ordering brass as opposed to white medal? Are our sail choices logical? Is there a given ship that you would recommend for our first try?

We're ordering Langton's book as well.

We're ordering ships we'll eventually want - iconic ships from different nations (suggestions welcome), certain ships that I have read on and feel a connection to (e.g. Constitution), etc. Our focus is not solely for play, but also the desire to try some modeling, and if all goes well, to clutter up the game room with interesting ships that have some measure of meaning to us. If all goes well, I can see us eventually building more for play, i.e. focus on a given war or given nation. For now, it is modeling more for the experience and joy of it.

We are looking into an airbrush, so any advice would be appreciated. Sue recently started painting fantasy minis, and we will be doing some WoG repaints, WWII armor, buildings, etc., so it will be used for different genres of games.

Thanks again Vol for getting this ball rolling. We're excited to give it a try.

Thanks,
Eric

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Hey Eric, and Sue,

Here are my thoughts in response to your questions. Others, more experienced might have better advice, but I have learned a couple of things in the process of doing two Langton ships.

Btw, I opted for going with Waterloo Minis as he carries the full range of Langton products, has great customer service and does not charge shipping costs.

-If starting over I would not begin with a ship at quarters. The cannons look cool, but are a challenge to paint effectively.
-Start out with a smaller ship like the Constitution (or like the Montanes I did first).
-Use the white metal sail sets initially. From what I've read the brass sails can be fiddly and I don't know how well they hold up to the rigging process?
-The Langton book is a must, especially for the rigging process (I may have to purchase another copy as I'm already wearing mine out).
-I have an airbrush, but I'm using spray paint for the priming and hand painting on everything else.
-Use acrylic paints, they're so much easier to use and clean up after.
-Get some good brushes (Winsor and Newton or Rosemary and Co. are great); size 1 and 0, and maybe 00 as well.
-Be sure to pick up a pair of opposable tweezers. I cannot imagine how I would do the rigging without them.
-Take your time and don't rush. I try to limit the painting to about a two hour period and rigging to an hour or so. Rigging can be very frustrating and a very real pain in the neck.
-Spend some time looking at blogs, like Vol's, James', and also photos like Rory's and others on the web. The Miniatures Page is a great resource too.
-Don't buy too much ahead as you might be rushing to get to the next ship rather than focusing on the one in hand (I've already failed at this one!)

I'm looking forward to see your efforts come to fruition. Have fun!

Jim

Jim, thanks. This is great advice.

We are starting with the Constitution - not at quarters based on advice from Vol. Your recommendation to do the same is noteworthy, and any newbie should heed the two of your's advice.

Based on your comment, I will order some of each type of sail. We will start with the white, as recommended, but have the brass to compare.

Sue started collecting Vallejo paints; a guy is fortunate when his wife asks if he will take her to game stores. Do you like any brand in particular?

I understand the time limit you impose. I will have to convince my better-half on this; once she gets started, it is hard to pull her away. Sue's ability to focus is difficult for me to comprehend at times, especially when she is involved with an artistic venture. I have no doubt I will end up being her assistant, rather than she being mine.

Thanks for the supply recommendations. Any others?

Sue will actually help with staying on task - one ship at a time. I will put the other ships in a different part of the house, because I know I could very well lose to the temptation you mentioned.

While we await our order, we will definitely look at blogs; we have perused a few already - amazing stuff. I can highly recommend Vol's: http://volsminiatures.blogspot.com/

This is my first time touching a model in 35+ years. I am excited and daunted at the same time. Worse thing, we will have a nice collection of wrecks and damaged ships. :wink:

Eric:

I would second the recommendation for Langton's book on painting and rigging - invaluble. For many years I mostly used craft store paints, Apple Barrel, etc from AC Moore and Micheals and I still do, much cheaper than Vallejo. I have recently started using Vallejo and found the dropper bottle most annoying. I would advise that you get some cheap plastic pallets to hold your paint.

I prefer the lead sails over the brass because they are easier to work with and much less fiddly IMO. Just glue them on and you are done. The brass do look better though. I would also recommend putting on at least the standing rigging, which helps support the masts on the model.

Good Luck

Eric

OK, you guys need to stop....I already bought the SoG KS I do not need to start modeling it as well. I have already done complete fleets for SAPN-AM war RUSSO-Japanese, most of WWII and currently working on WWI.

Still to be painted:

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/q...psd587d38e.jpg

Stop tempting me with these awesome looking models....they are not even the correct scale.:)

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Originally Posted by DeRuyter

Eric:

I would second the recommendation for Langton's book on painting and rigging - invaluble. For many years I mostly used craft store paints, Apple Barrel, etc from AC Moore and Micheals and I still do, much cheaper than Vallejo. I have recently started using Vallejo and found the dropper bottle most annoying. I would advise that you get some cheap plastic pallets to hold your paint.

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I too use to use all the craft store brands and still have containers full. A few years ago I made the switch to vallejo and am so glad I did. No clumps and speads much more evenly. Whlie the dropper style bottle may annoy some I find I use/waste much less paint as a lttle goes such a long way. Yes, a pallet is a must and you can pick the up for less than a $1 at most craft stores.

Aaron, I, too, feel tempted when seeing others' minis of other time periods. If only we were younger.

Thanks Aaron and Eric for your recommendation. I think Sue might have a pallet from other work, but if not, it will be on the list.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 7eat51

Jim, thanks. This is great advice.

We are starting with the Constitution - not at quarters based on advice from Vol. Your recommendation to do the same is noteworthy, and any newbie should heed the two of your's advice.

Based on your comment, I will order some of each type of sail. We will start with the white, as recommended, but have the brass to compare.

Sue started collecting Vallejo paints; a guy is fortunate when his wife asks if he will take her to game stores. Do you like any brand in particular?

I understand the time limit you impose. I will have to convince my better-half on this; once she gets started, it is hard to pull her away. Sue's ability to focus is difficult for me to comprehend at times, especially when she is involved with an artistic venture. I have no doubt I will end up being her assistant, rather than she being mine.

Thanks for the supply recommendations. Any others?

Sue will actually help with staying on task - one ship at a time. I will put the other ships in a different part of the house, because I know I could very well lose to the temptation you mentioned.

While we await our order, we will definitely look at blogs; we have perused a few already - amazing stuff. I can highly recommend Vol's: http://volsminiatures.blogspot.com/

This is my first time touching a model in 35+ years. I am excited and daunted at the same time. Worse thing, we will have a nice collection of wrecks and damaged ships. :wink:

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You're going to have a great time. I'm planning on a Constitution at some point, but am focused on the Spanish ships right now.

I like Vallejo paints, some select Citadel ones and I've also picked up several jars of the Howard Hues paints. Got mine at The Last Square but you can get them online as well. A large jar costs $3.75 or there about http://www.rlbps.com/howard%20hues.htm I think everyone finds something that they enjoy working with and that meets budget needs? I'm still learning washes, and they are available as store bought items, but most folks just create their own.

Don't forget to wash the minis in warm soapy water and do prime them. I'm using gray auto primer, but many prefer white (between Rustoleum vs. Krylon I definitely prefer Rustoleum primers). Putting them on a popsicle stick really works well for painting (keeps the oil from your skin marking up the model too I imagine).

I think that's it for product recommendations. Oh, one more. . . .I am using two kinds of super glue; both from Gorilla. One is more gel like and I use a needle to apply the glue for the rigging. It was Vol, Rory, James, or someone here that recommended using the needle to get a drop and then apply to the ship. You have much more control that way.

Can't wait to see what you and Sue create.

Jim

Hi Eric & Sue,
Rat-lines. You must get Langton's Rat-lines. Do the standing rigging then add the rat-lines before you do the running rigging (If you do them). The rat-line help make the model stronger. I think metal sails are stronger and easer to do and use. I know Vol loves brass ones. Its up to you! I would also add Langton's bases for your ships.
I hope to do a step by step guild with photos in a week or 2. Not to show the best or only way to do it, just my way. I hope it will help you and other ship mates as a whole or in part. Drill holes before painting. Jim is so right with his info. Dave talks about the ship looking good at arms length, that is a good guild line. I use tooth-picks for gluing as well.
Be safe
Rory

Great stuff guys, thanks. I will look at the catalog for ratlines and post before ordering. As for bases, are you referring to the water/sea section? One good thing is that I have long arms, so the ships might not look too bad after all. :happy:

Rory, I look forward to seeing you guide.

I think once we have done a ship or two, read the book, etc., it will make future ordering much easier. When starting out, there is no way to anticipate, on one's own, all that will be needed. I am very grateful for such a supportive and knowledgeable community.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nightmoss

You're going to have a great time. I'm planning on a Constitution at some point, but am focused on the Spanish ships right now.

I like Vallejo paints, some select Citadel ones and I've also picked up several jars of the Howard Hues paints. Got mine at The Last Square but you can get them online as well. A large jar costs $3.75 or there about http://www.rlbps.com/howard%20hues.htm I think everyone finds something that they enjoy working with and that meets budget needs? I'm still learning washes, and they are available as store bought items, but most folks just create their own.

Don't forget to wash the minis in warm soapy water and do prime them. I'm using gray auto primer, but many prefer white (between Rustoleum vs. Krylon I definitely prefer Rustoleum primers). Putting them on a popsicle stick really works well for painting (keeps the oil from your skin marking up the model too I imagine).

I think that's it for product recommendations. Oh, one more. . . .I am using two kinds of super glue; both from Gorilla. One is more gel like and I use a needle to apply the glue for the rigging. It was Vol, Rory, James, or someone here that recommended using the needle to get a drop and then apply to the ship. You have much more control that way.

Can't wait to see what you and Sue create.

Jim

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Good points about priming. Some people prefer white or grey and use washes over their base coats, others prefer black primer and adding gradually lightening colours on top. I usually black prime (sometimes a white dry brush will lighten the sculped highlights). On larger models I prime white and apply washes - this works great to highlight decks.

Oh and I am in the don't need to wash camp - skip it and prime with Rustoleum flat black - it will adhere to the unwashed bare metal. (pick it up at Lowes). I use white glue to put the hulls on wide popcicle sticks. For the masts I drilled holes in a block of balsa to use as a holder whilst painting. I would attach the sails to the mast then paint. For the glue you can get cynao glue at Lowes or HD in gel or standard with control tips that work well. I use the "Loctite" brand. I prefer the gel if you don't need instant adhesion because it is easier to control and less mess.

For more modeling tips for wargaming search TMP: www.theminiaturespage.com

Now if I could only get my wife to work on ships and paint figures for me! :envy:

Eric

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Originally Posted by 7eat51

As for bases, are you referring to the water/sea section?

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Langton's make 4 bases for Napoleonic ships. In Resin:- 3 deckers, 3rd rates and frigates. In metal:- smaller for unrated ships. They also do bases for Great Lakes ships and for Baltic inshore ships
Be safe
Rory

Just checked Langton's site Rory. I now see the bases. Thanks.

What do you think of the other miscellaneous items such as Martello towers, shore batteries, etc.?

Thanks for the tips and link, Eric. Yeah, I am starting to realize just how blessed I am concerning Sue. Yesterday, she spent the day working on plane cards for 'Drome members. In the evening, she came into the room where I was at and started to explain the difference between early and late war German airplane cross insignias. I am still trying to get my mind around this.

Rod Langton's accessories are excellent and fit very nicely with the 1/1000 models. Gunboats, shore batteries and the towers are especially useful.

Thanks David. I will add some more items to the order.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DeRuyter

Good points about priming. Some people prefer white or grey and use washes over their base coats, others prefer black primer and adding gradually lightening colours on top. I usually black prime (sometimes a white dry brush will lighten the sculped highlights). On larger models I prime white and apply washes - this works great to highlight decks.

Oh and I am in the don't need to wash camp - skip it and prime with Rustoleum flat black - it will adhere to the unwashed bare metal. (pick it up at Lowes). I use white glue to put the hulls on wide popcicle sticks. For the masts I drilled holes in a block of balsa to use as a holder whilst painting. I would attach the sails to the mast then paint. For the glue you can get cynao glue at Lowes or HD in gel or standard with control tips that work well. I use the "Loctite" brand. I prefer the gel if you don't need instant adhesion because it is easier to control and less mess.

For more modeling tips for wargaming search TMP: www.theminiaturespage.com

Now if I could only get my wife to work on ships and paint figures for me! :envy:

Eric

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I'll have to try different primers as a comparison at some point. Skipping the washing might be worth trying as well. Thanks for the tips!

Eric, Sue:

Just thought of another item to consider purchasing. Micro drill bits for making the rigging holes in the ship and masts. Due to many small scale hobbies I splurged and picked up a very nice set on Amazon. You can use these drills just by twirling them with your fingers, no other tools needed.

http://www.amazon.com/Tungsten-Carbi.../dp/B009WCBV14

On the other hand I know others just use sharp needles or pins to push through the white metal.

Thanks for the recommendation and link Jim.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 7eat51

Just checked Langton's site Rory. I now see the bases. Thanks.

What do you think of the other miscellaneous items such as Martello towers, shore batteries, etc.?

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Hi Eric & Sue,
As David said ,Yes. I do not have Martello Towers, YET! They all come with ships boats rowing. The shore-batteries and ships boat are on my harbour thread or album.
Be safe
Rory

Eric and Sue;

I'm finally getting around to finishing some GHQ ships I bought a while ago. I use the Langton sail sets because they look better than the GHQ ones and have tried the metal and brass. The brass ones are very nice but do take some more work and I do worry that they will get damaged easier. A couple of other suggestions for you are:

- definitely get the rat lines.
- becareful when you do the standing rigging. It is easy to pull a mast forward and then cause some of the other lines you already attached to droop.
- this is probably too perfectionist, but be consistent in how you string the rigging. If you loop some lines around a mast or yard in one direction and then others around the other way, the lines can look out of kilter.

Good luck,

David

I forgot to mention that I use bases that have magnets on the bottom so I can store the minis in a metal box, or box with a sheet of thin metal on the bottom, so they don't tip over.

Hi, I do not claim to be a naval modeller, but have painted 28mm Napoleonic figures for over 30 years, I would say to anyone entering that field “Don’t get the Guard first”. By this I mean that, the first figures you paint will begin to look shabby against figures you paint in 2, 5 or 10 years’ time. The Guard figures, the pride of the army, should stand out as being exceptional.

I would hate you to paint the Victory, or any other of your favourite ships, only to have them look less good than the meat and two veg of your fleet.

As someone more eloquent than me said, do a 74, the most common ship in the fleet, where the first attempts can be hidden.

Rabbit

Thank you David and Rab.

I think I will heed the advice and start with a ship that is of lesser concern. Maybe a French one - just kidding Daniel and Sven. The advice makes a lot of sense.

Having been reading through Rory's thread, as well as seeing some of the builds and other modeling threads here and on the 'Drome, I decided to start with painting a few easier models anyway, so I have time to order a couple of second round ships that will actually become my first round in terms of builds, reserving my initial order for once I have acquired some skill. If I find I have no skill, I will turn over the ships to Sue. I must admit, the size of these ships and the WoG minis - received our first shipment of Shapeways this week - is a bit intimidating for someone who hasn't built a model in 35+ years. But I figure I can't go far wrong with such a group as folks here and on the 'Drome to turn to. Again, let me say thank you for your advice, encouragement, and inspiration.

Heeding the advice of my fellow shipmates here, I just ordered the following which I will do for my first model, reserving the previously mentioned ships for a time when skill has arrived, hopefully, arrived, prayerfully, arrived.

All below are Langton:
British 74-gun Large - as mentioned, I can hide this among others if need be
Easy Sail ES1 - white metal
Ratlines 74/80 gun vessels
Sea Base for 3rd/4th Rates

I look forward to sharing my handiwork with you. At present, I don't know if it will end up being a battle-ready ship or a wreck. Regardless, I think it will be fun trying.

Any advice on airbrushes?

We would use one for all types of minis: WWII armor, buildings, WWI and WWII planes, fantasy minis, etc. Sue has jumped into the deep end of the mini painting pool, and with me dipping my toes in, I foresee an airbrush in our future, if for nothing else than to the reduce time of priming, but I anticipate much more use. Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 7eat51

Heeding the advice of my fellow shipmates here, I just ordered the following which I will do for my first model, reserving the previously mentioned ships for a time when skill has arrived, hopefully, arrived, prayerfully, arrived.

All below are Langton:
British 74-gun Large - as mentioned, I can hide this among others if need be
Easy Sail ES1 - white metal
Ratlines 74/80 gun vessels
Sea Base for 3rd/4th Rates

I look forward to sharing my handiwork with you. At present, I don't know if it will end up being a battle-ready ship or a wreck. Regardless, I think it will be fun trying.

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If I can help, SHOUT!
Be safe
Rory

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Devsdoc

If I can help, SHOUT!
Be safe
Rory

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Trust me; I will.

Thanks, my Friend.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 7eat51

Any advice on airbrushes?

We would use one for all types of minis: WWII armor, buildings, WWI and WWII planes, fantasy minis, etc. Sue has jumped into the deep end of the mini painting pool, and with me dipping my toes in, I foresee an airbrush in our future, if for nothing else than to the reduce time of priming, but I anticipate much more use. Thanks.

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Eric, to be honest I rarely use my airbrush. I'm probably just being lazy but I hate the hassle of preparation, and I really dislike the clean up on the airbrush even more. Maybe some airbrushes are easier than others? I just use cans of spray paint I get from the hardware store for priming. Another issue is the paint smell. If you don't have an air hood even latex paint can smell in the house. This is a good reminder to get a lot of stuff primed out of doors before our weather gets too cold. Then I'll have plenty of stuff to work through winter.

But to answer your question I have a Badger basic airbrush package I picked up for model railroading. It works well enough and the entire set included the compressor, airbrush, various cleaners and hoses.

Good advice about priming in anticipation of winter. This is part of the draw toward an airbrush - a lot of priming of different types of minis. Badger - thanks.

So to pipe in and ask my own question. Does anyone have information on how to paint the Swedish Army Fleet? I have a small archipelago fleet, but haven't found good information on paint schemes. I've made my own design on an oared frigate, but it doesn't seem to reflect what little information I have, any suggestions?

Cory,
Vol has a book on the Baltic Wars, But I can not think of the name. PM him. Go on the Langton site www.rodlangton.com . From 1-1200 Napoleonic ships go to the Baltic bit. He has some painted ship which may help you. From this site I did learnt that the Swedish flag is all blue for the army fleet. I was going to paint mine (In a year or 2) to match the high sea fleet (not started yet).
Be safe
Rory

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Originally Posted by 7eat51

Sea Base for 3rd/4th Rates

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If you plan to use the 1/1200 ships with SoG rules and cards I would suggest mounting them on 50mm x 75mm bases so they match the SoG bases.

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Originally Posted by Gunner

If you plan to use the 1/1200 ships with SoG rules and cards I would suggest mounting them on 50mm x 75mm bases so they match the SoG bases.

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Ed,
I think a slightly bigger block-like base would help the little bit of scale diffident. Having a over-lap you could see markings use in SOG moves and firing. On the larger bases I think one could use a template. This would open 1-1200 ships to all rules.
Be safe
Rory

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Devsdoc

Cory,
Vol has a book on the Baltic Wars, But I can not think of the name. PM him. Go on the Langton site www.rodlangton.com . From 1-1200 Napoleonic ships go to the Baltic bit. He has some painted ship which may help you. From this site I did learnt that the Swedish flag is all blue for the army fleet. I was going to paint mine (In a year or 2) to match the high sea fleet (not started yet).
Be safe
Rory

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Thanks Rory, I'll get on this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Devsdoc

Ed,
I think a slightly bigger block-like base would help the little bit of scale diffident. Having a over-lap you could see markings use in SOG moves and firing. On the larger bases I think one could use a template. This would open 1-1200 ships to all rules.
Be safe
Rory

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There you go, thinking again. Great idea.
Now what am I going to do with all 50x75 bases I bought:question::hmmm:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gunner

There you go, thinking again. Great idea.
Now what am I going to do with all 50x75 bases I bought:question::hmmm:

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No Ed,
You have it easy. Your bases are clear and thin. You can use your bases for all rules and games. Just place your ships, base and all onto the thick SOG bases for the best looking SOG ship on the block. You lucky shipmate :salute:
Be safe
Rory

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Devsdoc

No Ed,
You have it easy. Your bases are clear and thin. You can use your bases for all rules and games. Just place your ships, base and all onto the thick SOG bases for the best looking SOG ship on the block. You lucky shipmate :salute:
Be safe
Rory

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That's the plan. I was trying to be nice.:drinks:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gunner

That's the plan. I was trying to be nice.:drinks:

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Ed, Why trying. You are a shipmate. :drinks:
Be safe
Rory

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DeRuyter

For many years I mostly used craft store paints, Apple Barrel, etc from AC Moore and Micheals and I still do, much cheaper than Vallejo.

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I use the cheap craft paints almost exclusively. It takes a little practice to get the hang of mixing colors to get what you really want, but the cost savings is truly dramatic.

I find that the craft paints tend to be too thick and require thinning. For thinning, I have a recipe that I use (learned it from a professional air brush artist). I mix 4 cups of water, 1 cup of rubbing alcohol, 5 drops of glycerin (available in the Pharmacy department). Also, I find the results to be more pleasing when I use very thin paint, but apply multiple coats, instead of thicker paint that covers in a single coat.