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Beowulf03809
03-29-2013, 09:24
A new stretch goal has been announced. (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1402889231/sails-of-glory-miniatures-ship-combat/posts/440374)

Personally I will probably use cotton / fabric (probably painted) to represent smoke and fire but this is still nice. I am mostly excited about this quote:

"...and we've asked our brave authors to add rules for the effect of smoke clouds."

Very exciting for me as the visibility issues created by the tremendous smoke in a close fight are often mentioned in writings.

Sea Gull
03-29-2013, 09:32
I would have expected smoke rules to already be in there. If not, they're leaving it awfully late to get the thing playtested properly and into production to meet the August deadline.

David Manley
03-29-2013, 09:46
It will be interesting to see where they go with this. The word "smoke" does not yet appear anywhere in the rules :)

The Royal Hajj
03-29-2013, 09:57
I think Andrea has already been working on smoke rules... might have even been in his early drafts and just left out to simplify the game some more.



A new stretch goal has been announced. (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1402889231/sails-of-glory-miniatures-ship-combat/posts/440374)

Personally I will probably use cotton / fabric (probably painted) to represent smoke and fire but this is still nice. I am mostly excited about this quote:

"...and we've asked our brave authors to add rules for the effect of smoke clouds."

Very exciting for me as the visibility issues created by the tremendous smoke in a close fight are often mentioned in writings.

I am sure a lot of the hobby people will do something similar. These would make great bases for those hobby efforts as well. Would make them much easier to pick up and move from ship to ship as needed. I can also say that many Wings players used cotton and such for their flame and smoke markers, and made the switch to my acrylic once because they are so easy to use and store.

David Manley
03-29-2013, 10:09
I think Andrea has already been working on smoke rules... might have even been in his early drafts and just left out to simplify the game some more.

Yes, I am sure you are right.

David Manley
03-29-2013, 10:17
Personally I will probably use cotton / fabric (probably painted) to represent smoke and fire but this is still nice.

I will too. My own AoS rules use fire and smoke markers to represent ships aflame and broadsides fired. My own markers are black cotton wool dabbed with red and yellow poster paint for fires, and strips of white stuffing material on blue bases the length of a typical ship for smoky broadsides. They look bl**dy good, imho. But I can see why plastic ones would be popular. I'm sure they'll go down a storm

7eat51
03-29-2013, 10:29
I will too. My own AoS rules use fire and smoke markers to represent ships aflame and broadsides fired. My own markers are black cotton wool dabbed with red and yellow poster paint for fires, and strips of white stuffing material on blue bases the length of a typical ship for smoky broadsides. They look bl**dy good, imho. But I can see why plastic ones would be popular. I'm sure they'll go down a storm

Do you have any problems with them coming apart?

David Manley
03-29-2013, 10:43
Do you have any problems with them coming apart?

No, none at all.

PilGrim
03-29-2013, 11:13
Not impressed at all by the last couple of stretch goals to be honest. With the best will in the world they're fan produced accessories, not anything that would make me want to bump to a higher pledge level.

Come on Ares, give us something to make us sit up and pledge - an East Indiaman or a merchant would be nice

7eat51
03-29-2013, 11:18
Do you have any problems with them coming apart?

Not having played AoS minis before, do you recommend any other similar types of markers to the two you mentioned - ships aflame and broadsides fired?

David Manley
03-29-2013, 11:42
I also have fallen masts and "struck" flags from Rod Langton , plus markers showing ships at anchor and ships on springs. I try to use as many "model" markers as I can to enhance the visual appeal

Wargamer
03-29-2013, 11:50
Ah but then you are trying to get the complete thing in one fell swoop. But you have to remember the idea that the game companies want to keep you interested in buying more ships, more accessories. More ships as stretch goals would mean they would be coming to us in a year or more instead of a few months. Expect expansions to be worthwhile instead. Although a merchant expansion pack of a eim and a few merchies at say the 300k line would be reasonable imho.


Not impressed at all by the last couple of stretch goals to be honest. With the best will in the world they're fan produced accessories, not anything that would make me want to bump to a higher pledge level.

Come on Ares, give us something to make us sit up and pledge - an East Indiaman or a merchant would be nice

7eat51
03-29-2013, 11:59
I also have fallen masts and "struck" flags from Rod Langton , plus markers showing ships at anchor and ships on springs. I try to use as many "model" markers as I can to enhance the visual appeal

Thanks.

BonhommeRichard
03-29-2013, 15:09
sounds interesting i cant wait until its actually all complete so we can play and see everything all together

Berthier
03-29-2013, 17:47
It will be interesting to see where they go with this. The word "smoke" does not yet appear anywhere in the rules :)

What about mirrors?:sly:

Wargamer
03-29-2013, 18:23
What about mirrors?:sly:

And here I thought no politics on the bar. Smoke and mirrors being the favorite dance of career politicians and other con-men.

Andy Blozinski
03-29-2013, 19:06
This humorously made me realize I'd totally forgotten about broadside created smoke screens when I did my Heart of Oak/Signal Close Action mash-up rules. Whoops.
It would be nice if we were given an example of something similar to get a visual perspective. A brief text description as well. Is it a horizontal plate representing smoke, or is it vertical?

The Royal Hajj
03-29-2013, 19:37
It's horizontal... I should have photos of them and the combat ruler next week.

Berthier
03-29-2013, 19:37
Good question Andy, one would think vertical might be a better representation of gun smoke, fires could be either depending on whether they went on the base, a mast, or somewhere else. I have played Flying Colours (GMT) and they gave you a choice of marking ships status with marker chits on the board or recording them on a log. The chits on the board were a real pain, stacks of markers on top of/next to the ships looked awful so logs were much better. But as I've mentioned elsewhere some ship status information should be visible to all not just the ship owners. Fires, masts down, explosions and being in chains are obvious to everyone and should be clearly designated somehow. I would think an explosion marker could be pretty easy to devise. Broadside markers would need to be placed on the base I think.

Andy Blozinski
03-29-2013, 21:16
It's horizontal... I should have photos of them and the combat ruler next week.

Wonderful. That would be much appreciated. My intention is to set this up as a convention demo game. These might be a neat visual to add to it.

7eat51
03-29-2013, 21:54
What about mirrors?:sly:

Let me reflect on that.

David Manley
03-30-2013, 00:46
....explosions....

When we ran our Battle of the Nile demo games at shows back in the 1990s and early 2000s we had a shoeboxfull of black and red cotton wool on standby for L'Orient, just in case :)

Diamondback
03-30-2013, 14:07
Boss, I'm not sure this one will get 20K of mileage--I'm past tap-out and still need to add 3 TP#2's somehow, so I'm all but out of the game--but if you can encourage then to announce the next stretch after this, and if it's a big bang it might be good for 40-45K.

Usually, in the KS's I've watched and the one I've previously participated, having two queued up announced at a time has helped--people get excited about the farther goal, which helps drag the near one over the finish-line faster.

At 17 days to go, given that this stretch we're roughly averaging 2.5k/day and an assumption of 25K/goal, my gut is telling me we'll probably meet this goal, but the next is gonna be shaky... over by about $1800. If we assume about 7-8 backers a day, then Lieutenants should get TP#2 in about 4 days, Mates about 3 days before the end.

17 days * $2.5K/day=$42,500 expected further pledges; $42,500 - $15,697 = $26,803 ... IF we make it across the finish line there, it's probably going to be End of the Line for this KS, unless we see something dramatic like a "Total Pledged In One Day" goal. And it's getting even more iffy if people keep dropping out... we just lost one Early Bird Captain, going by the drop of one backer and $240 in pledges.

The Royal Hajj
03-30-2013, 20:36
I'm not in charge of the stretch goal amounts, but I personally would have put these smoke markers at a $10k or $15k "mini stretch". Not because I don't think they are a worth while addition to the game, but because the project needed a bigger boosting stretch goal at this point.

I know two of three of the remaining stretch goal items that are being worked on (that I know about) are much more exciting and should drum up some pledges. You also need to factor in the end of campaign up swing. With maybe a few exceptions out there, every successfully funded project has an up swing in the last week.

RichardPF
03-30-2013, 20:51
I'm not in charge of the stretch goal amounts, but I personally would have put these smoke markers at a $10k or $15k "mini stretch". Not because I don't think they are a worth while addition to the game, but because the project needed a bigger boosting stretch goal at this point.

I know two of three of the remaining stretch goal items that are being worked on (that I know about) are much more exciting and should drum up some pledges. You also need to factor in the end of campaign up swing. With maybe a few exceptions out there, every successfully funded project has an up swing in the last week.

Was anything more ever mentioned about the Donald MacLeod prints or original paintings?
I missed it if it was.
That, being a bit "out of the box" might shake things loose a bit.

Cmmdre
03-30-2013, 20:55
The anticipation for the next stretch goals is like waiting for a breeze in the doldrums. I know they will come but the waiting is driving me mad.

Diamondback
03-30-2013, 21:43
I'm not in charge of the stretch goal amounts, but I personally would have put these smoke markers at a $10k or $15k "mini stretch". Not because I don't think they are a worth while addition to the game, but because the project needed a bigger boosting stretch goal at this point.
Right, Boss, I'm just suggesting a nudge from you might carry a little more weight than from the rest of us. I for one will admit that I had an "I'm sure they'll be nice, but as a stretch at this amount this is bull and I'm not buying it" reaction to 'em. IF it gets there I might add a few, but I'm not making the effort for a Last Big Push as I have with prior goals.


I know two of three of the remaining stretch goal items that are being worked on (that I know about) are much more exciting and should drum up some pledges. You also need to factor in the end of campaign up swing. With maybe a few exceptions out there, every successfully funded project has an up swing in the last week.
Re the ending uptick, that's just a normal trend--I've seen a rare few where it didn't happen, so I'm treating last-day spikes as a "bonus" and erring conservative. Sorry, to get much farther Ares needs belt-'em-out-of-the-ballpark homers, and right now they seem to be going for base-hits in the bottom of the 7th Inning--I'm not backing out or reducing my pledge (when I make a pledge I stand behind it barring dire emergency), but if I'm going to make the effort to end-run the pencil-pushers...

The Royal Hajj
03-31-2013, 21:34
Was anything more ever mentioned about the Donald MacLeod prints or original paintings?
I missed it if it was.
That, being a bit "out of the box" might shake things loose a bit.

I've not heard any more about it... but then I do not hear everything. The GAMA trade show also through a wrench in the works as well. Not only were they gone for pretty much a week, they have to play catch up on their normal duties (meaning non-KS things) now that they are back. Back before the KS project launched, we did talk about offering posters of the cover art, signed by either the artist or Andrea, or both. Logistics became an issue with those, and I think the idea was sunk.


Re the ending uptick, that's just a normal trend--I've seen a rare few where it didn't happen, so I'm treating last-day spikes as a "bonus" and erring conservative. Sorry, to get much farther Ares needs belt-'em-out-of-the-ballpark homers, and right now they seem to be going for base-hits in the bottom of the 7th Inning--I'm not backing out or reducing my pledge (when I make a pledge I stand behind it barring dire emergency), but if I'm going to make the effort to end-run the pencil-pushers...

I have no doubts that we will have the uptick at the end of this campaign.

Beowulf03809
04-01-2013, 10:29
I have just a few more dabloons in the budget but not yet sure how I want to use them. I'm probably going to have to wait until the last couple days of KS to commit until I know what remaining goals may show up. It's sad not to be able to let them know now that there's that little bit extra coming but that is how it has to go with me right now. I'm sure there are probably many other KS pledges that would also throw in some more at the end but it's 'hidden' money until the last goals are announced and people make final decisions on what options they want to commit to.

Andy Blozinski
04-05-2013, 22:42
Hey Hajj, any good possibility of us seeing a preview of the smoke markers this weekend?

The Royal Hajj
04-06-2013, 06:35
Hey Hajj, any good possibility of us seeing a preview of the smoke markers this weekend?

They were supposed to show up yesterday, but FedEx did not drop them off :cry: Maybe today.

Andy Blozinski
04-07-2013, 09:56
Since I get two free when we meet the goal, I was thinking the $4 was for two of them. I was assuming. If they're $4 each and I need one for every ship...that's gonna add up fast. I think they need to clarify if the $4 is each or for two of them. They're going to need to look really neat if they're $4 each.

David Manley
04-07-2013, 10:22
Since I get two free when we meet the goal, I was thinking the $4 was for two of them. I was assuming. If they're $4 each and I need one for every ship...that's gonna add up fast. I think they need to clarify if the $4 is each or for two of them. They're going to need to look really neat if they're $4 each.

It would be good if we knew what they were for :)

The Royal Hajj
04-07-2013, 19:42
They are $4 for a pair.

Dave, I think Andrea is writing some rules for them. But for now, they are just visual reminders of when a ship fires it's guns.

Diamondback
04-07-2013, 19:48
Boss, they're gonna be in either the Ares or AA catalog after the KS is done, right? I'm at the Something's Gotta Give point and trying to decide what I can safely defer to afford the Commodore upgrade.

Cmmdre
04-07-2013, 19:52
Boss, they're gonna be in either the Ares or AA catalog after the KS is done, right? I'm at the Something's Gotta Give point and trying to decide what I can safely defer to afford the Commodore upgrade.
Go for the upgrade you'll be happy you did. One set is nice but two is twice as nice. You'll be able to cut something out that you don't even know you don't need at this time.

Andy Blozinski
04-07-2013, 20:48
They are $4 for a pair.

Dave, I think Andrea is writing some rules for them. But for now, they are just visual reminders of when a ship fires it's guns.

Please tell them to hurry up on that and give us some details, even if it's preliminary rules. I'm trying to order a turn key package for convention demos. It's leaning towards me possibly needing (12) ships, so that would be a potential need for (12) smoke markers.I'm trying to determine what's important and what's not. After my wife freaks out at me blowing the huge wad of cash on more toys, it might be difficult for me after the fact to tell her "But hun, I've realized I didn't spend enough and I really need to buy this other stuff too."

The Barrelman
04-07-2013, 22:48
Hope we can get a gander at these cool accessories that will enhance our game's visuals. Do they sit on the base or attach to the model like the Wings markers to the pegs?

:question:

RichardPF
04-07-2013, 22:51
Back up to 881!!! :beer:

The Barrelman
04-07-2013, 22:57
Back up to 881!!! :beer:

So all current goals unlocked for all available levels. This is a good sign.

7eat51
04-07-2013, 23:38
With a week left, if Ares wants to see current backers increase pledges, they need to rollout another stretch goal quickly. I wonder, though, how aggressive they will be now given the multiples the company has reached of its original target.

I would like to see more info: picture of mat - even if a drawing - to better understand the grid overlay, fuller explanations of rules accompanying some of the stretch goals, etc.

Berthier
04-08-2013, 03:15
New stretch goal is hours away according to latest from Ares..max's out at 250K. The world will hold it's breathe...(name that quote!)

Sea Gull
04-08-2013, 03:18
Also maxing out at 1,000 backers so interested to see what it will be.

Berthier
04-08-2013, 05:18
ho hum, the new stretch goals are basically offering more of the same:cry:

Gaz67
04-08-2013, 05:20
It'll be interesting to see what the final total's are going to be, 1000 backers and $250,000 looks a long way away.

Sea Gull
04-08-2013, 06:52
But that's the one based on the backers isn't it. My reading of the announcement is that there'll also be a $ based stretch goal. I just hope my reading is correct. :erk:

Beowulf03809
04-08-2013, 07:52
I like the "number of people" goals as boosts for providing existing bonuses to a broader audience since width (number of players) is as critical as depth (amount of individual contributions) if not more so to the long term success. But I do hope for one more dollar-oriented stretch goal.

The Barrelman
04-08-2013, 07:56
While the extras and upgrade for the pledge levels are great, I do not see reaching 1000 backers or 250k as possible at this time.

Cmmdre
04-08-2013, 08:04
More smoke markers and counters hmmmm....

The Royal Hajj
04-08-2013, 08:07
Boss, they're gonna be in either the Ares or AA catalog after the KS is done, right? I'm at the Something's Gotta Give point and trying to decide what I can safely defer to afford the Commodore upgrade.

They will be offered through AA for sure.


Please tell them to hurry up on that and give us some details, even if it's preliminary rules. I'm trying to order a turn key package for convention demos. It's leaning towards me possibly needing (12) ships, so that would be a potential need for (12) smoke markers.I'm trying to determine what's important and what's not. After my wife freaks out at me blowing the huge wad of cash on more toys, it might be difficult for me after the fact to tell her "But hun, I've realized I didn't spend enough and I really need to buy this other stuff too."

I think you would be safe getting 4 pairs to begain with. Not every ship is going to be firing on the same turn, so I don't see a need for 1 or 2 per ship (even if that would mean more sells for me).


Hope we can get a gander at these cool accessories that will enhance our game's visuals. Do they sit on the base or attach to the model like the Wings markers to the pegs?

The smoke clouds lay either on the base or on the mat next to the ship (depends on the size of future ships).

Berthier
04-08-2013, 08:19
Further goals announced scenario book looks interesting! Oh and achievable.

Beowulf03809
04-08-2013, 08:26
I like the look of the bags but I'm really interested in the Scenario book. It would be really nice to have some official baseline scenarios for events and also as a guide for developing our own.

Sea Gull
04-08-2013, 09:17
Now those stretch goals are really interesting. Clever of Ares not to bow to pressure and promise stuff they couldn't deliver in time and had no idea of the costs on. A sensible approach in my opinion.

It will be interesting to see if these goals give the existing backers, or those still on the fence, the push the project needs to reach them.

David Manley
04-08-2013, 09:30
From a purely personal perspective only the prospect of additional counters excites me (smoke markers are not a problem for me and I have scenarios coming out of my ears thanks to copies of the Naval chronicle and a well-stocked library of factual and historical fiction). However, I recognise I'm in the minority - the smoke markers should make a great visual aide memoire and I think the scenarios book in particular will be of immense benefit to a great many players. Whilst it would have been nice to see another ship or two the practicalities of life and production meant that was never a realistic prospect.

RichardPF
04-08-2013, 19:03
Keith,

Are these bags coming from you?

3337

The Royal Hajj
04-08-2013, 19:35
Bruce, Ares is looking at bags from me and from a Chinese manufacture as a back up cost concerns. That mock up did not come from me... in fact, they have never given me the logo or any artwork they might want on it. So, in the end, I'm not sure if the bags will be made by me or not.

Coog
04-08-2013, 20:11
Keith, if you make bags and sell them through AA, I'll buy them over some made in China and believe others also would. I'm sure the quality would be far superior and worth the price even if they cost a little more.

Cmmdre
04-08-2013, 20:13
Keith, if you make bags and sell them through AA, I'll buy them over some made in China and believe others also would. I'm sure the quality would be far superior and worth the price even if they cost a little more.

I am 100% behind buying American when possible. Keith you and your family have my vote.

RichardPF
04-08-2013, 20:20
Bruce, Ares is looking at bags from me and from a Chinese manufacture as a back up cost concerns. That mock up did not come from me... in fact, they have never given me the logo or any artwork they might want on it. So, in the end, I'm not sure if the bags will be made by me or not.

If Ares offers these bags for sale after the KS, would that preclude you (contractually or er, politically) from offering some nicer ones?

The Royal Hajj
04-08-2013, 21:02
Thanks for the show of support guys. I know the bags I might offer will cost more... but that's because each would be hand made by someone that we actually know by their first name. lol In fact, if we end up doing the KS bags (which I don't believe we will), the bags will most likely be sewn up by a group of Amish ladies that work for my parents when the volume is high enough. You'd be hard pressed to get more "back in the Age of Sails" then that!

My current plans are to still offer some type of bags even if Ares does the KS bags via China and/or offers them as a regular product after the KS. Either way, I'd have to produce a higher standard of bag to make it worth while... so most likely leather bags for the discerning player. If Ares does the bags, I would not be able to offer mine as official accessories and as such, they could not bare the Sails of Glory name or logo. That could effect desirability enough to make them not worth while doing except on a custom order bases.

I would like to point out that if Ares does the bags, I in no way take that in ill effect. It's a business decision and if all the goals are met, we are talking about 3,355 bags... before any add on bags are purchased by backers. So, saving even a little per bag adds up quickly.

Andy Blozinski
04-08-2013, 21:32
I don't know how the letters for all the damage chits works yet, but I would actually prefer a mix of bags and rigid wall containers. For the common things like A & B, I'd want bowls or something like that. Easy effective and quick. When players start pulling crazy crap like grape shot, it would make the moment more special to pull out a cool looking bag to differentiate the awesomeness that they just rake grape-shotted somebody.

7eat51
04-08-2013, 22:55
I echo David's comment about scenarios. Given the wealth of fiction and historical engagements at our disposal, the creativity of members here, and the ease with which we can produce pdfs, it is not too exciting of a stretch goal for me. Personally, additional tangible game aids are more attractive.

Given the relatively free cost of creating pdfs, I think Ares would have done well to have simply provided the scenario book as a thank you.

Based on other conversations on this site over the past day or so, I think enhanced ship mats that would help secure the chits and facilitate play based on maneuver card placement, etc. would be a welcome accessory.

Cmmdre
04-08-2013, 23:27
I echo David's comment about scenarios. Given the wealth of fiction and historical engagements at our disposal, the creativity of members here, and the ease with which we can produce pdfs, it is not too exciting of a stretch goal for me. Personally, additional tangible game aids are more attractive.

Given the relatively free cost of creating pdfs, I think Ares would have done well to have simply provided the scenario book as a thank you.

Based on other conversations on this site over the past day or so, I think enhanced ship mats that would help secure the chits and facilitate play based on maneuver card placement, etc. would be a welcome accessory.
I agree with Eric about the PDF scenarios and it being more of a thank you for the support. I would rather have something like an exclusive mat printed for KS backers only, unique from mats that will be for sale at a later date. Printing something on vinyl on short notice is pretty damn easy. This way everyone will be happy.

David Manley
04-09-2013, 00:20
I am 100% behind buying American when possible.

Says the chap buying an Italian game, made in China, about British and French ships :)

<ducks!!!>

Sea Gull
04-09-2013, 02:38
Says the chap buying an Italian game, made in China, about British and French ships :)

<ducks!!!>
:happy::smack:
:takecover::shootright::shootleft::cannonboom::cannon::pistole::swordright::swordleft:

The Royal Hajj
04-09-2013, 06:08
I agree with Eric about the PDF scenarios and it being more of a thank you for the support. I would rather have something like an exclusive mat printed for KS backers only, unique from mats that will be for sale at a later date. Printing something on vinyl on short notice is pretty damn easy. This way everyone will be happy.

Well, if you wanted a cheap (compared to the official mouse pad style mats), that would be an easy goal. I however would not value that as it would not fit in with the other mats at all.


Says the chap buying an Italian game, made in China, about British and French ships :)

<ducks!!!>

Man, talk about no warning shot across the bow!! Thanks for the laugh this morning David. Now, :swordright:

The Royal Hajj
04-09-2013, 06:11
Based on other conversations on this site over the past day or so, I think enhanced ship mats that would help secure the chits and facilitate play based on maneuver card placement, etc. would be a welcome accessory.

The "advanced" ship mats have been dropped from the possible stretch goals do to pricing. I was always skeptical anyways due to their size and the amount of engraving that has to go into them. I will still be doing them as part of my accessory line still however.

Beowulf03809
04-09-2013, 06:44
I understand the sentiments on the PDF scenarios and agree it could have made a great 'thankyou', but consider also Ares side of things. They are down to the last week or so, have a lot of production demands already in the pipe and are probably still surprised they burned through their major goal plans as early as they did. I have to imagine it's hard to come up with things at this point that are interesting, achievable and affordable. If something costs too much then it will defeat some of the value of the KS. If something is not interesting then it won't add to the momentum. If something is not achievable it will leave a destructive taste in the mouths of the consumers.

Not trying to let them off the hook here. I love scenario making myself and am mostly interested in the scenario book as an initial guideline and reference. My experience though is that the general population likes to consume scenarios more than produce them though (history/game lovers here probably don't fall much into that category though). It would be great if they just offered it out to all as a thank you, but if they are needing a little something sweet right now this may be the best they can do at this point.

Berthier
04-09-2013, 07:22
Well scenario books are very popular. Witness the ASL (advanced squad leader) system than has hundreds and hundreds of them and people still buy more. ASL is a system that models tactical battles in WW2, pick up any book on any campaign and you could develop a working scenarios with minimal work and time but the majority of owners never do this, they prefer ready made off the shelf.

Remember, those of us on SOG at present, particularly those who have been here for over a year waiting, probably do not represent the "typical" KS investor to SOG. Of the 900+ uptakers a fair proportion of them have knowledge of the Age of Sail limited to movie and TV and perhaps a little reading and a lot of pirates. Their expectation and enjoyment of the system is really what the marketing needs to be aimed at, thus scenario books etc, they are the ones who will make or break the game as they will always be the largest group of owners. The aficionados like me and many of you, who love naval history and this period in particular, will always be in the minority but can still bring many of the others along on the ride with us and introduce them to this wonderful period.

The Anchorage provides an entry to the history of the Age of Sail as much as SOG does to wargaming it. I think we need to be mindful we probably aren't typical!

I'm with many of you, the stretch goals of smoke and bags doesn't entice me but I can see how it would others and if it does indeed entice, then we will all benefit in the long run.

Excuse me now while I climb down from my high horse....:hatsoff:

Cmmdre
04-09-2013, 08:06
Says the chap buying an Italian game, made in China, about British and French ships :)

<ducks!!!>
I had thought of that as I wrote those words but at this time there is no game maker in the US putting together such games that I know of. With that said my nationalistic views comes from a working class background where I have seen family and friends lose a great deal they had gained solely for profit so others could gain. I try to support locals when I can.

In answer to the comment Keith followed up with, I wasn't thinking cheap just a product that doesn't involve much past the artist or designers rendition. A file on a computer, a few clicks of the mouse and the the presses are rolling. Quality need not fall by the wayside.

And finally to Lawrence I understand the crew at Ares are going 100 miles per hour with their hair on fire at this time. I mean what a rush for the 700 times their original stated goal outpouring. I could easily imagine them being just slightly overwhelmed with this huge support they have gotten. Also, I am very satisfied to date with all the goodies they have provided. I did not mean to sound greedy or anything. I just happened to agree with a statement that sounded correct to me.

7eat51
04-09-2013, 08:10
I will still be doing them as part of my accessory line still however.

I am glad to know this. As much as I like the Aerodrome's version, I think for SoG, given the chits and amount of info on the card, enhanced ship mats are more than aesthetic upgrades; they could provide an answer to a potential problem. I look forward to seeing what you will design.

Lawrence and Daniel, I think you raise valid points. I think Ares missed a great marketing opportunity, however.. They could have posted scenarios on their website, and by doing so, showed that SoG is a game that comes with a lot of support. Ares could have run a contest for scenario generation and had members of the Anchorage - I acknowledge the comment about us being outliers - do the scenario generation.

Cmmdre
04-09-2013, 08:13
Well scenario books are very popular. Witness the ASL (advanced squad leader) system than has hundreds and hundreds of them and people still buy more. ASL is a system that models tactical battles in WW2, pick up any book on any campaign and you could develop a working scenarios with minimal work and time but the majority of owners never do this, they prefer ready made off the shelf.

Remember, those of us on SOG at present, particularly those who have been here for over a year waiting, probably do not represent the "typical" KS investor to SOG. Of the 900+ uptakers a fair proportion of them have knowledge of the Age of Sail limited to movie and TV and perhaps a little reading and a lot of pirates. Their expectation and enjoyment of the system is really what the marketing needs to be aimed at, thus scenario books etc, they are the ones who will make or break the game as they will always be the largest group of owners. The aficionados like me and many of you, who love naval history and this period in particular, will always be in the minority but can still bring many of the others along on the ride with us and introduce them to this wonderful period.

The Anchorage provides an entry to the history of the Age of Sail as much as SOG does to wargaming it. I think we need to be mindful we probably aren't typical!

I'm with many of you, the stretch goals of smoke and bags doesn't entice me but I can see how it would others and if it does indeed entice, then we will all benefit in the long run.

Excuse me now while I climb down from my high horse....:hatsoff:
I agree with you Daniel that this site is not typical. I have looked for something like this for a long time and am very happy I have arrived. Understandably there are plenty of people who would like the scenario booklet, myself included. I just happened to agree with 7eats51 Eric that it would be a nice way to way to thank the hundreds of supporters that have rallied around their great idea.

Cmmdre
04-09-2013, 08:15
I am glad to know this. As much as I like the Aerodrome's version, I think for SoG, given the chits and amount of info on the card, enhanced ship mats are more than aesthetic upgrades; they could provide an answer to a potential problem. I look forward to seeing what you will design.

Lawrence and Daniel, I think you raise valid points. I think Ares missed a great marketing opportunity, however.. They could have posted scenarios on their website, and by doing so, showed that SoG is a game that comes with a lot of support. Ares could have run a contest for scenario generation and had members of the Anchorage - I acknowledge the comment about us being outliers - do the scenario generation.

That is a good idea for Ares to run a contest for scenarios.

Gaz67
04-09-2013, 08:34
Is it August yet?

Beowulf03809
04-09-2013, 10:30
I too wish a free scenario PDF 'thank you' was out there. There's not much to it. And maybe a printed version with basic soft-bound cover could have been the stretch goal?

RichardPF
04-09-2013, 11:31
I am glad to know this. As much as I like the Aerodrome's version, I think for SoG, given the chits and amount of info on the card, enhanced ship mats are more than aesthetic upgrades; they could provide an answer to a potential problem. I look forward to seeing what you will design.

Lawrence and Daniel, I think you raise valid points. I think Ares missed a great marketing opportunity, however.. They could have posted scenarios on their website, and by doing so, showed that SoG is a game that comes with a lot of support. Ares could have run a contest for scenario generation and had members of the Anchorage - I acknowledge the comment about us being outliers - do the scenario generation.

While the identification of the missed marketing opportunity of not publishing some scenarios during the KS might be a 20/20 hindsight thing, I'm wondering if there might be another reason.

Reading between the lines of some of the KS Updates, I would wonder if Ares is even now still finalizing some of the rules.
From the scenarios in Wings, I would think that these would all need to be in place for a SGN scenario document to be published.

7eat51
04-09-2013, 13:02
While the identification of the missed marketing opportunity of not publishing some scenarios during the KS might be a 20/20 hindsight thing, I'm wondering if there might be another reason.

Reading between the lines of some of the KS Updates, I would wonder if Ares is even now still finalizing some of the rules.
From the scenarios in Wings, I would think that these would all need to be in place for a SGN scenario document to be published.

I think you are correct about solidifying rules. As for the timing of scenario release, I was thinking of post KS, i.e. at the time of the game's release. As for our contributing, that would be post release once we have the game in-hand.

The Royal Hajj
04-09-2013, 14:51
Don't rule out some free scenarios later on. Under Nexus, there were some free add-ons released for Wings on their website. Most of the Nexus people created Ares, so that line of thinking could still be there.

And as a thank you from Ares, there is something in the works for you Anchorage members. It's not a physical item that you will receive, but a way to directly effect a future product. It's going to be a chance for your voice to be herd and acted upon. We should be releasing more info here very soon!

Beowulf03809
04-09-2013, 14:52
And as a thank you from Ares, there is something in the works for you Anchorage members. It's not a physical item that you will receive, but a way to directly effect a future product. It's going to be a chance for your voice to be herd and acted upon. We should be releasing more info here very soon!

Name an upcoming ship after each of us?

The Royal Hajj
04-09-2013, 15:08
Humm, the HMS Royal Hajj .... now I like the sound of that!

csadn
04-09-2013, 15:24
Name an upcoming ship after each of us?

Not one for me, I fear -- I don't think they'd be able to sell a ship named "HMS _A**hole_".... ;)

7eat51
04-09-2013, 15:46
Not one for me, I fear -- I don't think they'd be able to sell a ship named "HMS _A**hole_".... ;)

I thought various navies did name ships after political figures?

Diamondback
04-09-2013, 15:55
For some reason, I do like the sound of a heavy frigate flying the Republic of Texas flag sharing a name with the serpent I was dubbed after... LOL

The Royal Hajj
04-09-2013, 16:29
Perhaps one of the contest I will run will be painting up your namesake ship!

Wargamer
04-09-2013, 19:18
Perhaps one of the contest I will run will be painting up your namesake ship!

LOL or perhaps the winner gets to select a reasonable name instead :)

Cmmdre
04-09-2013, 19:29
Not one for me, I fear -- I don't think they'd be able to sell a ship named "HMS _A**hole_".... ;)
I think USS A**hole has a better ring to it.

I thought various navies did name ships after political figures?
Touch'e.

Andy Blozinski
04-09-2013, 20:22
Back to the subject at hand...
Will we get to see the smoke markers in the next few days? I have to now how much to up my pledge by Friday.

The Royal Hajj
04-10-2013, 12:38
The laser shop has corrected the issue and a new set was mailed out priority mail to me this morning. Hopefully I 'll have them by Friday to photograph and upload for everyone.

Sea Gull
04-10-2013, 14:26
The laser shop has corrected the issue and a new set was mailed out priority mail to me this morning. Hopefully I 'll have them by Friday to photograph and upload for everyone.

Excellent news, Keith.

Andy Blozinski
04-12-2013, 19:13
The laser shop has corrected the issue and a new set was mailed out priority mail to me this morning. Hopefully I 'll have them by Friday to photograph and upload for everyone.
So...uh...any news on this?

The Royal Hajj
04-13-2013, 16:49
Finally, some photos to show!

http://sailsofglory.org/images/SGN/Ares/SmokeClouds-1.jpg

http://sailsofglory.org/images/SGN/Ares/SmokeClouds-2.jpg

http://sailsofglory.org/images/SGN/Ares/SGNSmokeCloud.jpg

These show the engraved details colored in with a black crayon (the preferred method). They will ship to everyone with out the coloring so that you can do with them as you like. For those of you have seen my painted flame and smoke markers for Wings, you know that those of you that are inclined to can easily paint these up to look even better.

Cmmdre
04-13-2013, 17:00
:thumbsup: Those are very nice thank yous from Ares. It will be fun laying them out on my table. :salute:

Beowulf03809
04-13-2013, 19:29
Cool. I'll probably use cotton smoke myself but these markers will be excellent for travelling with the game as well as sharing.

The Royal Hajj
04-13-2013, 19:58
Cool. I'll probably use cotton smoke myself but these markers will be excellent for travelling with the game as well as sharing.

For those that want to use cotton, these will also make great bases for that. Very sturdy and weighted so they don't get knocked around.

7eat51
04-13-2013, 21:25
I'm interested in seeing how others have created or will create different visuals such as smoke, fire, etc. I think I will use these as bases for cotton or some such substance because I would like something taller given the height of the ship base and the distance from the edge of the base to the guns.

The Royal Hajj
04-13-2013, 21:39
I'm interested in seeing how others have created or will create different visuals such as smoke, fire, etc. I think I will use these as bases for cotton or some such substance because I would like something taller given the height of the ship base and the distance from the edge of the base to the guns.

One thing to keep in mind about adding height to your smoke... just because you have fired and have a smoke cloud out there, does not mean another ship will not be shooting at you. If your smoke is too tall, it could interfere with checking range with the Combat Ruler.

7eat51
04-13-2013, 21:47
One thing to keep in mind about adding height to your smoke... just because you have fired and have a smoke cloud out there, does not mean another ship will not be shooting at you. If your smoke is too tall, it could interfere with checking range with the Combat Ruler.

Good point.

When I look at the picture, however, it looks like the ship is flying among clouds as opposed to smoke from the ship's firing. This is why I like your suggestion of using these counters as bases. It will be nice once the game is in-hand to workout such details.

Andy Blozinski
04-13-2013, 22:12
I was visualizing these as being something on a stand with a slight elevation, so my my initial reaction was "that's it?". But...it grew on me really fast, then I saw it next to the ship and it looks pretty cool. It really does need the black lines. By crayon, do you mean the wax type, or did you use something else?
I'm definitely getting an extra pair of these along with the (4) I get at Lt level. I might get more later, but this will be a good start.

The Royal Hajj
04-14-2013, 08:19
Yep, the wax type for kids.

Gaz67
04-14-2013, 08:29
By crayon, do you mean the wax type

Cool, I'm allowed those kind :embarass:

pward
04-19-2013, 13:54
I'm interested in seeing how others have created or will create different visuals such as smoke, fire, etc. I think I will use these as bases for cotton or some such substance because I would like something taller given the height of the ship base and the distance from the edge of the base to the guns.

I was definitely planning on trying my hand at some smoke markers... two types, the first would be smoke made to look like it is part of cannon fire (to use for eye candy and indicate that a ship has fired), and second would be the smoke that lingers about creating visual problems.