My 3D Printer has arrived - But I am out of town! [Archive]

RichardPF

03-01-2013, 18:48

So my work week has come to an end (more or less) and I finally got a chance to unpack the 3D printer.
This is the Second generation Cube printer from 3D Systems, a company that seems to be taking over the 3D printer market through both growth and acquisition.

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The box as it arrived in the shipping box sitting on a table in my garage.

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Top of the box open...

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The box contained the printer and three extra spools of plastic.
When you buy the printer there is a special deal that 3D Systems offers at the time of purchase for three extra spools of plastic and some object designer software. It was really too good an add on deal for me to pass up.
Total price for the printer, extra plastic & software deal, and shipping to Arizona was just under $1,600.

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After releasing a couple of clips, the top of the box lifts off to reveal the printer.
It is very well packed.

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When you lift the printer out of the box, you will find a lower box section full of goodies.
The first item that you remove is the base where the 3D objects come to life (on the left sitting on the plastic spool boxes).
But wait! There's more...

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The remaining contents of the bottom of the box include a USB cable, a USB thumb drive (you can pass object files to the printer using either method or by WiFi), a power supply and cord, another spool of line (neon green), a small bottle of goop that you use to prep the base so the 3D model stays put while it is being built, an interesting tool of some kind, and a manual. The printer also comes with 25 credits to download object files from the 3D Systems library.

OK, that's about it for now. While the manual is more like a pamphlet, I am someone who does RTFM.
More to come.

7eat51

03-01-2013, 21:04

I am pretty curious to see how this works. If you don't mind sharing, it would be interesting to see the process in play as well as the final output. Thanks for the pics.

Diamondback

03-01-2013, 21:41

Nice! I've been looking into stereolithography as an aid to both my scale-modeling and gunsmithing hobbies... like a new rotor hub for a speculative "CH-53E Super Stallion On Steroids" or new weapons pylons for an up-armed "Super Prowler" conversion of an EA-6B.

If you can find the lines diagrams, this might be JUST the ticket for some of the real pain-in-the-arse one-of-a-kind ships that fill key niches in the Orders of Battle for the great engagements, but as oddballs are likely to go without official Ares sculpts. :)

Berthier

03-01-2013, 21:50

Cant wait to see it in action. I have numerous 3d aircraft from Shapeways, so I think the technology to do hulls will be quite successful, the masts and sails may need to be done separately on a model like sprue.

RichardPF

03-02-2013, 12:17

So Now I have read the instruction manual/pamphlet and am ready to continue...

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Out of the box, the Cube printer is close to completely assembled and ready to go.
3D Systems is really trying to make this a consumer friendly product.
The platform on which the 3D objects will be born is a thick piece of glass that is frosted on one side.
The glass platform comes packed in the bottom of the Cube box in a very serious foam enclosure to keep it safe (shown in an earlier photo).
There is a plastic rectangle with a clipped corner attached to the non frosted side of the glass.

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The key is placed in a matching receptacle on the machine. The shape of the key makes attachment mistake proof.

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There are no mechanical fasteners, the glass plate stays in place through gravity and magnetism.

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The next step is to bring up the 3D Systems website and register your cube.
http://www.cubify.com/cube/

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The first step is to create an account and login.

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Once logged in, select Activate My Cube.

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A page where you will enter your cube serial number is displayed.

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You will need the serial number of the cube to activate it.
It is found on the back next to the power connection.
(The cube does not need to be powered up just yet, though the instructions do say to do it now)

RichardPF

03-02-2013, 12:40

And the beat goes on...

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Once you have entered your cube serial number you will be given an activation code for your printer (not 0000).
This page also includes links to download the Cube software (either Windows or MAC), the 25 free object files, and another users guide/manual

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The Cube software for Windows includes exe and msi files.

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The 25 object files (.creation extension)

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And a 60 page users guide/manual

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The manual is a pdf file which could be read from the screen but I chose to print it out.

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You may have noticed in the background of some of these images that while my garage does not contain any cars, it does include a rather oversized laser printer (Canon imageRUNNER ADVANCE 8085)

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Some of the information duplicates what is in the manual/pamphlet that came with the cube, but it is a good bit more substantial.
So now I am back in RTFM mode.

More to come.

Berthier

03-02-2013, 19:02

Bruce, your garage is better equipped than most offices I've seen!

Sea Gull

03-04-2013, 04:01

I think most of us here are as eager as you are to see the results Bruce. The wait for the next installment is almost too much. :D

RichardPF

03-04-2013, 07:40

I think most of us here are as eager as you are to see the results Bruce. The wait for the next installment is almost too much. :D

Sorry for the delay in posting the next update; it's that annoying work thing getting in the way again!

Sea Gull

03-04-2013, 09:39

Sorry for the delay in posting the next update; it's that annoying work thing getting in the way again!

Ahh. I don't have to worry about that for a few weeks, or even months, yet. :o

Skullduggery

03-04-2013, 09:53

Very nice. I can't wait to see how it prints for you. I wish I had your patience and skill.

RichardPF

03-14-2013, 23:32

I am finally getting back to working with my 3D printer and continuing to work on something of my own design for it to print.

I will be posting more 3D Printer updates as soon as I can select the pictures and get them in order. In the meantime, I have planked the 3D hull.

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RichardPF

03-15-2013, 01:44

Picking up the 3D Printer setup and first operation story from a week or so ago...

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The next step is to install the software that lets you build files for and talk to the Cube printer.
The install setup was quite conventional.

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And went off without a hitch.

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The software interface is a little odd, but fairly easy to master.
The colors are a little funky, but there are no menus to deal with.

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The Colors button opens a window that lets you change many of the colors in the system.
I changed the background to white.

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Next you import a file to print.
Most 3D printers accept files with a .stl extension (Stereolithography)
I will talk morfe about that when I describe building objects from your own designs.
The cube software also accepts files with a .creation extension.
That is the format of the objects you get with the cube.

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The virtual object will be imported and placed in the view.
The print space is about 5 inches on each side.
It is generally best if the objects are positioned and sized before they are brought into the Cube software but they can be reconfigured here.
I will start with that in the next installment (which should be Friday)

RichardPF

03-15-2013, 02:37

When we left our story, I was in the middle of describing the functions of the 3D Printer software.
It is probably best that you configure the object to be printed in another software package,
but the cube software does have some configuration capability.

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At the top center of the screen is a button that lets you orient and scale the object.
Clicking this button opens a control window that lets you set these parameters.
There are three sections (window/overlays) to this control.
The first lets you rotate the object to be printed along any axis using either the dials or the text entry boxes at the bottom.

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The second screen lets you translate the object around the base.
While you would probably want to position a single object in the center of the base, the printer can (space permitting) print multiple objects.
This control lets you arrange the objects in the print space.

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The last control screen lets you scale the object withing the bounds of the print space.

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The controls on the bottom left let you view the object from set viewing positions.
You can also click and drag in the window to free form rotate the view.
These controls rotate the view, not the object.

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The settings button lets you set the system to print an object either solid, hollow, or with internal bracing (strong) which is between the two.
You can also select the type of filament to be used (ABS or PLA plastic), which generation cube you have (mine is 2nd gen).
You can also set the system to create Rafts and Supports.

Rafts are a lattice base that you can create as a foundation for building your model. One of the problems with 3D printing is getting the object to hold fast to the base so that the object builds correctly. Rafts help that happen. Once the object is complete, the rafts can be detatched.

Another problem with 3D printing is that a structure must be placed on something. At the base this is not a problem, but higher up on the model it is. Creating the horizontal top of a window opening is problematic. When you turn on supports, the system automatically adds easily detachable support structures to the object so that horizontal and near horizontal structure sections can be built.

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When the object has been configured as you want, select the build icon/button at the top of the screen.
The system will prompt you for a name and a location for this file.
The file will be created with a .cube extension.
This is the native format for the cube printer.

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The file will be configured to your settings and saved.
Rafts and supports will be added is requested.
The software will create a build plan for the object.
Finally, the software will let you know how long it will take the cube to run the job and print the object.
3D printing takes some time. The finer resolution and the bigger the object the more time.
Start Trek replicators these are not.
The 23rd century this is not (that almost sounded a bit Yoda-ish).

More to come...

Sea Gull

03-15-2013, 07:45

Hey Yoda (;)) this is looking good and is very informative. Like you looking to see the first object produced.

7eat51

03-15-2013, 08:58

Bruce, this is very informative. I know everyone who is following these posts is dreaming of you printing ships and showing us your work.

When you actually set the printer for a job, would it be possible to film it in action?

Very cool stuff.

Green flash

03-15-2013, 09:58

This is GREAT,always wondered how these work,keep them coming and thanks

BonhommeRichard

03-15-2013, 10:18

very informative thanks i want one now lol

RichardPF

03-15-2013, 11:18

Now that the object file is ready to print, the next thing to do is to send the file to the 3D Printer.
With the Cube, this can be done in two ways. The most interesting is through a Wi Fi connection.

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With the Cube powered up, if you open the list of Wi Fi connections available, you will find a listing for the cube.
Select it and connect.

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Back in the Cube software, click the Configure button/icon.

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A list of available connections will appear.
(At the 3D Systems office, this list must be interesting!)

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Select the connection you want and click the connect button.

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The software will test the connection and report the results.

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We now have a connection to the printer and at least one .cube file ready to print.
Press the Print button in the upper right of the interface screen.
(The alternative would be to save the file to a USB thumb drive, to do that you would press the save button at the bottom of the screen.)

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After pressing the Print button (or the Save button), a window opens where you navigate to the file you wish to print.
In our case, that file is called RookPLA.cube. Select it and press the Open button.

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And we're off! The software sends the file to the printer to be printed.
That process will be detailed in the next update.

RichardPF

03-15-2013, 13:04

In the last installment, we set up the file in the software and sent it to the 3D printer through the Wi Fi Connection.
If the printer is ready to go, the object will start printing now.
There are, however, a few last setup items that you need to do to the printer every now and then.
Before we see the object start printing, let's look at them.

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It is important that the head of the printer be at the right height.
The cube setup (and the setup for most other 3D printers of this type)
Say to do this by setting the head just more than a regular thickness sheet of paper distance from the print surface.
Some other docs I have seen recommend using two paper thicknesses.
In actual distance, 0.1mm to 0.15mm seems about where this lands.

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The filament for the cube line of printers comes in cartridges.
The cartridge has a setscrew with a red plastic head that keeps the spool from unraveling inside the cartridge.

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Before you load the cartridge, you remove this setcrew.
Save this screw. If you change print colors you replace the screw in the cartridge that you remove.

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The cartridge also has a contact at the bottom that lets it communicate with the cube.
The main function of this is to let the cube know which type of filament (ABS or PLA) is in the cartridge.
The type of filament used will change set the way the print head functions so that it is optimized for that material.

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The cartridge is placed into a receptacle in the Cube.
The filament is threaded through a hollow plastic tube and into the top of the print head.

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Once the cartridge has been installed, the cube draws the filament into the head, melts it, and extrudes it out the bottom in a very fine semi liquid thread.
When extruded, the thread is very hot.

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The filament will extrude for about a foot.

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Before the object is printed, the glass plate is coated with the special sticky material that comes with the cube.
This helps hold the object in place as it is being built.

THIS IS THE POINT AT WHICH YOU DIRECT THE SOFTWARE TO SEND THE ITEM TO THE CUBE TO BE PRINTED
OR, USE THE TOUCH PANEL ON THE CUBE TO SELECT THE ITEM TO BE PRINTED FROM A USB THUMB DRIVE

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The head will move to a position close to the printing surface and do final heat regulation.

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At long last our object starts printing.
Remember the software calculated the time to print this object as about an hour and a half.

The object printing will continue (and conclude) in the next update...

RichardPF

03-15-2013, 13:50

In this installment the 3D object finally appears.
This has not all gone as cleanly as possible.
You may notice that the nice cover is no longer on the print head.
Also, the filament is now white.
More on that later...

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The object builds from the bottom up.
It does this in repeated steps by setting down a layer of structure and then lowering the build platform a fraction of a milimeter.
At this point, the inner structure of the "Strong" configuration (half way between hollow and solid) is visible.

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The object build is mezmorizing.
The low detail in this image is more a result of the flash than the object.

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As the object build continues, the stone block surface structure of the rook becomes apparent.
Creating a completely smooth surface with this type of printer is really not possible.
The best you will get is a woven cloth type look so it is best to build objects that have some surface texture anyway.

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A slightly different angle that shows the surface detail a bit better as the object builds.
Notice that the top of the doorway opening is arched. This is not just a coincidence but rather a design built to work around the elevated horizontal surface bottom limitation of this type of printer.

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Extending a surface out over empty space can be done to a limited degree without supports.
Think of this like stacking bricks. You can offset a higher course to a degree to create an arch or inverted pyramid type structure.

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Just about done.
The rook includes a double helix and spiral staircase on the inside as part of this single piece.
These are viewable through the windows.
It would be almost impossible to create an inner structure of this type any other way.

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When the print run finished, the build platform lowers away from the print head.
The cube display will tell you to wait while the system cools.
Notice the bit of filament still attached to the top of the rook.
This can be brushed away easily.

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The glue that is used to keep the object in place as it builds is water soluable.
The official way to remove the object is to place the object and build platform in warm water for a few minutes.
The object will then either float free or can be easily detacted.
The build platform is then cleaned of any residual glue to make it ready for the next run.

Placing the right amount of glue on the build platform is a learned skill.
It is actually easier to put too much on than too little.
It should also be done just before the object is built to get the right amount of tackiness.

In the next installment, I will talk about some of the dark side of 3D printing and what happened to the print head cover and why the filament changed color.

Berthier

03-15-2013, 19:04

Simply brilliant and clear explanation of the whole process, well done.

RichardPF

03-15-2013, 21:01

So an object has now been printed successfully.
Of the 25 object files tha come with the printer, I found the chess rook to be the most visually interesting.
That is part of the reason I used it for the initial tests.

The other is that it is a game object.

When you purchase the printer, you get an option to buy three additional filament containers in your choice of colors.
The ones that I selected were Red White and Blue (or Blue White and Red if you prefer).
The printer also comes with a container of neon green filament.

I tested printing with each of these with mixed results.

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The rook printed in each of the four colors.
The sparkly hilights are just an artfact of the camera flash reflection.

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Looking down on the blue rook, you can see the top of the spiral staircase emerging from the center of the object.
You can also see the result of printing a flat or smooth surface. While the surface will never be mistaken for an injection molded piece, the surface does actually seem to me to resemble decking.

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One other object that I printed was this tea cup.
I included this image because it demonstrates two things:
It shows the support structure that the software builds when it is asked to traverse a large horizoltal-ish span (inside and below the handle). This support structure is actually only slightly attached and can be readily removed. The detachment points can then be shaved/filed/sanded/whatever.
This object also gives a look at what you get from trying to model a smooth surface. The flash exagerates the surface detail a bit. In real life it does have a satiny woven material look to it.

Now for the Dark Side

All print runs did not go so well.

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A number of the attempts were not successful.
This was always reported by the cube as a filament flow error.
The run would abort and you would be left with a partial object.
Yes, the neon green filament was the main source of these errors though it did happen once with another color.
The cube comes with a piece of piano wire and instructions on how to clear the clogs that often happen when a fail of this type happens.
I found it far easier to clean the print head with the pretty cover off, and eventually just wound up leaving it off.

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Even the "successful" green run almost aborted due to filament flow issues(top of the base) and would have to be considered a fail.

All of this clogging and failing resulted in numerous emails and a call or two with the US based 3D Systems tech support folks.
In the end, they decided to send me another print head.

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The new print head, along with instructions for replacing the old head arrived today.
I have yet to swap the heads but will report from the far side of this change shortly.

Judging from the comments on the boards of various 3D printer models, filament flow problems are common in the 3D printer world and more common at the low cost printer end of the market.

If I am able to change the head and get the printer reliably operational, I will probably go ahead and buy another head just to have as a spare.

7eat51

03-15-2013, 22:18

Awesome. Absolutely awesome.

As for the tea cup, I thought the support was part of the design - towers somewhat Lord of the Rings-ish. Shows how much I know.

RichardPF

03-15-2013, 23:48

New printer head has been installed and the printer is chewing on a new project.

I will have a full update on that tomorrow.

In the meantime:

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Decks and spars added to 3D Model.

Berthier

03-16-2013, 03:03

Are you going to try to print this as a single item, or rather do a separate print run for the masts etc, maybe on a sprue?

Sea Gull

03-16-2013, 10:15

This is a fascinating tour of the 3D printer. Really looking forward to more episodes and to the time when you print a ship.

RichardPF

03-16-2013, 10:55

Are you going to try to print this as a single item, or rather do a separate print run for the masts etc, maybe on a sprue?

Thanks for the interest, comments, and other acknowledgements, I really appreciate it.

I'm sure that I will need to separate the ship into multiple pieces.

I will probably wind up doing a number of tests to see what detail level can be held and what is the best way to configure the parts.

I stil have sails, gunports and other hull detals, deck details, and a bit more to add.

I had origininally been thinking of one piece for the hull and one for each mast/sail group similar to how the white metal models are cast.

One tricky element that I really want to include in the printed model is the fighting top platform on each mast.
Since the fighting tops are at 90 degree angles to the line of the masts and sails, positioning the mast/sail structure on the build platform will be a challenge.
I have no idea how I will get that to work without splitting the ship model into a much larger number of parts.

RichardPF

03-16-2013, 11:03

This is a fascinating tour of the 3D printer. Really looking forward to more episodes and to the time when you print a ship.

Thanks!
I am too.
It is going to take a while for me to get to that point. The print head problem derailed things for a while but it looks like all is back on line now.

RichardPF

03-16-2013, 11:06

Awesome. Absolutely awesome.

As for the tea cup, I thought the support was part of the design - towers somewhat Lord of the Rings-ish. Shows how much I know.

Thanks!

The first object that I chose to build to test the new print head has a good deal more of that support structure going on.

It's kind of funny. The process takes an our or more to play out, and I know what the thing will look like in the end but it is still mezmorizing.

7eat51

03-16-2013, 11:40

It's kind of funny. The process takes an our or more to play out, and I know what the thing will look like in the end but it is still mezmorizing.

I can imagine. Looking at your in-process pics was pretty cool.

Concerning the chess piece, how hard, brittle, heavy is it? How much does it cost in terms of materials?

You have created a fascinating thread Bruce.

RichardPF

03-16-2013, 12:49

I can imagine. Looking at your in-process pics was pretty cool.

Concerning the chess piece, how hard, brittle, heavy is it? How much does it cost in terms of materials?

You have created a fascinating thread Bruce.

The Cube printers will print with both ABS and PLA plastic.
The plastic filament that I have been using is the PLA.

My understaning is that PLA holds detail better but is not as tough as the ABS.
The printed objects are quite hard, but do not seem to be anywhere near as brittle as resin cast objects.
As built, the objects are also extremely light.
I am sure that is in part due to the fact that I use the "strong" option when setting up the files for the parts I have created so far.
The strong options creates parts with the honeycomb inside structure.

My best guess, based on somewhat limited experience is that the material used for one of the rooks costs about two dollars.
The material for a ship model in the scale we are talking about might cost a bit more than that, but not a lot.
If you were trying to do this commercially, my guess is that the amortization of the equipment would be a significant cost factor.
You would likely want to use higher cost equipment and, as fast as this technology is moving, I expect that the economic life of a commercial grade 3D printer will be far less than the potential functional life.

Diamondback

03-16-2013, 19:06

RichardPF

03-16-2013, 20:16

Stupid question... will Cube's software convert a SketchUp .SKP into a .STL? The new eight-blade rotor hub I referred to above is a SketchUp file, mainly because I haven't learned solid-modeling yet. (AutoCAD/DraftSight and SketchUp I'm comfortable with, Solidworks scared the crap out of me and I uninstalled it.)

The quick answer is no, the Cube software does not accept or convert .SKP files.
Hunting around I did find some third party solutions that do this (or rather multiple step processes), but none of the ones I found appeared that stable.
If you have SketchUp Pro you can export to a number of file formats that are easier for the outside world to convert to .STL such as OBJ, FBX, and others.

You can also get a free 30 day license to 3D Studio Max which does export directly to .stl files and you may find more approachable given the software with which you are already familiar, though that would mean remodeling your object.

RichardPF

03-18-2013, 01:35

So I installed the new print head.
The instructions could have been a bit clearer, but the part was amazingly easy to swap.
The process, from start to finish with me triple checking everything took no more than 15 minutes.

As a first test, I went to the Cube site and downloaded one of the objects that they have available there.
There was one object that I found quite inetresting.
The design was such that it would need a significant amount of support structure and should be built using a raft.
It was also far larger than any object that I had printed so far.
I figured it would be a good example to post here - success or failure.

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So far so good!
The printer starts placing the filament on the glass...

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First cross hatch of raft complete.
The raft is an extra structure that you can add to the base to help it stay on the build surface.
3D Systems says that you can "get away" without adding a raft by using the glue, but with such a large object I wanted to be safe.

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Raft complete and the first layer of the base is added.

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Object base taking shape with the familiar honeycomb inside.
The base is round. The structures at the side of the base are part of the support structure. We will see lots more of that as the build continues.

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Base complete.
You can see the support structure attachment points at the sides of the base.
Attached in this way theoretically allows the supports to be broken (or cut) away more easily when the object is complete.

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As the build extends above the base, the support structure really kicks it up a notch.
The support structure now completely surrounds the top of the base.

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Substantially more object height complete.
Support structure continues on all sides.

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Object nearing completion.
It can now be seen what the support structures were supporting.

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Object complete.
The build ran without a hitch.
This build was about 5 hours.
I pushed the envelope a bit to test the new print head as this was the longest build and the largest object I have yet attempted.
I did not want to press my luck to the point of doing the first test of the new head with the neon green filament that proved so troublesome with the old head.
I'll save that test for a bit later.

In the next update I will remove the supports and reveal the object.

Berthier

03-18-2013, 01:57

So did you watch this for 5 hours...?:sleep:

7eat51

03-18-2013, 10:37

This is pretty cool. It is neat to see how it incorporates support structures. Looking forward to seeing finished product.

RichardPF

03-18-2013, 11:00

So did you watch this for 5 hours...?:sleep:

Actually, no.

I Just checked in on it every hour or so to make sure it was still building correctly and to take a picture to post here.

RichardPF

03-18-2013, 11:37

So I spent about 10 minutes removing the support structures.
To do this right, I would want to spend about another half hour or more trimming and sanding the attachment points to clean the structure up a bit more.

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Printed object with supports removed.
This example aslo shows you how a completely smooth and flat object surface of significant size would look on a printed object.
Printed objects that have surfaces like this are generally finished by painting and sanding.
Sometimes the painting is done with fairly standard paint, but sometimes it is done with cyanoacrylate (super glue).

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Size comparison between the Piston Cup model and the Rook

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The rooks have been popular items with the other instructors at the college.
I decided to further stress test the printer by building more "inventory" to replace those that I had created before (and subsequently given away).
Through all of this, the print head performed perfectly.
There was, however, one failure.

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Here is how a rook turns out when there was not enough glue on the build platform!

So I have ordered three more spools of PLA filament (in black, brown, and teal blue),
I have ordered another print head, just to have on hand as a backup,
and I have also orderer a bunch more of the special build platform glue!

I will be taking a deep breath and trying the neon green filament again soon.
Then hopefully it will be on to objects of my own design.

The Barrelman

03-18-2013, 11:56

Looks like that rook was caught in a transporter malfunction. What came back didn't live long...

RichardPF

03-18-2013, 13:04

Looks like that rook was caught in a transporter malfunction. What came back didn't live long...

fortunately.

OmegaLazarus

03-18-2013, 15:29

It was the same with me. When I saw Series 1 and 2 WWI Wings of War aircraft, with WWI aviation being one of my greatest interests, I had to have them. In trying to find news about future releases, I came upon the Aerodrome. After lurking there for a while I saw what a great bunch of people were on the site and joined up. When it came out that Sails of Glory, about Napoleonic era naval warfare...my other favorite subject, I couldn't believe it.

It was the exact same process with me! I am also watching this 3d documentary.

7eat51

03-18-2013, 15:56

Great stuff.

I imagine you would be able to make great fortresses and other shore accessories, and islands, and ...

As Japheth just stated, you are providing a very interesting 3d documentary.

RichardPF

03-18-2013, 20:25

I'm off on another business trip, but I was able to add gunports to the 3D model.
I threw a bit of color on the surfaces as well so the model wasn't just grey, but the gunports are modeled geometry.
I have started thinking in terms of what level of geometry detail will be accurately reproducable at this scale.
The muzzle diameter of a 24 pounder at 1:1000 scale will be about 0.3 mm.

2654

RichardPF

04-06-2013, 15:30

Operation of the 3D Printer is through a small touch pad on the lower front.
This is used effect all commands to the printer.
I thought I would wrap up this tour by demonstrating the use of the touch pad for the standard printer operations.

3083
The touch pad "home screen" includes choices to print a file or setup where you load/change filament.
I'll choose SETUP

3084
At the next screen, I will select LOAD CARTRIDGE and press the NEXT button.

3085
The system asks me if there is filament currently loaded in the system (which there usually is).
press the X in the lower left if NOr the check in the lower right if YES.
I press the check.

3086
The screen advises me to pull the plastic feed tube away from the prpint head.
This is not extremely necessary, but lets you better see what is going on.
What is really happening at this point is that the system is heating the print head to melt the filament that is inside the head so that it can be expelled.

3087
The filament is then fed by the head.
The melted filament is pushed out the bottom of the head by the unmelted filament above it.
Once the system deems the melted filament to be out, the feed reverses to back the unmelted filament up out of the head.

3088
Once the system deems that the unmelted filament is up and clear of the feed machanism,
the touch panel instructs the user to remove the filament from the head.

3089
The filament is extracted. The end of the filament should pull easily revealing a transition section to the filament that was melted and some feed transport marks on the side of the filament (too small to be seen).

3090
The system next instructs you to remove the filament cartridge from the printer.

3091
And admonishes you to recycle the filament that was ejected as part of the head clearing operation.
Printing generates a lot of this, but so far I have givin all of it away as souveniers.

3092
The final instruction of the filament removal process is to replace the setscrew in the side of the cartridge so that the filament does not unravel or become fouled in the cartridge.

In the next installment, we will load the new cartridge.

RichardPF

04-06-2013, 15:46

With the printer clear of filament, it is time to load a new cartridge.

3100
The touch panel advises you to remove the setscrew from the new cartridge.
This is pretty much a fail safe operation as the cartridge can not physically be installed in the printer with the set screw in place.
When finished, press the next button.

3101
The touch panel next instructs that the end of the filament from the cartridge be trimmed.
This is to remove the melted end of a previously extracted cartridge to present a clean filament end to the print head.
I usually do this at the time I remove the cartridge.
When finished, press the next button.

3102
The system instructs that the cartridge be installed in the receptacle on the left side of the machine.
Once the cartridge is detected, a NEXT button appears on the screen .
Push the button to proceed to the next step.

3103
Thread the filament through the long thin filament guide tube and press the NEXT button.

3104
Insert the filament into the machine.
The head will reach temperature and the melted filament will begin to flow.
If there is going to be a load problem, this is the most likely step for it to occur.

3105
Filament feeding into head.
You should extend the filament about 2 inches beyond the tube.
As the filament feeds into the head, this gap is drawn into the machine.
You can use the shrinking gap to monitor the uptake of the filament into the head.

3106
The system advises you to press the filament until the feed mechanism catches it.
This is generally not all that necessary and can be overdone causing filament load issues.

3107
The filament should begin to extrude from the bottom of the head.

3108
You are advised to recycle the extruded filament (more souveniers)

3109
And then advised that the loading operation is complete and that the printer is theoretically ready to produce a perfect printed part.

RichardPF

04-06-2013, 16:10

With the new filament cartridge loaded, we are ready to print an object!
While the system will print from a WiFi connection, it is far easier and stratght forward to print from an attached USB thumb drive.

3110
This time at the start screen, press the PRINT button.

3111
Click throught the files present on the thumb drive.
Files should be located at the drive root and not inside another directory.
When you find the file you want, click on the file name to select it.

3112
The build progress screen will appear.
On the left, the screen tells us that the object we have selected is 58.00 mm tall and that the printer is currently (or about to be) working on the bit of the object that is 0.00 mm up from the bottom of the object.
On the right, the screen tells us that this build will take 1 hour 31 minutes and that there are 1 hour 31 minutes to go in the build.
Should something go wrong with the build (and someone is around to notice), the stop sign button at the center of the screen can be pressed to abort the build.

3113
As the build progresses, the current build level value (top left) will increase in quarter millimeter increments until it reaches the full object height.
The time remaining value (top right) will decrease to zero.

3114
And the build goes on...

3115
It is fairly normal for the very first bit of plastic laid down to have a bit of a gap and possibly the first couple of centimeters not to seat right.
This is not too big a problem as long as the build rights itself quickly. You can always include a raft structure at the bottom of the build so that this start issue, if it happens, happens on a section designed to be discarded.

3116
If all goes well, the object will be completed.
The build platform will drop away from the print head and the printer noise (which sounds a lot like Jetsons sound effects) will stop.
The small notch at the bottom front can be sanded or filed if you wish.

3117
The touch panel will advise that the print has completed, but that will be obvious.

RichardPF

04-06-2013, 16:27

With this post I will wrap up the generic discussion of the 3D printer operation.

Operation of the new print head was running so smoothly that I decided to try printing with the dreaded neon green filament.

3128
The load went well...

3129
The start of the build was a bit shaky (as can be seen at the bottom front) but continued...

3130
But about 20 minutes or so into the build, the wheels came off.
At this point, the neon green filament cartridge has been retired.

3131
Along the way, I had also purchased three additional filament cartridges.
One each in black, brown, and teal blue.
All of these created successful builds.
The teal blue builds were of the shakiest quality.
That color was also the closest to the neon green.
With this small amount of data points, who knows if there is any actual correlation bewteen bright color filament and poorer print quality.

I deem that this brings to a close my initial 3D printer familiarization process.
It is time for me to move on to objects of my own design.

OmegaLazarus

04-08-2013, 11:04

Well done. I will be linking this for future reference.

Beowulf03809

04-08-2013, 12:06

Those things are just amazing. I wish I had an excuse (and funds!) to get one. Some day....

RichardPF

04-09-2013, 11:48

Those things are just amazing. I wish I had an excuse (and funds!) to get one. Some day....

It is an extravigance, but the prices are coming down rapidly.

I remember when I saw previews for the Macintosh computer for the first time in late 1983 (yeah that dates me a bit) and thinking "I have no practical use for this but I HAVE to have one".

I bought one the first day it was available for order (Jan 1984).

A year later Apple introduced the Laserwriter laser printer.
The Mac and the Laserwriter instantly became the preproduction heart of my family's printing and publishing business.

I believe that the Mac and Laswerwriter each retailed for $2495.
(and that's $2495 in 1984/1985 dollars)

I wasn't able to swing buying a 3D Printer when they first became available.
At that time they were 6 to 7 figures.

Now as the entry point has reached the range of a nice laptop I couldn't resist.
This had much the same feel as buying that original Mac.
When I bought it, it was not with some well thought out logical plan,
it was just too cool not to.

Beowulf03809

04-09-2013, 12:28

I hear you! Of course, when friends (technically their families) were jumping on Macs I was blissfully happy with my 8088 XT IBM clone, 10MB hard drive (oh baby!) and 2400b modem (one of the hottest in town among all the 300/1200 local users). I only had Mac envy when I saw one of my friends playing Autoduel.

Now...3D Printer Envy...that's a whole different thing and I have it bad.

7eat51

04-09-2013, 12:42

As someone who is pretty much on the tailing end of technology, having been called a Luddite on many occasions, I must admit that the thought of a 3D printer capable of making on-demand game pieces is pretty awesome. Of course by the time I learn how to use one, we'll have put a man on the moon.

Beowulf03809

04-09-2013, 12:45

Of course by the time I learn how to use one, we'll have put a man on the moon.

:hmmm:

OmegaLazarus

04-09-2013, 15:48

I must admit that the thought of a 3D printer capable of making on-demand game pieces is pretty awesome. Of course by the time I learn how to use one, we'll have put a man on the moon.

That is my balk point as well. The articles I have read definitely make it seem that producing the file needed to print that thing is not a layperson's endeavor. Whereas using a printer only required my typing skills with a few modifications for using ms word (not much if you are just typing up a simple document) instead of an electric typewriter. It seems that the skill set needed here in not inline with carpentry, but more engineering/drafting AND programming or graphic design (and I am a novice with illustrator).

7eat51

04-09-2013, 15:58

Japheth, you just gave me an idea. My wife studied engineering and computer science, worked in software and systems for 20 years, and now does graphic design. This is her birthday present. Of course, the only real use she will have for it is war-game minis.

We were at a friend's this weekend, and his daughter just made a small sailing ship via a 3D printer. Sue thought it was really cool. Thanks to Bruce, I knew more about the process than anyone at the table. Thank you Bruce! :hatsoff:

RichardPF

04-09-2013, 15:59

That is my balk point as well. The articles I have read definitely make it seem that producing the file needed to print that thing is not a layperson's endeavor. Whereas using a printer only required my typing skills with a few modifications for using ms word (not much if you are just typing up a simple document) instead of an electric typewriter. It seems that the skill set needed here in not inline with carpentry, but more engineering/drafting AND programming or graphic design (and I am a novice with illustrator).

Yes, mastering the 3D Modeling software is the big hurdle here and it doesn't happen overnight.

Luckily for me, I got bedazzled by and drawn into that world a long time ago (although in this galaxy).

calm

06-10-2013, 06:06

Very, very interesting thread :salute:

Makes consider the aquisition of one 3D printer... someday in the far, far future :cry:

Theres no way I could justify the expense to "She, who sees all" :embarass:

Anyway, a very good read, thanks for the effort ! :rum:

Andy Blozinski

06-10-2013, 19:42

calm

06-11-2013, 06:59

There has got to be SOMETHING you could print up she wants that would suddenly justify it.

Hehehe, I will think of something :question:

SeaRoyal20

06-11-2013, 09:54

You have put in a lot of time and effort (not to metion money) on this! You are the path finder for all of us that have considered this.

calm

06-11-2013, 10:17

PunkReaper

06-11-2013, 10:58

Following this thread I have just put my son, who is an aeronautical engineer onto building me one. Hey that's what kids are for. So he is huddled over books, writing on mysterious prices of paper and coming up with a design. Now to get his brother to foot the bill :beer:

RichardPF

06-11-2013, 20:32

You have put in a lot of time and effort (not to metion money) on this! You are the path finder for all of us that have considered this.

Indeed, if not for this thread, I would not be considering it, not even remotely :salute:

Following this thread I have just put my son, who is an aeronautical engineer onto building me one. Hey that's what kids are for. So he is huddled over books, writing on mysterious prices of paper and coming up with a design. Now to get his brother to foot the bill :beer:

This is a very exciting time in the 3D printer world.
The landsape is changing daily and the prices are dropping!

There are also new companies entering the market all the time as well.

The waiting times on the Makerbot machine I was looking at originally are dropping quickly as well (I would have gotten one of those but at the time the wait was multiple months).

Other technologies are also faster and more precise, but also much more costly.
Moore's Law is, however, very actively at work on all of this so the longer you can hold out the more bang you get for your buck.
(Yes, I'm one to talk... but I have held out for months without buying an upmarket machine! Though there may have been a purchase of mass quantities of small ship models that impacted that timeline. :wink:)

Arakus

09-08-2014, 11:28

All the pictures in this thread seems to be damaged, can they pls be reuploaded?

Coog

09-08-2014, 11:42

All the pictures in this thread seems to be damaged, can they pls be reuploaded?

Bruce (RichardPF) was posting the pictures and working with 3D printers. Unfortunately, he has not been logged on or posting since April.

Arakus

09-08-2014, 11:51

Bruce (RichardPF) was posting the pictures and working with 3D printers. Unfortunately, he has not been logged on or posting since April.

Thats very sad as the posts look to be very interresting but are nearly useless without the pictures.
I hope he is well when he didn't log in for such long time. :question:

Coog

09-08-2014, 12:01

Thats very sad as the posts look to be very interresting but are nearly useless without the pictures.
I hope he is well when he didn't log in for such long time. :question:

I believe Eric tried to contact him by e-mail, but I don't know if he ever had a return.

7eat51

09-09-2014, 07:08

Unfortunately, I don't think Bruce will be back anytime soon. I will let him know he is missed.

Broadsword56

09-09-2014, 08:39

I too miss Richard's thread, and as a newcomer I never even got the benefit of seeing his pics when they were still viewable.
Having said that -- I'm still actively working on a 3D print project to make 1/1000 minis. Learning my way through the design software has been a complex process, but progress continues....
I have one ship I'm doing as a trial run and proof of concept. It's the brig Niagara, from the Lake Erie campaign of 1813. I modeled the port hull from the naval drawings in Freeship, a program that people use to make real ships. That went well. Using Meshmixer, I mirrored the port side to make a full hollow hull. Then it took a while to clean up the mesh and figure out the best way to put a deck on it. Eventually I realized the best way is to make it a solid hull, which means all, I have to do is sculpt or push down the top face to sink the deck down below the sheerline. That's my current headache and I haven't managed to accomplish it yet. But each new challenge teaches me something.
I think 3D prints and community-made accessories are they keys to SOG having a future. It's just not going to be enough for players to wait for the official Ares models to trickle out. Gamers are impatient and will move on to other things. So things like the Anchorage, player-made scenarios, and player made models are essential to creating the necessary community around the game for it to gain audience and keep evolving.

Arakus

09-09-2014, 09:05

Maybe don't print it as one piece.

The hull of the models from ares games are made of about 7 pieces and then glued together.

1 stern, 2 buttom parts, 2 sides, 1 deck, 1 bow piece.

Broadsword56

09-09-2014, 09:38

Diamondback

09-09-2014, 12:09

Gina, have you tried SolidWorks? I dabbled a little with it when I was starting to look into CNC-machining my own gun parts, and while I found it a little beyond my entry-level skillset it may help you.

I'm trying to get Roberto to put together an article about how these ships are made, too...

csadn

09-09-2014, 17:51

1 stern, 2 buttom parts, 2 sides, 1 deck, 1 bow piece.

If they have two bottom parts, does that mean they also have Buttcrack? >;)

Diamondback

09-09-2014, 21:41

If they have two bottom parts, does that mean they also have Buttcrack? >;)
:smack:

csadn

09-10-2014, 16:03

:smack:

I guess that pun tuchus by surprise. ;)

Diamondback

09-10-2014, 16:10

*puts boot up French's arse*

Arakus

09-10-2014, 16:22

That's really interesting to know -- thanks.
I can try splitting the model in more ways, if necessary.
At the moment, I'm flummoxed because 123D Design seems unwilling to recognize my flush deck as a face of the object. It may be considering the entire hull and deck as one face, so I can't select the deck face to transform it.
The software CAD tools are really the obstacle now that keep 3D printing from becoming a household technology. The pro tools cost a lot and are complex. The freeware tools are great, but have spotty documentation and still have a long way to go to become user -friendly or get all the needed capabilities into one package. The "killer app" is still waiting to be made, IMHO.

If you manage to print parts of the ship i think many are interrested in getting some parts for modding/painting, also masts and sails would be a good thing for modders.
What i would ask for is also some of this blue plastic bases as my ships will be stored with sea bases and i will for gaming take the ship and put it in another base.
I don't think ares will sell this bases alone, so it will be difficult to get some.

RotS-Targe

09-10-2014, 18:07

Gina, it might help to look around for other free software. I wouldn't be much help, currently sitting on a few years of free AutoCAD 2014 (the perks of being a student ^w^), but there is likely many programs to use, Blender is a very popular modeling program, I have a friend who does great things with it. I heard Freeship mentioned, a quick search found me delftship, which has a free version that claims to work with 3D printers, might create the main hull there and use your modeling/CAD software for the parts it can't do, like masts, sails, cannons, all that.
My point I guess is since you haven't paid any money for software, don't be afraid to keep looking for a program you like better, there's plenty out there, some decent, some not worth the electrons they're written on, and others that are great at what they do.
I'd love to see some of your progress shots!

7eat51

09-10-2014, 22:56

Broadsword56

09-10-2014, 23:02

Thanks for the suggestions. OK, here are two shots:

Below, the hull modeled in Freeship from the ship's plans:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz225/broadsword56/Sails%20of%20Glory/niagara_3d_prelim_screenshot_zpsd11ae7b6.jpg

Freeship exports one side of the hollow hull to STL format. So I mirrored it using Blender to make the complete hollow hull, then exported into Netfabb to check for and fix flaws in thickness and the mesh. In Meshmixer I also use a lot of sculpt brushes to smooth the model and get better edges along the sheerline. Netfabb didn't like the empty shape, so it also automatically capped the hull at the sheerline. This wasn't a bad thing, however, because it gave me a surface I could use in Meshmixer to select, smooth and extrude along the negative Y axis to make a deck at the proper level below the bulwarks:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz225/broadsword56/Sails%20of%20Glory/niagara_3d_prelim_screenshot_deck_extruded_zpsc8d9dfef.jpg

Next I'll use more little extrusions to pull square, creased shapes up from the deck to make the deck fixtures -- the companionways, skylights, etc., that keep the deck from looking too naked. Or, I might use 123D Design instead to place premade blocks and square shapes down on the deck and join them to the model.

It's important to remember that at 1/1000 scale, this hull of 123 feet would be only about 1.5 inches long, and with the bowsprit would be only 2.4 inches total. So I'm keeping deck detail to a minimum -- just the basic shapes and a series of little bumps along the gunports that I can paint black to suggest the carronades. Gunports, of course, will be painted on and not actually cut.

After the deck detail is done I just need to sculpt out a little U shape at the prow where the bowsprit will emerge from the bulwark. Then the hull is done.

The masts come next. Since someone is already selling a reasonable-looking 3D printed Sails of Glory first-rate foremast (https://www.shapeways.com/model/2074276/first-rate-foremast-1-1000-scale.html) with battle sails on Shapeways ($4.00), it shouldn't be too hard to figure out a 3D design for the masts/sails I need.

As a final step, the parts get imported into a program called Mattercontrol, which turns STL files into the kind of files that 3D printers actually print. By setting up a dummy printer and running a file, I can get Mattercontrol to tell me whether a part would actually print, how long it would take, and how many ccs of filament it would use.

I should know a lot more in the next month or so, when I print this ship out. I just want to see whether it can look close enough to the quality of the Ares models that with some paint, etc., 3D printed ships would be viable alternatives to get more variety into the game. This first ship is the hardest because I've had to learn the tools and figure out the best workflow as I go.

Subsequent ships could be made in a fairly short time. The Great Lakes fleets really interest me but they'd all be very small models like this. I'd also like to try a merchant ship, and a privateer, because they would expand SGN scenario possibilities. Filament is not expensive at all. It's the printing and assembly/painting time and logistics that daunt me -- that's what might keep me from being able to offer them commercially or in any quantity, since I'm sure I can't (and don't intend to) compete with those poor souls in China. But the real promise of 3D printing isn't mass production; it's custom production at home for one's own use and enjoyment, or to share and exchange with friends.

All the software tools I've mentioned here are freeware, by the way -- or basic free versions of tools that have higher-level, paid versions with additional features. I'm amazed that these exist, and I'm very grateful. They make all kinds of creative experiments and art projects feasible.

Diamondback

09-10-2014, 23:34

Purely out of curiosity, what type of cost would setting up a 3-D printer entail? What would the cost be of printing ships?

I find this 3-D printing fascinating, even if it is well beyond my technological capabilities.
Eric, this little guy ran ~$100 on Kickstarter: http://www.peachyprinter.com/#!printer-specs/c1gk6
Or check this site: http://www.3ders.org/pricecompare/3dprinters/

Of course, you can always roll your own: http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-a-Laser-3D-Printer-Stereolithography-at-Ho/

I need to find one with a 3d-scanner capability to make some custom parts for a model I'm building... basically, chop off the entire right half of a CH-53E's "sail" structure and replace it with a mirror image of the left to turn a 3-engine chopper into a 4-engine one.

RotS-Targe

09-10-2014, 23:37

Purely out of curiosity, what type of cost would setting up a 3-D printer entail? What would the cost be of printing ships?

I find this 3-D printing fascinating, even if it is well beyond my technological capabilities.

It would basically be the price of the printer and spool of plastic, and software if you aren't using the free stuff. There are services online where you can print out things and have them shipped to you, like shapeways, one of the nice things about them is you can use the really good stuff without having to pay for the printer, just the time and material. Most printers that are in a personal pricerange are limited by their definition and materials, but with the online services you can use higher definitions and better materials (including metals, in some cases) that would be out of your pricerange if you were going to buy a printer capable of that on your own.

Thanks for the suggestions. OK, here are two shots:

Below, the hull modeled in Freeship from the ship's plans:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz225/broadsword56/Sails%20of%20Glory/niagara_3d_prelim_screenshot_zpsd11ae7b6.jpg

Freeship exports one side of the hollow hull to STL format. So I mirrored it using Blender to make the complete hollow hull, then exported into Netfabb to check for and fix flaws in thickness and the mesh. In Meshmixer I also use a lot of sculpt brushes to smooth the model and get better edges along the sheerline. Netfabb didn't like the empty shape, so it also automatically capped the hull at the sheerline. This wasn't a bad thing, however, because it gave me a surface I could use in Meshmixer to select, smooth and extrude along the negative Y axis to make a deck at the proper level below the bulwarks:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz225/broadsword56/Sails%20of%20Glory/niagara_3d_prelim_screenshot_deck_extruded_zpsc8d9dfef.jpg

Next I'll use more little extrusions to pull square, creased shapes up from the deck to make the deck fixtures -- the companionways, skylights, etc., that keep the deck from looking too naked. Or, I might use 123D Design instead to place premade blocks and square shapes down on the deck and join them to the model.

It's important to remember that at 1/1000 scale, this hull of 123 feet would be only about 1.5 inches long, and with the bowsprit would be only 2.4 inches total. So I'm keeping deck detail to a minimum -- just the basic shapes and a series of little bumps along the gunports that I can paint black to suggest the carronades. Gunports, of course, will be painted on and not actually cut.

After the deck detail is done I just need to sculpt out a little U shape at the prow where the bowsprit will emerge from the bulwark. Then the hull is done.

The masts come next. Since someone is already selling a reasonable-looking 3D printed Sails of Glory first-rate foremast (https://www.shapeways.com/model/2074276/first-rate-foremast-1-1000-scale.html) with battle sails on Shapeways ($4.00), it shouldn't be too hard to figure out a 3D design for the masts/sails I need.

As a final step, the parts get imported into a program called Mattercontrol, which turns STL files into the kind of files that 3D printers actually print. By setting up a dummy printer and running a file, I can get Mattercontrol to tell me whether a part would actually print, how long it would take, and how many ccs of filament it would use.

I should know a lot more in the next month or so, when I print this ship out. I just want to see whether it can look close enough to the quality of the Ares models that with some paint, etc., 3D printed ships would be viable alternatives to get more variety into the game. This first ship is the hardest because I've had to learn the tools and figure out the best workflow as I go.

Subsequent ships could be made in a fairly short time. The Great Lakes fleets really interest me but they'd all be very small models like this. I'd also like to try a merchant ship, and a privateer, because they would expand SGN scenario possibilities. Filament is not expensive at all. It's the printing and assembly/painting time and logistics that daunt me -- that's what might keep me from being able to offer them commercially or in any quantity, since I'm sure I can't (and don't intend to) compete with those poor souls in China. But the real promise of 3D printing isn't mass production; it's custom production at home for one's own use and enjoyment, or to share and exchange with friends.

All the software tools I've mentioned here are freeware, by the way -- or basic free versions of tools that have higher-level, paid versions with additional features. I'm amazed that these exist, and I'm very grateful. They make all kinds of creative experiments and art projects feasible.

Looks great, I've been very curious how freeship would handle the AoS hull lines, they look very nice.
Looking forward to seeing how she survives being shipped to you from shapeways, hope you can make the masts survive.

fredmiracle

09-11-2014, 01:28

I wonder about the durability of printed models for something delicate like masts...?

7eat51

09-11-2014, 08:42

Thanks for the replies, DB and Targe. Quite a range of prices on the one link.

I wondered if the "affordable" ones would be able to produce detailed and durable items.

I imagine like other technology, the price will continue to drop while the quality will continue to improve. If the price-quality mix ever reaches a certain point, I might buy Sue a present. With 15mm WWII armor, buildings, etc., such a thing could pay for itself.

RotS-Targe

09-11-2014, 10:56

Fred, depends on what it's printed out of, many options to choose from.
Eric, where the tech is at now I don't think you would be able to get as much detail as we'd like at affordable prices, but you are very right with your last part, prices will go down and quality will go up as time goes on. At some point I easily see the biggest barrier to entry being the modeling/CAD software, not anything to do with the printer itself.

Gina, since you've downloaded Freeship, could you do some snooping for me? does it output to .dwg? That's what my AutoCAD uses, so if I can import straight to a program I already am familiar with, will be a very good program for me to pick up.

Yeah, as if it wasn't already readily apparent, I love 3d printers, used them in high school a bit, kept an eye on the tech ever since, I love what they're doing with them already, and am doing my best to keep abreast with the latest news.

fredmiracle

09-11-2014, 11:28

So my other question is--where are we at with COLOR 3D printing? If I could avoid having to paint it, then it would really start getting interesting...

7eat51

09-11-2014, 12:06

Targe, fortunately for me, I have a wife with a BS in EE, an MS in Computer Science, 20 years of software engineering experience, and the past 6 years doing graphic design. All I have to do is ask her to make some tanks, show her some pictures, and stand back watching the magic occur. She has the brains, beauty, and talent. I eat. It has been a great partnership.

RotS-Targe

09-11-2014, 12:20

So my other question is--where are we at with COLOR 3D printing? If I could avoid having to paint it, then it would really start getting interesting...

Color printing is tricky. There are very many ways to print in 3d, and some are better with color than others.

One of the older technologies is very good at it, but has it's downfalls. This version is you have two tubs with moveable bottoms, one filled with a fine powder, a small layer is moved onto the other tub, and a liquid adhesive is deposited onto the powder, the tub moves down, another layer is moved onto it, and the process repeats until the item is finished. Since it's basically a laserjet printer, you can easily get a wide range of colors at decent details, but the end result is an item that is very fragile, I don't think making game pieces using this type of printer is a good idea.

What most printers use now is also like a laserjet printer, but instead of ink it heats a spool of plastic to about 200 degrees F, and deposits it onto a tray that moves up and down. There are some versions of this that have a second spool of support plastic that is dissolved in a bath of very caustic acid once everything is cooled down, this is good for some of the more adventurous builds, and could come in handy with ships, but they cost more and the acid isn't cheap either, this is the kind I have the most experience with.
The downside of this is, while yes they do make colored spools, the options are fairly limited, I doubt you can mix them, and you lose a lot of definition at the scale we're using, you would likely end up painting over it anyways. Also, if you do use the acid one, the acid stains the plastic to a dull yellow often, I've seen it go to a shade of brown about the same as the "Thread Information" box below here.

Eric, another great thing about having it done in house, don't have to pay commission!

Broadsword56

09-11-2014, 13:08

@RotS -- The Freeship export file formats are IGES, DXF (3D mesh, 3D polylines, 2D polylines), Wavefront file (OBJ), STL, of FEF.

RotS-Targe

09-11-2014, 13:55

Thanks, sad to see I can't inport it directly, but it still looks fun to fool around in.

csadn

09-11-2014, 16:20

I wonder about the durability of printed models for something delicate like masts...?

Depends on whether it can be made to Bend rather than Break. I honestly prefer Bendable -- if it Bends, it can be Bent Back. (It just takes a while.)

But I don't want to HINDER the discussion with opinions too much.... ;)

Broadsword56

09-11-2014, 17:12

Depends on whether it can be made to Bend rather than Break. I honestly prefer Bendable -- if it Bends, it can be Bent Back. (It just takes a while.)

But I don't want to HINDER the discussion with opinions too much.... ;)

Well, having seen and handled some printed models of little toys, etc., I think PLA (the recyclable corn-based filament) looks more bendable and the traditional plastic is more brittle. For environmental reasons I was already inclined to use the PLA. But I think it also might help make less-brittle ship models and masts. When I print my first ship I'll know.

Broadsword56

09-11-2014, 22:43

Got the deck fixtures in place on the Niagara's hull now. That finishes the hull, other than to sculpt out the little U shape at the stem for the bowsprit and check it for mesh or thickness issues that could mess up a print. From what I understand, a fine-looking model on a screen can turn into a mess very quickly on a 3D printer due to issues that aren't visible to the naked eye. So I have to run some tests on it and -- even then -- just try a print next week and see what happens.

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz225/broadsword56/Sails%20of%20Glory/niagara_3D_prelim_screnshot_finished_hull_with_deck_fixtures_zps471241ba.jpg

Now, on to the challenge of the sails/masts. Since the bottom of a 3D print has to be totally flat, I'm wrestling with the best way to design masts/sails for 3D printing. Any suggestions? Someone was telling me that if I printed them vertically, they'd droop because the plastic wouldn't harden quickly enough to keep the yards straight. But I think he was envisioning a much larger model. Maybe keeping it so small could help me here.

(Now I realize I need to add 1 more gun to each side because the Niagara had 18 carronades, not 16. It also had two long 12s but I won't depict them.)

Broadsword56

09-15-2014, 23:01

Coog

09-15-2014, 23:09

Looks nice. Probably would work for USS Hornet also while she was rigged as a brig prior to the War of 1812.

Nightmoss

09-15-2014, 23:15

Very nice! Keep up the great work.

Hobbes

09-16-2014, 03:02

Nice work, very high detail on that small ship. Do you intend to use this as it is for playing/display or do want to make a mold and start production?

7eat51

09-16-2014, 09:46

Great start, Gina. Very nice work. :hatsoff:

I am looking forward to your next installment, especially on how you will fasten the masts to the hull.

Broadsword56

09-16-2014, 10:53

Nice work, very high detail on that small ship. Do you intend to use this as it is for playing/display or do want to make a mold and start production?

My plan was to make this ship as a proof of concept, to explore whether I could...
*Learn the software tools required to make 3D printed ships and figure out the workflow,
*See whether the print technology as it stands now could make 1/1000 ships of acceptable detail for SGN,
*See whether the time and cost per ship would make them feasible to produce beyond my own collection,
*Discover which distribution mode would make the most sense.

So far, I think 1 and 2 are accomplished and the results are very encouraging. I still have to finish and test-print the Niagara's sails and masts, which are as challenging in their own way as learning how to make this first hull. I'll need to try painting it and see how that turns out.

Tech-wise, there's no question that 3D printers are up to the job. The guy who printed this for me was banging out squadrons of Niagara hulls 4 at a time once we got the final calibrations worked out. The PLA filament is cheap. The time to print a set of 4 hulls was maybe 20 minutes. This is as small a ship as a printer is really capable of making, though -- to do things like gunboats, bateaux, etc, I'd put several on one base, print them as a single object, and have them operate in SGN as a unit. With larger ships, it might even be feasible to have masts that snap into a socket, rather than be glued on. That would enable them to be positioned for wind, and be removed to represent damage in game.

I don't own a printer, so while I have access to several for prototyping, I'd either have to get a printer or outsource that. For example, with a Shapeways store site. I definitely would not sell prepainted ships because the work involved would kill me. But perhaps there are some people out there who are frustrated enough with the scarcity of SGN models, want to see some specialized ship types that Ares doesn't make or might never make, and who wouldn't mind having to do some minor assembly and some painting to have affordable fleet expansions. We'll see...I'm open to suggestions.

I would make only models, and then leave it to the community to develop and share SGN-compatible ratings and cards for them.

One thing I'm sure about: The long term health and growth of SGN will depend on a lot more user-created content being made and exchanged. That fosters a community around the game and system, and will actually help Ares sell more games in the long run. I see a lot of whining and wishful thinking where players keep begging or demanding that Ares provide more goodies. But the tools are out there to make what we want, the way we want. Why wait?

RotS-Targe

09-16-2014, 11:26

Behold, the Niagara in 1/1000 scale. Tiny, yes -- but even the little cannon and some deck details are discernible enough at this size to stand up to the Ares models. Painting it would be quite a challenge, to be sure.

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz225/broadsword56/Sails%20of%20Glory/niagarahull3_zps835eb0c3.jpg

Working on the sails and masts next...

Does your camera have a macro setting? Would really help to get the fine details showing.

That's definitely as small as you can go, any smaller and all you'd see are the print lines, which are already creeping in here (look at the diagonal lines on the deck)

Sadly, I don't think bigger ships will show much better detail with the printer you're using, though you might ask him if he can play around in the settings to make the detail finer, but I really don't know the particulars, so this might be the best we can do.

How brittle does she feel?

csadn

09-16-2014, 15:37

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz225/broadsword56/Sails%20of%20Glory/niagarahull3_zps835eb0c3.jpg

Is that waffle-plating effect amidships supposed to be there?

RotS-Targe

09-16-2014, 15:53

Is that waffle-plating effect amidships supposed to be there?

That's a result of the printing process, each line is a result of the printer head's path over the layer below it, the only way to get rid of it is to soak the piece in acetone vapors, which slightly melts the surface, but you would lose many of your hard lines, and if it sits there too long it could weaken the structure, depending on how thick the walls are.
My suggestion, rotate the model in the printer 45 so they run lengthwise, and see if you can put more fill in, it may look better if the deck is slightly thicker.

Broadsword56

09-16-2014, 19:38

Thanks so much for the feedback!

Re: the questions about the model...

Brittleness -- Yes, pretty stiff. Feels like that plastic they used to use to make Crackerjack prizes. Also VERY lightweight. Will be interesting to see how the finished ship feels and looks and handles, and whether the masts break any more easily than the Ares ones.

I won't be making any pins or holes on the bottom, to keep the bottoms flat and smooth for any minis system. So for SGN one would need to use a dab of blue-tack or something like that to stick them on a game card and base. People who do this now with other brand minis say it works great.

Texture on the deck -- Actually that's a byproduct of my own learning process in making this first model. I made the deck and bulwarks by taking the filled solid hull with a flush upper surface, and sinking (negative extruding) it into the model. When doing that I had 2 options for the bottom of the extrude: Flat, or Normals (following the inner shape of the model). I first did flat, but that made the rear of the deack break through the angled transom once it was pushed down. So I chose Normal, thinking it woudl be flat anyway since this is a waterline model. But...I'd failed to make the bottom of the model perfectly flat in the beginning. We eventually had to fix this in printing because every object has to sit flat on the print bed in order to print. But the deck was already made, and remained with some variations in height that aren't really that noticeable from playing distance but are visible on close scrutiny.

In future models, If I can, I'll probably just make a solid hull from waterline to deck, then define the sheer edge and extrude it upwards to make the deck and bulwarks effect. Also, now that I'm more proficient with smoothing brushes, I can polish imperfections on decks to get them a bit nicer.

A bit here about my intent on these models:

A model, by definition, is a representation of a real ship and not the ship itself. So every model lies somewhere on a continuum, with 0 being a generic game piece (like a hotel in Monopoly or a meeple in a Euro game) and 100 being a totally authentic scale replica that includes every rope, pulley, and visible detail from the real ship. I'm going for ships that represent the original in the major areas most visible to the SGN gamer, at the distances that the gamer would normally be looking at the model during play. That includes major things like the hull shape and style, the masts and sail plan, etc. But these are game items and not intended for the minis connoisseur or the collectors of Langtons, etc. They're just meant to look good enough alongside the Ares models and fill the need for a more diverse range of ships. And, since I want an automated process, I'll be making some tradeoffs due to the nature of the print technology. So, for example, my initial sails will be 3D and "billowed" on the front side but flat on the back, with 3D masts that get attached to them. I'll have to see how that looks, but at this point I think it won't matter that much because we tend to look at the sails mostly from front and sides, and the lack of a concave back isn't that big a deal. I predict the front "billowing" will tend to fool the eye into seeing them from a distance as 3D in back, even if they're not. If I do find a way to make printable masts/sails that are 3D on all sides, I will. The guy who's selling replacement first rate foremasts already on Shapeways has apparently done it, but I'm not sure how to do it yet.

RotS-Targe

09-16-2014, 20:21

On how light she is, might do a complete fill, costs a bit more plastic, but might give her a good weight. Since she's so brittle, you might beef up the masts a bit, they worry me the most, since they're so thin, easily snapped. You might look around for another material if the test masts snap too easily, but I wouldn't know what to recommend.

Broadsword56

09-16-2014, 22:04

Agreed about the masts -- they have to be at least 1mm diameter just to print. The Ares masts are thicker than scale, about 1/16 inch from what I can see from a casual measurement. That would be about 1.5mm. I might even go to 2mm if that doesn't look too clunky.

Of course many modelers have gotten very nice looking sails/masts using wire and paper combinations, etc. But my goal is to make an entirely 3D printed ship if that's possible, to make replication easy and cheap and to test whether this would be possible and still get a model good enough to trade broadsides with the "official" ships.

By the way, the Niagara was printed on a printer that has a 0.4mm nozzle. But it still needed the model to have twice that thickness at minimum at any point in order for it to print properly. The larger the ship, the finer detail (in relation to overall size) would be possible, and the more that detail would be worth modeling because it would be more readily visible.

Diamondback

09-17-2014, 13:03

Gina, I'd go ~1.62mm like the Wave 1 sculpts. Small ships like sloops you might get by with 1.5, but anything taller or bigger than the Swan sculpt minimum 1.6, possibly 1.7+ if you get into First/Second Rates.

Broadsword56

09-17-2014, 13:26

Diamondback

09-17-2014, 14:15

General rule, the bigger the mast, not only the more you CAN get away with beefing it up but the more you NEED to.

Also, I'd suggest printing the masts as separate pieces from the hull, slightly extended and on a "to be cut off" base--that way if you have a dud mast you're not out the printed hull, too.

Broadsword56

09-23-2014, 19:14

I made the sail set as one piece, and the mast as a separate piece. The two, if they print successfully, will be glued together before mounting on the deck.
But I just brought the 3D designs into 123D design so I could show you what they would look like ideally once assembled:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz225/broadsword56/Sails%20of%20Glory/Niagara_foremast_with_sails_ptoto_image_zps866be897.jpg

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz225/broadsword56/Sails%20of%20Glory/niagara_foremast_with_sails_side_proto_image_zps9f840f83.jpg

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz225/broadsword56/Sails%20of%20Glory/niagara_foremast_with_sails_rear_proto_image_zpsb9745b36.jpg

(Edit: I realized after posting these that I think I positioned the mast upside-down. Oh well - you get the idea.)

For those curious as to how I got these: I pulled up a line drawing of the sail plan for a brig, then traced the sails and mast and filled them with black as separate jpegs. Next I turned them into scalable vector graphics (SVG) files using Inkscape, and imported them into Blender where I made them into objects and exported them as STL files. The artsy part came in Meshmixer, where I used various combination of sculpting tools to sculpt the mesh into the convex front billowed surfaces adn the concave rear surfaces. The mast was a simpler process from 2D to 3D, just a matter of scaling and shaping. The mast is 33mm tall and the sail set is 23mm tall. The mast looks a little thicker than I'd like, but I don't want to go under 1.5mm thickness for fear that these will be too fragile in PLA plastic.

I should have a test print in another couple of weeks to see how and whether these worked out.

Broadsword56

09-27-2014, 10:56

I finished modeling the 3D parts for sail and mast assemblies. To test how they all would look when assembled, and see how they fit together (in theory), I put everything together in 123D Design and took some screenies:

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz225/broadsword56/Sails%20of%20Glory/niagara_complete_model_screenshot_offbow_zps75312bb8.jpg

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz225/broadsword56/Sails%20of%20Glory/niagara_complete_model_screenshot_aboveright_zpsf602d4bc.jpg

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz225/broadsword56/Sails%20of%20Glory/niagara_complete_model_screenshot_broadside_zpsfcafb754.jpg

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz225/broadsword56/Sails%20of%20Glory/niagara_complete_model_screenshot_top_zps1b238409.jpg

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz225/broadsword56/Sails%20of%20Glory/niagara_complete_model_screenshot_portrearqtr_zps965d89cd.jpg

I was pleasantly surprised by how well the hull printed. But that was relatively simple because the hull has a flat base at the waterline. The real test will be the sails and masts -- much more complicated to figure out the best orientation, use of supports where necessary, etc., due to the lack of 100% flat bases.

Kentop

09-27-2014, 16:31

Diamondback

09-27-2014, 18:13

Curious rigging layout for a brig... usually the difference between a brig and ketch rig is brig is Main-Mizzen (taller mast ahead), while ketch is Fore-Main (taller mast astern).

Broadsword56

09-27-2014, 18:51

Yes, the Niagara (and it's twin the Lawrence) were oddities.
That's part of what I like about the Great Lakes campaigns in 1813 -- a strange and diverse collection of ships on both sides, some one of a kind. I think SGN would be all the more interesting if we were to see ship-rigged brigs along with sloops and schooners and gunboats all in the same actions.
The SGN ratings and maneuver deck for the Niagara/Lawrence would be interesting, too -- the Lakes ships were built with extremely shallow drafts (IIRC, 9 feet for these) compared to seagoing ships of the time. So they really couldn't sail as close to the wind as, for example, the frigates we have in the game now.
Schooners and other fore-and aft rigged ships, while they could sail much closer to the wind than square-riggers, were highly vulnerable in combat because the full width of their sails was exposed broadside to the enemy -- making rigging and mast/sail damage much more likely.
And while it's easy to dismiss the gunboats as too puny to matter at our scale, they played an important tactical role on Lake Erie. Perry placed them at the head of his line to prevent the British getting a rake against the head of his formation. And, because each gunboat had a single long 32, they could inflict terrible damage on a larger ship armed only with carronades, if the gunboats could avoid enemy broadsides and, say, fire from standoff distance against a damaged enemy.

Broadsword56

09-27-2014, 20:51

Looks fantastic. A real work of art. Some things have to be exaggerated in small scales, and bulwarks are one of them. But your bulwarks actually project above the deck houses too much, though. Get the roofs of the deck houses above the bulwarks and it will enhance your model immensely.

Understood. But in the case of the Niagara/Lawrence, those aren't deckhouses but raised skylights. And they didn't come up above the level of the bulwarks, as you can see ina photo on Page 7 of this model kit instructions:

http://www.historicships.com/TALLSHIPS/Model%20Shipways/Niagara/Niagara%20ms2240%20Manual.pdf

Broadsword56

09-29-2014, 16:50

Curious rigging layout for a brig... usually the difference between a brig and ketch rig is brig is Main-Mizzen (taller mast ahead), while ketch is Fore-Main (taller mast astern).

Technically speaking, the USS Niagara was not a pure brig but, because of this layout, is classified as a snow-brig.

Coog

09-30-2014, 00:05

Technically speaking, the USS Niagara was not a pure brig but, because of this layout, is classified as a snow-brig.

More on snow brigs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_(ship)

csadn

09-30-2014, 18:06

So the Battle of Lake Erie was a...

[sunglasses]

...SNOW JOB?

B)

Diamondback

09-30-2014, 18:10

Okay, Lieutenant Caine... :p

DeRuyter

10-01-2014, 10:37

Not so sure Niagara's rig is unusual. A brig still has a taller main and the snow is just a variation on how the mainsail (spanker) is rigged (on a separate spar). A ketch has the smaller mast astern, and in modern ketches much smaller.

Nice picture of Niagara here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brig

csadn

10-01-2014, 17:02

7eat51

10-02-2014, 21:13

Very nice work, Gina. :hatsoff:

This will be an exciting set of additions to our games. I like your philosophy regarding making ships nice enough to stand alongside Ares ships in gameplay. This past weekend as we ran WoG games at the WWI commemoration event, I noticed once the games started, players weren't paying attention to the planes as they focused on thinking about maneuvers. Better to have a diverse collection of good enoughs than a few highly detailed replicas.

With Shapeway's announcement of increased prices, I hope you can find a third party printer that is affordable.

Kentop

10-03-2014, 14:17

Understood. But in the case of the Niagara/Lawrence, those aren't deckhouses but raised skylights. And they didn't come up above the level of the bulwarks, as you can see ina photo on Page 7 of this model kit instructions:

http://www.historicships.com/TALLSHIPS/Model%20Shipways/Niagara/Niagara%20ms2240%20Manual.pdf

You are absolutely right. Fantastic Job. The brig was only 110 ft long, so the Bulwark height is correct. The sails look great, too. Keep up the good work. Lots of great potential in what you are doing.

Broadsword56

10-03-2014, 16:38

Thanks so much, guys!
The plan from here:
1. Test-print my sails and masts for Niagara in a couple of weeks, the next chance I have at getting access and help to a local 3D printer.
2. If I'm satisfied with my completed prototype Niagara, then I'd send the 7-part kit to Shapeways (or another 3rd party site) to buy a print from them. This would tell me whether the site is able to do a satisfactory job using my files, let me see the model in a more sturdy plastic than PLA, and tell me what the cost of a 3rd party print would be per model.
3. if I like the 3rd party print, then I'd set up an online store site and put Niagara kit on it as its lone item. I'd announce on the site that this is just the first model, and if I see sufficient interest and sales I'll make more and add them to the store. Some of the additional models I'd be interested in making would be the other Great Lakes ships, A merchantman, a privateer, and more Spanish ships beyond the ones Ares has coming. My intention would be to make ships available that are better suited to the nature of the SGN game system than the fleet-action oriented direction Ares seems to be following.
4. Once I have a ship up for order, I'm intending to run community contests to tap the collective brains of players for the best game ratings and maneuver decks for them. The gist would be something like: The first person to upload and share on the Anchorage a set of game ratings and maneuver deck for X ship would get the prize: A painted and assembled print of that ship. Others could take those ratings and design/share their own ship cards or mats to their liking -- there's no need to copy the Ares designs, and in fact I'd recommend against it because we all want to respect the copyrighted aspects of their game.

This is an ambitious plan, and it could fail or hit a snag at any point. But I think it could be a way to answer some demand, and at the very least I'd have a way to make any ship I want.

Question: What would you feel you'd be willing to pay for a 3D printed 1/1000 scale model, unpainted, requiring minor assembly, considering that it would be a ship not available through Ares or any other commercial miniature maker? Personally, I think I'd be willing to pay up to $10 plus S&H. Maybe a little more, but beyond $10 I think interest would drop off significantly.