What about the sails when Xebecs tack?

[William Bush]

All right, here's one from an infernal lubber:

Looking at ships with lateen sails, I always wondered what happens to their sails if they tack.

59188

The spar with the sail is on one side of the mast, the wind fills the sail. All right.
But how does the spar get onto the other side of the mast? If it didn't, then the sail would be pressed against the mast - I cannot believe that was the case after tacking.


Lt. Bush

[Bligh]

This thread from 2020 may be of interest to you William.

https://www.sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?5896-Xebec-Sailing-Characteristics/page2&highlight=Xebec+tack

Rob.

[ShadowDragon]

Try this video on lanteen sails, Lt. Bush.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y9-Idmh3xA

...or this post.

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/2360-a-question-on-working-mizzen-lateen-sails/

[William Bush]

This thread from 2020 may be of interest to you William.

https://www.sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?5896-Xebec-Sailing-Characteristics/page2&highlight=Xebec+tack

Rob.

Thank you for this fine lead, Admiral.

It made me find this:

https://forums.ybw.com/index.php?threads/how-to-tack-a-dhow.264272/post-2844975

Wearing Ship in a Dhow
(image from Clifford Hawkins; The Dhow. Click to enlarge.)
http://indigenousboats.blogspot.com/2009/08/wearing-ship-in-dhow.html


Tacking a dhow, with its huge and heavy settee spar, is apparently not as difficult as might be assumed, provided that a sizable crew is available. Clifford W. Hawkins, in his book The Dhow: an Illustrated History of the Dhow and its World, describes observing the process from aboard a small boat:

"As we closed in on the sambuk [a common two-masted dhow of the Red Sea, Gulf of Aden, South Arabia, and East Africa] I could see that some action was about to take place. The crew, rising off their haunches, casually sauntered to working positions; one right up int he bows at the mains'l tack, four at the shrouds, two to the yard's backhaul and a small group ready to handle the main sheet. These were the action stations for wearing ship, the preliminary operation for sailing on the opposite tack. When the critical moment arrived the helmsman threw over the wheel to bring the wind aft and the big mains'l was allowed to fly forward with the release of its sheet. Every member of the crew now came into action to carry the operation through. The two shrouds that had been taut to windward were eased off and the other pair set up on what was already becoming the new windward side. The yard, which had been freed from the masthead by letting loose the parrel, was at the same time hauled momentarily by the foot, so allowing it to pass over to the forthcoming leeward side. The flying sail was then hauled back and sheeted home on the opposite side to where it had been. it filled out and the sambuk was away on the new tack.

"Surprisingly the operation of wearing ship was not a long or very difficult procedure. The dhow turned unhesitatingly on its heel and was away on the new board with the loss of very little ground. It is possible for a dhow to go about, head to wind, but in doing so it would be in a somewhat similar position to a square-rigged sailing vessel caught aback with the great settee sail afoul of the mast and rigging. In an emergency a dhow could sail, after a fashion, like this and there is in fact one vessel, the Tuticorin thoni [a three-masted, Indian dhow], that habitually sails with the yard on one of its masts slung to port and the other to starboard so that one sail is alternately pulling free or is afoul of the mast as the thoni tacks. The thoni has an entirely unorthodox manner of setting up its rigging and it is this that allows the vessel to tack and not wear as other dhows do."


Lt. Bush

[William Bush]

...or this post.

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/2360-a-question-on-working-mizzen-lateen-sails/

This thread explains it quite well. Thank you.

Lt. Bush

[Dobbs]

I have some new insights which I hope to share shortly.

[William Bush]

I have some new insights which I hope to share shortly.


Mr. Dobbs, you would never associate with pirate moors of the Barbary coast!?

Lt. Bush

[Bligh]

Thanks for the Rep William.

Rob.

[ShadowDragon]

Also, thanks for the rep from me.

[Dobbs]

Mr. Dobbs, you would never associate with pirate moors of the Barbary coast!?

Lt. Bush

It's not so much the Moors. I have a friend with connections to Persia.

My first take away from the information available is that it was not uncommon for lateen ships to sail with their sails backwinded against the mast. Suzanne and I have raced Sunfishes, which are lateen rigged and that is the norm.

If the backwinding is the case, I would expect a slightly asymmetrical windward performance, though with two lateen sails, one on each side of their masts, ir might balance out.

My thought is better windward performance than a square rigger, but not as good as a schooner.

[Dobbs]

Models and paintings can't always be trusted. Artists often go more for effect than accuracy and also may not have the knowledge of the sailor.

For instance, xebecs could be rowed, but imagine the excitement if your oars were sticking out while under sail and they clipped a passing wave!:shock: It would be similar to trying to push a car with your leg while sitting in it and your friend occasionally steps in the accelerator.

There are many paintings showing sails and oars being used simultaneously.