Ship Bases

[Capn Duff]

A long time coming, my apologies, but I have been able to contact a company using mdf to see about extra ship bases for the new 3d/ metal ships.

Dimensioned as per the original bases and with a perspex inlay.
A rough cost is looking around £1 per base.
I haven't asked for a hole to be drilled as some may prefer to stick the ship directly to the perspex, but I assume that should not be to difficult to accommodate.
I will post a pic sometime tomorrow.

Soooooo I was wondering if anyone else was interested in these. I am looking to get a sample posted to me shortly, but it may help if I can say I know x number who would be interested in purchasing, no commitments here, basically a show of hands and about how many.
For me I am looking at around 15 for my extra ships.

here is the pic

https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=54598&d=1622280726

[Bligh]

Yes Chris I will join you in your exploit. That will free up a few bases for my other ships.

Rob.

[David Manley]

I'd be up for a dozen or so. I have no immediate need but I'm sure something will come up if I don't and perhaps if we go for more the price will be a bit less

[Diamondback]

Other than the nuisance of cross-Pond shipping I'd be interested as long as the bottom base is hollow so I can stick magnets in there.

Then again, if my old neighbor can make some base holders from scrap windowframes separating pieces for casing may become moot... If I were designing a case for you guys with U-channel sections to slot bases into, would brass U-channel in a wooden case be acceptable or do I need All Wood All The Time for period feel?

[Lieste]

Ideally all whalebone or narwhale ivory. Wood is a very 'second tier' material.

[Diamondback]

Keep dreaming... such a project does require readily available commercial materials if it's to be kept affordable; the idea I'm thinking of is a wooden case with sockets you set Ares ship bases into then close and latch a door over them and it's secure enough for transport while still suitable to hang on a wall for display.

[David Manley]

Ideally all whalebone or narwhale ivory....

Only slightly illegal :happy:

[TexaS]

Interested. I would want to know more about them, but if I like them I would get at least 20.

[Bligh]

Ideally all whalebone or narwhale ivory. Wood is a very 'second tier' material.

Shame on you sir, for denigrating so the wooden walls of England which have kept us safe this last three hundred years!

Signed, a Brithish foremast Jack and proud of it.

His mark x

[Bligh]

Other than the nuisance of cross-Pond shipping I'd be interested as long as the bottom base is hollow so I can stick magnets in there.

Then again, if my old neighbor can make some base holders from scrap windowframes separating pieces for casing may become moot... If I were designing a case for you guys with U-channel sections to slot bases into, would brass U-channel in a wooden case be acceptable or do I need All Wood All The Time for period feel?

No problem with Brass bound cases as I see it DB, although Admiralty Brass would be preferable. :wink:
Bligh.

[Diamondback]

No problem with Brass bound cases as I see it DB, although Admiralty Brass would be preferable. :wink:
Bligh.

I'm even toying with the idea of brass-painted styrene in the interests of affordability... the securing method I'm thinking of would be a section of U-channel each on port and starboard sides (one each at case rear and on door), and a short section each at bow and stern on the side away from the door. Dusting off the old design study I did and trying to both catch up with COTS materials and economize for production... :)

[Capn Duff]

Pic attached to first post

[TexaS]

I'm in.

[Bligh]

Look fine to me Chris.
I'm in for 15.
How do you want to be paid Chris?
Rob.

[Capn Duff]

Look fine to me Chris.
I'm in for 15.
How do you want to be paid Chris?
Rob.

Nothing at this time, I have asked the sample be sent to me to check out. Once done I will ask if he would prefer a bulk order or individuals.
Jonas sent you a pm

[Bligh]

Thanks for all your trouble Chris.
Rob.

[Capn Duff]

A question chaps, for these bases would you prefer to have the hole drilled in the centre or left not drilled

[Bligh]

For myself undrilled would be fine Chris.

Rob.

[TexaS]

Undrilled is fine. My use will not need a hole anyway.

[Capn Duff]

The sample is on its way, once I receive Ill post a few pics with the ships and Ares versions to compare.

[Capn Duff]

The base comes in three parts

the base, the perspex overlay and the surround

The surround is fragile so you need to be careful and it needs to be glued onto the base.
The pic shows the three parts, I shall post further later to show the base against a current one.


https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=54724&d=1622920321

[Bligh]

Looks OK to me Chris.

Bit of blue paint will soon fix it up.

Rob.

[Diamondback]

Chris, would you mind checking to see if a magnet will attract a washer through both layers? I'm looking at these as a potential solution for basing my Turner (and future Simon Mann) ships, along with spares for Ares ones.

[Capn Duff]

Chris, would you mind checking to see if a magnet will attract a washer through both layers? I'm looking at these as a potential solution for basing my Turner (and future Simon Mann) ships, along with spares for Ares ones.

Will do, neeed to check if have a magnet first though

[Capn Duff]

Looks OK to me Chris.

Bit of blue paint will soon fix it up.

Rob.

My thoughts precisely

[TexaS]

Yep. Will do nicely.

Could you put it together and take a picture of it next to an original?

If it's just the base that makes the height I'm guessing it will be lower?

[Capn Duff]

Will be doing so later Jonas, just waiting for the glue to dry, but the difference in height is negligable if at all

[Capn Duff]

here we go

plan view

https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=54754&d=1622970113


side elevation

https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=54755&d=1622970134

side elevation with ship hulls

https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=54756&d=1622970163

https://www.sailsofglory.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=54757&d=1622970203

[TexaS]

Perhaps I should get 30, not 20, if still possible...

[Bligh]

Just the ticket Chris.
Rob.

[Diamondback]

So just a little too shallow for my purposes unless I add "feet" at the corners to make room for heavy-duty magnet ship mounts, but still looks workable.

[Capn Duff]

Hi DB, havent found my magnets, well the earth magnets for gimbal use, but the base is 3mm thick so to add a magnetbyou would have rto drill through and glue in place, paper on top for the ship stats and then perspex. Hope it works for you.

So my next step is to see how many we all need then I can ask how long and costings.

So let me know chaps and Ill see about best way to get them

[Bligh]

I think 15 will sort out all my ships from Henry Chris.

Rob.

[Diamondback]

Pencil me in for 25; we'll need to work out shipping through Rob by email.

[TexaS]

I'll take thirty then.

[Bligh]

I will take your order Chris and pay DB. You can settle with me later.

Rob.

[TexaS]

How will you handle payment, Chris?

[Capn Duff]

Ok it looks like numbers are as follows

Rob 15
Jonas 30
Db 25
Chris 25
Dave Manley 12

Total 107

[Capn Duff]

I will contact the company and see what arrangements are needed ref the order.

Rob I will contact you this coming weekend.
Jonas I will pm you in a couple of days.

[Diamondback]

Chris, if there's some notch close to 107 where adding a few more gets us a better deal, let us know how many more we need and I'll break out the abacus and slide-rule and start working the budget numbers to see what I can contribute toward that.

[Bligh]

Anything else needed like that and I am happy to go in with you chaps for a bit more.

Rob.

[Capn Duff]

Have now painted the base and it looks more like the originals, I have noticed more now that the new base looks to be 1mm thinner in width, but not overly out of spec.
I will ask if this can be rectified before making the full order.

[TexaS]

A millimeter doesn’t worry me. It’ll only effect collisions and muskets a little. Length is more important, but a millimeter is still almost negligible.

[Bligh]

Have now painted the base and it looks more like the originals, I have noticed more now that the new base looks to be 1mm thinner in width, but not overly out of spec.
I will ask if this can be rectified before making the full order.

How does it effect the fit of the ship card within the frame Chris?

Rob.

[Capn Duff]

It doesnt, if you making your own, mine have all fit ok. Not tried an official one, will do tomorrowcRob

[Bligh]

Thanks Chris.
Rob.

[Capn Duff]

Had word back from Pendraken, they have all in stock, will take about a week including postage times, so if everyone happy I will order and we can then sort out the money side.

[Capn Duff]

How does it effect the fit of the ship card within the frame Chris?

Rob.

Have put in an official ship insert in the new bases, fit perfectly.

[Bligh]

Cheers Chris. Unleash the dogs of war.:minis:

Rob.

[Capn Duff]

Have ordered the bases, I will let you all know when they arrive.

[Diamondback]

Thanks, Chris. Did you end up with bang-on 107, or was there an "adding a few more cuts the price" threshold that we need to make up some extras on?

[Capn Duff]

Hi DB, no extras they had the kit for 107, the item which is costly is the perspex apparently

[Bligh]

Having experienced purchasing perspex over the years, I can vouch for its expense, and that would be even more if they are buying it in ready cut to size.

Rob.

[Capn Duff]

The bases have arrived, plus we did get a bit of discount, cost per base works out at £0.95.
I will let you know once I have worked out best way to get items to you all.

[Bligh]

Thanks Chris and a bit of Kudos for your efforts on our behalf.
Rob.

[Capn Duff]

Thank you Rob

[Diamondback]

Chris, I'm gonna suggest make it a nice round even pound each--get a little something for your time, effort and trouble. :)

[Bligh]

I concur DB.

Rob.

[Capn Duff]

Very kind of you gents, thank you.
Tomorrow I will try to get a pic of the bases painted up to show

[Diamondback]

And if you decide to post an open sale on a future batch, make it 1.25--you did the work, you should have the chance to see not just return OF your investment but ON it too. :)

[Capn Duff]

So the bases are now on their way to most of us now.
If any further or even new orders are needed let me know and I will contact the makers, if you wish to orders yourelves then let me know and Ill post the details.
I will be contacting them soon anyway to let them know all is good and asking if they intend to keep the bases or if we were a one off.

[Diamondback]

Just picked up my mounting magnets today! 2.79 for 10 at Harbor Freight, picked up six packs to do 15 ships. Figure I'll see how firmly they attach with just one at each end, and add middles if needed. (If not, that just means I have supplies for the next 15...)

[Bligh]

Harbour Freight seems very apt DB.
Rob.

[Diamondback]

I think I made the right choice, these little buggers are deceptively strong for their size--a pack of ten sticks to my metal doorframes even through all the packaging, and just in their protective tubes fifty of 'em clustered together quite readily latched onto and held my pocketknife hanging from them. (Bear in mind, this is the biggest blade you can legally carry where I live, PLUS the added weight of a small flashlight, magnesium firestarter, strap cutter, glass breaker and bottle opener all built into its grip!)

At this rate, I think I only need one magnet and one washer at each end of each ship... then I need some filler underneath.

[Capn Duff]

I think by now all of us have received their new bases, so what is the general thoughts on these, worth it, absolute rubbish, a fair start ?
Any feedback from you chaps as to the bases worth and if value ok or not?

I have now glued all my bases , using a white PVA glue and left overnight to dry.
I then painted the whole bases Army Painter Warpaints Deep Blue.

I await you feedback. Gentlemen

[Diamondback]

The one modification I see myself making to these as they are is drilling holes to mount my mini-magnets. I definitely plan on buying more if they're available when fleet expansion warrants.

[Bligh]

As far as I am concerned Chris, they are better and cheaper than my acrylic ones, which needed cutting to size and then after gluing over the ship base card had to be edge sanded and scraped to refine the surface before painting. This is much easier and gives the option of double sideing the Base card or not as in the official ones so much better all round.
Rob.

[Diamondback]

Field testing and mockup results: One REM and a small washer is a weak connection--to securely hold a ship requires either 3-4 washers and magnets, or a magnet on each side at each attachment point.

[Bligh]

Interesting findings DB. So either way it looks like a four magnet job!
Rob.

[Diamondback]

Interesting findings DB. So either way it looks like a four magnet job!
Rob.
Yeah. Using double-layer magnets raises the ship a litte above the outer lip, while the washers bring it right about to lip height. Once I get one glued together, I'm gonna see about taping four washers to San Josef's bottom and see if "strength in numbers" is sufficient or if I'm gonna have to do it the expensive way.

Still trying to decide whether my best option for blackening washers is break out the Sharpie paint-marker or see if my gunsmith can slip 'em into the tank next time he has a Parkerizing job come up...

[Diamondback]

Testing results...

Standard of Acceptability: Mounting solution must hold the heaviest possible model onto the base when held upside down. Test model is Turner Purisima Concepcion.
Base Magnet Mounting: Underneath bottom of base--I don't have my drill handy, and as a bonus while a more challenging method it allows more flexibility in test magnet placement.

Two magnets plus two washers: FAIL. Wouldn't even hold the ship in place against me BREATHING on it.
Four magnets plus four washers: FAIL. More resistive but ship still moves when base bumped.
Two magnets under base plus two on ship: FAIL. Ship is more hesitant but still moves.
Three " plus three " : CONDITIONAL Pass. Holds, but very dependent on bow and stern magnet pairs in close proximity.

Optimal solution so far: Determine minimum ship-length. Place two magnets that ship-length apart plus one at longitudinal center on base bottom; superglue two 3/16" washers at each corner as "feet." Place second group of three magnets on top of base, aligned with bottom magnets, smear with superglue and place ship on top. Stack double-layer 3/16" or smaller washers (to match model waterline beam on upper; lower can be wider) between the magnets as stabilizers since these magnets are usually narrow.

EDIT - Ideal solution: Drill two holes in base, 28mm over extreme edges, to glue REM's into; mount one washer at each end of ship spaced to fit with magnets. Two REM's in direct contact with the glass is strong enough to hold the biggest of 1/1000 Napoleonic-era ships even against gravity itself.

[Capn Duff]

Has a word with the chaps who made the bases, they are not putting on general sale as yet, but if anyone needs/wants any more bases they will supply, let me know when anyone requires more and I will start the ball rolling, or should that be bases swimming

[Bligh]

Thanks for your work on this Chris. I also saw your post which included demonstrating them at shows, which should help create a market for those who either print or have printed ships, or indeed those who build their own with models from other suppliers.
Rob..

[Capn Duff]

With a plethora of new hulls in my grubby mits and the plan to be printing off more hulls shortly I am going to see about ordering some more bases, does anyone else require/ want/ need any of the sails bases ?

[TexaS]

I haven't bought any white glue yet (my old got bad) so I'm going to hold off a little until I have finished some to see how I like them.

Initially they are great, don't get me wrong. I just don't know how it'll work without the peg holding it together. I've used blue tack on the Ares bases. I don't know how that will work out and until then, I'll wait a bit.

My thinking is gluing the ship to transparent plastic and then blue tack the top to the base and still have the possibility to change the ship card.

[Capn Duff]

I myself have tried two methods
First was to drill into the hull and make my own peg with plastic rod, however not tight so used blutac in the corners.
Second was to glue hull to the perspex with glue and blutac perspex into the corners of base. However this method be careful picking up the base as it can come apart.

Both work ok, not sure yet which I prefer. Would like to peg all hulls but not all the hulls are big enough to have a hole drilled i to for peg fitting.

[Bligh]

What I have been doing thus far is to drill out for a steel pin in the ship base, Super glue that in and drill a
corresponding hole in the base. Then add super glue to the pin and push it through the base. This of course precluded the ship having an alter ego, but I seldom do that anyway. I have both copies of almost all the Ares ships, excepting the Kickstarters, and intend to do the same for the new ships as and when I need them.

Rob.

[TexaS]

I’m painting my Spanish navy to have the ships that were at Trafalgar with the correct paint for 1805. Moreover I’m painting ships for Cape St Vincent, but since the Spanish had 27 ships there I don’t want to have to make them in addition to the Trafagar fleet, but be able to switch names on them and do Cape St Vincent with many fully correct, some speculative, and some just substituted. Otherwise my Spanish fleet would grow towards 50 instead of the 30 I’m aiming for now.

[Bligh]

I can understand that Jonas. looks like we need to get our thinking caps on then.

Rob.