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Coog
09-25-2012, 23:04
The Battle of Fayal was an engagement fought on 26 and 27 September 1814 during the war between the United States and the United Kingdom at the Portuguese colony of Fayal in the Azores. A British warship and several boats filled with sailors and marines attacked an American privateer in port. After repulsing two British attacks, the Americans won a tactical victory but they scuttled their ship the following morning to prevent her from being captured.

The Royal Navy ship HMS Plantagenent of seventy-four guns, commanded by Captain Robert Loyd, was sailing to the West Indies with two other ships for the Louisiana Campaign. The other ships were the thirty-eight gun frigate HMS Rota and the eighteen gun brig-sloop HMS Carnation. At night on 26 September, all three were in company and cruising in Fayal Roads when the spotted the General Armstrong, a brig of seven guns and with a complement of about ninety men. She was commanded by Captain Samuel Chester Reid who was not prepared to surrender his ship. First Captain Loyd ordered that a pinnace under Lieutenant Robert Faussett be sent from the Plantagenet to ascertain the nationality of the stranger in port. But when the British came within gun range of the American vessel and requested that it's crew identify themselves, Captain Reid declared that he we would fire if the British came any closer.

Rough tide water ended up starting the engagement, according to British reports Lieutenant Faussett couldn't stop his boat where he wanted to and it ended up drifting too close to the General Armstrong. The Americans then opened fire with their long 9-pounders and scored hits on the pinnace. Two men were killed and seven others wounded before it was able to retire out of range. Carnation then immediately moved in and anchored in front of the American to begin negotiations for a solution to the problem at hand. When discussing for a peaceful solution failed and now that the General Armstrong had fired the first shot in a neutral port, Carnation cut her cable and lowered four boats filled with heavily armed men and headed towards Captain Reid as he maneuvered his ship closer to shore. The first attack came at about 8:00 pm and when the American observed the incoming boats they maneuvered again to receive them. In the following skirmish, Carnation was kept out of range by enemy fire and the boats were repulsed with a loss estimated by Reid to be twenty dead and twenty wounded. One American was killed and another wounded.

At about 9:00 pm, twelve boats armed with carronades and filled with 180 marines and sailors from the Plantagenet and the Rota were towed into battle by the Carnation, which stopped out of gun range. There the boats divided into three divisions for another attack. Lieutenant William Matterface commanded the boats and Carnation was directed to provide covering fire. Loyd anchored the Rota and the Plantagenet a few miles away from the Americans and they did not participate in the engagement. Just after 9:00 pm the British headed forward, the boats advanced but accurate American fire and the current kept the Carnation from closing the range and she was damaged fairly. It took Lieutenant Matterface until about 12:00 am for his boats to reach the General Armstrong, largely due to the current but partly because of where Loyd had stopped his ships. While the Americans were waiting they offloaded three of their cannon and erected a battery. When the British arrived a boarding was attempted but the American gunners sank two of the British vessels before they could get close and captured two more and killed many with swords and musketry at point blank range. Lieutenant Matterface along with several other officers were killed and no one of sufficient rank survived to lead the remaining Britons.

Altogether thirty-six Royal Navy sailors and marines were killed in action, another ninety-three were wounded. The main action lasted over a half hour and only two Americans were killed and seven wounded in total, including Reid who was hit with a musket ball. Reid's men fired nails, knife blades, brass buttons and other makeshift projectiles from their cannon which reportedly caused severe pain to the surviving British. After being repulsed the British slowly rowed back to their ships and it was 2:00 am on 27 September when they found them. Captain Loyd's response to the defeat was sending the Carnation back to destroy the General Armstrong after daylight but when she arrived, American fire damaged her some more so she broke off the attack. A little later the Carnation appeared again but Captain Reid had already chose to scuttle his brig by firing one of his swivel guns straight through the hull, the vessel was boarded while she sank and the British set her sails on fire. Reid and his crew made it to shore and escaped, the British wanted to land a detachment to search for the Americans but the Portuguese governor prevented them from doing this. Captain Reid and the crew of General Armstrong were credited with helping delay the British attack on New Orleans and when they returned to America they were greeted as heroes.

csadn
09-26-2012, 20:31
Tell me, Coog: Are you finding *any* instances where the British win a "small ship action"?

Coog
09-28-2012, 23:37
I think there are some in my thread on French ships taken into the British Navy. I pass up posting a lot of actions I run across because there are no details to go with them. While my posts would be useful in forming a hypothesis, I believe a comprehensive source with all or least most of the ship actions of the period would be needed to make a scientifically valid conclusion. I would take a look at the quality of the ships as well as the crews as a variable. It would be a very interesting study if someone wanted to take the time to do it. With that being said, my next post is another British loss.

David Manley
10-01-2012, 16:40
Here's a little statistic or three that might encourage some deeper reading.

Between 1793 and 1815 the Royal navy lost 166 ships to enemy action. Five of those ships were ships of the line, the rest frigates or smaller vessels.

In the same period of time the RN sank or captured 1201 enemy warships, including 712 French, 172 Dutch, 196 Spanish, 85 Danish, 4 Russian, 15 Turkish and 17 American.

In terms of ship types those enemy losses amounted to 159 ships of the line, 330 frigates and 712 sloops or smaller warships.

Those numbers don't include privateers or other non-naval vessels (where the loss rates are well into 5 figures). Nor do they include actions mounted against shore batteries and other shore establishments.

For a navy that is supposedly crap at small ship actions a 6.5:1 success ratio is pretty good. Just think how awesome the RN would have been if it had actually been any good at it :D


It would be a very interesting study if someone wanted to take the time to do it.

Its been done, several times. You might want to try Professor Andrew Lambert or Dr Thomas Wareham for starters.

My internet connectivity is still pretty ropey and will be until at least Trafalgar Day, but I'll fill in some of the blanks if necessary when I'm able to post here regularly :)

Coog
10-01-2012, 19:15
Nice to see you back, if only briefly. If you have some books in mind by Lambert and Wareham you might post a book review(s) next tiime you get a chance.

Berthier
10-02-2012, 04:40
[QUOTE=David Manley;4968
Between 1793 and 1815 the Royal navy lost 166 ships to enemy action. Five of those ships were ships of the line, the rest frigates or smaller vessels.

In the same period of time the RN sank or captured 1201 enemy warships, including 712 French [/QUOTE]

much as I struggle to say it, I agree the figures speak for themselves, all those fine French ships...the horror, merde!

csadn
10-02-2012, 13:33
In the same period of time the RN sank or captured 1201 enemy warships, including 712 French, 172 Dutch, 196 Spanish, 85 Danish, 4 Russian, 15 Turkish and 17 American.


Hmm -- be interesting to break it out still further, and see what sorts of engagements led to what sort of results. For ex.: The War of 1812, and how the RN lost 5 of 6 1-on-1 shootouts.

Be the world's largest AAR. :)

HMS Vengence
10-03-2012, 00:54
For a navy that is supposedly crap at small ship actions a 6.5:1 success ratio is pretty good. Just think how awesome the RN would have been if it had actually been any good at it :D


Shhh! Don't disturb people with facts!

:p

Dave

Comte de Brueys
10-03-2012, 02:38
Here's a little statistic or three that might encourage some deeper reading.

Between 1793 and 1815 the Royal navy lost 166 ships to enemy action. Five of those ships were ships of the line, the rest frigates or smaller vessels.

In the same period of time the RN sank or captured 1201 enemy warships, including 712 French, 172 Dutch, 196 Spanish, 85 Danish, 4 Russian, 15 Turkish and 17 American.

In terms of ship types those enemy losses amounted to 159 ships of the line, 330 frigates and 712 sloops or smaller warships.

Thank you David. :D

I like Coog's diary, but with all this small vessel action we shouldn't forget who ruled the waves in the Napoleonic Age. (...without debasing the young US Navy)

csadn
10-03-2012, 14:42
I like Coog's diary, but with all this small vessel action we shouldn't forget who ruled the waves in the Napoleonic Age. (...without debasing the young US Navy)

My point is: I wonder how many of the actions the RN won were "the RN fired a shot over the bow, and the enemy promptly surrendered". Never mind how many of them were the result of "merchantman volleyball" (that is: Side A captures Side B's merchie; on the way home, Side B recaptures the merchie; repeat ad nauseam).

Given the RN court-martialed anyone who lost a ship (other nations *might*; the British were remarkably consistent), as well as the expectation the RN would win ("morale is to physical as three is to one"), it comes as no surprise that when a RN ship of any size was attacked, there would be a fight to the finish; whereas most other nations in most cases only put up token resistance, or none whatever. So, I'm wondering: Of the small-ship actions where the other side actually put up full resistance, how many did the RN win? (And: No, the British victory is not in dispute here -- tho' there is the small matter of the ten-year lag between Trafalgar and Nappy getting shipped off to St. Helena.)