Starter sets.

[Bligh]

Well shipmates. The reissue of the Starter Sets has finally made a landfall.
They are birthed at Entoyment, who set me a PM today to say that they had shipped my parcel.
I will let you know when it arrives at Chez Bligh.

Rob.

[Naharaht]

That is good to hear, Rob. :thumbsup:

[Comte de Brueys]

You bought another Starter Set, sir? :question:

[Bligh]

Got one for shows my dear Comte. I decided that I was disquieted by having to turn down would be sailors who play the game and then have to be told that they can't buy a set anywhere on the showground. If they are keen enough I will sell this one on at the price I got it, and then order another one from Entoyment with the money recouped until their stocks run out. Then I will look elsewhere for any remaining until the prices get too silly. That way at least a few new sailors might get a chance they would otherwise not have.

Rob.

[Diamondback]

Hope it works for your Press Gang, shipmate. I really wish Ares would consider putting together a second variant and rotating "A" and "B" starter sets every run... we got tons of reprint potential in the first four sculpts, and deco and paper changes are cheap.

[Bligh]

That would be an excellent idea DB.
How is it that we punters can come up with all these innovations and be totally ignored. They can't all be marketing model catastrophes can they?
Rob.

[Diamondback]

"We don't totally ignore you, we gave you what you wanted for Wave 4, didn't we?" :p

Especially since for many of these ships "repainting" can be as simple as just playing Musical Flags... paint and paper are cheap, cheaper still if just existing parts assembled in a new way.

[Bligh]

Not getting at you DB.
I regard you as one of us, not an apologist for Ares Games. You are doing your utmost to make things better for everyone and this is much appreciated. I just wish they would pay more attention to your good ideas.
Rob.

[Diamondback]

I know, my friend, just trying to blow off a little steam myself. :) Then to drill into "what would this quick, negligible dev cost idea take and what are the barriers to doing it?"

If they make a second Starter variant with all-new ships, that's two guaranteed sales from me, and I bet same from most of our fellow members here, while the straight reprint I'm sitting out. The only reason I have multiple BHR's is to give as gifts for other naval history buffs I know, and the only reason I'm looking for another Victory is to do swaps to a more correct hull for Britannia and (unreleased) 1756 Royal George, turn the resulting extra SGN108 minis into two of a mix including 1803 Victory (108 is the Trafalgar version, 201 is As Built), 1810 Boyne and 1811 Union (basically downgraded sister hulls).

[Bligh]

I actually got another Victory to do Britannia swapsie, but the good Captain Kiwi did not have one so it eventually went his way. I therefore am with you on this one. A pair of different Starter sets, and a couple more HMS Victorys would go down a treat
Rob.

[Capn Duff]

I second that Rob

[TexaS]

I do too. Especially if you by "a couple more HMS Victorys" had meant more hero ships like HMS Indefatigable and Nuestra Señora de la Santísima Trinidad.

When they redo the set I wonder how much work it would be to swap out paintschemes for the ships and paint them in a new variant. I'd say that the painting "program" in general is there in kickstarter ships and two more varians already made, you'd just have to define new colors for the small differences.

[Diamondback]

I do too. Especially if you by "a couple more HMS Victorys" had meant more hero ships like HMS Indefatigable and Nuestra Señora de la Santísima Trinidad.

When they redo the set I wonder how much work it would be to swap out paintschemes for the ships and paint them in a new variant. I'd say that the painting "program" in general is there in kickstarter ships and two more varians already made, you'd just have to define new colors for the small differences.
For the Amazons and Slade 74s, we already have four different hull decoes and three different flags, which can assemble into a total of twelve different models with 24 different logs, of which we respectively have 4 and 8. So it would be child's play to reshuffle the deck with only new logs needed for eight new SGN102/104 packs, and could probably do similar with 101/103. The Waves 2-4 sculpts don't have quite as much flexibility, but still have some off-the-shelf without even new paint masks.

Just to spitball an idea... let's say a Sails version of the Wings WWI/WWII Rules & Accessories Packs were developed. What all would need to go into it, and what all potential "Value Adds" would motivate you guys to shell out or more of what you already have?

Known "must-have" components:

Rulebook
Ship Mat set
Counter Set
One of each Terrain Pack



Possible "Value Adds":

Hardcopy boards of the SGN116 Indiaman log
Additional new Ship Logs for existing sculpts
?


Remember, we're trying to think "quick, cheap paper only" here... a Terrain Pack with notable historical forts would take a lot of artwork and design time, but as a "paper product" it shouldn't need that much back-end production to print and ship. Problem is there wouldn't be a lot of "repeat purchase" value...

[Bligh]

The additional ship logs would be the easiest fix if the available ships were used as you say. Do you envisage them also having a new printed ship card and base card to go with the new logs thus completing a totally new ship as such? The Victory models could then be named for those ships that they really resemble.
Rob.

[TexaS]

When you talk of twelve ships doubling into 24 it's actually just four ships if you like me remove the flags? You just talk about a lot of printed cards and none of changing the miniatures?

Nothing will make me buy new ships except new models or new paints on the same models. I will buy an old ship from time to time if I have a new project in mind, but I don't really need more ships and I have enough of all the ones they have made now.

[Diamondback]

The additional ship logs would be the easiest fix if the available ships were used as you say. Do you envisage them also having a new printed ship card and base card to go with the new logs thus completing a totally new ship as such? The Victory models could then be named for those ships that they really resemble.
Rob.
Rob, I envision all-new paper to go with those new flag/hull combos, creating totally new ships to fill out the roster.


When you talk of twelve ships doubling into 24 it's actually just four ships if you like me remove the flags? You just talk about a lot of printed cards and none of changing the miniatures?

Nothing will make me buy new ships except new models or new paints on the same models. I will buy an old ship from time to time if I have a new project in mind, but I don't really need more ships and I have enough of all the ones they have made now.

Jonas, not everybody is as adventurous as you are... heck, if I had budget I'd ask you if you'd be interested a custom job doing cut-and-splices to stretch my Ville de Paris and Hibernia up to proper lengths. Thought on this was trying to spitball some "quick and cheap" ideas using existing components as much as possible to give Ares a quick cash-flow boost that might get the pump primed again for bigger and better things. That's Ares' real problem, they're trying to do big-company projects but they only have small-company finances and are undercapitalized... and by hitching their wagon to a Licensed Property horse, they've put themselves in a position of dependency upon that IP between having to keep the licensor happy to keep the license and having to keep the license's fans happy above all others to maintain revenue stream. This is why I frankly hope they never pursue a Disney POTC license... if they do, the Mouse will insist that its IP drive the bus and kick us to the curb.

[Capn Duff]

I have a large number of models, mainly for my Trafalgar project, but I also have a number of other ship inserts and logs made for existing models.
I would like to see some special as already mentioned if we cant get new sculpts.
For the mentioned rules pack, would we really need the terrain set?
I do think it would be easier and cost effective to keep existing sculpts, for most ships, and just change the paper , logs, cards and inserts. We could get a load of extra ships.
Something else possibly that could be done, a new KS for the specials and re-issue of the first KS specials aka Belleraphon, as its a KS not going against the promise not to release in general.

[Diamondback]

I do think it would be easier and cost effective to keep existing sculpts, for most ships, and just change the paper , logs, cards and inserts. We could get a load of extra ships.
Something else possibly that could be done, a new KS for the specials and re-issue of the first KS specials aka Belleraphon, as its a KS not going against the promise not to release in general.
Chris, I was trying to look to the Wings RAP's for inspiration. Could probably skip the TP's as long as sufficient availability is maintained. Problem with KS is, retailers hate 'em because they see KS offerings as competition, and Ares is on thin ice at the retail level at least where I live. Then again, a second-chance Kickstarter of just the KSE's, and maybe some added new KSE redecoes, might give things a shot in the arm...

[Capn Duff]

Hi DB right thought the KS could be used to update the starter set with new items not only for new players but established also.
Like the RAP option as although I have already made a number of inserts etc, professionally done ones be much better.
Know hat you mean about retail, in UK issue seems to be at distributer level, know a number of retailers who want Sails but cant get hold of items.

[TexaS]

What I was talking about is that new sculpts is very expensive for molds for plastic, but repaints shouldn't be that expensive. Repaints and new ship cards for the British and French 74s would make me buy them. It's also "needed" for Trafalgar. But if they did that, repaint of those two, they'd get two new ships with four new names to them, and that shouldn't be that expensiive for them.

I personally would be in on a Kickstarter, but I have been kind of boycotting KS due to them treating their employees like... well...

[Bligh]

The KS with the three KS ships I don't have would certainly prompt me to buy it.
Rob.

[Baxter]

Can anyone tell me what ships are included in the reprinted starter set please? The answer is probably here somewhere but i missed it.:question:

[Diamondback]

SS01 Courageuse/Unite
SS02 Genereux/Aquilon
SS03 HMS Terpsichore/don't remember
SS04 HMS Defence/don't remember

Same as the original...

[Capn Duff]

Hi Gary
As far as I know the ships are the same as in original.
That been the case they are brit 3rd rate HMS Defence/ HMS Vanguard french 3rd rate Genereux/ Aquilon
Frigates brit HMS Terpishore/ HMS Meleager french Courageuse/Unite
Hope this helps

[Baxter]

Thanks. I was hoping they had made them with 4 different ships. That would have encouraged folk to buy them again if they already had the first box.

[TexaS]

Looking at the codes for them you could almost guess that might have been the idea early on. SS for starter set and then two numbers giving the possibility for 99 ships.

It would have been a great chance to just print new ships cards for the ships, SS05-SS08. If there's a mention of the names in scenarios in the rulebook they could just add a paper saying that SS01 equals SS05 and so on.

[Bligh]

Spot on with the Starter Sets. I got those ships in mine.

Yes a re-badge would have made for a lot more interested parties.

DB has already suggested this for ships.

Rob.

[Diamondback]

Looking at the codes for them you could almost guess that might have been the idea early on. SS for starter set and then two numbers giving the possibility for 99 ships.

It would have been a great chance to just print new ships cards for the ships, SS05-SS08. If there's a mention of the names in scenarios in the rulebook they could just add a paper saying that SS01 equals SS05 and so on.

Actually, it's SS## and KS##, where ## = the last two digits of their mainline sculptmate. SGN104=SS04=KS04 and so forth. I'd expect a Redeco Starter to be SS01B to SS04B... the problems with SS05 etc is that Wave 1 is the only set that's "self balanced" and thus lends itself to a balanced fight without needing additional items. Put a squadron of HMS Hibernia and USS Thorn up against any Hebe and any Ocean, and the Anglo-American player is at a serious handicap...