View Full Version : 29 kilometers away from L‘Hermione
Comte de Brueys
08-31-2019, 11:01
Looks like I spend a few days in range of the famous French frigate rebuild! :shock:
Home Harbour of L‘Hermione is Rochefort. 29 km away from me.
The blue arrow on the map is my position.
Stay tuned...
Go for it Sven.
I had to cross the Atlantic to see her.
Rob.
Vagabond
09-03-2019, 09:17
Sven, If you get to see her will you post some photo's here please.
I was in Rochfort a few years ago but didn't see her. It must be interesting for the Captain getting up the Charante River it's very twisty and from memory runs quite strongly.
Probably the same way she came into Yorktown, under auxiliary engine power.
Rob.
Comte de Brueys
09-03-2019, 12:10
Rochefort is hard to master with the tide action.
I think you need some rudder boats to pull here into the docks.
I‘ll report...
DeRuyter
09-03-2019, 12:34
Here's a couple of photos from her trip to the US.
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Captain - still serving as such today.
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You can catch a few shots of Hermione in Yorktown here.
https://sailsofglory.org/album.php?albumid=335
The first picture is Bligh meets Washington. This was arranged by Richard Schwab who knew the guy playing General Washington from his re-enactment days.
Rob.
...and here are some photos of the l'Hermione in Rochefort in Summer 2018:
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Super pictures Achim. That takes me back a few years.
Rob.
Hey, Fort Louvois is in that neighborhood too!
Just south of the action we are fighting Dobbs.
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Rob.
Comte de Brueys
09-04-2019, 06:45
Saw this one too,yesterday.
Comte de Brueys
09-04-2019, 06:49
A few pictures for you.
Not much text because I send them with my mobile phone.
But it was really impressing to see that ship!
Comte de Brueys
09-04-2019, 06:54
Everything was well explained, from sailing, rigging, cannons, navigating, etc.
Some pictures on the side again, I’ll correct this next week.:help:
Comte de Brueys
09-04-2019, 06:57
At the moment the ship is repaired and the workers are busy with all the work that is to do to keep the ship in a sailable condition.
The white flag carries the names of al sponsors.
DeRuyter
09-04-2019, 08:50
Very nice tour of the ship. When I was onboard I was told that one of the 12 lb guns is an original dating to the 18th century!
Comte de Brueys
09-04-2019, 10:15
Yes, up to 3 guns on board are originals. The rest - full metal - reproductions.
The things I missed were the gunports and a more nice Stern section.
But a great experience to be on board.
DeRuyter
09-04-2019, 10:29
Yes, up to 3 guns on board are originals. The rest - full metal - reproductions.
The things I missed were the gunports and a more nice Stern section.
But a great experience to be on board.
Yes I thought it strange that there were no gun ports! I understand this was not uncommon for French ship design. I believe they did have some covering for heavy weather though. Someone on the Naval Action PC game forum is a crew member and often posts about the ship.
Comte de Brueys
09-04-2019, 12:09
Yes, they have something to close the gunports vs. bad weather.
It‘s closed from inside.
...and the guns are fixed in the „barrel out“ position.
Even more great pictures Sven.
Rob.
Vagabond
09-04-2019, 15:47
Thanks everyone for the photos, especially Eric's first one, that is a beautiful ship.
Super pictures Achim. That takes me back a few years.
Rob.
Thank You. :hatsoff:
I made an album with some more.
Just looked at your Album John The scenics look even better enlarged.
One bit of nit picking though, if you don't mind me mentioning it. Your Palm trees want cutting down a bit. They are higher than the masts of your ships.
Rob.
A very instructive album Achim.
More Kudos to you.
Rob.
Comte de Brueys
09-06-2019, 01:58
Nice album indeed! :salute:
Vagabond
09-06-2019, 07:42
Just looked at your Album John The scenics look even better enlarged.
One bit of nit picking though, if you don't mind me mentioning it. Your Palm trees want cutting down a bit. They are higher than the masts of your ships.
Rob.
I think you might be on the wrong thread Rob but you are right, the palms should be about half the size they are, what glue do you use for these flexible trees?
On topic, how do I find Achim's album?
I've half a mind to spend some time in Spain this winter, and Rochforte would be on my route there. It's quite an exciting thought.
I was on this thread when I went and looked at your album John.
Rob.
Finally managed to get this present from Tikkifriend framed.
It now has pride of place over my new Wargames table.
Better late than never Paul!
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Rob.
Vagabond
02-23-2020, 15:15
I'm sorry to resurrect this thread but I visited Hermione today and just wanted to thank you all for the inspiration to make the trip, especially Sven who raised it in the first place. When I get chance I will look through the photos I took and see if any add to the collection already posted.
I also went round the Marine Museum which had some lovely models. I did try to persuade Mrs V to buy me a model of the Hermione, they were excellent but at E840 and E1200 she declined and I had to settle for some postcards instead.:sad:
We had a long talk to one of the volunteers who built, sailed and maintain the ship, she proved a mine of information but I had to correct her on one occasion when she refered to the British stealing Concorde, the sister ship to Hermione and where they got the working drawings from to build Hermione. I explained we did not steal her but captured her in a fair fight, although to be honest I don't know if it was a fair fight.
We had a bit of fun discussing the relative merits of our nations ships and navy's and as I consider the longer French ships to look nicer than the more chunky British ships she was very happy with that admission.
If anyone gets the chance I would suggest making the effort to see her, I thoroughly enjoyed my day.
Cheers
That is great John.
I'm glad you enjoyed your visit to see her.
I have a photo I took of her in Yorktown as my desktop, and a cutaway section picture that Paul sent to me hangs proudly over my Wargames table.
The only Hermione I have is the model and I'm afraid she never sailed the Atlantic. She had to fly!
https://sailsofglory.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=14827&d=1434269057
Rob.
Comte de Brueys
02-24-2020, 02:27
Glad, you made it to the ship, John.
The feeling on board has a special touch even lying in a dock.
If you imagine to serve there for month with all kind of weather, work and navigation.
Naharaht
02-24-2020, 18:46
Looking at all those great photographs of L'Hermione, which the others took, you must have had quite an experience visiting her, John.
Vagabond
02-25-2020, 13:11
The volunteer we spoke to, said that there was a crew of 300, half sailors and half soldiers on the original ship, they crew the ship with 80 volunteers. I found it hard to envisage 80 people on board let alone 300.
A couple of years ago I went round Victory in Portsmouth dock yards and it was before I was interested in SofG but I thought then how cramped it was and how low the deck heads were, I was constantly crouched over. On the Hermione there was enough room for me to stand upright between the top 2 decks. The big thing I didn't realise was that the top deck was cutaway, presumably to let light and air into the next deck down.
Rob - I'm impressed you flew your model to see the real thing.
Naharaht
02-26-2020, 10:20
You have to remember that people were not as tall in those days, John. :)
You have to remember that people were not as tall in those days, John. :)
Good one Dave.http://www.wingsofwar.org/forums/images/smilies/th_happy_186.gif
Rob.
Diamondback
02-26-2020, 11:23
For size perspective... I'm 5'6" and just under 200lb., and per DM it sounds like I woulda been considered huge by period sailor standards, to the point that when I was thinking about designing a home office after a frigate captain's cabin he made a good case to look at a three-decker's flag bridge instead.
Landlubber contrast, a US Army horse cavalryman even at the end of the pony soldiers could be no taller than I am but weigh no more than 120lb.
I am 5ft 7 and just clear the deck beams on HMS Victory excepting the ones in the bilges which I discovered to my cost a couple of years back.
Rob.
Vagabond
02-27-2020, 02:54
Sorry I probably wasn't clear with the meaning of my observation which was that on Victory (a big ship) I couldn't stand upright but on Hermionie (a small ship) I could stand upright. I wondered if the difference was size of ship, i.e. they tried to get more into the same cubic volume on a larger ship or was it difference in French and British design.
I believe French ships were slightly longer than British ships for a similar type of ship and I wondered if they also had more height. It's probably only about 6 to 12" difference per deck.
I don't imagine French sailors were any taller than British sailors but it seems they had a better space to work in, but it might be the difference between a frigate and a Ship of the Line, rather than nationalistic ship design.
I'm about 5'9" so I'd be interested in any comparisons with other replicas.
Cheers
The interesting thing about the height of people in the past is quite interesting.
Research on the Mary Rose, at the Towton burial ground and the plague pits in London leads to the conclusion that the people of those times were not very different from us up until after the Second World War. The last two generations seem to have put on a spurt in growth.
Rob.
Vagabond
02-27-2020, 04:45
The interesting thing about the height of people in the past is quite interesting.
Research on the Mary Rose, at the Towton burial ground and the plague pits in London leads to the conclusion that the people of those times were not very different from us up until after the Second World War. The last two generations seem to have put on a spurt in growth.
Rob.
It's the school milk that did it, or maybe MacDonald's burgers.:wink:
My biggest question is if it's difference between nationality/size or if it's in fact the difference between original and reproduction. The East India ship Götheborg was modified to be able to handle modern people and work regulations so that two decks were made into one and increasing the height of the orlop. I don't know if such considerations were made when they built L'Hermione.
As far as possible, traditional construction methods were used although modern power tools were substituted for the period tools on some jobs. The site is open to the public, and admission fees help fund the project.
English plans of a sister ship, Concorde (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Concorde_(1783)), were used. The cost was estimated to be $22 million. The original plans had been modified in several ways for reasons of strength and safety: planks had been bolted rather than pegged to avoid movement during the long period of construction. Similarly, the mast sections were fastened with glue rather than metal hoops to avoid water penetration. The cannons are lightweight and non-functional to save weight, and for legal and safety reasons. Hemp (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp)rigging (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigging) was used, and the sails made of linen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linen).
I know, but naval regulations have her have an engine, radar, GPS, and life rafts and so on or she will not be allowed to set sail at all. There are numerous differences from the original plans. The only question is how much.
That was all the info I was given Jonas.
Maybe we should get in touch with them and find out?
Rob.
Vagabond
03-09-2020, 09:53
I know, but naval regulations have her have an engine, radar, GPS, and life rafts and so on or she will not be allowed to set sail at all. There are numerous differences from the original plans. The only question is how much.
That's a very good question Jonas, I saw the modern instrument panel but it was very small and discreetly hiden I didn't see any evidence of a radar dome liferafts or other modern equipment but they are probably dismantled when she's in port on display. I didn't get the impression that they had altered the build to change deck heights, as Rob said they used the Concorde for measurements but that doesn't make it a fact.
DeRuyter
03-09-2020, 10:25
I know, but naval regulations have her have an engine, radar, GPS, and life rafts and so on or she will not be allowed to set sail at all. There are numerous differences from the original plans. The only question is how much.
That's a very good question Jonas, I saw the modern instrument panel but it was very small and discreetly hiden I didn't see any evidence of a radar dome liferafts or other modern equipment but they are probably dismantled when she's in port on display. I didn't get the impression that they had altered the build to change deck heights, as Rob said they used the Concorde for measurements but that doesn't make it a fact.
In the US Coast Guard regulations mostly address safety and are most strict if you want certification to carry passengers. In my limited experience I still see original plans adhered to as much as possible. The two most obvious departures are watertight bulkheads and engine/generator equipment. Of course you also have life jackets and the emergency life rafts. Much of this modern gear can be hidden in various ways, especially when docked. On Kalmar Nyckel the engine controls were hidden in a binnacle on the quarterdeck. The Captain still had to relay orders to the helms man below on the whipstaff just as originally done. On the helm we steered by a standard compass while the electronics were in a corner hidden from general deck view. I must admit to cheating and looking over from the helm to check them now and then!
The Niagara is an example of using original plans as much as possible. Being a lake ship she was very cramped below and if you are taller than 5'4" or so you will be stooping. Unlike many replicas/reconstructions her below decks, berth deck I think, was intended for public view as well.
One rare example of a replica built with out any modern technology was Batavia. No engine or watertight bulkheads and no modern synthetics (until her manila lines rotted that is) she was taken on a barge to Australia for her big voyage. She did sail there however to recreate her original fateful arrival.
Very interesting information Eric.
I hope even more info on this interesting topic will be forthcoming in the future.
Rob.
Even the wikipedia article lists L'Hermione as having an auxiliary engine and I remember seeing her under engine entering a canal in a video.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_frigate_Hermione_(2014)
It also lists other differences: "The original plans had been modified in several ways for reasons of strength and safety: planks had been bolted rather than pegged to avoid movement during the long period of construction. Similarly, the mast sections were fastened with glue rather than metal hoops to avoid water penetration."
Just the sort of thing we are after Jonas.
When she docked in Yorktown we knew she was under engine power, and onboard saw her navigation panel, but very little else to note in the parts of the ship to which we had access.
Rob.
In the Indiaman Götheborg in the lower aftmost cabin, with all the windows, there's a double door cupboard you can open up to reveal a tv and gaming console. There's often a lot of hidden modern stuff. Gotheborg, La Grace and Tre Kronor all have modern GPS and sonar.
Rafer J Larwood
03-10-2020, 01:56
Does that mean I can use GPS and radar to avoid rocks and islands next time I play? Would help, as would an auxiliary engine for when the wind changes, lol
No need to go to thosde extremes Raffer. You only have to ask, and I won't put them in your drink.
Bligh.
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