View Full Version : Prepainted quality of different waves/ships?
Anybody else got a badly painted ship in the later batches?
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I did notice some of the black paint on the fighting tops missing on a couple of mine Jonas.
Rob.
I wish I only had that. The black on the lower part of the hull looks like the painter was drunk.
I thought that the hulls were printed, not painted. I thought we were safe from buying child labour. How is the situation in China in this regard?
Just shows how out of touch I am. I thought they were sprayed by a robot using an airbrush.
Rob.
I wonder if unpainted models would have been a better idea? Cheaper to produce and easier for us to modify.
I can imagine buying blank 74s by the dozen and customizing them as needed.
Capn Duff
06-14-2018, 17:51
I noticed haphazard painting in wave two onwards, I had to retouch up the hulls on a few of my first rates as well as the Victory.
Masts are now only painted , it seems , at the tips rest is a touch on the mast tip and the rear facing and bottom
Naharaht
06-14-2018, 21:38
Did Ares switch manufacturers?
Just shows how out of touch I am. I thought they were sprayed by a robot using an airbrush.
Rob.
That's what I meant by "printed". Basically an ink printer able to print a 3D surface.
My second wave first rates have been first rate. They have the same look as the first wave of ships. My two Victories are very well painted (before I started).
My other Spanish ships were much better painted, but I could see that they are hand painted as there were some much smaller mistakes there too. As long as it's not child labour I don't mind as long as it's well done. This Mahonesa is really awful.
I wonder if unpainted models would have been a better idea? Cheaper to produce and easier for us to modify.
I can imagine buying blank 74s by the dozen and customizing them as needed.
I think that that they are prepainted has appeal and gives them a niche in the market that they otherwise wouldn't have.
My Bonhomme Richard needs some touching up where red paint bleeds down onto the black portion of the hull. Minor touch up of a really annoying area is all that's needed at this point.
I wonder if unpainted models would have been a better idea? Cheaper to produce and easier for us to modify.
I can imagine buying blank 74s by the dozen and customizing them as needed.
I think Jonas is right here Michael. It is a bit of a juggling act. Do you pander to the many who can't or won't do repaints, and those who just don't have time and wish to play straight out of the box, or the few who will buy a lot of ships to convert. Let us be honest here, the few of us will still buy a lot and then repaint them. How many of us are put off by the fact we need to repaint? Most of us have been doing it for most of our lives.
Rob.
David Manley
06-16-2018, 01:58
The big draw for the game is, as with "Wings..." the "play out of the box" aspect. Selling unpainted minis would have left the game in a similar position to existing 1/1200 AoS ranges (albeit without the need to assemble which for some is a pain in the backside). I doubt it would have got off the ground.
Totally agree Dave.
You have put very succinctly what I was trying to say in my roundabout fashion.
Rob.
A few years back, I had suggested to Ares that they offer unpainted and unassembled minis in addition to the painted ones, but they thought it would not be profitable.:sad:
Comte de Brueys
06-16-2018, 06:26
... I thought we were safe from buying child labour. How is the situation in China in this regard?
Handpainted - yes, I think so.
But I won't blame child labour for this ugly paintjob. :question:
A few years back, I had suggested to Ares that they offer unpainted and unassembled minis in addition to the painted ones, but they thought it would not be profitable.:sad:
:hmmm:Could have had the best of both worlds Dobbs.
Rob.
Bilge Rat
06-16-2018, 18:55
It seems to me that it’s just luck of the draw who painted the miniature you purchase. I’ve had two ships of the same wave, one with a really sharp paint job and the other requiring a total repaint due to smears of black all over the upperworks...really poor workmanship, but when you consider that you are paying less than $20 for a miniature, base, maneuver cards and ship log I guess they are still pretty good value.
Capn Duff
06-16-2018, 19:30
Well thats subjective Steve, here in UK we dont pay $20 per model, unless you find a sale the minimum for a third rate is between £20 -£25 wich is between $26 -$30+ so if bying a couple of ships we now talking $60 as a minimum not an insubstantial sum.
So getting the base and deck mat does not become a good value if you have to repaint or touch up when the philosophy is to play out from the box.
I agree it seems to be pot luck with paint job and I personally repaint the spars and masts on my ships
Of course there are bargains to be had as I recently found.
Even I who repaint ships were drawn to the kickstarter by the concept of prepainted miniatures.
Normally I just paint the sails, spars and masts. That's not something I thought I would do early on. Then I painted the spars and masts and realized how much better that looked. Then I did a mess and to cover it painted the sails and thought that also did a real difference. Now I usually do that and rig them too. What I show off here on the other hand is mostly those that has gone through more of a work over.
I tend to just do the essentials which often includes the masts. I have toyed with rigging, but with well over 100 ships it is a daunting task. If I had started with them from the beginning I would not have balked at it so much. Now, however, I am locked into my storage system which precludes my rigging the ships.
Rob.
Just counted them. 64 painted and rigged ships, which is probably about half. Somehow there always seems like I'm missing ships anyway. I thought the other day that I liked the french 64, even though it's a merchant with all the guns, and wanted to fix, paint up and rig another. Turns out I only have one.
Capn Duff
06-17-2018, 09:03
Most of my SOL now rigged though not as detailed as you do Jonas, still a number of frigates to complete
Bilge Rat
06-17-2018, 10:29
Well thats subjective Steve, here in UK we dont pay $20 per model, unless you find a sale the minimum for a third rate is between £20 -£25 wich is between $26 -$30+ so if bying a couple of ships we now talking $60 as a minimum not an insubstantial sum.
So getting the base and deck mat does not become a good value if you have to repaint or touch up when the philosophy is to play out from the box.
I agree it seems to be pot luck with paint job and I personally repaint the spars and masts on my ships
Of course there are bargains to be had as I recently found.
If I had to pay that much for them, I’d be playing something else, that’s crazy, though not unexpected. UK prices are ridiculous for just about everything. (I know ‘cos I go back there every couple of years). On the other hand our healthcare costs are a joke. (Not a very funny one).
I can actually buy ships from the States and providing they slip through customs, they are cheaper even with the postage than those bought here. The Oberst and Miniature Market even deliver faster than most of the stores in this country. The exception to this being Green Knight who usually deliver within two days.
Rob.
Bilge Rat
06-17-2018, 16:14
I get 99% of my SoG and WoG from Miniature Market. They are pretty cheap and they arrive within 2-3 days.
Chris, I'm impressed by your tenasity and speed of painting and rigging your ships. I'll get there, eventually…
I also buy from MM. My last shipment took a little over three months.
The Swedish Royal Post was privatized and the resulting PostNord is awful! Probably went from one of the best in the world to one of the worst and most expensive. It's not privatization but the monopoly position combined with the old government bureaucracy that really makes it bad.
:shock: That is appalling Jonas. I really feel for you. next time I start complaining about Parcel Farce just remind me how much worse your service is.
Rob.
I realized that my drive to paint the Spanish ships is really low. That's 12 ships that might not ever be painted, and it's not just the scale creep but actually to have to change the official stats to make the ships even vaguely historical is very off-putting. I really hope Ares will straigthen up if they do another wave.
Do anyone know if they have any plans? They said they wanted all ships for Trafalgar. Do they think what we have is good enough? The most obvious missing ship to me would be the British 98.
Where do we stand on the "What would we like next" question?
Captain Duff has done a lot of work on the stats of all the ships for Trafalgar, so he may be able to help with the problem Jonas.
The British 98s seems to be an obvious choice for several similar moulds.
I am sure that DB has done a lot of work looking at the most common ship types still to produce.
Rob.
It's not giving them stats, but that I have to use inofficial stats instead of Ares stats that I find troubling.
I don't mind fudging some general rule or making up stats for a missing ship. It's the disqualification of the official rules of all ships of one side that gives me a bad taste.
I've found that the balance between English and French have been unusually good, placing quality of the seamen in the ships cards. For the Spanish all cards in the game can't compensate for the very strange values.
But for a full wave we need another three ships.
Capn Duff
06-19-2018, 04:01
Hi Jonas, I have done some work with the Spanish Trafalgar fleet so hope this helps.
I have done a reprint of the ship mats reducing by 1 the values for the Spanish Triple deckers which I can send you if you om me your email, they are sized and ready to be printed out. The only thing being they have my marking system on so you will have to cover over that.
Ship wise I have used Peter Goodwins book The ships of Trafalgar as a base and if we are prepared to accept the Ares Bahama model, yes it is incorrectly sized, but we can use this and the other Spanish 74 to give us all the ships as the sizes differ little according to the source book.
So I have used this a a base for all the ships, for the Spanish 64 I have taken the Bahama stats and reduced by 1 and for the Montanes 80s taken the higher base stats and left alone.
Not perfect but they work and only ourselves will know. Depends if you are prepared to accept the Bahama as a base.
I believe Clipper is still looking at doing a remodel of the Santa Anna which should give the Spanish three deckers a boost.
As I say not perfect but the San Justo and San Leandro all have similar specs and seem to have been built similar to Bahama model so really its up to you .
If you want all the Spanish ships reduced that is an ingoing project I have set myself except real life is hampering things currently.
But if I can help in anyway to give me a shout
Capn Duff
06-19-2018, 04:03
For the Brit 98’s I have used the Royal Sov model and used the lower based stats, seems to have worked
The difference between the British 2nd rates and the 1st rates were often if that individual ship had added or removed a few guns. Not a very big deal, stat-wise. Not terrible model-wise either, but I would like to have a model (in scale).
The Spanish should really be compared broadside weight to broadside weight with all the previous British and French ships. An 80 gun ship should basically have the same values as a 74 with the same calibre guns, only a little slower degrading with damage. If you look at the damage span between the British 1st rates and the French 74s you have a very small span to fit an 80 gun ship.
If the new values aren't researched and well motivated I wouldn't feel I could discard Ares values. I don't think "a little less wrong" is good enough to divert from Rules As Written. That is my main problem with all the Spanish and a bit with the 64s.
Capn Duff
06-19-2018, 06:08
Good points Jonas and I understand your points.
We all agree the Spanish are poor compared to the earlier British and French.
I intend to go through the fleets and compare the broadside weight to get some perspective, the only problem I have is limited info on the Spanish but I will use what unfo I have and post the comparison at a later date
You must be getting faster at typing Chris. Your t9 and ge5 are very reminiscent of some of the stuff I'm typing as I get faster. I'm either hitting an adjacent key or more than one at a time.
Last reply I made I signed off Riob.
It is good fun looking to see what people really mean to say though.
Rob.
You are very much right Chris. Time and good sources are always in demand.
And to remember when a comparison is actually made to make sure what unit the caliber is in. Swedish "pund" or "skålpund" isn't the same as the Russian or British. If I remember correctly a Swedish 24 lb gun would be 22 lb in British and the Russian are heavier than the British. I can't remember how heavy the Spanish pound is right now. If you can get weights in kg, it's preferable.
Capn Duff
06-19-2018, 15:58
Sorry Rob, finger trouble now been edited.
Jonas yes understand the difference in weights I shall try to convert to make the data usable
No worries Chris.
I just found another of mine from some time back.
The stats I have checked for the French and British guns seem to fit very well to your changes Chris.
As for the Spanish fleet all I can go on are the Trafalgar ships and those captured by the British.
Rob.
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