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Herkybird
05-01-2017, 13:10
Over the weekend, I had a quick go at Sails again, pitting 2 38 gun frigates against the Constitution, historically it was in early 1814, when Constitution was sighted by two British 38 gun frigates (HMS Junon and HMS Tenedos) off the coast of Massachusetts. On that occasion, they didn't come to blows!

The write up of what happened is on my blog Herkybirds nest (http://herkybird-richardbradley.blogspot.co.uk/2017/04/running-foul-of-americans.html)

I hope you find it amusing?

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SeaDog7
05-01-2017, 13:21
Nicely done and very entertaining!

Bligh
05-01-2017, 14:54
A very dangerous opponent Richard.
If both of you had raked her with double shot you might have done it, but I never have managed it.
Thanks for the action.
Rob.

Herkybird
05-01-2017, 14:57
A very dangerous opponent Richard.
If both of you had raked her with double shot you might have done it, but I never have managed it.
Thanks for the action.
Rob.

I know this has been mooted here before, but do you think USS Constitution is a little over-rated in Sails of Glory?

Bligh
05-02-2017, 01:41
I think that it is a bit too powerful.
When I get time I will try it against one of the sixties and see how that goes.
Rob.

David Manley
05-02-2017, 12:00
The model and stats more than adequately reflect the myth and legend

Capn Duff
05-02-2017, 17:46
A rather short game, I can see why discretion etc, must admit not having played with or against the Constitution although did see DM HMS President in action a couple of years ago. Ill have to have a go with one of the new Portlands and see if it does any damage

Herkybird
05-03-2017, 13:14
Yes, it lasted less time than it took to set the game up! Such is the luck of the chits!

Dobbs
05-03-2017, 20:59
Well, let's see. An Amazon frigate as a broadside of 16 12-pounders, and an American heavy frigate has a broadside of 22 24-pounders, so by weight of shot alone, the two Amazons would have been outmatched. That said, I think the Constitution as described in SoG is too powerful and have modified mine.

Bligh
05-04-2017, 01:59
Sea trials should take place today.
Rob.

Bligh
05-04-2017, 04:49
Here are the results of the first sea trial.
I pitted the weaker version of Constitution burden 5 60 guns against the burden 4 64 gun Argonaut.
To ensure fairplay, both ships started level with no wind advantage, were loaded with double shot for first time fire only, and no small arms or boarding was allowed. Both ships were AI controlled.

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Starting positions.


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Jockeying for position.

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Closing on fighting sails only.


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The first broadside.


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The butcher's bill.


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Both ships evidence approximately the same amount of damage.


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More maneuvering whilst reloading.


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Argonaut gets off a forrard battery shot.

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Constitution turns but is just out of range.

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An end chase ensues.


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Constitution turns and gets off a rear battery shot.



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Argonaut ripostes.


By this time bot ships were reduced to one point of fire each so I called it.
As you can see from the ship mats they were pretty evenly matched.

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Next time I will pit two Amelia 38 Frigates against the Constitution and see how they perform.


Rob.

Herkybird
05-04-2017, 13:42
Great report, thanks! Nice to see those pesky colonials getting a good load of damage!

Bligh
05-04-2017, 14:15
If nothing else, it shows how well your Solo AI rules work Richard.
Both ships behaved very well.
Rob.

Herkybird
05-04-2017, 16:43
If nothing else, it shows how well your Solo AI rules work Richard.
Both ships behaved very well.
Rob.

Thanks Rob! (Blush!) :embarass:

Dobbs
05-04-2017, 18:46
Rob, was your Constitution tweaked in any way? I remember a few months ago, we were talking about reducing its damage soak ability.

Herkybird
05-05-2017, 00:34
Hi all, I have tweaked the solo rules to match what I think all of us who use it are already doing, in that it now allows the solo ship to shoot from its forward arc.
The rules can be downloaded from this LINK (http://herkybird.tynesidewargames.co.uk/sailsofglory.html) ( - as always, if you have already visited that page, you may need to reload the page to see the new version! - I hate Caches!!!)

Bligh
05-05-2017, 01:42
Thanks Rob! (Blush!) :embarass:

Too modest by far Richard.:wink:
Rob.

Bligh
05-05-2017, 01:49
Rob, was your Constitution tweaked in any way? I remember a few months ago, we were talking about reducing its damage soak ability.

Good morning Dobbs.
For this trial no ships were modified in any way. I was attempting to be true to the original question, "do you think USS Constitution is a little over-rated in Sails of Glory?"
The only concession that I made was to use the early version of the ship mat.
My reasoning being, that if this proved too powerful, then the later version probably would also be.
Rob.

Bligh
05-10-2017, 13:50
With a bit of time to spare today I trialed the two Frigate scenario against Constitution. Pitting a 38 and 34 against the large American looked like a no brainer. Did I get a big surprise!

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Set up with the same rules as the last trial.

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The ships close.

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An unexpected AI move by the British Frigates.
They seem to be running.


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A directional change and all ships get to fire a first double salvee, catching Constitution only able to reply with a part battery.( This will raise a question for later)

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How things stand after the first exchange.
Constitution has a lot of crew casualties.


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The ships are busy reloading.


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Amelia and Constitution go broadside on wit first volley from their other sides.

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The situation is now stands like this.

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As the ships reload Amelia taken aback last move is now on the wrong tack.


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As Amelia wears ship she exchanges long range fire with Constitution.

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We are now here.

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The telling blow! Despite having lost a lot of firepower Sibille gets off a first double shotted raking broadside on Constitution.


Here is the result.

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I was not expecting that outcome at all.
Maybe Constitution is not over rated after all.
I now invite my shipmates to emulate these results so that we can get a better range of results.

Rob.

Bligh
05-10-2017, 13:56
Now the Question.
If Constitution had been able to reply to both Frigates with her fore and aft battery rather than a broadside she would have actually delivered a heavier weight of chits than the broadside could. I know ships are not allowed to split fire in this way, but there must be some mismatch here!
Rob.

Capn Duff
05-10-2017, 15:44
Didnt think you could split a broadside between two targets, Ill check the rules but I was under the impression it was always the closest target, if equidistant then you chose which

Capn Duff
05-10-2017, 19:14
Sorry Rob, after re-reading your post, you did not say you could split the broadside, Ive cleaned my glasses now, silly me

Bligh
05-11-2017, 02:52
No worries Chris. It was simply the fact that the firepower from the two arcs being greater than the sum of the broadside that i was really interested in.
My long winded way of saying it must have misled you.
It was either that or the Port talking.:wink:
Rob.

Herkybird
05-11-2017, 04:09
I always wondered if firing a full broadside, and splitting the total chits randomly between the 2 targets might not be a bad way to go if shooting at 2 targets, or use the rear shooting arc total, split, if neither ship is in the full broadside arc?

David Manley
05-11-2017, 09:16
Engaging two targets from the same broadside was a degree of fire control somewhat ahead of what was commonly achievable in the period.

Bligh
05-11-2017, 13:18
Thanks Dave. It is always good to get it from a reliable source rather than rely on Naval Fiction novels or even worse TV Films.
Rob.

Bligh
05-13-2017, 04:18
Researching further brought me in contact with this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU3w3-jSMB0

Rob.