Latest wave of ships.

[stuh42asl]

Well received a nice large box, with one of each of the new ships. And placed an order for GHQ Santissima Trinidad. So now I have almost 60-70 ships. How about you guys, anyone stocking up on the new ships?

Shane

[Naharaht]

They have not sailed across the Atlantic yet, Shane.

[Diamondback]

Order awaiting funds to pay for it here...

[Comte de Brueys]

One Spanish 1st rate, one Spanish 3rd rate (under RN flag) and two of each (French/RN) of the smaller vessels. :moneygone:

[Bligh]

Well received a nice large box, with one of each of the new ships. And placed an order for GHQ Santissima Trinidad. So now I have almost 60-70 ships. How about you guys, anyone stocking up on the new ships?

Shane

How does the 1:1200 Santisima compare Shane?
Is the scale differential very obvious?
Rob.

[stuh42asl]

Hi Rob

I ordered it yesterday, since it is coming from Alberta, Canada, and it is Christmas time......I should get it ohhhhhhh, when I reach my retirement age. :) I will see the size, at 1:1200 scale it is not to far off from the 1:1000 scale sails of glory ships are.
I would have ordered it from Langton, or Red Eagle in your neck of the woods, but the cost to get it to Canada would mean I would pay as much as I did on the model. I hate Canada Post, and import duties..........So I expect it to be about 2% smaller than the Sails of Glory ships. I will also try to rig it as well. My eyesight for small work is getting worse,but I have a lot of good examples here to go by.

Shane

[Nightmoss]

I've been setting money aside for this wave for over a year, so I ended up getting two of each model. No base card flipping for me. :happy:

[Nightmoss]

How does the 1:1200 Santisima compare Shane?
Is the scale differential very obvious?
Rob.

Rob, photos in my album compare the two ST's from GHQ and Langton. Silver is GHQ and red is Langton. I don't have a shot of the Ares ST version I did, side by side with either of these, but the 1/1200 ones are definitely smaller. I doubt that would matter on a game table, but for some it might?

http://sailsofglory.org/album.php?albumid=216&attachmentid=8401

[stuh42asl]

Rob, photos in my album compare the two ST's from GHQ and Langton. Silver is GHQ and red is Langton. I don't have a shot of the Ares ST version I did, side by side with either of these, but the 1/1200 ones are definitely smaller. I doubt that would matter on a game table, but for some it might?

http://sailsofglory.org/album.php?albumid=216&attachmentid=8401

If the GHQ is smaller.........that is fine, the alternative is to wait another year for the SOG ship to come out. BTW does anyone here have a copy of the ship card and the ship display they could share with an old landlubber:)It would make a 50 year old a very happy boy.

Thanks

Shane

[Bligh]

Thanks for that comparison Jim.
As you all say, if indeed it is only one year to wait we will do well.
I may have to bite the bullet and accept the slight size anomaly.
As one gets older actually making a decision gets harder, and I have been umming and arring too much about this one,
Rob.

[Nightmoss]

If the GHQ is smaller.........that is fine, the alternative is to wait another year for the SOG ship to come out. BTW does anyone here have a copy of the ship card and the ship display they could share with an old landlubber:)It would make a 50 year old a very happy boy.

Thanks

Shane

Shane, I did a very very rough version on this thread. The numbers were guesses/approximations at best. With the arrival of the Santa Ana and her daunting broadside I do wonder just how powerful Ares might be tempted to make the Santisima Trinidad? I've never even thought about making a ship log for my kitbashed ST.

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?2631-My-Latest-Project&highlight=santisima+trinidad

[TexaS]

I just would want to compare the broad side weight of Santissima and perhaps HMS Victory before determining the stats. Something I think Ares forgot to do when deciding the stats for Santa Ana.

[Bligh]

That would indeed seem to be the case Jonas.
Rob.

[MWBell]

Well received a nice large box, with one of each of the new ships. And placed an order for GHQ Santissima Trinidad. So now I have almost 60-70 ships. How about you guys, anyone stocking up on the new ships?

Shane

With the exception of purchasing just one each of the Spanish 1st Rates, I got two each of everything else. They are currently blockading the Christmas Village beneath our tree (so much for the traditional train set!). Now waiting for ARES to develop a couple Spanish frigates and the Santissima Trinidad to finish off my wife's armada and hoping for a few US ships (like the Chesapeake, Constellation, Essex, etc.) for myself ... as well as maybe a few brigs and merchantmen? ... and I'll be satisfied. I've already outgrown my storage space. I need a bigger box!

[Bligh]

We all need a bigger box Michael.:sad: Then we get one. Then we complain about the lack of ships.:minis: Then Ares release them.:happy: Then we buy them. :moneygone:Then we need a bigger box.:sad: Then we get one. :happy:Then we.........

I refer you to the thread "I am a Sails addict because........."

Have a very Happy Christmas Mike,:singin: getting seven bells knocked out of you by your wife's incomplete Fleet:cry:, and think how much worse it would be if she also had two more Frigates and Santissima Trinidad also backing her up.:girlie:
Rob.:hatsoff:

[Nightmoss]

Ares has updated the point values .pdf to include the new ships. File can be downloaded here:

http://www.aresgames.eu/11269

[Bligh]

Very useful Jim thanks.
I have just downloaded.
Now the real work starts.
Rob.

[Nightmoss]

You'll note very quickly I'm sure that the Santa Ana is ranked one point over HMS Hibernia. Where does that put Santisima Trinidad if/when she comes out I wonder?

[Bligh]

A very good question Jim.:shock:
:question:I imagine surrounded by British 74s.:wink:
Rob.

[Naharaht]

Thank you for the 'Heads up' about the new version of the points table, Jim.

[TexaS]

You'll note very quickly I'm sure that the Santa Ana is ranked one point over HMS Hibernia. Where does that put Santisima Trinidad if/when she comes out I wonder?
Keeping in mind the difference between HMS Victory and Santissima Trinidads in broadside weight is 40lb and Victory being a better sailer I would say at about that points value. That is of course if Ares doesn't make up unexplainable values for it as was done for Santa Ana.

But I guess they imply that the Spanish should have all bad traits possible for their sailors to make historical outcomes even possible with those stats for the ships...

[Bligh]

That opens up a whole extra world of questions Jonas. It depends exactly what type of play individual gamers would prefer. I am against setting artificial stats just to push people into adopting the Special Abilities if they don't want to take them on board. If that were indeed the idea.
Rob.

[Dobbs]

I don't know much about the Spanish ships, but it seems to me that the game should reflect the ship's innate capabilities, and anything such as rate of fire and handling should be left to the players. I do find the "9" broadside hard to imagine.

[Bligh]

From what we know about Spanish gunnery at sea it is ridiculous Dobbs. Or as we would say in the U.K. a trifle hard to swallow old chap.
Rob.

[Hjl]

Perhaps someone could run the Hibernia against the Santa Ana and see if the single point is justified. I can't imagine the Hibernia would come off the victor most of the time.

[David Manley]

I've dropped an email to Roberto and Andrea to see if they can shed any light on the Santa Ana mystery :)

[Bligh]

Thanks Dave.
It is a bit of an interesting situation amongst one or two others.
Rob.

[Union Jack]

Wasn't there apoint about the larger, very large 3 deckers (Spanish) having trouble opening the lower gunports in anything but good weather for fear of flooding?

[Bligh]

A very good point Neil.
I'm sure that we can work some thing around that to make them more player friendly.
Rob.

[Union Jack]

I'm loathe to go down the Langton route and restrict french Spanish sailing and gunnery whilst enhancing the British et al. Otherwise why choose the nations with no chance. If you want historical accuracy then there's house rules otherwise lets keep it a fair playing field and fun.

[Bligh]

I think what sparked this off Neil was the fact that the Spanish new releases seemed to be unfair by being overpowered for the number of guns.
I am now waiting for Dave to get a response from Roberto on his query.
Rob.

[TexaS]

Yes, the Spanish is game-wise overpowered and historically-wise overpowered.

I easily forgive game-wise overpowered if motivated by historical facts and I easily forgive if you downgrade historically overpowered for game purposes. What I have a trouble with is unmotivated overpowered ships.

It will be hard to use them ever in any smaller ship on ship encounter due to them being so strong, and in fleet actions they will make for very un-historically balanced scenarios where the very funny historical quote from the Battle of Cape St Vincent never will have it's place.

"There are eight sail of the line, Sir John"
"Very well, sir"
"There are twenty sail of the line, Sir John"
"Very well, sir"
"There are twenty five sail of the line, Sir John"
"Very well, sir"
"There are twenty seven sail of the line, Sir John"
"Enough, sir, no more of that; the die is cast, and if there are fifty sail I will go through them"

[TexaS]

Ares version:

"There is a Meregildos, Sir John"
"Very well, sir"
"There are two Meregildos, Sir John"
"Very well, sir"
"There are three Meregildos, Sir John"
"Very well, sir"
"There are four Meregildos, Sir John"
"Enough of this, sir, we will head for home"

[Bligh]

By Jove I needed that.:happy::happy::happy:
Bligh.

[Hjl]

I won't be getting the Spanish ships any time soon, not enough money at the moment. I will however eagerly read any aar's from you fine people!

[Nightmoss]

If you want an age of sail historical simulation Sails of Glory is not the 'game' for you. You have plenty of other rule sets to choose from (including rules from members of our site I believe?). On the other hand any game that introduces OP elements into the mix where players are consistently opting for the best ships you're at risk of ruining overall game play.

It has to be about balance if you're going to have an engaging game where everyone can have fun.

Do I want to play if the British are always going to win? No.
Do I want to play if the French are always going to win? No.
Do I want to play if the Spanish are always going to win? No.

Feedback from Ares on the Santa Ana will be an interesting read if/when we get anything from them.

[MWBell]

Wasn't there apoint about the larger, very large 3 deckers (Spanish) having trouble opening the lower gunports in anything but good weather for fear of flooding?

Neil,

Some months ago I tried to work out what the formula was that ARES used to determine their ships' broadside strengths. :question: I found that when I calculated in a lesser percent for the lower gun-deck on 1st Rates, hypothetically due to slower reloading time and "rough sea" restrictions, the formula actually matched up with their stats. :hmmm: I recall there were only two ships out of their whole series (and I'm talking from 1st Rates all the way down to their Sloops) that were 1 point less than my formula prescribed ... I don't recall if the two were 1st or 3rd Rates ... regardless, that was an easy fix. :thumbsup:

I don't have my notes immediately at hand but I believe there were three different percentage factors used based on gun weight and perceived reloading speed; deck location was the final factor which "broke the code"! Believe me, I will be pulling them out to evaluate the firepower of these new ships ... especially the 50 gunners ... before I work up their ship mats! :fixit:

[Diamondback]

Neil,

Some months ago I tried to work out what the formula was that ARES used to determine their ships' broadside strengths. :question: I found that when I calculated in a lesser percent for the lower gun-deck on 1st Rates, hypothetically due to slower reloading time and "rough sea" restrictions, the formula actually matched up with their stats. :hmmm: I recall there were only two ships out of their whole series (and I'm talking from 1st Rates all the way down to their Sloops) that were 1 point less than my formula prescribed ... I don't recall if the two were 1st or 3rd Rates ... regardless, that was an easy fix. :thumbsup:

I don't have my notes immediately at hand but I believe there were three different percentage factors used based on gun weight and perceived reloading speed; deck location was the final factor which "broke the code"! Believe me, I will be pulling them out to evaluate the firepower of these new ships ... especially the 50 gunners ... before I work up their ship mats! :fixit:

Michael, if you're interested--I don't know if anyone has the creds to give you appropriate access with Eric on Extended Family Leave, but I'd like to nominate you as a candidate for the Anchorage Stats Committee. :)

[MWBell]

Michael, if you're interested--I don't know if anyone has the creds to give you appropriate access with Eric on Extended Family Leave, but I'd like to nominate you as a candidate for the Anchorage Stats Committee. :)

Really? :shock: I'm flattered ... no, I'm HONORED! :embarass: I'll accept your nomination, I only hope I can live up to the task if instated. As I've said somewhere before, I've not nearly the knowledge of the period that so many members of this site have.

In the meantime, I think it's time I pop the cork on my Pusser's and pour a glass! Happy New Year!! :happy:

[Bligh]

I can't allow the access, but I would PM Keith DB and see if he will do it.
I agree with you that we could do with Mike on the Stats Committee.
Rob.

[Diamondback]

Email sent to the Big Guy. :)

UPDATE: Sounds like you're in. Thanks, Boss! :)

[Diamondback]

Really? :shock: I'm flattered ... no, I'm HONORED! :embarass: I'll accept your nomination, I only hope I can live up to the task if instated. As I've said somewhere before, I've not nearly the knowledge of the period that so many members of this site have.

In the meantime, I think it's time I pop the cork on my Pusser's and pour a glass! Happy New Year!! :happy:

We've been scratching our heads on some of Ares's stats for years, and if you've broken their code you're EXACTLY the kind of person who belongs on the team. :)

[stuh42asl]

Afternoon Rob

Well I have recieved the Santissima Trinidad model to day. It is smaller than the third rates but that is fine with me, but it is a very detailed model so it will be a good addition.
So it is on to the workbench to put it together.

[Bligh]

I look forward to seeing it Shane.
Just for a laugh I was looking at Amazon prices for the ships and came across this




https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51U4stUWYlL._AC_US200_.jpg (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sails-Glory-Ship-Pack-Imperial/dp/B01A9NBP3S/ref=sr_1_104?ie=UTF8&qid=1483386889&sr=8-104&keywords=Sails+of+Glory)


Sails of Glory Ship Pack - Imperial 1791 Board Game by Ares Games (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sails-Glory-Ship-Pack-Imperial/dp/B01A9NBP3S/ref=sr_1_104?ie=UTF8&qid=1483386889&sr=8-104&keywords=Sails+of+Glory)
by Lion Rampant Imports Ltd

£448.62 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sails-Glory-Ship-Pack-Imperial/dp/B01A9NBP3S/ref=sr_1_104?ie=UTF8&qid=1483386889&sr=8-104&keywords=Sails+of+Glory)+ £3.99 delivery
Only 1 left in stock - order soon.


Toys & Games:See all 91 items (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/search/ref=sr_nr_seeall_104?rh=k%3ASails+of+Glory%2Ci%3Atoys&keywords=Sails+of+Glory&ie=UTF8&qid=1483386889)



I would want it made of gold for that price.
Mind you I see that the Anchorage Store is already out of some of the latest wave releases.
Rob.

[stuh42asl]

I look forward to seeing it Shane.
Just for a laugh I was looking at Amazon prices for the ships and came across this




https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51U4stUWYlL._AC_US200_.jpg (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sails-Glory-Ship-Pack-Imperial/dp/B01A9NBP3S/ref=sr_1_104?ie=UTF8&qid=1483386889&sr=8-104&keywords=Sails+of+Glory)


Sails of Glory Ship Pack - Imperial 1791 Board Game by Ares Games (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sails-Glory-Ship-Pack-Imperial/dp/B01A9NBP3S/ref=sr_1_104?ie=UTF8&qid=1483386889&sr=8-104&keywords=Sails+of+Glory)
by Lion Rampant Imports Ltd

£448.62 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sails-Glory-Ship-Pack-Imperial/dp/B01A9NBP3S/ref=sr_1_104?ie=UTF8&qid=1483386889&sr=8-104&keywords=Sails+of+Glory)+ £3.99 delivery
Only 1 left in stock - order soon.


Toys & Games:See all 91 items (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/search/ref=sr_nr_seeall_104?rh=k%3ASails+of+Glory%2Ci%3Atoys&keywords=Sails+of+Glory&ie=UTF8&qid=1483386889)



I would want it made of gold for that price.
Mind you I see that the Anchorage Store is already out of some of the latest wave releases.
Rob.








Yeah definately out of gold for that price. I shop here in Canada, but I still shake my head at the prices. Kind of like Evil Bay. The seller has to be on glue to get that price........ Especially when I can go to Mepplemart in Toronto and get it for less than $20 Canadian. That is why I wish we had a Langton store here. The UK has some of the best miniature makers going, especially for Napoleonics. In Canada we have to get it imported. And it costs. It was 47 dollars just to get the Santisima Trinidad model to me from Alberta.
I think that is what is killing hobby stores. It is not so much the cost of the item, but it is the cost of shipping both to the store and then to you. And the duty fees for packages over $100 is ridiculous.

[Nightmoss]

Shane if you want to get Langon miniatures from vendors in the US you might want to try Waterloo Minis?

http://waterloominis.com/

While it's been some time since I ordered from them, they were very fast and had good replies to my inquiries.

Another spot in the US is Brookhurst Hobbies. I've ordered nothing from them so I cannot tell you much more than that they have some of the products from Langton in their online catalog.

http://www.brookhursthobbies.com/index.cfm?N=10

Cheers.

[TexaS]

Somebody else noticed that the jib and fore staysail on the British 50s are bulging into the wind?

Same with the French 64...

[Diamondback]

Could it just be the stays got installed backward?

[TexaS]

No. They are molded with the bulge in the opposite direction of the spanker. If you turn the spanker toward the wind the ship could be in the middle of tacking. (And turn the yards...)

[TexaS]

27038

27039

[Bligh]

Someone made a bit of a gaff there then!:takecover:
Rob.

[TexaS]

:happy: :thumbsup:

Very funny!

[Dobbs]

My first thought is cut 'em off, sand them to an angle that works on the right tack, glue them back together, and re-install. I like your take on it, Rob. but wouldn't it be more appropriate to say, "I don't like the cut of their jib"?

[Diamondback]

*groan* Last stinker I experienced that bad was the aftermath of Operation Fartjar...

:p

[Bligh]

My first thought is cut 'em off, sand them to an angle that works on the right tack, glue them back together, and re-install. I like your take on it, Rob. but wouldn't it be more appropriate to say, "I don't like the cut of their jib"?

Indubitably Dobbs.
Although from DB's response, we could both be sailing too close to the wind.
Rob.

[Diamondback]

LOL, bear in mind my sense of humor is stunted in growth and warped at best.

*:smack:s French just on general principle* :D

[Bligh]

That's pretty mild DB.
I was expecting a full


:shootright::shootright::shootright::shootright::shootright::shootright::shootright::shootright::shootright::shootright::shootright::shootright::shootright::shootright::shootright::shootright::shootri ght::shootright::shootright::shootright::shootright::shootright:


Sorry! Delete the first gunport and replace with an extra one at the stern. They messed up again.:wink:

Rob.

[Diamondback]

GET OUT OF MY HEAD, ^&^$%^&^&*^ YOU! :bleh: There are things in there that are for the GF's mind and mine only... :sly: (Let's just say being involved with a semi-feral cougar starting to explore her wild side can be "interesting" and leave it at that.)

LOL

[Bligh]

Well that's women for you.:takecover:
Rob.

[Diamondback]

Yeah... I fully expect to croak from a heart attack in her bed, but what a way to go if your Ace of Spades has to hit the table. :) LOL

(Sorry, it's almost 1AM after a long day here and my mind starts doing weird things when fatigue sets in... and the Sawmill From Hell at the other end of the suite is not helping at all.)

[Bligh]

No worries DB.
I just trust that you get a good nights rest.
Sleep well.
Rob.

[fisher40k]

Are we still waiting? Can't find them on the Internet here in UK.

[Bligh]

As far as I know they are not released here yet Carl.
The British lads will have their eyes out for the first sign of any, so we will soon get the tip off.
I am waiting to get the other side of the card ships, having pre ordered the full set from Keith at the Anchorage Store here on the site. He is already starting to run out of stock however.
Rob.

[Nightmoss]

Somebody else noticed that the jib and fore staysail on the British 50s are bulging into the wind?

Same with the French 64...

That means 12 out of the 24 ships I purchased have misrepresented sails? I won't even bring up the scale issue I think is going on with the Spanish First Rates!? This is rather disappointing.

[Bligh]

We should start a sweep stake Jim.

"How many mistakes do you think the Santisima Trinidad will have if it ever actually arrives?"

Rob.:sad:

[David Manley]

Moan, moan, moan, its getting like the Aerodrome here :happy:

(mutter, mutter " triplane upper wings", mutter, mutter, "Staaken trench".....)

[Diamondback]

Moan, moan, moan, its getting like the Aerodrome here :happy:

(mutter, mutter " triplane upper wings", mutter, mutter, "Staaken trench".....)
"Bf109K wingtips and tailgroup..."
It's like people expect some accuracy in their minis! What audacity, what utter unmitigated gall I tell you! :p

[David Manley]

Wargamers these days don't know they're born. When I started these were the cutting edge of wargaming.....

http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/SetScans/AIR1705c.jpg

[Bligh]

I shall write a strongly worded letter to the Times.
Bligh.

[David Manley]

By the way, no answer from Andrea or Roberto re the 9 gunnery factor.......

[Diamondback]

Wargamers these days don't know they're born. When I started these were the cutting edge of wargaming.....

http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/SetScans/AIR1705c.jpg

Walked to school TWO MILES, UPHILL BOTH WAYS, in SIX FOOT SNOW, and LIKED IT, did you? :p lol

[David Manley]

Actually 4 miles, and we had to scale a cliff......

[Diamondback]

I hate smug people.

:p lol

In all seriousness, if Ares pulls a WOTC Messerschpitt this is me...

https://youtu.be/vXLLH1eSOZE

[Naharaht]

I used to own some of those Airfix miniatures.

[Bligh]

When I was a lad, those hills were mountains, and we had an Ice Age to contend with.
Good thing was there were no schools to have to go to.
If they had been any, our toy soldiers would have looked like this.


27109

Rob.

[David Manley]

Love those expressions. Just what were they looking at I wonder? :)

[Nightmoss]

We should start a sweep stake Jim.

"How many mistakes do you think the Santisima Trinidad will have if it ever actually arrives?"

Rob.:sad:

I expect most folks wouldn't notice, or even care, about some of the mistakes in Wave 3? As for the ST Ares may have more leeway as I don't think there are any documented plans anywhere in existence?

[Bligh]

That could be a good or bad thing depending on how you look at it Jim.:happy:
Rob.

[David Manley]

There's also an assumption that the drawings accurately reflect the ship, which I can tell you now, they do not necessarily do today, even in the age of CAD!

[Bligh]

Maybe we should just go with the flow as regards dimentions then Dave, and just cuss about the wind being freaky today.:happy:
Rob.

[Diamondback]

The Russian naval archives in St Petersburg have ST plans, and they even built a slightly scaled-down copy.

[David Manley]

Maybe we should just go with the flow as regards dimentions then Dave, and just cuss about the wind being freaky today.:happy:
Rob.

I am aware of one member of a class of modern warships that is a metre shorter than her classmates because of some small build errors that accumulated, and one of my colleagues fell foul of trusting ships drawings rather than measuring at ship when he prefabricated a module which then didn't fit as the available space wasn't as shown on the drawings. And that is with modern drawing and modeling techniques. Imagine the scope for error in drawing and building in the 18th and 19th centuries

[David Manley]

The Russian naval archives in St Petersburg have ST plans, and they even built a slightly scaled-down copy.

Yes, that source and the Spanish archives have been well laundered by the scale model community. There are at least two sets of ST plans commercially available (or at least there have been in recent years)

[Bligh]

I can well visualize how it happened Dave.
We once completed a fabrication where all the spars were handed as to the hole placings for bolts.
When we came to assemble the structure all the bolt holes had been drilled in left handed mode, and there was nothing wrong with those working drawings. Only cost 10K to rectify. Murphy's Law strikes again.
Rob.

[Diamondback]

An old friend who used to work in a Puget Sound breaker's yard before he took up bus driving once told of a WWII escort-carrier he was dismantling where they found a complete, never-used machine shop because that prefab section had been misinstalled so there was no hatchway through the bulkheads around it. (The ship's machine shop, after dismantling, relocation and reassembly, was still serving him well when we last spoke a few years ago.)

Happened more than once with various spaces, they even found one ship with a fully stocked armory. "Garands and 1911s for Everyone!"

[Naharaht]

The new ships may have reached the U.K. now because I have seen an internet games shop based in the U.K. advertising them for sale.

[Capn Duff]

Gamesquest are showing these now in stock, the Spanish 74 @£19 and 112 @£21

[Bligh]

Thanks for the information shipmates.
I can now start getting my duplicate 74s.
Rob.

[Naharaht]

GamesQuest is where I saw them advertised. I was a bit dismayed by the price rises but I suppose thoseare the consequence of the fall in the value of the pound owing to the Brexit vote.

[Capn Duff]

Unfortunately price is about what
I was expecting, even taking into account the Obersts discounts a 74 was $16 and the three deckers $18, current exchange rates are around £=$ which means 74 £16 and 100+ £18 add to that postage $40 = £40 divided by the number of ships say all 12 adds another£2 to the price, unfortunately we then have the tax and handling charge, if caught by HMC&E adds possibly anothe £1.50 no matter what the oberst adds to the packaging the customs are taking greater interest it seems an we all know about the Royal Mail £12 handling charge for posting a piece of paper to say they have the models :( so I was expexting a price around £18 to £22.
Of course other shops may offer lower prices as time goes on, but
Im pretty sure this series will go fast due to the nature of the ships portrayed. I ordered the Spanish and hope to pick up the others around the shows this year

[Bligh]

That does, however, make the Anchorage store much more competitive now. Hence my proclivity to support Keith by purchasing from him. If you divide the charges out by the number of times you manage to dodge the tax, it works out quite well.
Rob.

[TWR]

I'm soon to order some additional models, but wondered which people would select and why, particularly from an historical perspective.

Which Spanish 1st Rate model would you select and why?

I plan to purchase a single 50 and a 60, one for the French and one for the British. Which would you select and why?

I will also purchase two of the Spanish 3rd Raters, but the choices here are simple.

[Nightmoss]

I'm soon to order some additional models, but wondered which people would select and why, particularly from an historical perspective.

Which Spanish 1st Rate model would you select and why?

I plan to purchase a single 50 and a 60, one for the French and one for the British. Which would you select and why?

I will also purchase two of the Spanish 3rd Raters, but the choices here are simple.

Keith, from a historical perspective I've been waiting for the Santa Ana since they announced and released HMS Royal Sovereign. The battle between these two ships at Trafalgar has been of special interest to me since I got into this period of naval gaming. I will acknowledge that the current firepower of the Santa Ana may be extreme compared to other First Rates in the game, but that won't stop me from trying a one on one, or similar battle, between these two ships that stems from their historical exchange at Trafalgar.

[Bligh]

I agree with Jim.
If you are only going to buy one three Decker it has to be the Santa Ana because of the historical importance of it at Trafalgar. As the Flagship of Vice-Admiral Ignacio Maria de Alva y Navarrete, it played a pivotal role in the battle. I only wish that Ares would issue Captain and Admirals' ability cards with important ships such as these.

Rob.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignacio_Mar%C3%ADa_de_%C3%81lava_y_Navarrete)

[TWR]

Thank you both for the suggestion and reasons. Much appreciated.

Any thoughts on the 50 & 60 gun ships?

[Bligh]

The only ones that I was very keen to get was HMS Leander because it was at the Nile.
We are doing Sven's Nile at Doncaster this year.

Rob

[TexaS]

Both HMS Leopard and HMS Leander were famous for their "affairs". The Chesapeake–Leopard Affair and the Leander Affair. Both make them interesting from a historical perspective. I bought both due to that.

[Bligh]

I only mentioned Leander as Keith only said he was getting one of each type.
T clear the position up, I did buy all of them myself Jonas.:minis::minis::minis::clap:
Rob.

[TexaS]

I did not. I only bought one each of HMS Leopard, HMS Leander and Artésien.

The Spanish on the other hand... two of each.

Worth mentioning is that I somewhat base my buys on which painting scheme I think look good and don't care what flag Ares put on it as I will remove them anyway.

[Bligh]

I was thinking of changing HMS Bahama back to Spanish colours Jonas.
Rob.

[TexaS]

I will sail all my Spanish ships under Spanish colours.

[Nightmoss]

I agree with Jim.
If you are only going to buy one three Decker it has to be the Santa Ana because of the historical importance of it at Trafalgar. As the Flagship of Vice-Admiral Ignacio Maria de Alva y Navarrete, it played a pivotal role in the battle. I only wish that Ares would issue Captain and Admirals' ability cards with important ships such as these.

Rob.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignacio_Mar%C3%ADa_de_%C3%81lava_y_Navarrete)

Cards like that would be very nice indeed. If/when we see the Santisima Trinidad perhaps we'll have the cards then? Here's hoping so.

[TexaS]

Or they could actually release a deck of cards like the one in the kickstarter but add more captain cards perhaps.

[Union Jack]

It would be nice to see at least 1 if not 2 (for the 2 choices of ship) Captains card to go with each ship. That would make it unique and a nice shall I shan't I addition to games.

[Bligh]

Glad you like the idea shipmates, now all we need is for our men with contacts to convince Ares.
Rob.

[Hjl]

Has anyone found a points list or updated the spreadsheet for the new ships?

[twsl]

I haven't seen an updated spreadsheet yet and until my ships arrive I don't have all the stats needed to do it myself.

Points values however on the Ares download site are in an updated pdf and includes wave 3 I believe.

http://www.aresgames.eu/get/SGN000X-PointValues-EN-103-web.pdf

Hope it helps.

[Bligh]

You are quite right Alan, it is up to date.
I downloaded it last week.
Rob.

[Hjl]

So it is, they just need to update the label.

Task, could you do the spreadsheet? If so that would be fabulous!

[Capn Duff]

6 Spanish Ships including 2 three deckers sailed into Bristol harbour this morning.......... pretty.
Now to get them rigged for Beachead in a few weeks

[Bligh]

Good news.
I look forward to seeing them Chris.
Three of mine had their first outing yesterday.
Rob.

[Capn Duff]

Been looking at the Spanish 3 decker.... my isnt it tidgy compared to the British and French ones.
I always imagined the Spanish ships to be large for some reason

[TexaS]

They may be a little smaller than they should be but they should still be clearly shorter than the French Océan-class.

[Nightmoss]

Been looking at the Spanish 3 decker.... my isnt it tidgy compared to the British and French ones.
I always imagined the Spanish ships to be large for some reason


They may be a little smaller than they should be but they should still be clearly shorter than the French Océan-class.

They are most definitely smaller than they should be. You don't even have to measure, you can clearly eye ball the difference in waterline to deck, beam and length of the Spanish 1st Rates vs. the British. As The Ocean class should be larger than any (even the Santisima Trinidad). DB posted some useful information here, including some 1/1000 comparison drawings.

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?4349-A-new-threat-to-the-British-Fleet&highlight=merigildos

[Bligh]

They may be smaller than they should be Chris, but they can punch above their weight.:shock:
I wonder how the Langtons look alongside them!:wink:
Rob.

[Nightmoss]

They may be smaller than they should be Chris, but they can punch above their weight.:shock:
I wonder how the Langtons look alongside them!:wink:
Rob.

Funny you should ask that Rob. I decided to pull out my Langton 1/1200 Santa Ana and take some photos next to the Ares version. I honestly was not surprised to see they're almost identical in size. Even the sails on the 1/1000 Ares Santa Ana aren't that much larger!? I think I know one person who is going to enjoy this revelation. Rory, never wanted Ares to go 1/1000 on their ships, and at least for the Spanish First Rates, it almost looks like they were modeled at 1/1200?

27434

27435

27436

27437

[Bligh]

Thanks Jim.
I now know that I can live with a mix of the two scales without too much mental conflict.:wink:
Rob.

[Capn Duff]

Hmm seems strange dont it, same ship, two different scales and yet look same size.
I must admit once
I got the Spanish ships out of the box they all looked like 74's at first glance, hope
I dont make the same mistake during a game

[Naharaht]

I went to my local games shop yesterday to see what the situation was regarding the new ships. The owner told me that he was unwilling to order expansions 'on spec' when he could not obtain any Starter Sets. However, he was perfectly willing to order some to fulfil a definite order from me.

The lesson; Ares must keep a supply of Starter Sets available for shops to stock to sell to new players.

[TWR]

Starter sets have long vanished from our shores. Unfortunately, I have never seen any Wave 2 models locally either.

[Bligh]

Quite right Dave.
If starter sets are unavailable, no new hands will buy the other ships produced, and despite the hard core collectors it will be a dying game as far as Ares is concerned, no matter how many ships we buy for conversions, wrecks etc.
rob.

[Hjl]

I wonder why they bother releasing a third wave when they sontvkeep the starter set available. It seems illogical.

[Nightmoss]

Quite right Dave.
If starter sets are unavailable, no new hands will buy the other ships produced, and despite the hard core collectors it will be a dying game as far as Ares is concerned, no matter how many ships we buy for conversions, wrecks etc.
rob.

This is all too depressingly true. Perhaps I'll go ask why there are no starters available on BoardGame Geek?

[David Manley]

Same issue as "Wings"; Ares need to work out how to make starter sets permanently available else both series will be perpetually on the rocks.

Still no answer to the SA=9 question....

[Nightmoss]

Andrea recently won Board Game Geek's Designer of the Month award for December 2016. He linked this award thread off the SoG forums and has encouraged all to come and ask questions. While primarily busy with Wings questions there are some Sails of Glory folks active too. Big news is the Battle of Britain set and a Campaign Set of Rules for WWI.

It's where I just posted a question on the Sails Starter Set and also a question on the Fleet Rules. For good measure I also asked if there was any possibility of releasing an entire campaign rule set for the Napoleonic Wars.

Thread is here is anyone is interested.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1690594/bgg-wargame-designer-month-andrea-angiolino

[Bligh]

Here is the text of what Andrea said on the Geek. Thanks to Jim for flagging it up.




For Sails of Glory (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/109291/sails-glory), while a third series of ship is hitting the shelves, we are working on the fourth one and polishing a set of cards with skills for captains and crews, together with several cards featuring the most famed captains of the Napoleonic era. Other things are on the workbench but it is a bit too early to speak about them. All I can say is that with my co-designer Andrea Mainini (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamedesigner/4389/andrea-mainini) we are devoting our attention to other periods of the Age of Sails too.


Rob.

[TexaS]

I like that about the decks! And I hope that series four will be more like one and two. There are some annoying little things with the third series.

[Nightmoss]

Here is the text of what Andrea said on the Geek. Thanks to Jim for flagging it up.




For Sails of Glory (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/109291/sails-glory), while a third series of ship is hitting the shelves, we are working on the fourth one and polishing a set of cards with skills for captains and crews, together with several cards featuring the most famed captains of the Napoleonic era. Other things are on the workbench but it is a bit too early to speak about them. All I can say is that with my co-designer Andrea Mainini (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamedesigner/4389/andrea-mainini) we are devoting our attention to other periods of the Age of Sails too.


Rob.

I figured someone would catch that. Did you also see his answer in reply to one of our members specifically mentioning brigs and sloops?


Hello ChuckSherrange!

Yes, planes took most of the focus here, up to now.

ChuckSherrange wrote:
I would love for Brigs to get added in, as I spent many summers on the Niagara in Erie Pa. Also would fight lovely with the sloops.


Thanks a lot for all your kind words. That's a scale that is difficult to mix with the 74 guns and the 100+ guns of the Napoleonic era. Some sloops are already here, anyway, as the Thorn and some Swan class ships.

Let's see what the future will bring. In other eras, we could better focus on smaller ships for sure.

One has to wonder what other 'eras' they might be looking at?

[Comte de Brueys]

Good news for Sails of Glory and WoG. :salute:


... and a Campaign Set of Rules for WWI.

[Bligh]

Certainly shows that they are not unimpressed by the sales of current stocks.
We must try to emphasize the need for continuation of the Starter Packs,however, so as to continue to draw in new blood.
Rob.

[Bligh]

I figured someone would catch that. Did you also see his answer in reply to one of our members specifically mentioning brigs and sloops?


No Jim.
I missed that.
I will go and have another look.
Rob.

[twsl]

First let me apologize for a bit of a rant.....

From my point of view here in Australia, you would have to be pretty dedicated to wanting to get into either Wings or Sails of Glory.
I can't see any product in any local bricks and Mortar stores except one (down to 4 wave 1 ships) and I think its the owner selling his personal unopened collection from when it first came out.

Online the stores that did have it listed now have blank pages on their websites or have removed the headings completely.

The starter set I ordered this week, although a .com.au address is actually coming from New Zealand and if their stock on hand was correct - they had 2.
This leaves separate ships having to be ordered from the US and basically give up buying 2 ships which is what the freight cost to get your order here, never mind any fluctuation of the $.

Most of the stores sell X-Wing because I guess it's Star Wars and everyone knows it. Some people don't even play the game and just collect the tiny space ships.
With Ares there is no chance of impulse buying because it looks cool and interesting. Most wouldn't even know it existed.

I picked up my first starter set second hand when the gaming club I belonged to in the 80's had one for sale at their annual open day in November last year
and now have about as many ships as I have in my old Hallmark fleets.
I can't even remember the first brand of Napoleonic ships I had before them. That just made me realize I have been sailing for around 30 years off and on.

Personally from a what age of sails next, I don't see a great deal of difference except in models when you are dealing with wind and sea unless you have motors as well
and I may be wrong but I don't think the interest in any other period would be as great as Napoleonic or whether they are talking about oars and sails as in ancient galleys etc.
Unless they are planning on cashing in on the Pirates of the Caribbean or the tv show Black Sails but I just don't see any longevity there either.
But that may stem from me being isolated down here.

I hope the 80 gunners are coming in the next wave and I'd still be up for the fleet rules if they eventuate.

[TexaS]

The forth wave is known. It's the Tonnant, Spanish 34 gun frigate, British 64 and a Merchant/Indiaman/Bonhomme Richard.

We don't know if they will make masts looking wrong and sails billowing the wrong way and slide from the scale as the third wave

[Nightmoss]

Andrea did answer my questions although I don't think he understands that 'available' doesn't equate to 'readily and affordably available' in all markets. The frustration that Alan and others face in acquiring any SoG product, let alone the starter set, is daunting and certainly doesn't promote the game gaining popularity or longevity.

Here's Andrea's answer:


Hello and thanks!

The reprint of Sails' starter set has been made in the near past. The game is liasted as available:

http://www.aresgames.eu/upcoming-products

Up to local distributors to get it as soon as possible... In any case, it is an item that will be reprinted each time it sells out. No plans to replace it with other starting sets, nor to discontinue it.

We are testing some kind of campaign, but it is quite early to speak about it. Nor I have a date for fleet rules. In any case we had historical scenarios with up to 71 ships (the maximum) and unhistorical ones with up to 79, using the actual rules:

The largest Sails of Glory game ever

https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/177576/largest-sails-glory-game-ever

[Bligh]

Two significant things emerge from Andrea's remarks to me Jim.
One is that he needs to see how long the time gap is from selling out in mainstream areas until a reprint ordered when that happens actually hits the shelves which is usually a year. Long enough to lose about eighty punters, based upon the people who visit our shows and go away disappointed during that time. That is only for the U.K. mind you.
Second. It is fine to say 71 ships can be sailed with the current rules set. However, not many of us can get 71 people together for a game, and whilst it is possible for each participant to run say four ships at once it slows the game down too much. Also for 70 ships you would still need 18 players, and how often do we get that many at a show to do the Nile or Trafalgar?
I am not getting at Andrea in any way, because without his efforts,and genius we would have no game at all, but when you are at the sharp end at shows where Ares have not got a stand dispensing the goodies to all and sundry, you have to be an apologist for all these matters. The lack of stockists, the difficulty of obtaining the Starter sets and rules, few spares available, slow delivery of new ships, and no campaign rules, to name but the main bones of contention.
Because we all love the game we carry on playing and demonstrating to the public, but at times it does seem to be a bit of a fruitless exercise. For all the extra expense incurred in petrol, accommodation, and in the trouble we take to go to shows, I sometimes feel that it would just be easier to crack open a few bottles and invite some friends round to stay for a weekends gaming.
Rob.

[Hjl]

Very good point, I for one would love a way to manage a fleet without having to resort to basic rules or taking six hours

[TWR]

It could be argued that not all new players want to buy a full starter set. Perhaps a cut down version will be produced as was done with Wings of Gory? In the meantime it is really good, in my view, that some new models are available.

[John Paul]

As to "other periods", let us not forget the Anglo - Dutch Wars!! Battles with hundreds of large Ships-of-the-Line, the Golden Age of Piracy, the four main antagonists: Britain, Dutch, French, & Spanish! As Captain Blood said, " . . . and straight we sail for it!" Aye, those were the days to be a sailor!! :shootleft::shootright::cannon::drinks::hatsoff::Arrrr:

[Naharaht]

Could a new player get by by downloading the rulebook from the Ares website and buying an Additional Counter set and a set of Ship Mats? However, I know that the accessory packs are just as rare as Starter Sets.

[Bligh]

It is feasible to do it that way Dave.
There are still quite a few pockets of accessory packs about.
The ones that seem to have gone almost entirely are the coastline and bun battery ones.
Mats are getting scarce too but there are alternative mats on here, plus if you can borrow one it is easy to photocopy them.
Rob.

[Hjl]

I'm not sure you can do without the starter set, it has the wind marker, chits, measuring sticks. Can you buy them separately?

[David Manley]

It is fine to say 71 ships can be sailed with the current rules set. ....

To be honest most of these "record games" appear to be more akin to 30+ fairly individual games that just happen to be running on a very wide single table. I woudl imagine that if you were putting on a serious reconstruction of a battle with this number of ships or more you'd have a far more "interesting" time of it

[David Manley]

As to "other periods", let us not forget the Anglo - Dutch Wars!! Battles with hundreds of large Ships-of-the-Line, the Golden Age of Piracy, the four main antagonists: Britain, Dutch, French, & Spanish! As Captain Blood said, " . . . and straight we sail for it!" Aye, those were the days to be a sailor!! :shootleft::shootright::cannon::drinks::hatsoff::Arrrr:

Nice idea, but I wonder whether there is sufficient general interest (and awareness) to make this a viable commercial proposition. I'm not sure but I think that galley warfare n the Med in the 16th century would be a far easier sell to the general wargaming population, plus a far easier period in which to develop and produce a range of generic galley types that would serve as ships from a number of nations and city states, plus a decent number of specifics. I ca also see the period being far more amenable to a simpler set of rules more akin to WGF (and hence increasing the fun and accessibility aspects for new and unfamiliar players) - plus it is one of the most colourful periods of naval warfare.

But on a more serious note I'd prefer (and I think expect) Ares to sort out the issues regarding regular availability of starter sets both for Sails and for Wings before embarking on another period where, after an initial rush of interest the range ends up in the same doldrums as we see with their established lines.

[David Manley]

Very good point, I for one would love a way to manage a fleet without having to resort to basic rules or taking six hours

a fleet action set of rules needs to come at the problem from a completely different perspective. The players will be assuming the roles of admirals and commodores rather than ships captains, so the game system needs to deal with all the sorts of decisions that ships captains are making rather than burdening the players with it. Admirals shold lay out their strategy, command aims and issue orders to their subordinates, with the system dealing with how they discharge those orders. In terms of sailing mechanics, combat and repair it necessarily must be a far simpler system.

[Hjl]

a fleet action set of rules needs to come at the problem from a completely different perspective. The players will be assuming the roles of admirals and commodores rather than ships captains, so the game system needs to deal with all the sorts of decisions that ships captains are making rather than burdening the players with it. Admirals shold lay out their strategy, command aims and issue orders to their subordinates, with the system dealing with how they discharge those orders. In terms of sailing mechanics, combat and repair it necessarily must be a far simpler system.

That would be brilliant! Imagine issues G orders to captains and then using dice or chits to determine how they are followed. Make it an in depth table top strategy game rather than a captaincy simulator.

I think you hit the nail right on the head, I think these rules do an excellent job of simulating a captain in charge of his ship, but fall short when controlling more than a couple of ships. I find any thing more than 3 v 3 to be a burocratic nightmare. Especially as I'm almost always playing solo games and so basically trying to manage six ships.

How do other people manage in big games? Use the intermediate or basic rule set?

[Nightmoss]

To be honest most of these "record games" appear to be more akin to 30+ fairly individual games that just happen to be running on a very wide single table. I woudl imagine that if you were putting on a serious reconstruction of a battle with this number of ships or more you'd have a far more "interesting" time of it

Absolutely correct. I participated in both of the Ares Record Breaking games at Gen Con and they were free for all's with no coordination or planning per nationality. Walram (David) is the only person I know of who's done the big battles in a coordinated and historical manner.

[Bligh]

I use the advanced rules but cherry pick, Very seldom have wind strength changes for instance, and use the simple set of ship mats you can see in my AAR's. Just fill them in with a white board marker and return all chits to the bag each move. All ships form line of battle and do not sail as individuals until necessity forces them to do so. ie enemy ship getting in the way.
In this manner I have managed to sail six a side, but would rather not go any higher in numbers.
However, when playing a friend, the inevitable banter makes it much harder to keep an eye on what is happening and exactly where you are.
I think that with practice and developing an order for carrying out each action you can get better at managing larger numbers of ships, but as I said six a side is about my personal limit. You also need to concentrate a lot more if the British are using Carronades.
Rob.

[Nightmoss]

a fleet action set of rules needs to come at the problem from a completely different perspective. The players will be assuming the roles of admirals and commodores rather than ships captains, so the game system needs to deal with all the sorts of decisions that ships captains are making rather than burdening the players with it. Admirals shold lay out their strategy, command aims and issue orders to their subordinates, with the system dealing with how they discharge those orders. In terms of sailing mechanics, combat and repair it necessarily must be a far simpler system.

So, why isn't Ares having you do this Dave? I have no doubt you'd come up with something that would excellently fit the bill and probably be a heck of a lot of fun to boot!

[TexaS]

a fleet action set of rules needs to come at the problem from a completely different perspective. The players will be assuming the roles of admirals and commodores rather than ships captains, so the game system needs to deal with all the sorts of decisions that ships captains are making rather than burdening the players with it. Admirals shold lay out their strategy, command aims and issue orders to their subordinates, with the system dealing with how they discharge those orders. In terms of sailing mechanics, combat and repair it necessarily must be a far simpler system.
Have you seen Gå På?
It's a rules set for War of Spanish succession and Great Northern War. It's for land battles at about 1700-1720. The thing is that you set up your army and command it at the beginning. Then units start firing and visibility drops. You loose control of the army more and more. In the end everything turns into chaos and you as the general can only choose the most important spot and hope for the best with the rest.

As an admiral you can make signals widely seen leading up to the actual battle, but then theres smoke everywhere, even making ships mistake friend for foe. Then the admiral can only control the closest ships and hope that every man will do his duty.

[Bligh]

Very true Jonas.
Even the repeater Frigates placed up wind to avoid the fog of war could only see the Flagships signals as long as he did not cut the enemy line. Then there was a wall of smoke between him and his Frigates. The same went for any of his ships which got even slightly downwind of the enemy.
Nelson knowing this would happen as soon as his ships cut the Line at Trafalgar, kept things simple when he told his Captains that they would do no wrong if they placed themselves alongside an enemy. Then left it to their discretion. KISS in action?

Rob.

[Union Jack]

One of the best systems I've played under was the Langton rules with large ship actions (10+ ships/side). One chart, one dice roll and with the different classes of ships different possibilities of what each ship could or couldn't do. I've seen most of my ships carry on in formation with the poorer ships in quality just blithley sailing on as turning to fast wold have dismasted them or their crew quality so poor that they could not fire.

This is handled a different way with the SPI game frigate. A random number being taken and any ship in a hex ending with that number and some unfortunate action accured.

Like David for me it needs to be simple, effective but retaining the fun aspect.

[Naharaht]

I collected my new ships from my local games shop on Saturday morning. They look good.

[Naharaht]

I did not notice at first but my model of SGN109B Protee 1772/ Eveille 1772 has its flag missing. It had been broken off. I searched the box carefully but it was not loose inside. Has anyone else had this problem? Are Ares still replacing damaged models?

[TexaS]

My first HMS Victory had the flag broken off and it wasn't present in the box.

I asked them for a replacement and got it. It's the only replacement I've ever asked for from Ares, even though I've had several broken foremasts so I don't feel bad about it even though I cut off the flag of the replacement too...

[Bligh]

You should be able to get it replaced if you get in touch with them Dave.
Rob.

[Naharaht]

I contacted Ares and they have very kindly sent me another model of SGN109B Protee 1772/ Eveille 1772. However, it was the ship model only without the cards. Still it was very good of them.

[Capn Duff]

At least you will have an undamaged ship, nice one David

[Bligh]

Glad to hear you had a good outcome.
It proves that they are still doing the right thing re after sails in that respect at least Dave.
Rob.

[Corsair]

I had been thinking about adding some ships to my modest fleet of eight, saw that the new wave was out, and added eight more ships, including a first rate for each side, a forty gun frigate for each side (intended as flagships for SotL and frigate action respectively), a couple of Spanish ships just because, and a couple of 4th rates.

Now, I figured that the 4th rates would probably lump in better with frigates, and supersede the 40 gun frigates as the flagship, which makes sense historically. Looking at the ship mats, though, and the 50 gun ships looks like a nice ship to give to a beginner to square off against a 40 gunner. They don't seem that far off. Looking up the conflict between the Sybille and HMS Romney, that seems a fair enough appraisal.

[Hjl]

The 4th will have an advantage over even the heavy frigates because of its extra boxes on its ship log. How ever if this is in the hands of the beginner against a more seasoned player in the heavy frigate then it could well be a close game.

In my experience the 4th rate ships do exactly what you would expect. They aren't nearly as powerful as the 74 gun ships but stand above the frigates.

Perhaps a Constitution vs HMS Leopard action is in order!

[TexaS]

I have compared Constitution vs a burden 4 with one more box in just taking damage, applying two sets of identical B chits randomly drawn damage to both and the burden 5 always came out on top. Higher burden is a distinct advantage that would have to be countered with at least two more boxes to make up for it.

[Bligh]

I agree Jonas.
Burden is a somewhat unseen balance of power changer at least two boxes worth of damage if not three when the chits fall badly and one box absorbs two large numbers.
Rob.

[Bligh]

Firstly I should have welcomed you officially to the Anchorage Bruce.

I had a look for this book, and the best I could do on Amazon was......

Used, very good condition £39.25.

Rob.

[Corsair]

The 4th will have an advantage over even the heavy frigates because of its extra boxes on its ship log. How ever if this is in the hands of the beginner against a more seasoned player in the heavy frigate then it could well be a close game.

In my experience the 4th rate ships do exactly what you would expect. They aren't nearly as powerful as the 74 gun ships but stand above the frigates.

Perhaps a Constitution vs HMS Leopard action is in order!

Just looking at the mats and stats without actually playing them, the difference is small. Looking at the Ares points values, 96/99 for the Leopard/Isis and 85/88 for Sybille/Amelia. Smaller difference between those two ships and the Constitution (116 in the early version, a whopping 133 in the 1812 version). The Leopard has an extra box of damage, but with the same burden as the Sybille, it really is going to come down to which ship gets off the first telling broadside. I'm not sure that it is quite as close as the game has it modeled, but the 4th rate works out much closer to the larger frigates (excluding the US super-frigates) than it does to a 3rd rate. Visually, looking at the models themselves, it looks a closer match to the large frigates. The 3rd rates are an order larger than the fifty gun ships. Which is nice - the fifty gun ships were removed from the line, and tended to play with the frigates in reality. I'll probably add a 64 gun ship in a future order - they seem a bit more in the no man's land between being too much for a frigate, but not quite equal to being in the line anymore beyond necessity, so the fifty seems to have more of a definitive role to me within the game, while the 64 needs more of a middle ground built for it.

[Diamondback]

Historically, after the ends of their days as viable participants in the battle line, the two-decker "cruisers" of 40-60 guns were found to be just right for convoy escort: enough punch to threaten raiders, not enough speed or maneuverability for captains to abandon their charges and go chase prize-money as they'd be tempted to with frigates. The 64's found second lives on blockade duty and as frigate-squadron flagships, the latter a role the smaller two-deckers also filled occasionally IIRC.

Comparing a two-decker cruiser to a spar-decker frigate of similar rating depends on bores. Say a Roebuck 44 vs a Pallas 44--the Pallas's battery is 18# UD, 9# QD/FC, while Roebuck carries 24's and 12's on two full decks plus 6's upstairs. Maneuverability and speed advantage to Pallas, damage-resistance both hull and crew to Roebuck. Portland vs a superfrigate on the other hand... against Constitution Portland loses all-around: speed, maneuverability, firepower, hull, though by a hair in a few of those categories. Call it "slight handicap."
*Frigate LD's have no ports, they're the cargo/supply deck--the lowest continuous unbroken deck from stem to stern, as opposed to the orlop with its string of different-height platforms.

[stuh42asl]

So has everyone finally received the Spanish Ships, and put them to sea yet ??

[stuh42asl]

Mine are still sittin in drydock while the Trinidad needs a paint job.........................the Dons are out chasing women again :)

[Hjl]

Take a look in the 2017 campaign section. There are loads of pictures of them in action in the January reports :D

[Bligh]

Three of my new Spaniards were in action in that January scrap.
I will publish pictures of the whole Fleet at sea in the next few days.
Rob.

[Capn Duff]

I have put my Spaniards in Haitus for the moment.
I have rigged one , ahem , 3 decker and trying to repair a broken 74, rest are lounging while I sulk over the possible/probable scale issue.
One good thing is the 64's for the French dont look too much out, still checking the lengths for this but side by side with a 74 looking passable. Just the rest of the wave possibly dodgey

[Bligh]

I have put my Spaniards in Haitus for the moment.


That somewhere on the Spanish Main then Chris?

Rob.:wink:

[Capn Duff]

That somewhere on the Spanish Main then Chris?

Rob.:wink:

Must be as the crews are all running around wearing grass hats and other aparel drinking this new white version of rum, bac r di or some such, giving the RN time to look over the competition

[David Manley]

I have put my Spaniards in Haitus for the moment.

One of the more obscure ports in the Caribbean?

[Nightmoss]

I have put my Spaniards in Haitus for the moment.
I have rigged one , ahem , 3 decker and trying to repair a broken 74, rest are lounging while I sulk over the possible/probable scale issue.
One good thing is the 64's for the French dont look too much out, still checking the lengths for this but side by side with a 74 looking passable. Just the rest of the wave possibly dodgey

Same with me I'm afraid. I just can't get enthused about putting them on the table.

With everything that's coming up in the next few months I'm not even going to use them for the solo campaign.

[Diamondback]

Haven't even got Wave 3 ordered yet. May downsize to only one set for Collection Completeness.

I came into Ares's fold because of WGF, and that's where my priority of spending is going at this point.

[Hjl]

Well that certainly makes depressing reading. Let's hope they can fix things fir the next wave.

[Bligh]

That is only the fourth wave Hugh.
Only every seventh wave is bigger so they say.:wink:
Rob.