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Comte de Brueys
10-09-2016, 13:49
First to second August 1798, the Battle of Abukir or Battle of the Nile took place near Alexandria/Egypt.

For Prague Summer Con 2017 (21.-23.04.17) I'm working on a scenario for max. 8 players + host.

Comte de Brueys
10-09-2016, 14:09
Possible winning conditions:

The Royal Navy under Nelson's command win the game if:

a) More French ships are destroyed or forced to surrender then British ships
and
b) The Orient is destroyed
and
c) three to four ships of the Royal Navy have sailed between the coast/shoals and the French line

Rules in play:

Standard rules with collission
Sail setting for the RN
Let the men drink for the RN


Special rules:

The Orient: No special damages except for the Orient. The moment she receives a fire damage, she gets one fire damage marker at the start of every round. The moment the Orient is destroyed and on fire, she explodes. As a result of the explosion, each French ship gets two crew damages and no ship (French & British) is allowed to fire for the following round.

French ships: A lot of sailors were not on board of the French ships when the RN arrived at Abukir. Each French ship has one crew damage token at the start of the battle to represent this.

Sunset: The last 30 minutes before the scenario ends (2 hours) - each ship can only fire at half range for the rest of the game

British captains: Are free to discuss the order of their ships, targets to destroy, movements and positions they want to sail to. It's allowed to show and plan open the sail setting tokens and the let the men drink token, but it's not allowed to show the planned movement cards to each other.

Ranking order in the RN: There will be two RN commanders - Nelson on the HMS Vanguard - in command of the ships that will attack from the seaside
and
the Captain of the HMS Goliath (Thomas Foley) - in command of the 3 - 4 ships that will sail between the coast/shoals and the French line.

Admiral Horatio Nelson & HMS Vanguard: Will get some Captain & crew abilities

Hidden special rule: Will be announced during play as a surprise.


...


My goal is to display the battle in a smaller scale with less ships on two gaming mats.

One side is blocked with terrain tiles to represent coast and shoals.

The French fleet will be anchoring in the bay in a line with their flagship Orient in the middle.

I'm thinking about 8 ships of the line (7x 3rd rates & 1x 1st rate) with one frigate or sloop near the coast.


The RN will get two divisions with 8 ships of the line (8x 3rd rates or maybe 7x 3rd rates and the 4th rate Leander :wink:).

Comte de Brueys
10-09-2016, 14:38
Some aspects I have to work on:


Setup:

Setup of the terrain tiles. (add some shoals?)
Position of the ships.
Distances between the ships.
Wind direction.
How to equip the used ships with historical names?


Ships:

What ships to use?
Maybe a 4th rate for the head of the French line to represent the old Guerrier & Conquerant?
French Temeraire class ships for the strong 80 gun ships Franklin & Tonnant.
2x Temeraire class for the RN to give them two strong division heads. (Vanguard and... maybe Zealous?)


Rules & historical aspects:

Abilities for Nelsons' ship & Crew.
Block one crew section of every French ship in the setup to represent the lack of Crews?
Reduce the left broadside power of every French ship towards the coast by one? (gunports that are blocked with stuff)
Special rules for the Orient (once the ship catches fire it burns every turn until it explodes - dealing out 2x crew hits to every French ship then)
Winning conditions for The RN (destroy the Orient and cause more losses to the French)
Maybe a bonus for entering the space between the French line and the coast?
Standart movement with setting sails - no special damages except for the Orient


Challenge of the sceanrio:

Should be a cooperative sceanrio - gamers vs. a host controlled Frech battle line
Historical aspects: One RN Division (min. of 2 - 3 ships) has to sail between the coast and the French line
Player can choose their ships, their position in the RN divisions and talk about their battle plan.


I'm ready for some tips, ideas or comments. :wink:

Bligh
10-09-2016, 16:27
Just seen this Sven. It looks really good. I will give it some consideration and then get back to you on it.
Rob.

Union Jack
10-09-2016, 17:17
Sven what of the possibility of a small gun battery on the headland? (ie Entry point end of the RN).

Comte de Brueys
10-09-2016, 17:39
You can read my mind, Neil.

In fact I need the small battery tile, that one with the weakest costal battery to complete the bay at the northern edge.

See the picture.

...smartphone didn't upload it correct. :question:

Bligh
10-10-2016, 03:29
I have a set of shoals and that battery if you need them Sven.
The battery question also answers one of my questions about the British Fleet being too strong, but I guess trialing the game will show up any anomalies in that respect.
Rob.

Comte de Brueys
10-10-2016, 10:24
Made a first test setup for the scenario.

One picture with and one without the RN and the wind direction.

One challenging element for the RN will be to get the second division (Foley/Goliath) between the French line and the coast. So there is a navigation element in this scenario. Just sail down the French fleet would be too easy.

Another factor is, not to underrate the fire from the French line with the movement of the first divison (Nelson/Vanguard) down the French line.

Comte de Brueys
10-10-2016, 10:30
I have a set of shoals and that battery if you need them Sven.
The battery question also answers one of my questions about the British Fleet being too strong, but I guess trialing the game will show up any anomalies in that respect.
Rob.


Thanks, Rob, I think my terrain tiles will cover the setup requirements. :salute:

I don't know if the battery has an balancing effect, may a little disturbing one for the second division, but the Goliath and the following ships willhave a spare right broadside for this battery. :wink:



Beside this I think the French line is bent too much on the picture.

Too leave enough space between the French ships for a British breakthrough, is difficult on only two gaming mats. :question:

Bligh
10-10-2016, 10:43
Looks good to me Sven. With slightly less kink in the line should work well.
Without shooting off to get my Maritime Atlas, is the range stick indicating the wind direction?
Rob.

TexaS
10-10-2016, 12:45
At least two British ships anchored between french ships raking them. Hard to do in that set up.

I'd use SGN 104 for the British (Leander when it becomes available) and SGN 102 for the French, except for Orient.

You could use the stats I use for the Tonnant-class. It's basically the best stats you can find for a Téméraire. There's a very tight span for the stats between the Téméraires and the British first rates where both Tonnants and second rates should be.

Comte de Brueys
10-10-2016, 14:50
...
Without shooting off to get my Maritime Atlas, is the range stick indicating the wind direction?
Rob.

Yes, but I'm not 100% shure about that.

Comte de Brueys
10-10-2016, 14:58
At least two British ships anchored between french ships raking them. Hard to do in that set up.

I'd use SGN 104 for the British (Leander when it becomes available) and SGN 102 for the French, except for Orient.

I Need to improve here a Little Bit, but it should work without Breaking The line.

HMS Leander made it between two French SOLs, but if I make bigger distances between the ships, two mats are not enough.

TexaS
10-10-2016, 16:01
Well... You have the space you have and have to make it work. Sacrifices will have to be made. The French meant to make the gaps too small for the British to get in there so perhaps you could leave just one gap wide enough?

I will follow your project closely. I've been working on it myself, but with all the ships.

Bligh
10-10-2016, 16:45
I just checked both my books with charts of the battle Sven, and neither show the wind direction.
Rob.

Comte de Brueys
10-10-2016, 17:41
Jonas - Thx for Support

Rob - I only know at the moment, that Wind conditions we're in favour for the RN. I'll have a Look tomorrow in my Books.

(It's cool that we have Goliath & Vanguard as SoG Minis:happy:)

TexaS
10-11-2016, 00:45
The wind was from the north and slightly from the east.

Comte de Brueys
10-11-2016, 01:11
I read today, that the the wind was blowing constantly from (North-)North-West. :question:

TexaS
10-11-2016, 01:16
Yes, sorry. I meant constantly from the north and slightly from the land, which is west.

Bellerophon drifted pretty much just downwind.

Bligh
10-11-2016, 01:49
Certainly ideal to circumnavigate the French van then, and for cutting the line.
Rob.

Comte de Brueys
10-13-2016, 00:26
Bought another Le Berwick (Elizabeth class) and HMS Spartiate (Temeraire class) yesterday in a flagshipstore in Nürnberg. :moneygone:

Spotted a single Commerce de Bordeaux (Temeraire class), too...

Bligh
10-13-2016, 03:49
Good going Sven.
Some of the ships are starting to become difficult to get now.
Rob.

Comte de Brueys
10-24-2016, 05:04
Ok so I had my first thoughts on the scenario goals:

Winning conditions:

The Royal Navy under Nelson's command win the game if:

a) More French ships are destroyed or forced to surrender then British ships
and
b) The Orient is destroyed
and
c) three to four ships of the Royal Navy have sailed between the coast/shoals and the French line

Rules in play:

Standard rules with collission
Sail setting for the RN
Let the men drink for the RN


Special rules:

The Orient: No special damages except for the Orient. The moment she receives a fire damage, she gets one fire damage marker at the start of every round. The moment the Orient is destroyed and on fire, she explodes. As a result of the explosion, each French ship gets two crew damages and no ship (French & British) is allowed to fire for the following round.

French ships: A lot of sailors were not on board of the French ships when the RN arrived at Abukir. Each French ship has one crew damage token at the start of the battle to represent this.

Sunset: The last 30 minutes before the scenario ends (2 hours) - each ship can only fire at half range for the rest of the game

British captains: Are free to discuss the order of their ships, targets to destroy, movements and positions they want to sail to. It's allowed to show and plan open the sail setting tokens and the let the men drink token, but it's not allowed to show the planned movement cards to each other.

Ranking order in the RN: There will be two RN commanders - Nelson on the HMS Vanguard - in command of the ships that will attack from the seaside
and
the Captain of the HMS Goliath (Thomas Foley) - in command of the 3 - 4 ships that will sail between the coast/shoals and the French line.

Admiral Horatio Nelson & HMS Vanguard: Will get some Captain & crew abilities

Hidden special rule: Will be announced during play as a surprise.



These are my first thoughts and I'll put them in the second post of this thread for a better visibility.

More ideas?

Bligh
10-24-2016, 05:53
Like the ideas Sven.
Have you thought about the French guns facing the shore which apparently could not fire because of stores being stacked up on that side of the ships? I suggest a time delay in them being able to fire and no first salvo bonus.
Rob.

Comte de Brueys
10-24-2016, 08:39
No comment. :wink:

...but as far as I know had the First two French ships less firepower in General and not all French ships had Blocked gunports toward the landside.

Need to study this Detail.


I have to think about this First Salve Bonus. This is something from the Advanced rules, Means: Not allowed!:shock:

Comte de Brueys
10-24-2016, 09:07
Checked this in my Literature: Guerrier and Conquerant (First 2 ships) had blocked gunports.

Bligh
10-24-2016, 13:43
Sorry about the false trail Sven.
The book I read must be in error.
As far as first salvo goes, I missed your reference to standard rules.
With Let the men drink, and Sail setting I had taken it to mean we were playing the Advanced rules and Optional rules.
My mistake sorry.
Rob.

Union Jack
10-24-2016, 14:46
Sven you could add an additional 2 ships to both groups. You have more than enough room. Also the RN victory condition of sailing 4 ships between French ships and the land, I would remove this otherwise it is too easy for the RN to win, or if you do keep it in have a condition that for every ship sailing round the French first ship there is a chance that they will run aground.

Comte de Brueys
10-24-2016, 16:20
Hey Rob - no reason for a sorry. :shock: I know you're a fan of this first salvo.

For historical accuracy - does anyone has informations that all French ships had blocked gunports? :question: Maybe my book isn't that precise...


Neil - Yes it's true that there can be more ships on the gaming area. I Limited it to 8 Players and a Host because of the place on and around the table.

The RN needs to fullfill all objectives a + b + c. That' Not so easy, because they Need good Navigation, Sailing and timing. Remember: Collisions and hidden movements with one maneuver planed ahead.

Veteran Captains would solve this with ease, but what about The other players?

Comte de Brueys
10-24-2016, 16:25
Another Point is The French line - all they have to do is continuous Fire. ...and those Temeraires around The Orient are nasty. :takecover:

If Nelson Sails down The line too fast, he will be destroyed when reaching The Orient.

The RN needs a good teamwork.

Comte de Brueys
10-24-2016, 16:29
I Need a new Setup picture with 8 French ships. Sorry for Posting The first Setup with only 6 ships. :surrender:

...and I think The French line Need some correction.

The Wind direction should be ok ( displayed) by The ruler.

Diamondback
10-24-2016, 16:44
Sven, I'll get back to you with ratings, but in the interests of simplicity I might suggest you make firing Center Broadside Only.

Bligh
10-24-2016, 16:48
I'm still sorry Sven.
You were asking for advice, and my answer mucked you about.
I will be only too glad to get into your game no matter first shot or not is allowed.
Rob.

Diamondback
10-24-2016, 17:05
Here's what I have from Walram's scenario research...

French Fleet
Orient: Obviously SGN106 Orient
Franklin, Tonnant, Guillaume Tell: Wave 4 Tonnant 80's--for now use SGN102 Temeraires and I'll get back to you with the Stat Committee proposed stats as an interim measure.
Spartiate, Aquilon, Genereux, Timoleon: SGN102 Temeraires
Guerrier, Conquerant, Peuple Souverain, Heureux, Mercure: I've been lobbying Ares for an "Old French 74" sculpt, but for now use more Temeraires.
Justice, Diane: Both up-gunned members of the Hebe family. Use SGN105, but slow down the damage track since these were 40's to 44's at various times. (True 44's, not the only-on-paper kind like Constitution.)
Serieuse, Artemise: Use SGN101 Concordes.
TOTAL: 1x SGN106, 12x SGN102, 2x SGN105, 2x SGN101

British Fleet
Goliath, Zealous, Audacious, Theseus, Vanguard, Defence, Bellerophon, Swiftsure: SGN104 Slade Common 74s.
Orion, Majestic: SGN104--at game scale, the Canada and Bellona draughts are so indistinguishable I have to check the filenames to keep them straight.
Minotaur: Ahh, here we have a problem. The Stats Committee is still debating whether the Courageux class is better served by using SGN102, SGN104 or a new sculpt, but if memory serves they were Middlings--so I would base their logs more on SGN102.
Alexander: Unsure what sculpt best fits the Royal Oak/Alfred classes, but definitely SGN104 stats.
Culloden: Ganges class--same situation as Alexander.
Leander: SGN110 Leander.
Mutine: Unsure about the French Belliqueuse class, but for now use any Swan except Thorn.
TOTAL: 10x SGN104, 1x SGN110, 1x SGN107, three unknowns.

Hope this helps.

Comte de Brueys
10-25-2016, 01:37
Thank you for the detailed work, DB. :salute:

I need to check, how to display this with my miniatures.

I have another information, that the Conquerant (2nd French SoL) was underarmed and outdated, too. Only equipped with 18 pounders. :question:


Sven, I'll get back to you with ratings, but in the interests of simplicity I might suggest you make firing Center Broadside Only.

I thought about this before and this might be an important point of balance if you look at the profile of the French line in the bay. The way the line is bent could be a big advantage for the RN if the French fire is limited to broadsides only.


I'm still sorry Sven.
You were asking for advice, and my answer mucked you about.
I will be only too glad to get into your game no matter first shot or not is allowed.
Rob.

Oh Rob...

:wink:

You really want me to order you to scrub the deck for this "first salvo thing"? :erk:

I'm really gratefuly for all the input.

Bligh
10-25-2016, 03:16
That is also certainly going to help us to provide the correct ships for Sven when we do the game at Doncaster 17.
Thanks DB.
Rob.

Comte de Brueys
10-25-2016, 07:49
I think the first test run will be with 6 ships each side.

I'm not shure about the position of the Orient at the moment, but with 8 vs. 8 she should be on position number 6 or 7.

Now she's on position 5.

http://sailsofglory.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=25995&d=1477399229

I'm not shure about the starting formation of the Royal Navy too, at the moment.

A double colum isn't that historical, but gives the players the chance to appear quick on the scene.

The ships have to start outside of the gaming area at the moment, but I can fix it with moving the bay tiles a little bit. What I definitely need are some fixpoints to determin the correct starting position of each ship (French & British).

http://sailsofglory.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=25996&d=1477399229

Admiral Nelson is in full favour of the wind. The RN get the NNW wind directly in the green zone (reaching).

http://sailsofglory.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=25994&d=1477399229

Comte de Brueys
10-25-2016, 08:19
I modified the bay to have a fixed starting positions for the British ships.

http://sailsofglory.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=25997&d=1477401077

This is how it could work.

The gap between the coast/shoal and the Guerrier is only half a ruler. If Captain Foley maneuver well, the mission can be a succesfull one. :wink:

Questions is how the other RN captains will perform. :steer:

The following RN ships will appear on the same position (Nelson's or Foley's).


http://sailsofglory.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=25998&d=1477401077

The small French fort.

I'm happy that my terrain and fortification set can display the bay that well. :clap:

http://sailsofglory.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=25999&d=1477401077

Comte de Brueys
10-25-2016, 08:25
What do you think about the double column?

Should the RN Start in "historical" order in one line (means player number 8 will start to maneuver in round 8, not in round number 4)? :question:

Bligh
10-25-2016, 08:47
How are you numbering your ships in the double line Sven?

If one line, where would each ship come in that line?

On the face of it, two lines would seem to get ships into action more speedily, and this could be an important factor in getting the game finished in the allocated time slot.
Rob.

Union Jack
10-25-2016, 11:31
On the face of it Abukir may need a little more wiggle room with time. Let me thnk on it, unless Sven is happy.

Diamondback
10-25-2016, 12:12
Technically, Conquerant was dismantled in the 1760s and reassembled using the old planks and the design of the then-new Citoyen class. I'll check Threedecks and also see if FWAS has anything later, but right now I'm on a bus. :(

Comte de Brueys
10-25-2016, 15:14
How are you numbering your ships in the double line Sven?

If one line, where would each ship come in that line?...

Historical, Foleys column will go first and the Nelson's column.

But then I'll put the HMS Leander at the last position.

Comte de Brueys
10-25-2016, 15:18
On the face of it Abukir may need a little more wiggle room with time. Let me thnk on it, unless Sven is happy.



..., and this could be an important factor in getting the game finished in the allocated time slot.
Rob.

Time is something I need to test, but the RN has perfect wind conditions and the host (me) will manage the French line with a chart.

I would not waste much time with the setup.

Positions of ships are fixed, I only need to assign the different commands.

Union Jack
10-25-2016, 16:07
It's looking good Sven. CAn't wait for your refight.

Diamondback
10-25-2016, 16:17
FWAS shows Conquerant rearmed in 1795 28x18#/30x12#/16x6#. Artesiens are 26x24#/28x12#/10x6#, so I'd go maybe halfway between an Artesien and a Temeraire, also -1 Burthen to represent her worn-out hull.

Bligh
10-25-2016, 16:39
Historical, Foleys column will go first and the Nelson's column.

But then I'll put the HMS Leander at the last position.

That fits with the way that I looked on your chart of the battle.
Leander did about the only thing it could do. Got in a position where it was shielded from the big guns of the French and chipped away.
Rob.

Union Jack
10-26-2016, 08:37
Will you also include a slightly bigger gap between 2 of the french ships to allow at least one of the British to sail between as did in the battle. (If I recall correctly). Not too big but say a base and a half width?

As to crews:

A more pressing problem for Brueys was a lack of food and water for the fleet: Bonaparte had unloaded almost all of the provisions carried aboard and no supplies were reaching the ships from the shore. To remedy this, Brueys sent foraging parties of 25 men from each ship along the coast to requisition food, dig wells, and collect water. Constant attacks by Bedouin partisans, however, required escorts of heavily armed guards for each party. Hence, up to a third of the fleet's sailors were away from their ships at any one time.

Brueys wrote a letter describing the situation to Minister of Marine Étienne Eustache Bruix, reporting that:

"Our crews are weak, both in number and quality. Our rigging, in general, out of repair, and I am sure it requires no little courage to undertake the management of a fleet furnished with such tools."

TexaS
10-26-2016, 09:09
Your north isn't where I'd put the north. That doesn't really matter but the wind is off by almost 90 degrees counter clockwise.
Look at which way Bellerophon drifted. It was almost completely downwind. The island with the little fort was almost to the north.

In all other things this looks great!

Comte de Brueys
10-26-2016, 13:38
Thank you Sir. :salute:

Please have a look for Abukir at Google maps and tell me again, that my North isn't the real North. :wink:

In my scenario the wind comes from North/West (not North-North/West like historical) for a more easy derterming the wind direction. (blue lines on the gaming mats.)

Beside this I don't want to place an extra battery on the norther edge of the land tongue.

Bligh
10-26-2016, 13:42
Jonas is there any chance of us cajoling you to come over and join us for the Doncaster Lend lease event.
I would love to meet you in person.
Rob.

Comte de Brueys
10-26-2016, 13:49
Will you also include a slightly bigger gap between 2 of the french ships to allow at least one of the British to sail between as did in the battle. (If I recall correctly). Not too big but say a base and a half width?

As to crews:

A more pressing problem for Brueys was a lack of food and water for the fleet: Bonaparte had unloaded almost all of the provisions carried aboard and no supplies were reaching the ships from the shore. To remedy this, Brueys sent foraging parties of 25 men from each ship along the coast to requisition food, dig wells, and collect water. Constant attacks by Bedouin partisans, however, required escorts of heavily armed guards for each party. Hence, up to a third of the fleet's sailors were away from their ships at any one time....

I could do that Neil, but what ship will enter the gap before the French line around is gunned down that far, that a RN ship can enter it without being racked from the bow one or two times? :question:




The lack of crews is a point...

The French SoL started the whole campaing with only 85 % of crews and the had some men on the shores.

So I reduced the crew and the first crew box is blocked.

Maybe the historical situation allows to block two boxes of each ship, or I raise the reload time for French ships. (fire / reload / reload instead of fire / reload)

Difficult. :help:

Comte de Brueys
10-26-2016, 13:50
Jonas is there any chance of us cajoling you to come over and join us for the Doncaster Lend lease event.
I would love to meet you in person.
Rob.

This would be really cool! :shock:

Bligh
10-26-2016, 14:07
Historically the ship that cuts the line is Leander, and I have a cunning plan for that move Mr B.

Baldrick.

TexaS
10-26-2016, 17:12
I made it a little too small, but the round thing above my right line is Nelson Island. It's the small island that had a fort between which and the French line HMS Goliath sailed. If you look at the orientation of the island and your battlemaps you will find that the Island have rotated 45 degrees on google earth. The French line was more or less North-West to South-East.

About me going to Doncaster, it would be fun, but I know nothing about when and where. With the new wave coming out I might not have the money for it.

TexaS
10-26-2016, 17:16
Very quick bad drawing of the orientation of the battle:

26047

Yellow is wind.
Red is British
Blue (if you can see it) is French.

TexaS
10-26-2016, 17:23
I think the French line should be tilted perhaps some degrees counter clockwise more than that quick drawing from memory, but you should be able to align it better to your maps you no doubt have.

Here you have a picture with north marked.
26046

It wasn't 90 degrees but perhaps 45...

TexaS
10-26-2016, 17:41
26048

From this picture and from written sources several British ships raked the French line. I can't remember which ones but some French ship changed angle to rake a British ship and was in turn raked by another. There were a lot of raking going on...

This picture also have the wind marked on the compass rose.

Bligh
10-27-2016, 02:00
About me going to Doncaster, it would be fun, but I know nothing about when and where. With the new wave coming out I might not have the money for it.

Dear Jonas Doncaster is not until next September.
You can get details here.

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?4268-Doncaster-2017

We are hosting the Lend Lease winner who will be a prominent member from the USA this time.

Rob.

Comte de Brueys
10-27-2016, 02:04
Of course I need to make concessions to the position and orientation of the French line. That's not fixed at the moment. A straight line can't be the solution.

For raking, I know that the HMS Leander make it in a perfect postion, because she used the darkness to sneak into the battle line and get in a formidable position. HMS Alexander was able to get behing the Orient.

Maybe there should be a gap like Neil wrote?

(Did any other RN ship break throug the French line? :question:)

I can imagine a bow raking of the Guerrier, too.

If you look a picture number 2, I think it's not possible to get a SoG ship with our rules in a position like the HMS Theseus.

But in general, the British ships try to anchor in a good shooting position to fight the first French SoLs together. This anchor maneuver was in some cases succesful and in some cases not.

This battle was decided by concentrated crossfire and the immobile French line. Only HMS Bellerophon payed the bill for getting early into crossfire of the Orient and I think the Franklin.


That's what I have...

Comte de Brueys
10-27-2016, 02:20
That's the difficulty to press this battle on two gaming mats, giving enough place for maneuvers, grant the players fun and solve the mission in 2 hours.

In my opinion the key element for a succesful and interesting mission is the "cooperation". And some questions the players have to care for regarding the mission goals:

Will the other Captains obey the orders from Nelson and Foley?
How do they navigate? - a single collision can be desastrous.
How many ships to send in between the coast and the French line? 3 or 4
How should be Nelsons approach? Slow or fats? Fighting the first French SoLs together with Foley or rush to the Orient , avoid fire from Conquerant, Aquilon, Franklin, Peuple Souverain... and try to fight the 1st rate down?
Is it possible to use historic elements and anchor beside the enemy and decimate him ship by ship?
Can be the reduced French crews the key to victory?


Many questions...

TexaS
10-27-2016, 02:37
Dear Jonas Doncaster is not until next September.
You can get details here.

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?4268-Doncaster-2017

We are hosting the Lend Lease winner who will be a prominent member from the USA this time.

Rob.
Then I may very well be able to make it. That would be great fun!

Comte de Brueys
10-27-2016, 02:40
Then I may very well be able to make it. That would be great fun!

Nice! :thumbsup:


I think the French line should be tilted perhaps some degrees counter clockwise more than that quick drawing from memory, but you should be able to align it better to your maps you no doubt have...

I'll consider this for the formation of the French line.

Thank you for your maps. :salute:

TexaS
10-27-2016, 02:57
Sven, I think you have it all well in hand, and looking at your second picture you have a good view of where north should be and where the wind was coming from.

The thing about raking is you should make some possibility for it but you can never fully recreate historical movements.

I've seen tries to make rules for spring anchors, maybe even here on the anchorage, but in your time frame you can't get bogged down with details for special rules that will take a lot of time to explain.

You should focus on a quick fun game and before my comments I think you were on the right way.

Comte de Brueys
10-27-2016, 03:34
It's important to exchange points of view and historical facts & aspects.

So every input is most welcome like Rob (blocked gunports), DB (which minatures), Neil (crews) you (terrain, wind and French line),...

Already fired the rep gun, but can't shoot at Neil & youi at the moment because I have to spread rep around first. :wink:


Not being a native speaker it's sometimes hard to express in the adequate way in a debate here. :surrender:

Bligh
10-27-2016, 05:12
That's the difficulty to press this battle on two gaming mats, giving enough place for maneuvers, grant the players fun and solve the mission in 2 hours.

In my opinion the key element for a succesful and interesting mission is the "cooperation". And some questions the players have to care for regarding the mission goals:

Will the other Captains obey the orders from Nelson and Foley?
How do they navigate? - a single collision can be desastrous.
How many ships to send in between the coast and the French line? 3 or 4
How should be Nelsons approach? Slow or fats? Fighting the first French SoLs together with Foley or rush to the Orient , avoid fire from Conquerant, Aquilon, Franklin, Peuple Souverain... and try to fight the 1st rate down?
Is it possible to use historic elements and anchor beside the enemy and decimate him ship by ship?
Can be the reduced French crews the key to victory?


Many questions...

You can be sure that we British Captains are already studying our charts, and discussing what to do dear Compte.

To that end I have found during my research this morning two things which may help or hinder your own research, and bring to light the truth about ships not obeying orders re the Culloden's grounding.
I quote here from a book containing the actual dispatches sent by Nelson. In it this statement is made.

"Foley, in the leading British ship, the Goliath, had a copy of Bellin's Petit Atlas Maritime of 1764, complete with measured depths; that Hood had a less accurate map of English origin; and that Benjamin Hallowell of the Swiftsure had recently captured a rough French sketch of the bay together with rudimentary sailing directions."

It would therefore appear that Troubridge had strayed out of the known safe channel.

The second is a set of three French Maps of the action which I will photograph for you and post here. If they are not clear enough, I can photocopy and send them on by post if you think they will add anything to your knowledge.
Rob.

Bligh
10-27-2016, 05:13
Then I may very well be able to make it. That would be great fun!

It will be a pleasure to host you too if you can make the trip.
Rob.

Bligh
10-27-2016, 06:48
Here are the French maps Sven.

26063

26061

26062

It was mentioned in the text that the French Fleet is actually in a different order from that given by Nelson in his dispatches.
Also the approach of the British Fleet initial formation may be of interest.
Rob.

Comte de Brueys
10-27-2016, 08:40
Great stuff Rob.

Thank you.

The literature about Napleonic war at seas is very limited in German language.

Bligh
10-27-2016, 09:24
I will look out what else I can find then Sven.
Would you like me to post on those maps or are they clear enough?
Rob.

Bligh
10-27-2016, 09:27
Thank you also for the Rep. I just saw it in my Notifications section.
Rob.

Comte de Brueys
10-27-2016, 11:22
You're welcome. The Maps are Detailed enough.

:thumbsup:

What Book those Maps are from?

Nightmoss
10-27-2016, 13:26
I kit bashed two Orient's 'on fire' and would be happy to donate one to the event next year if there's any interest? Here's the link to the old thread with some photos, etc. Just let me know.

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?3029-LED-s-Smoke-Fire-and-Explosions!!&highlight=orient+fire

Bligh
10-27-2016, 13:34
Hi Sven.
The book is called "In the hour of victory." The Royal Navy at war in the age of Nelson.by Sam Willis ISBN. number 9780857895707. RRP £25 Amazon have it for £14.95.

You can see my review of it here:- http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?3990-In-the-Hour-of-Victory

Rob.

Bligh
10-27-2016, 13:51
I kit bashed two Orient's 'on fire' and would be happy to donate one to the event next year if there's any interest? Here's the link to the old thread with some photos, etc. Just let me know.

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?3029-LED-s-Smoke-Fire-and-Explosions!!&highlight=orient+fire

Jim PM sent.
Rob.

TexaS
10-27-2016, 14:52
The last picture I posted is also French. "Combat naval d'Aboukir".

Bligh
10-27-2016, 15:05
It is certainly interesting to cross reference our French maps with the English ones Jonas.
Rob.

Diamondback
10-27-2016, 20:34
I was just thinking it's too bad the ground-scale has to be so exaggerated... it looks a lot more difficult for Foley to "thread the needle" than it was IRL.

If you ever see Walram around, you might find picking his brain worth the effort--my sculpt notes are built on a spreadsheet he asked me to check out for him while he was planning his own version.

TexaS
10-27-2016, 22:52
Foley's problem were in part speed to get out of the guns from the fort on what would later be known as Nelson island and keeping away from the shallow water that the French frigate tried to lure the British onto.

Diamondback
10-27-2016, 23:28
Here's Jonas's interim Ship Log for the Tonnants we've cleared for playtest, if it helps.

http://sailsofglory.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=13718&d=1427539966

Comte de Brueys
10-28-2016, 03:12
Link is not valid, DB. :question:


Foley's problem were in part speed to get out of the guns from the fort on what would later be known as Nelson island and keeping away from the shallow water that the French frigate tried to lure the British onto.

My book(s) gave me the informatiom that Foley decimated the small battery with a nice broadside while passing. :cannonboom:

I think he thought there were more and heavier guns (like Boney told Bruey to do). :wink:

I think I could display that with the small fort.

Bligh
10-28-2016, 04:12
When we do it at Doncaster the space need not be limited to two mats.
My sea mat is two mats wide by two and a half mats long.
Quite a few members have also several mats between them.
Rob.

Bligh
10-28-2016, 04:16
Here you go Sven. This is what you should be seeing.

26074

Rob.

Comte de Brueys
10-28-2016, 06:34
Thank you, Rob.


When we do it at Doncaster the space need not be limited to two mats.
...
Rob.

A third map would be nice (not necessary), to setup the RN ships.

Hjl
10-28-2016, 10:01
I kit bashed two Orient's 'on fire' and would be happy to donate one to the event next year if there's any interest? Here's the link to the old thread with some photos, etc. Just let me know.

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?3029-LED-s-Smoke-Fire-and-Explosions!!&highlight=orient+fire

Oh wow, that is particularly magnificent!

Nightmoss
10-28-2016, 10:22
As you all prepare for the battle you might find this link interesting? I had no idea that the 15 ton rudder, which was blown off the ship some 300 meteres, is now in France?

http://www.franckgoddio.org/projects/others/napoleon-bonapartes-fleet.html

Bligh
10-28-2016, 11:12
A very interesting article Jim.
I hope that more will be forthcoming from the expedition.
I did know that the Lightening conductor from Orient was in the National Maritime Museum at Greenwich, but nothing of the existence of the rudder.
Rob.

TexaS
10-28-2016, 11:49
Soo... How do we account for the exceptionally slow reloading of the Orient?


Two 36 pound cannons. This cannon was the largest on bord the Orient and required 15 men to operate. Preparations for each shot took 8 minutes. The massive iron cannons were termed according to the weight of the cannonballs they could handle, not the weig
:wink:

(Seventh photo on that page)

Diamondback
10-28-2016, 23:12
Here you go Sven. This is what you should be seeing.

26074

Rob.

Apologies, Sven, and thanks, Rob. :)

Bligh
10-29-2016, 03:02
You are more than welcome DB.
Rob.

Union Jack
10-29-2016, 11:17
Love it Sven I think gaming wise it's spot on. Been thinking of the running aground. How about using the width of a ruler? Any ship sailing within a width of any land takes hull damage or runs aground on a special damage or anything along those lines. Makes sailing round that tip even more of a challenge.

Neil (Can I be the French...hint...hint...pretty please?)

Bligh
10-29-2016, 15:01
:hmmm:That's the last time I share Nelson's plans with you Union Jack.:sly:
Bligh.

Bligh
11-01-2016, 06:58
However you may be interested in this:-

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?4291-Just-in&p=65479#post65479

Rob.

Bligh
11-07-2016, 14:40
Just found this interesting bit of info in my Osprey book on the Nile.

"When Nelson's squadron rounded the shoals north east of Aboukir Island several hundred French seamen were ashore- indeed no less than 4 miles from the coast gathering fresh water, which meant that the already under strength French crews were depleted still further.

To compensate for the large body of sailors operating ashore, Brueys ordered some of the Frigates to dispatch their ablest gun crews to the ships of the line. They were distributed amongst the crews of L'Orient, Tonnant, and Franklin. His vessels astern of him now stood at about full strength whilst the rest of his ships stood about 200 men short of their complements. His decision to fight a static battle was probably sound, for his understrength crews could then concentrate on gunnery without having to concern themselves with seamanship."

Rob.

TexaS
11-20-2016, 07:54
I don't know if anyone have any interest in these, but I've made them for myself and put them up here.

It's the ship cards for the British ships of the line that we don't have from Ares. I will make the French and the frigates too but it will be a while until I need them myself. I'm working on finishing the British ship of the line first. I have less finished SGN104 than SGN102.

26496

29411

26498

26499

26500

26501

26502

26503

Bligh
11-20-2016, 13:04
I'm pretty sure that a lot of us will be glad of those cards Jonas.
I know that I will use anything I can get to save hours of producing them myself.
Thanks for the kind offer. We have until September to complete this set. That is a very good start thanks.

Rob.

TexaS
11-20-2016, 14:04
I just noted that the British flag is anachronistic. During the Battle of the Nile they flew the old one without the red in the X.

On the other hand, Ares do use the French late revolutionary flag even on the elder with the white ensign.

And thank you for the reputation, Rob.

Bligh
11-20-2016, 14:50
I had to come to terms with that one a while ago Jonas, when I als realized that from the Plain white of France to the true tricolour there are five variants possible.
Also British ships in addition to the pre Union could also fly the Red white or blue ensign according as to which fleet they were assigned and the colour of the Senior Admiral of that particular Fleet.I decided to cut my losses at that point and go with the flow.
Rob.

TexaS
11-20-2016, 16:00
Yes. I have red and blue ensigns and pre and post 1803 and the Union Jack for the fore. I can switch them out but white post 1803 is probably the most usable and therefore the one I use most.

My Indefatigable is pre though. I guess I tend to think of an engagement and flag them for that.

Will probably flag these British in pre 1803 and white ensign.

Bligh
11-20-2016, 16:15
It is an interesting area indeed Jonas.
Do you know when the Admiral of the White colour became the National colour for the Royal navy, and the Red became the Mercantile Marine with the blue for the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve?
Rob.

David Manley
11-20-2016, 16:49
It is an interesting area indeed Jonas.
Do you know when the Admiral of the White colour became the National colour for the Royal navy, and the Red became the Mercantile Marine with the blue for the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve?
Rob.

White ensign was reserved for the RN in 1864. Red ensigns were used by the RN up until then for independent ships as well as "red" squadrons

TexaS
11-20-2016, 23:37
I don't have the year in my head but it was well after our era. I know some here on the forum that will know.

I think it was at Trafalgar Nelson ordered the use of the white ensign even though he was of the red.

Bligh
11-21-2016, 01:38
I don't have the year in my head but it was well after our era. I know some here on the forum that will know.

I think it was at Trafalgar Nelson ordered the use of the white ensign even though he was of the red.

You are right about Trafalgar Jonas.
He flew the white so that it would not be as easily mistaken for the Tricolor in the smoke of battle.
Rob.

Bligh
11-21-2016, 01:40
White ensign was reserved for the RN in 1864. Red ensigns were used by the RN up until then for independent ships as well as "red" squadrons

Thanks for the Date Dave.
Any idea why they decided to change?
Rob.

TexaS
11-21-2016, 13:10
White ensign was reserved for the RN in 1864. Red ensigns were used by the RN up until then for independent ships as well as "red" squadrons

Ah. I never saw this. Missed it as it was on the second page.
Thanks for the year.

Comte de Brueys
11-22-2016, 01:51
Just found this interesting bit of info in my Osprey book on the Nile.

...

To compensate for the large body of sailors operating ashore, Brueys ordered some of the Frigates to dispatch their ablest gun crews to the ships of the line. They were distributed amongst the crews of L'Orient, Tonnant, and Franklin. His vessels astern of him now stood at about full strength whilst the rest of his ships stood about 200 men short of their complements. His decision to fight a static battle was probably sound, for his understrength crews could then concentrate on gunnery without having to concern themselves with seamanship."

Rob.

Good point, Rob. :thumbsup:

That encourages me, not to reduce the firepower of the French ships (with some exceptions), but the French strengh by blocking the first crew box.

Comte de Brueys
11-22-2016, 01:52
I don't know if anyone have any interest in these, but I've made them for myself and put them up here.

It's the ship cards for the British ships of the line that we don't have from Ares. I will make the French and the frigates too but it will be a while until I need them myself. I'm working on finishing the British ship of the line first. I have less finished SGN104 than SGN102.


26497



Thank you, Jonas.

I found a typo. :wink:

Should be HMS Audacious.

Bligh
11-22-2016, 03:36
Good point, Rob. :thumbsup:

That encourages me, not to reduce the firepower of the French ships (with some exceptions), but the French strength by blocking the first crew box.


That was the thought that I was also toying with Jonas, but felt about two boxes was nearer to 200 men short if a boarding action took place on those first four ships.
Rob.

Comte de Brueys
11-22-2016, 13:50
Ok, but boarding is an optional rule. :wink:

Did you use it during the Doncaster games? :question: Crew actions are hard to handle with rookies an they are time eaters.


I know about one boarding attempt in the hot phase of the battle, but it was not successful, as far as I know.

Bligh
11-22-2016, 14:25
We never actually considered not using boarding whenever we could Sven. That does not mean you have to include it in your game. You are the boss.
Rob.

TexaS
11-23-2016, 14:55
Should be HMS Audacious.
I'll fix it, but not tonight.

Union Jack
12-28-2016, 17:45
I will miss your game at Prague Sven. A great pity as I wanted so much to play this before Doncaster. But it's looking great and any problems will be ironed out with play testing and an actual game (Prague).

Comte de Brueys
12-28-2016, 19:20
No problem, Neil.

I know how difficult it is to dance on every marriage. :surrender:

Prague is my "House Con" so this is my priority and I was very happy to met you, Rob, Steve & Paul there.

I'm glad I'll make it to Doncaster next year, but I can't promise to join Doncaster each year, too.


I hope to start a test run of Abukir in January. :minis:

Bligh
12-29-2016, 04:35
I know how you are fixed Sven, I am the same. This year my priorities have to be Poland and Holland as I keep promising Andy and Quim but nothing happens because of situations outside my control.
We cracked open your present for Christmas. Those biscuits are out of this world. Thank you so much for the kind thought.
See you at Donney.
Rob.

Hjl
12-30-2016, 19:28
You guys should do an event in Texas!

Comte de Brueys
12-31-2016, 03:39
...
We cracked open your present for Christmas. Those biscuits are out of this world. Thank you so much for the kind thought.


I'm glad you like them. :clap:


You guys should do an event in Texas!

Thank you, but there's still some work to do.:wink:

The USA saw some of the biggest SoG games in the past, as far as I can remeber.

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?3311-Glorious-First-of-June-was-a-great-success!

Union Jack
12-31-2016, 14:59
We really should try to do at least 1 biggy in the UK.

What's left?

Copenhagen

Trafalgar

I'm sure there are more.

Bligh
12-31-2016, 15:09
If we had the Dutch we could do Camperdown.
There is the Saints.
Rob.

TexaS
01-16-2017, 13:22
I will hold the Nile at GothCon at Easter. I'm working on the ships. Not much left now. Three ships per side and nearly all ships cards and flags.

27356

I noted that I have put both HMS Leopard and HMS Leander in the picture, but I will only use one of them.

Hjl
01-16-2017, 13:52
Good lord that's a large fleet!

Bligh
01-16-2017, 14:15
That is looking very good Jonas, and no one can blame you if Ares goes bust. That one fleet is equal to half the total ships I own French Spanish and English.:happy:
Rob.

TexaS
01-16-2017, 17:27
Well... I have some more ships... After a quick count there's 56 ships more.

But it's only the ships on the mat that will be in the Battle of the Nile.

Bligh
01-17-2017, 02:40
Sixteen more than I have and two of those have been used as wrecks.
Could this be the start of an arms race? :minis::moneygone::help:


Rob.:wink:

Comte de Brueys
01-17-2017, 07:55
Impressive fleet, Jonas. :shock:

I think you time frame is a little bit larger?

TexaS
01-17-2017, 08:17
Probably 6 hours with an hour each for setting up and taking down.

TexaS
01-17-2017, 10:36
Sixteen more than I have and two of those have been used as wrecks.
Could this be the start of an arms race? :minis::moneygone::help:

I had an idea of not exceed 100 ships but at 96 and a wreck now I will have a hard time managing that after the next wave of ship. I will not buy any more ship until wave four so you will have a fixed number to aim for. (Unless something remarkable happens as perhaps I would discover how much Artésien looks like a Swedish 62-64 gun ship with a simple remodeling... It doesn't.)

Comte de Brueys
01-23-2017, 06:10
What captain abilities would you give to Nelson and the HMS Vanguard's crew? :question:

Any RN Captains that should get a bonus, too?

Bligh
01-23-2017, 11:16
I would think that Nelson should have at least Fast Thinking and Skilled Tactician. The crew Well trained Gunners.
For other Captains, Foley in the Goliath should get Deft Captain.
Rob.

Diamondback
01-24-2017, 04:33
That's another question: Since we don't have "ace scores" like Wings to use for leveling, how do we decide how many abilities each commander should pull for himself and his crew, and at what points abilities are gained and lost? (For example, I don't see Pellew, Viscount Exmouth diving over the side for the rescue quite as readily as Pellew, Frigate Captain.)

Bligh
01-24-2017, 09:00
That's another question: Since we don't have "ace scores" like Wings to use for leveling, how do we decide how many abilities each commander should pull for himself and his crew, and at what points abilities are gained and lost? (For example, I don't see Pellew, Viscount Exmouth diving over the side for the rescue quite as readily as Pellew, Frigate Captain.)

Don't you believe it DB.
Rob.

Diamondback
01-25-2017, 00:29
Rob, I'm not saying it'd be on character, just 1. it's more difficult to do it from the quarterdeck of a three-decker, 2. most of us gain bloat and lose maneuverability and speed as we age and 3. as an Admiral his position may have constrained him much more than when he was a mere Captain. The instinct was probably still there, just that he may not have been ALLOWED to exercise it... still the kind of leader I wouldn't mind fighting under.

Bligh
01-25-2017, 02:47
When I get time, i will have a look for a quote from my book on his life story for you DB. I may well come out with egg on my face because getting older effects my memory as well as physical abilities, but I have an idea that he did something pretty stupid late on in life. I know he could still get up to the mast head faster than most seamen.
Rob.

TexaS
01-25-2017, 12:11
Are you suggesting that the good Admiral have bloa... have put on... have become greater?

27776

27771

Bligh
01-25-2017, 13:31
It might be said that poor incompetent Admirals become more Portly.
:drinks: A portly Admiral.




Active Admirals retain their agility.:help: An agile Admiral.

Bligh.

Comte de Brueys
01-26-2017, 02:24
I would think that Nelson should have at least Fast Thinking and Skilled Tactician. The crew Well trained Gunners.

For other Captains, Foley in the Goliath should get Deft Captain.
Rob.


Skilled tactitian for Nelson sounds good to me.

Fast thinking is difficult because the scenario will be without crew actions, only set sails... :question: Maybe I keep it.

I think charismatic captain is good, too. Can be the tip on the scale if the HMS Vanguard collects too many crew hits.



For the crew, well-trained gunners was my idea, too. Will the HMS Vanguard be overowered if I extra add good aim?



What's deft captain? Is this a skill from the USS Constitution special pack ? (still unboxed here)

Bligh
01-26-2017, 05:03
Not sure about where Deft Captain originated Sven.
It is in our rules for the Solo Campaign.

It is "After all ships have moved the Captain can rotate his/her ship. Keep any one corner of the ship fixed, and the opposite corner can rotate by up to the width of the ruler. May be used twice per game."

Rob.

Capn Duff
01-26-2017, 18:00
It might be said that poor incompetent Admirals become more Portly.
:drinks: A portly Admiral.



Active Admirals retain their agility.:help: An agile Admiral.

Bligh.

Did I hear Port mentioned?

Union Jack
01-26-2017, 18:13
We've been usnig 10 points for an ability in the Solo Campaigns. These points are derived from beating enemy ships, capturing enemy ships and winning a scenario. Mostly dependent on whatever system the person writing the mission/scenario includes in their victory point summations.

Neil


That's another question: Since we don't have "ace scores" like Wings to use for leveling, how do we decide how many abilities each commander should pull for himself and his crew, and at what points abilities are gained and lost? (For example, I don't see Pellew, Viscount Exmouth diving over the side for the rescue quite as readily as Pellew, Frigate Captain.)

Diamondback
01-26-2017, 19:46
Neil, good for campaigns, but I was thinking statting historical officers. Granted, here again it's not like WWI where we have collected detailed records to trace comparative careers, and just the Napoleonic era is a huge pool of subjects whose careers would need examination...

Bligh
01-27-2017, 03:14
Did I hear Port mentioned?

You certainly did Stanley.
Rob.:drinks:

Comte de Brueys
01-31-2017, 11:47
I played a testgame today and have good & bad news.

Good news is that the RN is able to win this if the captains make no major navigation mistakes...

...the bad one is that it's not possible to bring 8 RN ships and 8 gamers on two gaming mats with a 2 hour mission. So I have to limit the sceanrio to 6 players and 1 host. :hmmm:

AAR will follow the next days.:salute:

Bligh
01-31-2017, 12:15
That is a great shame Sven. Is it a lack of mat size problem or a move distance vs time one?
Rob.

Union Jack
02-01-2017, 04:33
If, when we check, we are able to run 3 tables on the Saturday at Doncaaster Sven we have allocated 3 hours for Abukir. If not and it remains scheduled for Sunday it will be 2.5 hours.

Bligh
02-01-2017, 06:26
Great Neil.
I hope that makes life easier for Sven.
Rob.

TexaS
04-09-2017, 07:21
And now I will post the French 74 gun ships' cards.

29413

29414

29415

29416

29417

29418

29419

TexaS
04-09-2017, 07:28
Here's the 80 gun ships.

29420

29421

29422

TexaS
04-09-2017, 07:30
And finally the smaller ships:

29423

29424

29425

29426

...and the little...

29427

Bligh
04-09-2017, 08:37
Well done Jonas, and thanks.
That has saved anyone wanting to do the Nile, including myself, a lot of messing around with the cards.
Well worth a bit of Rep.
Rob.

TexaS
04-09-2017, 10:03
And quite sneakily I updated the old post with HMS Audacious too...

Comte de Brueys
05-10-2017, 08:34
With a little bit of luck I can place two new 80 gun ships as Franklin and Tonnant beside the Orient. :thumbsup:

Comte de Brueys
08-17-2017, 13:05
Rob, Chris - this is what I modest ask to organize for the Doncaster Abukir event.

7 x 3rd rate SoLs of the RN (HMS Vaguard, HMS Goliath, HMS Zealous, etc...)
1 x 4th rate of the RN HMS Leander

2 x Belona class 3rd rate of the French Navy if possible (or two Temeraires)
5 x Temeraire class 3rd rate Sols of the French Navy
1 x 1st rate of the French Navy, the Orient

For the French ships, only the miniatures, are needed - no game boards or movement decks

Some gunpowder smoke tokens

3 x gaming mats (or a blue surface in that size), a double set of damage tokens, rulers, etc...

Rob is so friendly to care for the standart terrain tiles.


I care for the charts to manage the French line, little name signs for the ships, a special half and quarter damage ruler, a Frech admiral's hat, a tricolore banderole and a toilet brush.

Thanks in advance!


Sven

Bligh
08-17-2017, 13:35
I will sort this out with Chris and Simon when I see them on Saturday Sven.

Rob.

Capn Duff
08-17-2017, 16:56
I can supply all, rigged and ready for action, except HMS Leander, but I do have HMS Leopard instead.
Plus can supply smoke markers, Admirals hat and a bottle of Port :happy::drinks:

Bligh
08-18-2017, 01:48
Thanks Chris.
That will leave me more room for other essentials.:wink:
Rob.

Comte de Brueys
08-18-2017, 02:13
Thank you both. :salute:

Capn Duff
08-18-2017, 02:50
Ill post the names ships later today but I do have Orient, Timoleon, Genereux for the French and HmS Bellerophon for the Brits plus a few more named vessels for Aboukir

Bligh
08-18-2017, 03:03
I have Leander if we want to be pedantic about the actual model Chris, otherwise do you just want its card?
Rob.

Comte de Brueys
08-18-2017, 03:38
The ship's names do not need to fit 100%. I have those little signs to identify them on the table and the gameboards.

http://sailsofglory.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=29734&d=1493452808

Bligh
08-18-2017, 04:15
Bien fait mon brave capitan de Brueys.

Bligh.

Killick
08-18-2017, 05:12
Comming late into the thread there are a few points I would make (Sorry if they have been made before)
1/ Forget about the Island gun battery in the battle it did next to nothing.
2/ In the "TimeLife" book The fighting Sail it does state that French inland gun ports were blocked up with all sorts of stuff. The other major point I would make is that on the French Orient the crew had been painting her that afternoon so there were still bucket of paint on deck making her more vunrable to fire.

Capn Duff
08-18-2017, 07:32
Ok i have enough ships to fillout both fleets

Names wise I have the following although Hms Orion and Leander have not yet been rigged, been in a trough with the ships as been painting my 7year war armies, hoping this weekend will fire me up again

Anyway the named ships I have

HMS Goliath
HMS Zealous
HMS Orion
HMS Audacious
HMS Defence
HMS Bellerophon
HMS Leander


Aquilon
Orient
Généreux
Timoléon

I also have Le Berwick and Le Swiftsure so that fills the two Bellona class requested
Pity the new ships are not out as I intend getting Tonnant and William Tell for my French

Comte de Brueys
08-19-2017, 06:11
Perfect, Chris. :thumbsup:


...
1/ Forget about the Island gun battery in the battle it did next to nothing.
2/ In the "TimeLife" book The fighting Sail it does state that French inland gun ports were blocked up with all sorts of stuff. The other major point I would make is that on the French Orient the crew had been painting her that afternoon so there were still bucket of paint on deck making her more vunrable to fire.

It's a weak battery, if you sail normal, you do not get in range, otherwise a broadside or two will silence it.

Only the first two French ships have problems with their landward gunports.

Special damage is ignored, except for the Orient - have a look at the first posts. :wink:

Bligh
08-19-2017, 06:19
Tout est bon mon Capitain.
Bligh.

Comte de Brueys
08-29-2017, 20:06
Sirs, seems that I need a French Hermione frigate, too.

Want to run a little test in the the game... :wink:



I'm ready with the charts, so the whole French line is run by 2 pieces of paper, one with the ship's stats and one with a firing log.

Capn Duff
08-30-2017, 02:10
Got a Hermione so not a problem Sven

Bligh
08-30-2017, 03:08
A few questions from the Admiralty Board Sven.
1. Re the Sailing rules :-

Are we allowed to shorten and increase sails as per the rule book?
Is there likely to be any variation in wind direction?
Is it allowed to place a spring on the cable if ships are at anchor, and if so how do you account for ships swinging on such?

2. What spacing are you using between each ship in the French Line.

Thanking you in anticipation.
Rob.

Comte de Brueys
08-31-2017, 01:15
1) For sailing there's an easy rule.

Before you move, simply anounce if you increase or decrease your sails (step by step of course). No need to plan an action for this.

The wind will not change. You'll sail into the bay with steady good wind conditions.

I have no problems with special maneuvers of anchored ships. You only have to keep the victory conditions and time in your mind. :wink:

2) There's not enough space to sail between French ships.

http://sailsofglory.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=29737&d=1493452808

Shure, if you sail perfect, you can make it, but if you collide with a French ship, you're trapped. And I don't know, if it's a good idea to sail between two Temeraire class ships in such a distance.

Important: The French ships will not move and if one is destroyed, unlike the RN ships, the base will stay on the gameboard and block movement.


The major task is: How to sail down the French line? 8 RN ships with double shots and first broadsides deal out a lot of damage, but you need a plan and good maneuvering to win this. You know what the French line does: Fire and reload as long as possible at the nearest target.

Bligh
08-31-2017, 03:00
Thanks Sven.
That is very clear.
See you on the 15th.
Rob.