Directing Research, Part 2: Pick Your Battles

[Diamondback]

Spinning off from http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?4213-Your-Chance-to-Direct-Development-Research

Right now, we have ships in the Sails line that can fit into everything from the 1740s (Thomas Slade's family of Common 74's are derived from one of the first French 74's, 1744 L'Invincible and the Ardent-class 64 sculpt from Wave 4 was a direct clone of the 1747 French Lis trio of 64's) up to the Second Barbary War of 1815-16 and possibly actions up to about 1818.

Here's where you guys need to weigh in, as I am more of a "technician" brought in to read the blueprints and break down the Orders of Battle and work the mechanical/technical questions rather than a Sailing Era naval-historian. (Professionally my area of focus is divided between WWII at sea and the Southwest Pacific theater.) I need you to define the most important battles of that timeframe--each of you pick one battle that you deem the most historically significant and make your best argument for why it should be first in line after my existing Target List.

After that's done, as I find draughts of the ships involved and rescale them for comparison to the existing sculpts, I'll need you guys to compare them and give up-or-down votes on each as a proposed "Extension Candidate."

The existing queue, so don't even bother mentioning any of these:
--1805 Trafalgar Campaign (Cape Finisterre, Frigate Action of 10 Aug 1805, Trafalgar, Cape Ortegal)
--Nile
--3rd Ushant
--AWI Indian Ocean Campaign
--Linois's Indian Ocean expedition (Pulo Aura, Vizagapatam, intersects into 1806 Atlantic Campaign)
--1806 Atlantic Campaign (San Domingo, Linois's Capture)
--1809-1811 Mauritius Campaign (Saint-Paul, Ile Bonaparte, Grand Port, Ile de France, Tamatave, several smaller actions)
There's a reason for my keying on those particular campaigns: limited resources and reinforcements allow the closest historical match to a typical "game campaign" with the same groups of ships facing off repeatedly. Admittedly, some of these selections are because I already have some work done on them...

IN PROGRESS
--1805 Trafalgar campaign: http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?4220-Sculpt-Status-Trafalgar-Campaign&p=64164#post64164

DONE
(will list and link discussions as they're finished)

Start weighing in, guys! :)

[TexaS]

My big question is how limited we are.

My first wish would be Battle of Viborg Bay 1790 but we currently have no ships for it.

Perhaps a little more realistic could be Kamperduin or Battle of Camperdown 1797. Then it's "only" Dutch that would be the new nation.

[Cpt Kangaroo]

I am looking at this from the marketing and popularity aspect. I think the Battle of the Chesapeake would be one to be included. The appeal in the American markets would maybe boost sales.

I would love to see the Dutch brought in, by this may be too soon as Spanish has only just been introduced.

[Hjl]

Perhaps some of the battles of the USS Wasp in the war of 1812. We don't currently have any historical sloop actions do we?

[Bligh]

I would have to say St Vincent, Cap San Vincente because it was not only one of the defining moments in the story of Nelson, but also the point at which Sir John Jervis became Earl St Vincent and thus went on to have supreme influence in the Royal Navy and its doings.
Rob.

[scourge]

How about the Battle of Lissa?

[Naharaht]

Is the Battle of the Saintes (a.k.a. Battle of Domininca) 9th-12 April 1782 suitable? It was the first one where the British copper sheathing gave them a distinct advantage in speed?

[Bligh]

Well worth throwing into the ring Dave.
That would have been my second choice.
Rob.

[TexaS]

I'm thinking of the amount of new ships.

Cape St Vincent would just about give us an old Spanish 68-70 gun ship of the line and all others would just be reflags.

Kamperduin would give us a whole new line up of Dutch ships.

Otherwise I agree on the importance of the battles.

I think I need to have a clearly defined question with a well defined purpose before I can give any good answers.

[Diamondback]

Good point, Jonas, and discussion of those points might be helpful in shaping the larger discussion. As an American, Home Team Bias might cause me to bias toward the original six frigates' war, but next to Saintes, Glorious First of June or Trafalgar they add up to a tempest in a teapot. Gave Jack Tar a bloody nose, but not much change from status quo ante bellum--which considering that the opposition was a Royal Navy fresh from driving Bonaparte from the seas might not be so bad.

Perhaps we need to split things into three categories for single ship, squadron/flotilla and full-scale fleet actions--but defining criteria is an important first step, and a question I thank you for raising.

[Diamondback]

Just a note, I've also run this by Rob at Ares when I poked him about a Wave 3 update earlier. We'll see what the response is... my gut says it'll probably be "start with retracing Nelson's career."

[Bligh]

I guess that would rule out the Dutch and Americans then DB.:sad:
On the up side Nelson is probably the easiest research we could have.:wink:
Rob.

[Diamondback]

Not necessarily, Rob... given their all-over-the-map ship development, since we *know* they've mentioned wanting to do more War of 1812 they might try to work several "secondary themes." Nice thing about BHR being in for Wave 4 is it gives us a toehold for AWI, as do the Wave 3 Artesiens... and as for the Dutch, is my memory completely shot or wasn't Nelson at Camperdown too?

That's how you do things working your pet cause into this game... first you get a toehold, say BHR. Then BHR needs an opponent, which means someday we need Serapis and sisters. Then they need things to protect from our intrepid raiders, which means Merchies if we can ever find sufficient reference material. And oh by the way, because we can't do a sculpt for just one ship, BHR brings several related French medium Indiamen along for the ride with her... kind of an indirect approach, akin to the self-described "illogical logic" of archenemies Jason Bourne and Carlos the Jackal in Robert Ludlum's novels (before that bum-sucking arse-clown Eric von Lustbader royally buggered up the IP).

[Diamondback]

BTW, Rob, sent you an email about something where I could use a second opinion checking my work.

[Bligh]

You may well be right about Nelson at Camperdown DB. My memory is most likely more shot than yours.
I can't recall reading anything about his being there.
Rob.

[Bligh]

Just come across this DB.

Nelson returned to Bath with Fanny, before moving to London in October to seek expert medical attention concerning his amputated arm. Whilst in London news reached him that Admiral Duncan had defeated the Dutch fleet at the Battle of Camperdown. Nelson exclaimed that he would have given his other arm to have been present.

Rob.

[Diamondback]

Then again, we have already stipulated that this is *not* my area of even semi-expertise, right? lol :)

Either way, don't count the Dutch out--as a general guideline, if Wave 3's an indicator we can expect a "full launch" (two sculpts in one set) of a new nation every 2-3 sets. So my bet is either the Dutch or a real USN launch (probably a mainline Humphreys 44 and a Peacock-group, since those seem to be the only even relatively "mass produced" American designs) in Wave 5 or 6, the other in Wave 7 to 9. And I expect the Russians to make a backdoor appearance via reprints like Spain at some point, between one of their larger 74 classes being a straight clone from Bellona's Large 74 relatives plus one captured Turkish and one outright-their-own copies of the Tonnant design, both of the Tsar's Tonnants ironically built by the same guy who flipped sides.

[Bligh]

I will be happy with the Dutch myself.
As for expertise. I had to look up that Nelson quote to be sure.:happy:
Rob.

[Diamondback]

For The Record: that previous statement is nothing official, it's just a gut guess based on current trends.