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Dobbs
05-14-2016, 20:27
Has anybody considered how to incorporate flying false flags into SoG? It could lead to interesting opening shots, and potential diplomatic conundrums ("oh, you really are Dutch!").

Hjl
05-14-2016, 22:02
I've always disliked that aspect of naval combat. I'm not sure how frequent it was in real life but it seems extremely ungentlemanly and maybe even against the rules of war.

That being said, I'm sure it was done and would be interested in seeing people's diy rules for it!

TexaS
05-15-2016, 01:15
Look at the Captain's abilities thread. I suggested a rule for that.

Hugh: It was surely done. By some often.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Cochrane,_10th_Earl_of_Dundonald

Hyperfocal
05-15-2016, 01:25
Basing my knowledge on this topic solely on what I have read in the Parrick Obrien novels I would suggest I t could only be used once per game much like grog, and for obvious reasons only at the opening meeting and only by one player.

When ships are within one and a half ruler distance either player may play the action, if both players choose to play this move, a roll of the dice decides who can use the action.

The player using this action rolls the dice to see if they have successfully fooled the enemy, if successful the enemy can only use the red 5 movement card until the other players ship has sailed to within the C/D ruler distance at which point it's on for young and old.

Additionly if you really want to make things interesting the attacking player would be free to reload with whatever they choose prior to coming within range.

Capn Duff
05-15-2016, 02:33
I used the false flag in my aar recently for the solo campaign.
I used a system of a set point give the opposition the chance to recognise the ruse.
For me it was turn 1 a d6 used needing a 6, turn two a 5 or 6, turn three a 4,5 or6 etc
Automaticall detected if you fire.

http://sailsofglory.org/showthread.php?4033-AAR-April-Letters-of-Marque

TexaS
05-15-2016, 02:42
David:
Much of what Patrick O'Brian wrote was based on historical events by among others Thomas Cochrane.

I think that is an interesting mechanic but way to powerful to use in games.

Hyperfocal
05-15-2016, 05:27
David:
Much of what Patrick O'Brian wrote was based on historical events by among others Thomas Cochrane.

I think that is an interesting mechanic but way to powerful to use in games.

I tend to over complicate things :question:

David Manley
05-15-2016, 05:50
It was done, it was accepted practice and it was not against the rules of war and honour as ongoing as one's correct colours were raised before firing

Banana_Joe
05-15-2016, 12:25
I would just use the existing game mechaniccs and forbid to fire until the enemy ship is in ruler distance. From to ruler distances I would draw an "E" counter every round. If its a zero you fall for the trick, if its a crew-symbol you realise its the enemy and can shoot the next round because you have to run out the guns, etc
I guess its something that would offer a nice scenario.

Kentop
05-15-2016, 13:06
You see the trick used in a lot of pirate movies. Pirates would fly a flag to get close to a merchant ship and merchants would would fly a flag that was from neutral countries. Navies wouldn't do it. They made sure their ships stood out and were easily identified as warships from a given nation.

Bligh
05-15-2016, 13:53
I have no compunction about using it when the scenario allows. It is especially effective when sailing in an enemy capture.
You would probably not fool anyone for long flying a French flag if in a British built ship for instance.
Rob.

MWBell
09-02-2016, 08:51
I would just use the existing game mechaniccs and forbid to fire until the enemy ship is in ruler distance. From to ruler distances I would draw an "E" counter every round. If its a zero you fall for the trick, if its a crew-symbol you realise its the enemy and can shoot the next round because you have to run out the guns, etc
I guess its something that would offer a nice scenario.

I really LIKE this solution. It's simple and direct. The previously mentioned die roll with its modifier is also very good and may be particularly appropriate for some scenarios, but for general use this keeps it just a little riskier.

To add a little MORE risk, what if the "drawing" player does not reveal his chits, but keeps them face-down on his ship's log, placing them beside each other from left to right, in an effort to lure his "friend" closer. Once he has smoke his opponent (i.e., 2nd round later), he may fire whenever he chooses. He can then prove his knowledge by revealing his chits. A game of cat and mouse...but who's actually the cat?

MWBell
09-02-2016, 08:54
I really LIKE this solution. It's simple and direct. The previously mentioned die roll with its modifier is also very good and may be particularly appropriate for some scenarios, but for general use this keeps it just a little riskier.

To add a little MORE risk, what if the "drawing" player does not reveal his chits, but keeps them face-down on his ship's log, placing them beside each other from left to right, in an effort to lure his "friend" closer. Once he has smoke his opponent (i.e., 2nd round later), he may fire whenever he chooses. He can then prove his knowledge by revealing his chits. A game of cat and mouse...but who's actually the cat?

Duh ... I meant "smoked"... sorry! (I wonder if Aubrey ever misspelled anything.)

Bligh
09-02-2016, 09:32
Duh ... I meant "smoked"... sorry! (I wonder if Aubrey ever misspelled anything.)

No smoke without fire Mike.:wink:

I'm sure that even some of the best Captains have made such mistakes after a hard day in battle.:dazed:

Rob.

Diamondback
09-02-2016, 16:52
Flying no colors is one thing... False Colors, I win the battle I throw you to the sharks. That could just be my personal rules to live by: I'll gladly obfuscate, misimply and misdirect all day long, so long as I stop short of an outright lie. If one expects to be treated honorably, one must conduct themselves honorably... otherwise we're back to the Law of the Jungle.

Bligh
09-03-2016, 03:40
It was done, it was accepted practice and it was not against the rules of war and honour as ongoing as one's correct colours were raised before firing

I am afraid that Dave is quite correct in this.
The ruse de guere was an accepted ploy and not looked down upon used by most maritime nations. Strange when any captured Officer who had given his parole not to escape and then did so was frequently returned by the Admiralty to the country where he had broken his parole. His escutcheon besmirched forever.



disguising a warship (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warship) to appear to be a neutral merchant vessel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_vessel), or a merchant vessel on your opponent's side, has traditionally been considered a legitimate ruse de guerre, provided the belligerent raises their own flag to break the deception, prior to firing their guns. This was called sailing under false colors (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_colors). Both sides during the world wars used this tactic, most famously the Royal Navy's Q ships (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_ship). The German raider Kormoran (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_auxiliary_cruiser_Kormoran) used this tactic against the superior HMAS Sydney (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_Sydney_(D48)), disguising herself as the Dutch merchant vessel Straat Malakka prior to their mutually destructive engagement (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_between_HMAS_Sydney_and_German_auxiliary_cruiser_Kormoran).
disguising a warship to appear to be one of your opponent's warships has traditionally been considered to be a legitimate ruse de guerre, provided the belligerent raises their own flag to drop the disguise, prior to firing their guns. The Germans took steps to disguise their pocket battleships (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschland_class_cruiser) as Allied (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allies_of_World_War_II) cruisers during World War II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II). This tactic was also used by the Royal Navy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Navy) to great effect during the Napoleonic Wars (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleonic_Wars), since the boarding and capture of enemy vessels was quite common during that time, and information about the current ownership of vessels was not easy to disseminate rapidly.


Rob.